Then why mut be wait 3 years? If a GM constructs a team of young players with future potential I see your point, but Vlade didn't do that here. What he did was mortgage the future to build for the present. You are right in that SAC is not a FA destination. So how can the Kings succeed despite not attracting top quality players? They have to build through the draft. What did Vlade do a couple of years ago? He traded Nik Stauskas, draft picks and a guaranteed draft pick to the 76ers for cap space to sign veteran players so the Kings could compete in the present. I don't see why it's unfair to blame Vlade for trading away the only way the Kings can compete and fail at building a competitive team for the present when that was his goal.
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Then why mut be wait 3 years? If a GM constructs a team of young players with future potential I see your point, but Vlade didn't do that here. What he did was mortgage the future to build for the present. You are right in that SAC is not a FA destination. So how can the Kings succeed despite not attracting top quality players? They have to build through the draft. What did Vlade do a couple of years ago? He traded Nik Stauskas, draft picks and a guaranteed draft pick to the 76ers for cap space to sign veteran players so the Kings could compete in the present. I don't see why it's unfair to blame Vlade for trading away the only way the Kings can compete and fail at building a competitive team for the present when that was his goal.
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KingsFan80
Guest
It was a sarcastic joke
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KingsFan80
Guest
Because he is learning on the job. He had no prior experience or expertise in running an NBA team. It is a mess
twslam07
All-Star
The season is still young. The goal is for them to compete this year.
As far as youth goes, they added 4 young guys in Papa, Richardson, Labissiere, & Bogdanovic. One who is oversees getting minutes and the other three which are in the D-League (Just so you know, the "D" stands for "Development"). Just because players aren't necessarily getting burn in the NBA, that doesn't mean they aren't developing behind the scenes. That's a very naive stance to take.
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KingsFan80
Guest
Statistically -- How many D-league players, going there directly out of the draft, , have ended up being impact players in the NBA? I honestly don't know the answer but would imagine it is fairly low.
twslam07
All-Star
Well if you do that, you run the risk of losing Cousins. It's hard to project how loyal Cousins would be 3-4 years out. Despite what Cousins has said, there's always the risk we lose him because of how competitive (or noncompetitive) we are.
I think the Philly trade ended up being a bad move by Vlade. It basically is going to come down to Stauskas, 2018 pick swap, & 2019 unprotected for M. Richardson & Koufos. That's not a good trade. I think Vlade underestimated how difficult it would be to sign someone to come here. With Joerger, he's trying to change the culture and he signed some veterans on flexible contracts in hopes of making us look like a decent team this year. Will be around .500 by the end of the year? Who knows? But you can't deny that being a near .500/fringe playoff team, a year of stability w/ Vlade & Joerger, progression in Cousins' game, improvement in Cousins' antics, 5 young players to develop in the background (Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis, Richardson, Labissiere, & Bogdanovic), & having the best stadium in the world would make us look a bit more attractive? Couple that with the decrease in teams that will have cap space this year, and we could get lucky.
That is how I am interpreting Vlade's actions, and this is the strategy I think he has been considering. I've been on record to say that I would want him to have a conversation with Cousins about wanting to sell off our veterans for young assets in an attempt to build a better team around Cousins. If Cousins is on board with the vision, keep him on the team and resign him. If he doesn't like that vision and would rather try to compete immediately, trade him. I am not confident in our abilities to sign a game changing FA at this point in time.
If Vlade chooses to go against the strategy I laid out above AND is unable to bring in game changing FAs next year, I will have a problem with Vlade as our GM. If I'm wrong, and he can bring aboard a game changing talent, I will be pleasantly surprised.
This trade deadline & offseason is when I will make a determination about Vlade's trading, free agent abilities, vision, etc. However, my take on his ability to draft probably won't be for another year or two after that point.
twslam07
All-Star
Feel free to "imagine" all you want
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KingsFan80
Guest
So what is the answer? Because if I am using your logic to be excited about our future draft picks I think it is relevant, don't you?
twslam07
All-Star
Nobody has experience running an NBA team until you actually do it. Just like any job...
If you're only allowed to hire GMs who have been GMs before, the NBA is going to run out of GMs in about 70 years or so when they all die off.
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KingsFan80
Guest
The Kings could have hired someone with prior experience. The only reason Vlade got the job, and people continue to put up with the bad decisions, is because he is a loved former player. I don't get that logic, but it is frustrating. Sorry but I don't want to be the training wheels for someone to learn on.
twslam07
All-Star
If you're going to make assumptions & "imagine" things to try and prove your point, the onus is on you to back it up with facts and evidence. Not me. Until then, you're just throwing things at the wall and hoping something sticks. This is the epitome of a post having no substance.
