Could Hawes = Vlade?

bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Always looking for a good controversy, I decided to compare the two. Considering that Coachie also refered to Hawes and Thompson as the next possible Vlade and Webb. That got me curious, and although there's no completely fair way to compare the two, I decided to just go with both players first two years in the league. Bear in mind that Vlade was 21 years old and had played professional ball in the european league. Hawes was 19 years old with one year of college ball. Also remember that this isn't a personallity contest, but a comparison of skills.

Vlade Divac: 1st year- 19.6 MPG- 8.5 PPG- 6.2 RPG- 0.9 APG- 1.3 BPG
2nd year- 28.2 MPG- 11.2 PPG- 8.1 RPG- 1.1 APG- 1.5 BPG

S. Hawes: 1st year- 13.1 MPG- 4.7 PPG- 3.2 RPG- 0.6 APG- 0.5 BPG
2nd year- 29.3 MPG- 11.4 PPG- 7.1 RPG- 1.9 APG- 1.2 BPG

If you take note of both players second year, you'll notice quite a similarity between them. When you consider the age difference and the experience difference, I think it bodes well for the future. They both may not arrive at the same destination in exactly the same way, but its the results that count.

I'm not saying that Hawes jersey will hanging from the rafters of ARCO next to Vlade's, but I'am saying that its possible that the Kings have a legitimate center thats capable of becoming a very similar player, especially in the assists dept.

Yes, I realize that they played on very different teams with different coaching. But if anything, that should have favored Vlade, not Hawes. This third year is a very important year for Hawes. He needs to establish his identity in the league, and hopefully some leadership on the team.
 
Hawes has some B52 in him ( sounds like some kind of vitamin ) but dont forget Spencers post game. When he uses it its a beautiful thing, and thats something he has on Vlade and Miller.

As far as potentially being as good as Divac, you cant tell me it isnt possible. ( at least when it comes to numbers ) but what set Vlade apart was what he did for the Kings off the court and in the locker room, and I just cant see Spencer being that guy.
 
The only thing I see stopping Hawes from being better than the last 2 Kings centers is his health. Vlade and B-Rad didn't have the knee issues that Spence does. I do see Hawes being a better center than both of them at his peak barring any knee troubles. How many all-star appearances between Vlade and B-Rad 1 maybe 2?? I'm not sure. Hawes might make the all-star team a time or two before he's done.
 
Personally I see no comparison between Miller and Hawes. I've watched basketball a long time, and I've watched Hawes from highschool to college to the NBA. In college he was a good outside shooter, but played mostly in the post. Its been surprising to me to see him play away from the basket as much as he has. I don't believe it happened because thats where he's always wanted to play.

He has a very good post game that should translate well to the NBA. All he needs is experience, and a coach that wants him to play in the post. He has a much more competitive personality than Miller, and he's more athletic than Miller. In the post he can hook the ball with either hand. Miller was almost strictly a righthanded player who didn't know what a hook shot was. I also believe he has the ability to be a much better defensive player than Miller.

But I've always known that people see what they want to see, and hear what they want to hear. If you don't believe me. The next time your in a good conservation or constructive argument with someone. Ask them to repeat back to you what you just finished saying, right after you said it. You'll be amazed by the blank stares you'll get.:cool:
 
dbfish said:
He doesn't know how to flop.:rolleyes:
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thats why people dont see the similarities.... the one thing that we all think about when it comes to divac was the flopping. he was a great passer but an even better flopper.... hawes needs to master the art of flopping if he stands a chance against howard, oden and maybe bynum...
 
Hawes can be better than Vlade. It seems that many compare the Vlade they saw in Sacto when he was in the prime of his career with Hawes at 20 years old, which obviously is not a fair comparison I think Hawes is a tougher player than Vlade at the same age. (Also, isn't there a tad bit of controversy on whether Vlade's age was legit?:D) In the end, it will be up to Hawes how good he becomes. He's got to show that he has the work ethic to get better every year. (Vlade wasn't exactly a workout warrior). We'll see....
 
