Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades
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I just want some clarification here. You are a Celtics fan. BUT your second favorite team is one of the furthest teams from them, the Kings. You dont spend time on Celtics boards but do spend time on a Kings board. The majority of your posts are Kings negative and the occasional trade to make the Kings worse but the Celtics bstter. How. Do. You. Fit. In?
Why does he/she need to fit in? This forum isn't here for just Kings fans. It's here for anyone who wants to talk about the Kings. Yes, many of us are Kings fans simply because fans of the teams they support are far more likely to discuss that said team on a forum, but it certainly doesn't mean those who love to watch/talk basketball or love to watch/talk about multiple teams should be shunned.
You're more than welcome here, @CelticsFan . There's many posters here that appreciate when non-Kings fans share their thoughts & opinions on the team (myself included).
You're more than welcome here, @CelticsFan . There's many posters here that appreciate when non-Kings fans share their thoughts & opinions on the team (myself included).
CelticsFan is cool. He's not trolling, he's just posting his opinion and the fact that he comes from a different perspective than most of us is a good thing for discussion purposes. The tendency for most fan communities to turn into echo chambers of self-delusion is what makes most most of them intolerable for all but the most devoted of true believers. The strength of this community, such as it is, derives from our ability to meet outside opinions with civil discourse and an open-mind. When we fall short of that is when things start to get ugly.
Sure, I'll take Curry! On a serious note, the major problem with these Warriors is after their top 6-7 players, they are extremely thin in regards to a bench. They just don't have a good one and when it comes to big men, they are a joke. I really don't think the Warriors have anything we would want back because they aren't trading anyone of value and I certainly wouldn't do them any favors by taking their trash in return.
What I bolded is pretty funny. This is why I'm not as on board with Vlade as everyone else. I didn't see Vlade go all in with the draft for Cousins. In fact, he drafted Cousins' replacement just in case. UNLESS, you are trying to tell me that Vlade decided he wanted to spend a lottery pick on a backup C...which would probably make it even worse. Shows lack of judgment, evaluation, etc. In his first year here, he goes ALL IN. 2nd year? He doesn't. Has 3 1st round picks and uses them all on raw prospects will not be able to positively contribute for at least 2/3 years, maybe even later.
It's a fleeced trade. Not sure why fans constantly keep denying this. It was a trade with HORRIBLE POOR judgement too.
Did everyone forget that Vlade was actually trying to go blindly all in for Wesley Matthews coming off an Achilles injury? Not what we ended up with? It's like if the Kings decided to trade away Casspi, Koufos, and WCS for a shot at Courtney Lee. All of that is forgiven? Why?
Do I really have to go through all the alternative ways we could've got rid of JT+Landry? JT, contract only guaranteed like $2million. Landry, easily stretched. YET, the Kings really had to give up the former 8th pick+2016 pick swap+2017 pickswap+2018 1st round pick.......
We're including pick swaps which prevent the Kings from getting the #1 overall pick if we decide we want to trade Cousins in the next 2 years. It also conflict with other trade interests as well. For example, there were rumors about the Kings trying to trade with the Bulls that actually lowered the protection, yet, we couldn't do it without Phily's permission.
We also lose a pick in 2018, the year where Cousins becomes a FA.
It's still a bad trade because the trade was not needed. It was unnecessary, and certainly helped us a lot last year right? Reaching past 30 wins in 7 years? wooo?
It's a fleeced trade. Not sure why fans constantly keep denying this. It was a trade with HORRIBLE POOR judgement too.
Did everyone forget that Vlade was actually trying to go blindly all in for Wesley Matthews coming off an Achilles injury? Not what we ended up with? It's like if the Kings decided to trade away Casspi, Koufos, and WCS for a shot at Courtney Lee. All of that is forgiven? Why?
Do I really have to go through all the alternative ways we could've got rid of JT+Landry? JT, contract only guaranteed like $2million. Landry, easily stretched. YET, the Kings really had to give up the former 8th pick+2016 pick swap+2017 pickswap+2018 1st round pick.......