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KingsFan80
Guest
I am not sure how asking, stats wise, how many drafted rookies going straight to the D-League end up working out as impact players is throwing things against the wall. You are trying to say i should be excited about D-League players when you know the answer to my question.
twslam07
All-Star
That is not the only reason nor a reason. Where is this group of people who said "I put up with his decisions because I loved the player he was while he was here?" You're imaging once again. You're creating this image in your head of what people believe that are inclined to give Vlade his fair shake. That's a dangerous assumption to make, and it makes you look weak in your other arguments.
And by the way, you missed the point yet again...
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KingsFan80
Guest
Vlade would never have that job if he wasn't a former player. And Vivek would have never hired him if he knew it wasn't a great PR move at a time when nobody was happy with Vivek. It is ridiculous, I rest my case but pay for it out of my wallet with a terrible product
twslam07
All-Star
I'm not going to spend the time to look that up. That's the point I'm making. If you're trying to convince me that what you said above was true, how about you do your own homework and look it up yourself?
What you describe as "D-League players," I can also describe as 1st round picks.
Seriously though. How does our 1st round picks playing in the D-League paint them in a bad light especially when they were #13, #22, & #28? We didn't draft a top 5 player and send him to the D-League. We took a development big who is raw (Papagiannis), a very skinny player who needs time to add strength before he can face grown men in the NBA (Labissiere), & Richardson who has Temple, Afflalo, & McLemore ahead of him at SG.
We have a ton of depth on this team. We have 12 guys right now that probably could contribute to a rotation (Collison, Lawson, Temple, Afflalo, McLemore, Gay, Casspi, Barnes, Tolliver, Cauley-Stein, Cousins, & Koufos). Not every team can say that, and considering we have a plethora of veterans who can play, why are we up in arms sending our three 1st rounders to the D-League? Would you rather them rot on the bench or actually get some playing time in Reno? It's pretty simple really...
twslam07
All-Star
Shifting goal posts once again... Your mind truly does wander
You don't have to have prior GM experience, but you should have some front office experience whether it be as an assistant GM or in an adviser role. I think we can all agree Vlade was pretty "green" when he became GM of the Kings.
itzcoatl
Bench
It's a little easier to make good draft choices when you luck into the #2 spot and draft the consensus #2 player (Parker). Granted Giannis was a good pick, but Parker was a no-brainer.
Vlade's number 1 priority in his year and a 1/3, is to create stability and help facilitate a culture change. He's brought in vets to help facilitate that change, he's hired a young successful coach who is in the process of establishing that culture change and the young talent is being developed either in the D League or on the current roster.
This is going to take more than 20 odd games. Joerger's said as much. He said they need to learn to compete first. Sure the hell looks like they are doing that. Next step is to learn to win these games.
If you coached at all, you would know that this process takes more than what a certain faction of the fanbase is willing to give. What that group wants to do is another step in what we have been doing for the past 10 years which is just over react.
If you don't have the intestinal fortitude to suck it up, and if your a Kings fan, you should have it by now, then just jump off the bandwagon.
This is going to take more than 20 odd games. Joerger's said as much. He said they need to learn to compete first. Sure the hell looks like they are doing that. Next step is to learn to win these games.
If you coached at all, you would know that this process takes more than what a certain faction of the fanbase is willing to give. What that group wants to do is another step in what we have been doing for the past 10 years which is just over react.
If you don't have the intestinal fortitude to suck it up, and if your a Kings fan, you should have it by now, then just jump off the bandwagon.
Culture change? These aren't young players. These are veteran players. Few of them are holdovers from previous regimes. Why do they need to learn how to compete? Did George Karl and the water in Sacramento make them forget? If you have young players, sure you bring veterans to help steer the ship in the right direction, but by in large the Kings are not a young team.
You say Vlade wants to change the culture, but you bring in guys like Lawson and Barnes.
You say Vlade wants to change the culture, but you bring in guys like Lawson and Barnes.
Suicide King
Starter
"An all-time high 135 players with NBA D-League experience were on NBA rosters at the start of the 2016-17 regular season, representing 30 percent of the league.
This group includes both players who were assigned from the NBA to the NBA D-League and players who were called up from the NBA D-League to the NBA at some point in their careers.
"At least 30 NBA D-League prospects have been called up to the NBA in each of the past five seasons. A record 68 NBA players were assigned to the NBA D-League an all-time high 321 total times in 2015-16."