AriesMar27 said:
thats why people dont see the similarities.... the one thing that we all think about when it comes to divac was the flopping. he was a great passer but an even better flopper.... hawes needs to master the art of flopping if he stands a chance against howard, oden and maybe bynum...
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Hawes hasn't backed down to any of those guys and actually has outperformed Bynum when they played. So what are you talking about here?
 
Kingsgurl881 said:
Hawes hasn't backed down to any of those guys and actually has outperformed Bynum when they played. So what are you talking about here?
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Um...Bynum aside, who just looked awful in their matchups, Hawes still has a streak on his shorts from when he faced the other two guys.

Spencer averaged 4.3rebs in 33.7min against Portland last year (in 3 games), and 4.0rebs in 26.0min against the Magic (in 2 games). He frequently looked somehting approaching scared and was run over and through. In his 1 start against the Magic, he came up with 14pts 4rebs 5fls and 4TO whiel Howard destroyed him to the tune of 29pts 14rebs 5blk on 11-14 shooting. In his two starts agaisnt Portland he shot a combined 7-21 while being outreboudned by every member of the Blazers frontcourt both games -- Specner grabbed 5rebs each game, his own man, noted softie Alrdidge gabbed 10 each game. Oden grabbed 6 in one 10 in the other. And Pryzbila grabbed 12 and 14.

Its not even a question of who's better -- obviously Howard is, while Oden still has a lot to prove. Its a question of Spencer wanting no part of the physical wars with big guys who want to bang bodies. Him developing some sense for that is a major factor for him going forward, but I'm not sure if that's something you learn. Most guys who like to bang liked to bang when they were 12 too.
 
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Bricklayer said:
Um...Bynum aside, who just looked awful in their matchups, Hawes still has a streak on his shorts from when he faced the other two guys.

Spencer averaged 4.3rebs in 33.7min against Portland last year (in 3 games), and 4.0rebs in 26.0min against the Magic (in 2 games). He frequently looked somehting approaching scared and was run over and through. In his 1 start against the Magic, he came up with 14pts 4rebs 5fls and 4TO whiel Howard destroyed him to the tune of 29pts 14rebs 5blk on 11-14 shooting. In his two starts agaisnt Portland he shot a combined 7-21 while being outreboudned by every member of the Blazers frontcourt both games -- Specner grabbed 5rebs each game, his own man, noted softie Alrdidge gabbed 10 each game. Oden grabbed 6 in one 10 in the other. And Pryzbila grabbed 12 and 14.

Its not even a question of who's better -- obviously Howard is, while Oden still has a lot to prove. Its a question of Spencer wanting no part of the physical wars with big guys who want to bang bodies. Him developing some sense for that is a major factor for him going forward, but I'm not sure if that's something you learn. Most guys who like to bang liked to bang when they were 12 too.
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Yes, Howard destroyed Hawes, but then again who DOESN'T he destroy? Oden didn't show me anything suggesting that Hawes couldn't be competitive against him, and Bynum never impressed me as being dominant against Hawes or pretty much anybody in the league. Yeah, Hawes has a LOT of work to do, but to say that he needs to master the art of flopping to hold his own against Broden and Slymun? Fabrication.

Sometimes I wonder if that guy's roommates haven't stolen his password to this board....
 
Kingsgurl881 said:
Sometimes I wonder if that guy's roommates haven't stolen his password to this board....
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you would know wouldnt you? but why do you say that? because bynum is a laker? he could play for the clippers and i would say the same thing....

hawes is a good player but lets be serious here, what are the chances that he will be able to hang with any of those centers once they hit their prime? there is a reason why i said maybe bynum.... i honestly think that hawes is a better player than bynum but bynum is just as young but more athletic and plays on a better team....

brick is right, hawes will get banged on when he plays against players like howard and oden... maybe bynum if thats his night to prove himself to phil because he fouled out the game before. there's also Nene, Amare, and maybe even marc gasol to deal deal with.

even though i was joking, flopping in the paint sounds a lot better than having our starting center shoot threes....
 
bajaden said:
Always looking for a good controversy, I decided to compare the two. Considering that Coachie also refered to Hawes and Thompson as the next possible Vlade and Webb. That got me curious, and although there's no completely fair way to compare the two, I decided to just go with both players first two years in the league. Bear in mind that Vlade was 21 years old and had played professional ball in the european league. Hawes was 19 years old with one year of college ball. Also remember that this isn't a personallity contest, but a comparison of skills.

