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ParniValjak
All-Star
Nothing really to discuss. The Kings would be dumb if they traded Tyreke this early in his career. There would be no excuse what so ever. It would just be plain dumb. End of discussion.
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Padrino
All-Star
while i REALLY appreciate the sentiment of this thread, i find that it will do nothing to win over those who are intent on characterizing tyreke evans as a black hole who will not improve the aspects of his game necessary to get to an elite level. you'll notice a trend amongst the anti-reke contingent. it usually goes something like this: "tyreke evans IS NOT ______" and tyreke evans CANNOT ______" and "tyreke evans WILL NOT _____." these posters at kingsfans.com clearly have the crystal ball when it comes to tyreke's development as a professional basketball player. they have some sort of divine insight that the rest of us lack, some sort of burning bush that speaks to them in ways we cannot comprehend, and they will march down from the top of that mountain with ten commandments echoing what they've believed since day one: the kings should "let tyreke evans go." its just a shame that the kings' management and coaching staff seem determined to join the mindless rabble...
that said, these stats are illuminating to those of us who understand that a player of tyreke's potential, when utilized correctly, can very easily become an elite player in this league with just a little mentoring and coaching. its a novel idea, isn't it? a 23-year old guard who possesses enormous physical upside and a coveted, unique skill set requires some additional massaging to his game? it'd be nice to have a coaching staff willing to meet tyreke's talents in the middle, because not all of the greatest players in the nba were birthed into the league as such. most of them needed to find their feet from beneath the discipline of a quality coaching staff and the right mentoring. and notice that i do not make the claim that he WILL become an all star some day. i do not find myself on the polar opposite of certainty that anti-reke posters manage to purport with all the grace of an unprepared high school debate team. but i do believe in his talent, and i'm not asinine enough to write it off or to find it wise to trade it away...
anyway, at this time, i'd like to direct kingsfans.com to this article by sam amick, about spurs' guard tony parker, who has recently had one of the finest seasons of his nba career: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/04/19/tony.parker.spurs/index.html...
don't you think gregg popovich, spurs management, and spurs fans are glad to not have given up on tony parker after several frustrating seasons early in his career? i certainly do...
that said, these stats are illuminating to those of us who understand that a player of tyreke's potential, when utilized correctly, can very easily become an elite player in this league with just a little mentoring and coaching. its a novel idea, isn't it? a 23-year old guard who possesses enormous physical upside and a coveted, unique skill set requires some additional massaging to his game? it'd be nice to have a coaching staff willing to meet tyreke's talents in the middle, because not all of the greatest players in the nba were birthed into the league as such. most of them needed to find their feet from beneath the discipline of a quality coaching staff and the right mentoring. and notice that i do not make the claim that he WILL become an all star some day. i do not find myself on the polar opposite of certainty that anti-reke posters manage to purport with all the grace of an unprepared high school debate team. but i do believe in his talent, and i'm not asinine enough to write it off or to find it wise to trade it away...
anyway, at this time, i'd like to direct kingsfans.com to this article by sam amick, about spurs' guard tony parker, who has recently had one of the finest seasons of his nba career: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/04/19/tony.parker.spurs/index.html...
don't you think gregg popovich, spurs management, and spurs fans are glad to not have given up on tony parker after several frustrating seasons early in his career? i certainly do...
VF21 heartily approves of this post, with emphasis on the bolded portion.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
Smart is a hypocrite
http://blogs.sacbee.com/sports/king...#mi_rss=Kings Blog and Q&A#storylink=misearch
"He can't play the three," Smart said after Sunday's practice. "That guy was born with a basketball in his hand- got to keep that thing in his hand. I've tried that one time and that doesn't work so I'm not going to go back to that one because he's not a small forward."
i have doubts about his coaching abilities. he doesn't maximize the guys strengths. eg, having the team set picks for jimmer.
i'm really sick of seeing small ball and the lack of a game plan. option A) cousins in the low post option B) P&R with guard C) etc.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
not if the magoofs have any say in it. they were busy promoting IT for ROY.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Well, he's been completely misused, not put in a position to play to his strengths, mysteriously even though his FG% has shot up, his mins went down, his FT% is a career high yet gets a career low in FTA's, and lends to the ongoing presumption that Smart, and our FO, have no clue how to develop young talent, nor put them in a position to succeed. For all intent and purpose, Reke became our 4th option most nights, going by touches, FGA's and minutes played. He almost became an after thought, well, until his agent came to town and probably ripped Petrie a new one.