Top players who have been assigned to the NBA D-League include Suns guard Eric Bledsoe, Jazz center Rudy Gobert, Pistons guard Reggie Jackson and Lakers guard Jordan Clarkson.
Top players who were called up from the NBA D-League include Spurs guard Danny Green, Heat guard Gerald Green, Hornets guard Jeremy Lin and Heat center Hassan Whiteside."
http://dleague.nba.com/faq/
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KingMilz
Guest
C0aches/GM can do everything wrong but as long as they support Cousins it's all forgotten if Karl or some other GM were coaching/managing the current team and they didn't suck up to Cousins the board would be going mental about poor coaching/rotations/signings/iso ball but because they support Cousins it's all about culture/stability/competing and that it takes time and we are always one piece away from championships and so on.
2011: Knight vs. Jimmer
2012: Henson vs. T-Rob
2013: Giannis vs. McLemore
2014: Parker
2015: Vaughn
Kings sucked at drafting within the last 5 years. The Bucks didn't. The Bucks have their future locked up for the next 5 years, we don't. In 2015, we drafted WCS. WCS is 1 year older than Giannis(drafted in 2013), 2 years older than Parker(drafted in 2014), and 3 years older than Vaughn(same year).
We basically gave away our 2014 lotto pick to charity.
There's no reason why Bucks fans are up in arms about Thon Maker. They are winning. They don't need to rely on Thon Maker to contribute. The Kings are losing. It's pretty simple to see...
Culture change of what though? He brought a guy who was arrested 3x within 2 years... Matt Barnes isn't a guy you bring to try to create positive culture....
This is something a team like the Lakers or T-Wolves need to do. You yourself, just said the Kings brought in a ton of vets. Why are the Kings starting with babysteps on a team full of vets? The youngest and most active/consistent contributor to this team is Cousins...at 26. Seriously?
Huh? I don't understand this. Why shouldn't Kings fans overreact when we've had 10 years of losing, our franchise player is already 26 and only has 2 years left, we have no long-term pieces around him that are ready to contribute, and we're trying to go through these "baby steps" of how to win 101 with a team consisting of a 29yearold-31yearold-30yearold-26yearold-27yearold?
You do realize that we have one of the oldest starting lineups in the NBA right?
lol and just because people criticize this sorry ass excuse of a organization does not mean they're giving up their fandom.
This right here is my biggest gripe. I've tried to remain optimistic in the past, but I'm tired of the moral victories with this franchise. Moral victories are for young teams, not a veteran built team like the Kings. The epitome of this year has been "we were so close to beating <insert sub. 500 team here."
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KingsFan80
Guest
Great post. There is a group on here with their heads in the sand. They think I am a troll or no longer a fan because I don't like this Front Office. Sorry but people standing up for this crap sounds like people who lose. This roster is 100% complete garbage. We have two guys on this team who are good players.
Some people have gotten so used to losing that you either excuse it or you are going down the losing train with Vlade. I expect to win and I am not getting anyone a pass, I couldn't careless if they are a former star player or what. So far his moves have been garbage to go along with the roster and it all points he wasn't qualified for this job
twslam07
All-Star
Your perception of what others "think" around here is extremely off. You like to create this imaginary group that is against you and paint them with what you THINK they believe not what you KNOW them to believe.
This is why people think you have troll tendencies. You generalize people more than anyone on this forum.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
he recognized that he did and got a bunch of young players to develop with the vets he acquired.
nik stauskas, draft picks and a heaping pile of ......turned into marco, koufos and rondo .... turned marco ---> (draft pick) richardson, garrett temple, lawson, afflalo, tolliver ... whats next? he earned one of those future draft picks he traded away into richardson. if the pick swap turns out we're higher.. philly won't pick swap so we lose nothing. i believe its 2 swaps + a future 1st (you can count richardson as that pick we're guaranteed to convey). so what did we really give up?
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I just wonder how many players who have played in the D-League on a percentage basis over the last 1o years have failed? The above stats only tell the half-full story.
Vlade clearly settled for lesser players. Marco is having a great year with the Hornets while Afflalo has been terrible with the Kings.
Vlado essentially traded Nik, a unprotected 1st round pick, and Rondo for Koufos, Lawson, Afflalo, Temple and Tolliver. Easy to see which side you would rather have.
Vlado essentially traded Nik, a unprotected 1st round pick, and Rondo for Koufos, Lawson, Afflalo, Temple and Tolliver. Easy to see which side you would rather have.
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