Vlade Divac: 1st year- 19.6 MPG- 8.5 PPG- 6.2 RPG- 0.9 APG- 1.3 BPG
2nd year- 28.2 MPG- 11.2 PPG- 8.1 RPG- 1.1 APG- 1.5 BPG

S. Hawes: 1st year- 13.1 MPG- 4.7 PPG- 3.2 RPG- 0.6 APG- 0.5 BPG
2nd year- 29.3 MPG- 11.4 PPG- 7.1 RPG- 1.9 APG- 1.2 BPG

If you take note of both players second year, you'll notice quite a similarity between them. When you consider the age difference and the experience difference, I think it bodes well for the future. They both may not arrive at the same destination in exactly the same way, but its the results that count.

I'm not saying that Hawes jersey will hanging from the rafters of ARCO next to Vlade's, but I'am saying that its possible that the Kings have a legitimate center thats capable of becoming a very similar player, especially in the assists dept.

Yes, I realize that they played on very different teams with different coaching. But if anything, that should have favored Vlade, not Hawes. This third year is a very important year for Hawes. He needs to establish his identity in the league, and hopefully some leadership on the team.
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I agree with your last sentence more than anything. The counting stats line up pretty nice, but the key difference was that Vlade was very efficient scorer due to a high FG% and good FTA numbers. Hawes shoots a mediocre FG% and is the worst guy on the team at drawing fouls. That's a bad combo for a center.

But he's 20, and I agree he could and should make a big step this year.
 
For those who forgot, the premise of this thread was whether Hawes could become a Vlade type player and put up similar numbers to Vlade. Not whether he's going to be able to maul Howard somewhere down the line. Howard is a large athletic freak of nature. As was Shaq. There are only a few of those that come around. Howard also has a lot of holes in his game, but is able to compensate with his athleticism. Hawes doesn't have that luxury, so he has to rely on his skills.

As Kingster pointed out, this was suspossed to be a comparison of both players first two years in the league. Not a comparison of Vlade with the Kings and Hawes in his current state. I don't know if many of you remember Vlade when he came into the league, but he wasn't the 280 pound 7 footer that he was with the Kings. He wasn't as thin as Hawes, but he was close.:cool:
 
when i see Hawes running sprints with a cig in his mouth, i'll give him the crown. until then, he can average a triple double and won't be fit to hold Vlade's jockstrap
 
Hawes has Vlade potential, but he seriously needs to start getting down low and using his post moves which he's most skilled at. I don't know if he'll ever be as good of a rebounder as Vlade though. Thompson won't come near Webber.
 
Vlade changed through the years and its impossible to say whether Spencer will as well. Divac didn't start racking up assists until his 5th and 6th year. For his size, he was very average in all facets of the game aside from his passing. Although in the late 90's to early 00's, he was the only guy able to challenge Shaq in the lane.

Spencer will most likely be average in every aspect of the game as well except for his post moves. If he can run them as smooth as a guy like SAR does, he can be a very high % scorer. His problem is that he has all the tools, he just doesn't know when and where on the floor to use them. That all comes with experience and I believe once he gets smarter with the game, he can be a 17-20ppg scorer. Although I'd rather have him turn into a 10rpg 2bpg center, it doesn't look like he's going down that road.
 