The argument of he hasn't imrpoved his jumper(which he has the last month+) is separate from the stance that because he hasn't improved his jumper, he should therefor go stand in the corner and get his minutes slashed. It's not even how he's used when on the court, which clearly is a problem, but also that a guy with that level of efficiency and one of our top two players, many nights couldn't even get on the court for 30 mins. And that doesn't even touch on the defense as a whole, and the need for our top perimeter defender to be out there.
I'd love to see some accountability from this organization. Will be looking forward to hearing what Petrie has to say whenever it is he comes out of hiding.
The argument of he hasn't imrpoved his jumper(which he has the last month+) is separate from the stance that because he hasn't improved his jumper, he should therefor go stand in the corner and get his minutes slashed. It's not even how he's used when on the court, which clearly is a problem, but also that a guy with that level of efficiency and one of our top two players, many nights couldn't even get on the court for 30 mins. And that doesn't even touch on the defense as a whole, and the need for our top perimeter defender to be out there.
I'd love to see some accountability from this organization. Will be looking forward to hearing what Petrie has to say whenever it is he comes out of hiding.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
would love to get a real coach with a system and understands how to maximize his players *cough* adelman, popavich..
we've gone through a lame duck coaching carousel for wayyy too damn long. how many more scrub coaches that will work for peanuts before we get a real one?
we've gone through a lame duck coaching carousel for wayyy too damn long. how many more scrub coaches that will work for peanuts before we get a real one?
J
jdbraver
Guest
If you take layups out and focus on jumpshots what would his % be? That would be telling for me.
DesertFox
Starter
What concerns me with Evans is his drop in FTA in relation to FGA, which shows how important it is for him to have the ball in his hands.
15.5 points on 13.4 FGA is not terribly impressive for a scoring guard, and while that is largely a reflection of how he was used, he deserves part of the blame for still shooting 20% on 3's.
15.5 points on 13.4 FGA is not terribly impressive for a scoring guard, and while that is largely a reflection of how he was used, he deserves part of the blame for still shooting 20% on 3's.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Indeed, because as is well known the NBA has a no layups rule, for which they will give you a technical foul on a second offense.
I do not understand all the focus on jumpshots. Yes, it's nice to have a player with a full range of shots at his disposal, and adding a mid-range jumper to his repertoire would make Evans close to impossible to stop, but to put him on the trade block solely because of an inability to consistently hit from midrange is delusional. To me, it's about as logical as calling for Shaq to be traded because he had trouble hitting the freebies his entire career.
NO PLAYER IS PERFECT! The talents that Evans have far exceed the lack of a jumper, although I have to point out he seemed to be hitting more of them during the last few games.
NO PLAYER IS PERFECT! The talents that Evans have far exceed the lack of a jumper, although I have to point out he seemed to be hitting more of them during the last few games.
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Kings Faithful
Starter
Without a jumpshot, any team with a semblance of a game plan can completely phase Tyreke out of the game. If he is going to be our main offensive threat and the guy who has the ball 95% of the time he has to develop some sort of game outside of driving the ball. He's shown off the ball improvement and a bit of hope for his jumpshot towards the season so giving up on him wouldn't be smart at this point because if he does take advantage of his potential the reward will be amazing. That doesn't mean I'm 100% confident he's going to do that though.
J
jdbraver
Guest
I'm not on the trade him bandwagon. He's a solid player in the league. The question I have is how much money will he want after next season. If he wants superstar $ he needs a jumper.
No, the question is how much money the Maloofs have in their piggy bank. Maybe they ask the city to pay part of team salary?
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Still doesn't change the fact that Tyreke is the biggest bust in the history of pro sports. We should have drafted Flynn.