We're including pick swaps which prevent the Kings from getting the #1 overall pick if we decide we want to trade Cousins in the next 2 years. It also conflict with other trade interests as well. For example, there were rumors about the Kings trying to trade with the Bulls that actually lowered the protection, yet, we couldn't do it without Phily's permission.
We also lose a pick in 2018, the year where Cousins becomes a FA.
It's still a bad trade because the trade was not needed. It was unnecessary, and certainly helped us a lot last year right? Reaching past 30 wins in 7 years? wooo?
I think when you size up Nik as "former 8th pick" instead of "worthless piece of poopoo".... and you agonize over pick swaps that will never happen - it hurts your argument. Vlade gave up a future 1st and a grab bag of chips, cheetos and beer nuts.
As of now, there is no "scoreboard" - there is nothing quantifiable - to show it was fleeced trade.
All I see is that guys with less imagination than Vlade don't like it - and that is to be expected
As of now, there is no "scoreboard" - there is nothing quantifiable - to show it was fleeced trade.
All I see is that guys with less imagination than Vlade don't like it - and that is to be expected
Stauskas is a worthless piece of crap? You know who else was a worthless piece of crap and didn't do anything in their rookie year?
Gary Harris.
3.4pts 1.2rebs on 30.4% FG and 20.4% 3pt.
Or how about Terry Rozier?
1.8pts 1.6rebs 27.4% FG and 22% 3pt.
Oh wait, maybe we shouldn't label players as busts after 1 year in the NBA? Who would've thought? Oh, what functional organization in the NBA would give up on a 1st year rookie drafted in the NBA lotto? None. That's why we're part of the dysfunctional group. It clicks now.
How does this hurt my argument? If all hell breaks lose again(not saying it will), it prevents the Kings from tanking at a #1 overall pick, because it would belong to Philly anyways. I don't get why the pick swaps in your mind don't matter.
Remember the Nets pick swaps? How did that work out for them? Oh wait, it didn't work out well at all. Celtics were supposedly "rebuilding and not going to be good for like 5 years after trading away Piece and Garnett", so there's no way the Nets could ever get worse than the "horrible Celtics".
So you're admitting that Vlade traded a future 1st round pick for cap space towards a SG coming off an Achilles season injury? The same SG who took less money and didn't come here?
How is this good judgement in any way possible? Honestly? His intentions at the time were pretty clear: Go all in on Wes Matthews. It was a dumb trade because we didn't end up with Wes Matthews, instead, we ended up with Koufos, Richardson, and 1 year of Rondo. How many more wins than the previous season? 4?
The context of our 1st round pick owed to Philly is really important. I don't think we can ignore that at all. 2019 1st round pick is the year AFTER Cousins' FA decision. If Cousins leaves for FA, the Kings will be horrible that year.
Gary Harris.
3.4pts 1.2rebs on 30.4% FG and 20.4% 3pt.
Or how about Terry Rozier?
1.8pts 1.6rebs 27.4% FG and 22% 3pt.
Oh wait, maybe we shouldn't label players as busts after 1 year in the NBA? Who would've thought? Oh, what functional organization in the NBA would give up on a 1st year rookie drafted in the NBA lotto? None. That's why we're part of the dysfunctional group. It clicks now.
How does this hurt my argument? If all hell breaks lose again(not saying it will), it prevents the Kings from tanking at a #1 overall pick, because it would belong to Philly anyways. I don't get why the pick swaps in your mind don't matter.
Remember the Nets pick swaps? How did that work out for them? Oh wait, it didn't work out well at all. Celtics were supposedly "rebuilding and not going to be good for like 5 years after trading away Piece and Garnett", so there's no way the Nets could ever get worse than the "horrible Celtics".
So you're admitting that Vlade traded a future 1st round pick for cap space towards a SG coming off an Achilles season injury? The same SG who took less money and didn't come here?
How is this good judgement in any way possible? Honestly? His intentions at the time were pretty clear: Go all in on Wes Matthews. It was a dumb trade because we didn't end up with Wes Matthews, instead, we ended up with Koufos, Richardson, and 1 year of Rondo. How many more wins than the previous season? 4?
The context of our 1st round pick owed to Philly is really important. I don't think we can ignore that at all. 2019 1st round pick is the year AFTER Cousins' FA decision. If Cousins leaves for FA, the Kings will be horrible that year.
