Chipper Hawes

Is Hawes really not a better center than Mays? Or is this a repercussion of Hawes missing SL? Or is too much being read into this and maybe Westphal likes having some talent come off the bench?

KB
 
King Baller said:
Is Hawes really not a better center than Mays? Or is this a repercussion of Hawes missing SL? Or is too much being read into this and maybe Westphal likes having some talent come off the bench?

KB
Click to expand...

I think WAY too much is being read into this right now... Westphal is trying to find a combination that will work and still leave something to come in off the bench.

I don't think Hawes will be coming off the bench for long, if this is true. I think McHale brought up a very good point when he said that Spencer is only 21 years old and in his third year in the NBA. He's still learning and (what McHale didn't say but clearly implied) he didn't have very good leadership or coaching in his first two years.

I think Westphal is going to be very good for Hawes for the simple reason he's already being pretty clear in what he expects from his players, etc. I've also heard he is not going to publicly criticize or demean his players - anything in that vein will be done in private and kept private, which is the way it should be done IMHO.
 
I hope Hawes doesn't come off the bench... and if he does, he better get major minutes. Hawes is my 2nd favorite King behind Martin (Sorry Tyreke, I can't call you a favorite until you play a few games).
 
King Baller said:
Is Hawes really not a better center than Mays? Or is this a repercussion of Hawes missing SL? Or is too much being read into this and maybe Westphal likes having some talent come off the bench?

KB
Click to expand...

It may be that -- starting with the SL thing, and then playing like a weenie in preseason, not sure Westphal's impression of Spencer has gotten off to a great start. Spencer was actually a pain last offseason (remember the conditioning drill?), and a weenie last preseason too --
be better for him if the league was just year round.

But Westphal also seems to have developed an unhealthy fascination with the lack of size Geoff has provided him with -- it is a concern no doubt, but nothing that people around the league start benching their starters over.
 
Bricklayer said:
?

The latest blog entry didn't seem to mention that? In fact it did mention that he thinks Sean May is going to start and Hawes is going to be pissed, as he should be.

Maybe it was part of an earlier version?
Click to expand...

Go down to "The Mystery Continues" where it talks about the good practice Hawes had on Monday.
 
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Kevin Martin is the only returning player who should have a guaranteed starting spot this year. Hawes and Thompson have proved very little IMO so far and as far as I'm concerned, if May wants it more and out plays either guy, he should get the start.
 
Merdiesel said:
Kevin Martin is the only returning player who should have a guaranteed starting spot this year. Hawes and Thompson have proved very little IMO so far and as far as I'm concerned, if May wants it more and out plays either guy, he should get the start.
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I don't know about that one.. I think Thompson has deserved a starting spot so far.. Hawes, on the other hand, should stay on the bench until he shows some muscle inside. The Kings have enough perimeter shooters and don't need a center jacking up 3 pointers all game.
 
Vlade4GM said:
Hawes should be starting, there is no question about it.
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Wouldn't that send a bad message to the team? He's been sucking-it-up for a while now, and IMO should show us he deserves the starting spot.

The Kings have a couple energy/hustle/'leave it all on the court' players on the bench, and a center who doesn't even seem to try gets a starting spot? Meh!
 
IDidntDoDat said:
I don't know about that one.. I think Thompson has deserved a starting spot so far.. Hawes, on the other hand, should stay on the bench until he shows some muscle inside. The Kings have enough perimeter shooters and don't need a center jacking up 3 pointers all game.
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Maybe your right. I'm just hard on the guy because I know he will be great someday. I have a feeling that the day he gets the best of Oden is the day he breaks out.
 
King Baller said:
Is Hawes really not a better center than Mays? Or is this a repercussion of Hawes missing SL? Or is too much being read into this and maybe Westphal likes having some talent come off the bench?
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if Westphal figured that he didn't want to start both of our actual bigs, and that either JT or Hawes should come off the bench so that we always had one or the other in the game.

EDIT: Just came across this in another article, which seems to confirm my suspicions.
"When we start Spencer and Jason together, if one of them gets in foul trouble and the other one needs a rest, then we're awfully small," Westphal said.

"If we do it like this, we should be able to at least be big enough at the five spot throughout the course of the game, despite fatigue and injury."
Click to expand...
http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/2278461.html
 
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I agree that none of our starters should be given or entitled to a spot in the starting 5. I think competition is great for a young team, and I also think hawes has been pretty disappointing so far this season. But... sean may is not the answer.

Its not that I'm against the idea of benching Spencer if he isn't playing well, but if your going to replace him with somebody in the starting lineup, that somebody better not be sean may. Even if Spencer isn't playing real well, he's only 21, and you have to let him play through it. he played terribly last preseason, and turned around and had a productive reg season for the most part.