Padrino
All-Star
everyone who asks this question does so without first asking themselves what the hell it even means to be a point guard in the modern nba. steve nash is nearly retired. who does that leave amongst the "pure" set? rajon rondo is probably a good example. as is ricky rubio. but what other kinds of nba point guards exist out there on winning squads? well, for starters, derek fisher was a placeholder as a starting PG on several lakers championship teams. mario chalmers and norris cole have served a similar function for miami, who is poised for a title run now that derrick rose will miss the remainder of the playoffs. as for rose, he's a scoring PG through and through. he's an excellent distributor, as well, but you can't evaluate him as "an nba point guard" in the same way you would evaluate, say, former great john stockton. chris paul could be described in a similar fashion. same with tony parker. then there's russell westbrook, another starting nba point guard on a title contending squad who's first impulse is to score long before he looks to pass. like tyreke, his court vision is improving, but how important is it to the thunder that russell westbrook be classified as some sort of prototypical nba point guard? i'd hazard to guess that they don't care at all. he's got talent, and OKC knows how to utilize it. point is, so many are living in a fantasy world when it comes to this notion of the point guard position in the modern nba, as if the game were still played the same way it was fifty years ago. the pure point guard is absolute myth in 2012. the scoring guard is much more common than either the "pure" point guard or the "shooting" guard, and roleplayers tend to make up the difference on teams that win titles in the modern nba...
now, i don't give a rat's *** if tyreke starts as a PG or as a SG, as long as the player he shares the backcourt with can share passing and ballhandling duties. what does it matter as long as the kings pair him with complementary talent?! seriously, i cannot for the life of me understand this obsession with tyreke's ability to be a "true point guard" or not. every player has weaknesses. you surround the most valued skill sets of your most valued players with complementary skill sets. its not that hard. more to the point, a dominant guard is a dominant guard, and tyreke has the physical gifts to dominate at either guard position. that is versatility. now, for the jump shooting harpies out there, dwayne wade has shot 29% from three his entire career, and shot 27% from three this season. this is the heat's starting "shooting" guard, for the record. and this is a team that's got championship potential. again, do you think the heat are hung up on the fact that dwayne wade doesn't consistently fulfill the "shooting" aspect of his position? no. why would they? they're too busy competing for titles. tyreke certainly needs to improve his jumpshot. it needs to go in more often than it does, but truthfully, it doesn't even need to become dependable for him to achieve all star status. it needs to do so if he wants to get into that top tier of talent, because even dwayne wade can put in the mid range jumper from time to time. but its more of a nuisance than it is any kind of major hindrance. really, you all need to wake up to nba reality. once again, look at the teams competing for titles: thunder (russell westbrook), spurs (tony parker), heat (dwayne wade), bulls (pre-rose injury), lakers (kobe bryant), and hell, let's even throw the mavericks in there (jason terry). they've all got dominant scoring guards who defy the "purity" of their respective positions. of course, the heat have the benefit of lebron james, the best individual talent in the league, and defiant of any puritanical descriptor you could attempt to apply to his game, so they're a bit of an outlier. but every other team manages to make up for their star players' lack of shooting, passing, whatever by filling needs with complementary talent...
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Can I just say, as someone who would be OK trading Tyreke Evans, no one advocating we trade him for garbage. I want to see the offer before I say yes or no.
And I am only ok with trading Tyreke Evans because I'm also ok with trading Isaiah Thomas, Marcus Thornton, or Jimmer Fredette. My only untouchable is DeMarcus Cousins. The Kings only untouchable should be DeMarcus Cousins.
And I am only ok with trading Tyreke Evans because I'm also ok with trading Isaiah Thomas, Marcus Thornton, or Jimmer Fredette. My only untouchable is DeMarcus Cousins. The Kings only untouchable should be DeMarcus Cousins.
Agreed. Who says a team doesn't offer us a top 3 pick for him? Or Andre Iggy straight up?
The fact remains that Tyreke has not become the player we've expected him to be after his 3rd season. You can have or create all the excuses for the world for him, but it does not change that fact. No one's suggesting we deal him for scraps. But if Portland calls and offers a top 10 pick+rights to Batum? I have no problem shopping anyone on a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 6 years outside of Cousins.
Alacron
Bench
Since I haven't been commenting as the season progressed, I'll spill my guts here.
Evans was hampered most of last year by injuries, this year he finished at the rim better. He was also MUCH more selective with his jumpers, especially later in the season.
Case in point is the game in Charlotte when he shot 10-11 and I'm pretty sure those were all layups. Tyreke has learned what he can and can't do and isn't forcing bad jumpers, thus the FG% goes up. At the same time, though, when they back off him inside the 3pt line, he's been squaring up and hitting the easy jumper with more consistency. So props to Tyreke for improving his game in those aspects, though he definitely needs to get more comfortable with that shot.