Stauskas has a great skill with his shooting ability, but the major issue with him is mental. He's a shooter that's afraid to shoot and has no confidence in his shot. You don't have to be a genius to realize that this is not a good thing! We all saw that his rookie season (completely wide open and just passes it, confusing both the fans and his teammates in the process). Unfortunately for him, not much has changed. I think I read a story recently where he is now seeing a therapist to boost his confidence level. I hate to say it, but at this rate he will be out of the NBA relatively quickly. I hope I am wrong as he is easy to like and has a good head on his shoulders. This level of play is pretty cutthroat....
Still too early to give up on Stauskas. My hope is that he gets some decent coaching this year and he's used to his strengths. He certainly wasn't while with the Kings, who had him do nothing but go stand in a corner and stay out of the way. All this one and done stuff has screwed up normal expectations. Players used to come into the league after four years of college. Now they come out after one year, maybe two, but our expectations have remained the same. There's a reason why players like Lillard came into the league and made an immediate splash. They were more prepared!
I honestly don't know why a good majority of people on the board continue to ignore this. IF we keep Cousins, then cool, it means we're a pretty good team and probably giving an 18-22 type of pick. Not ideal, but it basically became a swap of Nik+ 18th pick for Malachi+Koufos. I can live with that for sure.
But IF Cousins leaves or we trade him, we're flat out going to be bad. 20-25 wins which would firmly in play for the #1 overall pick. It would set the franchise back for years, which again, people seem to ignore for some reason.
The "all-in" argument was nullified after Vlade passed on Wade Baldwin for our projected 3rd string C in Papa. Despite the fact that PG was a huge need for us (and still is really). Despite the fact that C was the one position we had secured long-term on the team (Boogie 2 years, WCS, Koufos 3 years). And the early returns on Papa are far from promising; he's shown virtually nothing to justify being a lottery pick or even a "long-term project' label. While I was and still a fan of the trade, Marquess Chriss has looked great for a young guy and could be a real miss from Vlade for passing on him.
But IF Cousins leaves or we trade him, we're flat out going to be bad. 20-25 wins which would firmly in play for the #1 overall pick. It would set the franchise back for years, which again, people seem to ignore for some reason.
The "all-in" argument was nullified after Vlade passed on Wade Baldwin for our projected 3rd string C in Papa. Despite the fact that PG was a huge need for us (and still is really). Despite the fact that C was the one position we had secured long-term on the team (Boogie 2 years, WCS, Koufos 3 years). And the early returns on Papa are far from promising; he's shown virtually nothing to justify being a lottery pick or even a "long-term project' label. While I was and still a fan of the trade, Marquess Chriss has looked great for a young guy and could be a real miss from Vlade for passing on him.
eh, i think that's reflective of shallow thinking. The_Jamal may be right. if the kings lose demarcus cousins and end up in a position to earn a top-3 pick from a draft that features a transformative talent, then it could very well set the franchise back for years to lose that pick in addition to cousins, especially if there are no transformative talents in the following draft. it's hard to land a superstar, and small market franchises need access to every avenue available to acquire top-tier players, especially their first round draft picks.
now, i'm nowhere near ready to say that vlade's pick swap move was a failure, but it was definitely a very calculated risk. personally, i don't think demarcus goes anywhere if the kings become a gritty, blue collar playoff-caliber squad, which then renders the pick swaps largely meaningless. in such an event, big cuz likely signs a short-term extension to see how far a partnership between he and coach joerger can take this team. however, if the kings aren't able to make the playoffs, then demarcus is as good as gone, and those pick swaps get thrown under a huge magnifying glass, and so does vlade.
now, i'm nowhere near ready to say that vlade's pick swap move was a failure, but it was definitely a very calculated risk. personally, i don't think demarcus goes anywhere if the kings become a gritty, blue collar playoff-caliber squad, which then renders the pick swaps largely meaningless. in such an event, big cuz likely signs a short-term extension to see how far a partnership between he and coach joerger can take this team. however, if the kings aren't able to make the playoffs, then demarcus is as good as gone, and those pick swaps get thrown under a huge magnifying glass, and so does vlade.
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