Hawes has potential because he doesn't have a shy trigger. But, his mechanics aren't worth much. He has the potential to rebound b/c of his size. But, his techniques of boxing out are evolving too slow to keep up with most starting Bigmen. He is a willing passer, but because he can't muscle his way past people or dribble his way into scoring position, and it hurts his overall ability to be a truly efficient distributer. On paper, Hawes looks the part, in reality, D-Wade is better bigman than Hawes. Bad comparison. In reality Hawes has nothing to bring to the table that Sean May can't bring. Hawes can run, he also has a decent hook shot, but until that kid grows up he is going to hold the kings back. 21 ,young and dumb is an understatement. I like Hawes, but he is too focused on becoming a shooting and a scorer. He shouldn't be allowed to shoot until he gets 10 rebounds. you know, something to motivate him to be better than David Lee. Because Lee has less to work with, but somehow produces more at a higher rate. Point being, Hawes is like a gradeschooler being held back a grade because of lack of progress. Why else do we draft thompson, sign May, invite Melvin Ely. Reason is to test the progress of hawes, and he has 1 season to show and prove. GL
 
USNAVY15 said:
Hawes has potential because he doesn't have a shy trigger. But, his mechanics aren't worth much. He has the potential to rebound b/c of his size. But, his techniques of boxing out are evolving too slow to keep up with most starting Bigmen. He is a willing passer, but because he can't muscle his way past people or dribble his way into scoring position, and it hurts his overall ability to be a truly efficient distributer. On paper, Hawes looks the part, in reality, D-Wade is better bigman than Hawes. Bad comparison. In reality Hawes has nothing to bring to the table that Sean May can't bring. Hawes can run, he also has a decent hook shot, but until that kid grows up he is going to hold the kings back. 21 ,young and dumb is an understatement. I like Hawes, but he is too focused on becoming a shooting and a scorer. He shouldn't be allowed to shoot until he gets 10 rebounds. you know, something to motivate him to be better than David Lee. Because Lee has less to work with, but somehow produces more at a higher rate. Point being, Hawes is like a gradeschooler being held back a grade because of lack of progress. Why else do we draft thompson, sign May, invite Melvin Ely. Reason is to test the progress of hawes, and he has 1 season to show and prove. GL
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Jeeze... a bit harsh mabye? For a 21 year old second year player who was only recently thrown into the starting job, I'm ecstatic with what he has shown, especially in the last 3 months of the season where he and Thompson really began to gel. 1 season to show and prove? Prove what? That he is the chosen one? I'm sorry but your putting way to way to much weight on the shoulders of a kid who tries his hardest every night. You don't just give up on a Center in his 3rd year because he isn't producing allstar numbers. I expect 13-14 ppg, 8-9 rpg, and 2 to 2.5 apg from Hawes this year... and I'm totaly happy with that.
 
kings Faithful said:
jeeze... A Bit Harsh Mabye? For A 21 Year Old Second Year Player Who Was Only Recently Thrown Into The Starting Job, I'm Ecstatic With What He Has Shown, Especially In The Last 3 Months Of The Season Where He And Thompson Really Began To Gel. 1 Season To Show And Prove? Prove What? That He Is The Chosen One? I'm Sorry But Your Putting Way To Way To Much Weight On The Shoulders Of A Kid Who Tries His Hardest Every Night. You Don't Just Give Up On A Center In His 3rd Year Because He Isn't Producing Allstar Numbers. I Expect 13-14 Ppg, 8-9 Rpg, And 2 To 2.5 Apg From Hawes This Year... And I'm Totaly Happy With That.
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+ 1
 
Kings Faithful said:
Jeeze... a bit harsh mabye? For a 21 year old second year player who was only recently thrown into the starting job, I'm ecstatic with what he has shown, especially in the last 3 months of the season where he and Thompson really began to gel. 1 season to show and prove? Prove what? That he is the chosen one? I'm sorry but your putting way to way to much weight on the shoulders of a kid who tries his hardest every night. You don't just give up on a Center in his 3rd year because he isn't producing allstar numbers. I expect 13-14 ppg, 8-9 rpg, and 2 to 2.5 apg from Hawes this year... and I'm totaly happy with that.
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It'll be something more like 15-17 ppg but otherwise great counter-argument.
 
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