I think it's fair to note that Evans' shooting woes wouldn't matter so much if he played with better shooters. His 3pt% is comparable to Tony Parker's, but nobody calls Parker a bum because he doesn't have a long-range shot. Other than Thornton, none of Evans' teammates early in the season could spread the floor. Jimmer and Isaiah weren't getting a lot of minutes yet, Garcia forgot how to shoot (.290), Outlaw's performance actually declined from that which got him waived from New Jersey in the first place (.267), Greene failed to step up (.238), and Salmons did his best John Salmons impression (.295). How many assists did Evans miss because he passed to guys who lay bricks?
On the other hand, IT proved that he's a player. Crucially, he gave us another 3pt shooter (.379). The problem is that when he's at PG with Evans at SF, it's the same issue. He can penetrate anytime, but kicking it to Evans on the perimeter doesn't result in an easy open bucket because Evans can't shoot. Instead it results in Evans setting up the offense again and looking for an opening. To me this suggests that Evans-IT is not a great combination on the floor, unless maybe, and counterintuitively, Tyreke assumes the PG role.
Shooting isn't absolutely necessary from a PG if they can create and pass to teammates who CAN shoot. But the lack of production from our SFs just killed us all season. Of course, that came as no huge surprise after we picked up the underwhelming duo of Salmons and Outlaw. I personally was hoping Greene might prove himself to be the guy, but was sadly disappointed (though Smart's irrational benching of Greene at odd times didn't help). I can't argue much with Smart's decision to go to a three-guard lineup considering how thoroughly those guys were outplaying every other option we had.
Anyway, Evans-Cousins could give the league fits for years to come, you don't break that up nonchalantly. It'll be a lot less painful to find a way to make it work. I doubt Tyreke will command a max salary, but if he does, it'll be because he's improved his game enough to earn it, so I'll be glad when it becomes an issue.
~~
Evans was hampered most of last year by injuries, this year he finished at the rim better. He was also MUCH more selective with his jumpers, especially later in the season.
Case in point is the game in Charlotte when he shot 10-11 and I'm pretty sure those were all layups. Tyreke has learned what he can and can't do and isn't forcing bad jumpers, thus the FG% goes up. At the same time, though, when they back off him inside the 3pt line, he's been squaring up and hitting the easy jumper with more consistency. So props to Tyreke for improving his game in those aspects, though he definitely needs to get more comfortable with that shot.
I think it's fair to note that Evans' shooting woes wouldn't matter so much if he played with better shooters. His 3pt% is comparable to Tony Parker's, but nobody calls Parker a bum because he doesn't have a long-range shot. Other than Thornton, none of Evans' teammates early in the season could spread the floor. Jimmer and Isaiah weren't getting a lot of minutes yet, Garcia forgot how to shoot (.290), Outlaw's performance actually declined from that which got him waived from New Jersey in the first place (.267), Greene failed to step up (.238), and Salmons did his best John Salmons impression (.295). How many assists did Evans miss because he passed to guys who lay bricks?
On the other hand, IT proved that he's a player. Crucially, he gave us another 3pt shooter (.379). The problem is that when he's at PG with Evans at SF, it's the same issue. He can penetrate anytime, but kicking it to Evans on the perimeter doesn't result in an easy open bucket because Evans can't shoot. Instead it results in Evans setting up the offense again and looking for an opening. To me this suggests that Evans-IT is not a great combination on the floor, unless maybe, and counterintuitively, Tyreke assumes the PG role.
Shooting isn't absolutely necessary from a PG if they can create and pass to teammates who CAN shoot. But the lack of production from our SFs just killed us all season. Of course, that came as no huge surprise after we picked up the underwhelming duo of Salmons and Outlaw. I personally was hoping Greene might prove himself to be the guy, but was sadly disappointed (though Smart's irrational benching of Greene at odd times didn't help). I can't argue much with Smart's decision to go to a three-guard lineup considering how thoroughly those guys were outplaying every other option we had.
Anyway, Evans-Cousins could give the league fits for years to come, you don't break that up nonchalantly. It'll be a lot less painful to find a way to make it work. I doubt Tyreke will command a max salary, but if he does, it'll be because he's improved his game enough to earn it, so I'll be glad when it becomes an issue.
~~
Absolutely agree. Now what?