Maybe Westphal is just sending a message to Spencer, which is fine, but Spencer means much more to the future of this franchise than May, either as our starting center or future trade value.
 
VF21 said:
I think WAY too much is being read into this right now... Westphal is trying to find a combination that will work and still leave something to come in off the bench.

I don't think Hawes will be coming off the bench for long, if this is true. I think McHale brought up a very good point when he said that Spencer is only 21 years old and in his third year in the NBA. He's still learning and (what McHale didn't say but clearly implied) he didn't have very good leadership or coaching in his first two years.

I think Westphal is going to be very good for Hawes for the simple reason he's already being pretty clear in what he expects from his players, etc. I've also heard he is not going to publicly criticize or demean his players - anything in that vein will be done in private and kept private, which is the way it should be done IMHO.
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I'm coming in late on this one, so someone may have said this already. But Westphal in an interview about a week ago said that he might stay with Hawes coming off the bench, not because of May being better, but because if he starts both Hawes and Thompson together and one of them or both of them gets into foul trouble, he's screwed. So he felt he could control the situation better by Hawes coming off the bench. I surmised from that, that if the Kings had a legit backup at center, then Hawes would be starting along side Thompson.
 
I'm going to wait to see how he plays in the regular season before I join in on the Hawes bashing. I think he should keep the starting spot, losing the starting spot because of preseason play doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. At the same time it's not a big deal as long as he gets major minutes and is given a chance to earn the starting spot back.
 
Too much emphasis is being put on who starts. Who cares? It's who gets the most mins and who finishes games. If a players starts and plays a total of 12 mins and another player comes off the bench and plays 36 mins, who's the one being given the PT? Who's the one being counted on by the coach?

Hawes is going to get a good 25-35 mins coming off the bench. Plenty of time to develop his game and proves himself.
 
IDidntDoDat said:
I don't know about that one.. I think Thompson has deserved a starting spot so far.. Hawes, on the other hand, should stay on the bench until he shows some muscle inside. The Kings have enough perimeter shooters and don't need a center jacking up 3 pointers all game.
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I think it's naive to believe that Hawes is shooting 3's without the consent of his coach. Not only would he get yanked immediately, but none of the players would be willing to face the wrath of the coach by giving him the ball. Having a big with 3pt range is a legitamate offensive strategy that every coach would use if their bigs had the shot.

As far a Spencer coming off the bench, there is no way May won the job. He's only played 100 minutes including the last 2 starts. May starting in PHO occurred after PW made his 2nd or 3rd reference to the lack of height on the front line in post game interviews. JT continues to lead the team in fouls again this year, and PW is worried that JT will get in foul trouble just as Spencer is do to come out for a rest.

Splitting JT & Spencer is the lesser of 2 evils. Split them and reduce their effectiveness together, or play them together and end up having neither available at the same time. Obviously, PW feels that playing them seperately, is better than having to play May & Brockman or May & Noc at the 4/5.
 
HighTopKicks said:
As far a Spencer coming off the bench, there is no way May won the job. He's only played 100 minutes including the last 2 starts.
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I dont think Paul Westhphaul has the guts to tell spencer that he doesnt have leadership qualities. May has won a national championship- and can relate to other players. From my observations- May has a larger locker room presence than spencer's quite demeanor.

Dont get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with being a quite- lead by example type of guy. But I think this move (to start may) says that the locker room lacks a vocal presence.
 
HighTopKicks said:
I think it's naive to believe that Hawes is shooting 3's without the consent of his coach. Not only would he get yanked immediately, but none of the players would be willing to face the wrath of the coach by giving him the ball. Having a big with 3pt range is a legitamate offensive strategy that every coach would use if their bigs had the shot.
Click to expand...


If a coach thinks putting a 7'1" center on the three point line is a good idea, he should be looking for a new job. Statistically, you are going to have a net loss of points if your center is on the three point line. It is just impossible to make up the difference. Having your big man shoot threes takes one rebounder away from a situation where the defense is already at an advantage. Post shots go in at a much higher percentage than threes do.You lose double because of the missed offense rebounds as well as the lower percentage shots. Not to mention having your center on the outside means that either the SF or one of the guards is out of position so there is one less guy to defend the break since no center is fast enough to keep up with a guard. Duncan, Shaq, Howard, Gasol play inside out and they win because of it. The only big guys with that range I can think of are Garnett, who is a defensive freak to make up for it and really shouldn't be taking that shot anyway, and Nowitski, who has never gotten above ten boards a game. Needless to say, Spencer need to put on some more muscle and get in the post for awhile before he even thinks about adding range to his game. He should be working on defensive position, passing out of double teams, rebounding, etc. These are the skills he needs to be an elite center. If we ever want to be a contending team with his on the roster, that is what he needs to work on.
 
h3kafr3sh said:
I dont think Paul Westhphaul has the guts to tell spencer that he doesnt have leadership qualities. May has won a national championship- and can relate to other players. From my observations- May has a larger locker room presence than spencer's quite demeanor.

Dont get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with being a quite- lead by example type of guy. But I think this move (to start may) says that the locker room lacks a vocal presence.
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How do you know for sure that Spencer doesn't have leadership qualities? If your knock on him is that he didn't win a national championship, that arguement won't last too long because that nagates 90% of the players in the league right now.

I think Spencer does have some leadership qualities, and we will see more of it as he matures. I highly doubt leadership has anything to do with him not starting. He has been disappointing all preseason, and JT's improvement makes Spencer look like he really had an unproductive summer. And Spencer isn't a quite guy. He is one of the most opinionated guys on the team, and I think is pretty vocal for his age.

The lack of a vocal presence in the locker room has nothing to do with May starting. Putting May in the starting lineup wouldn't solve that problem.
 
h3kafr3sh said:
I dont think Paul Westhphaul has the guts to tell spencer that he doesnt have leadership qualities. May has won a national championship- and can relate to other players. From my observations- May has a larger locker room presence than spencer's quite demeanor.

Dont get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with being a quite- lead by example type of guy. But I think this move (to start may) says that the locker room lacks a vocal presence.
Click to expand...

Quiet demeanor????? Spencer Hawes is not a quiet kinda guy. He's outspoken, he's opinionated, he's passionate about the game, and he's not afraid to tell someone if he thinks they've messed up.

I'm guessing you didn't see many games last year or you'd know that Hawes has the passion of youth on his side and he really gets into the game, showing at times perhaps a little too much passion.
 
I think letting your C shoot from behind the arc is allowable on a team if:
1.) Your C can shoot a good percentage from that range.
2.) The rest of your roster can rebound or at least challenge for a rebound against the man guarding him.
3.) If he only shoots while drawing the opponents C to the perimeter.


Point #1 is sometimes true on Spencer if he is in the rhythm.

Point #2 can be true on this team if you have Evans at PG (he can out rebound any PG in the league, me thinks) Thompson at PF (the guy has the nose for offensive rebounding and a lot of tip-ins). But our SG and SF spot is still a big challenge on the rebounding area.

Point #3 I still have to see a full Kings game for this season to judge him on this.
 
VF21 said:
Quiet demeanor????? Spencer Hawes is not a quiet kinda guy. He's outspoken, he's opinionated, he's passionate about the game, and he's not afraid to tell someone if he thinks they've messed up.

I'm guessing you didn't see many games last year or you'd know that Hawes has the passion of youth on his side and he really gets into the game, showing at times perhaps a little too much passion.
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so you see hawes having that locker room leadership? i havent seen much kings games... but what does he do?

i agree with you on the fact that he is opinionated.
 
Oh Spencer is opinionated all right, but that's not necessarily the same thing as being a leader. In fact in his case its often been exactly the opposite, as he has come across as that loudmouth know it all guy that is irritating and nobody listens to. Because he was vocal and at times looked very competitive I have in the past tagged him as a potential leader, but he's got a long way to go. Being loud and foolish and stubborn, and not backing it up on the court, is more likely to earn disdain than followers. Best you can say right now is that he might have leadership potential, in the way a laid back guy like Brad Miller never could.
 
Aenadin said:
so you see hawes having that locker room leadership? i havent seen much kings games... but what does he do?

i agree with you on the fact that he is opinionated.
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I don't see it yet, but Hawes is only 21 and seems a somewhat immature 21 at that. (Like a lot of young men I've known.) Its quite possible that he could become a leader. He's still got time to mature.

And what exactly has Sean May done to prove he has any more leadership skills than Hawes? He's older and he had to work things out after not being so successful in the NBA. He's had time to mature, so give Hawes the same chance. But I haven't seen or heard a thing that indicates May's being seen as a leader on this Kings's team.

I can see what PW is worried about. Both Hawes and Thompson are foul prone. Until they improve in that area, the Kings will have a problem up front if JT or Hawes is in foul trouble and the other needs a rest. He wants to be able to have two of the three on the floor as much as possible. In that sense, I'm not sure its correct to say that Mays is "replacing" Hawes. I suspect that when May is in with JT, its JT who will move over to center.
 
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