Padrino
All-Star
easy. let's set aside the possibility of any potential acquisition this offseason, including draft picks, and let's account for the re-signing of jason thompson and terrence williams. you start this unit:
PG isaiah thomas
SG tyreke evans
SF terrence williams
PF jason thompson
C demarcus cousins
6th marcus thornton
it was never tried. it should have been tried. then you stop playing gimmick ball and embrace the pick and roll. jerry sloan famously once said that he coached pick and roll basketball because he didn't know how to coach anything else. it was a modest simplification of a basketball truth: traditionalism tends to win out in a rather traditionally-structured sport. the kings should be running pick and rolls like crazy, and if you look at the unit above, every player can execute them. gimmick ball breeds bad habits. but a traditional approach to offensive schemes can breed discipline in a young team, and such discipline on offense is necessary to creating a disciplined mind set on defense. so, as a coaching staff, you commit to teaching your young players how to set a hard screen, how to quickly cut off a hard screen, and, perhaps most importantly, how to move through a screen on defense. in fact, i'll state a less ambitious goal: as a coaching staff, you commit to teaching your young players, something we have not yet seen in the evans/cousins era. and again, this is before additional offseason acquisitions are considered. if the kings coaching staff just moved away from its perpetually-losing style of play, and took efficient stock of the talent already on their roster, and maximized that talent from within a more traditional style of play, they'd likely be a .400 ball club without making a single roster improvement...
The Hammer
All-Star
Wait, are you saying you'd trade Tyreke Evans for Andre Iguodala straight up? Iggy's not a bad player, but that's exactly the kind of garbage trade that will make you famous.
For a top 3 pick? In this draft? Maybe. If it was number one. I would not trade Evans for the rights to MKG. You would?
The Hammer
All-Star
Thank you for increasing the sanity quotient of this board. We've missed you.
Gary
All-Star
This is the exact lineup I would like to see next year unless we were to get MKG/Davis/Marshall/Robinson.. Then of course you would start Marshall at PG or MKG at SF or Robinson/Davis at PF.
Evans is a very good BBall player, and I see no reason with his skills that he couldn't learn to play off the ball a bit better than he did this year. Good players learn to adjust.
Also, I would like to see Fab Melo drafted for defensive purposes so if that means purchasing a late 1st rounder (which happens it seems every year) or using our 2nd rounder if he falls to us I would love to see him drafted.
Gary
All-Star
I have a weird dilemma. I would probably draft Barnes over MKG (it's probably a tossup right now though or it will be when the measurements come out) but I would not trade Evans for Barnes... I would though think long and hard about trading Evans for MKG if MKG was a top 2-3 pick.
I guess my reasoning is that I feel that MKG is a top talent in the draft and if we had the 6th pick there would be a reason he fell to 6th so I would probably go with Barnes because it's the safer pick..... But I think long term MKG would have a lot more value then Barnes. It's like comparing Glenn Rice to Gerald Wallace. You can't really compare them even though they played the same position.
So if MKG or Barnes was available at 6 I would take Barnes and wouldn't trade Evans for MKG or Barnes if another team got them at 5th-10th
If we had the 3rd pick I would take MKG over Barnes in a heart beat and if another team picked MKG at 2nd or 3rd I would trade Evans for MKG.
Doesn't make much sense eh? I haven't had a lot of time to evaluate players this year although I have been doing a lot of it recently. So if MKG was to all of a sudden fall or bad reports came out on him for some reason I would be more inclined to go with the safer pick which is Barnes. I hope you all understood that. I don't know if I did lol.
Padrino
All-Star
marshall intrigues me, as well. the kings bench needs massive improvement, and shifting both thornton and thomas to the bench would be a huge boon for second unit scoring. it would also render jimmer more superfluous than he already is, but them's the breaks when you draft hype over need, i'm afraid. defense is still an issue no matter how you slice and dice it, but one step at a time, i say. i really do want a head coach that teaches pick and roll basketball, though, because i see so much potential in an offense run through cousins, with athletic players like williams and thomas, and strong players like evans, thornton, and williams cutting all over the goddamn court. pick and roll basketball is disciplined basketball, and a disciplined offense makes getting back on defense more habitual. you can correct some of your defensive issues internally simply by adjusting to a more disciplined offensive system...
edit: however, i am not on board with the notion of trading evans to acquire marshall. i really like the idea of marshall in a kings uni, but the idea of marshall, top talent in the draft though he may be, is not satisfactory enough to warrant trading tyreke evans, an already-established talent from his draft class. you wanna talk a package that includes marshall and brings another gap-filler to sacramento, i'd be open to the possibility, but it'd have to be one tantalizing ****ing trade if i'm gambling on marshall's potential over evans'...
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