to stop jacking up so many 3 pt shots. Maybe it's just me but the guy is 1 for 14 this season and a career 30% shooter from beyond the arc. He's been a horse on defense but I can hardly stand it everytime he touches the ball because I know he's going to shoot a 3 or take another horrible shot. Why isn't he posting up more?
Can Somebody Please tell Artest.....
- Thread starter uopmatt
- Start date
That's the thing about Artest -- you never really know if he knows. I'm sure he has everybody on the team and the coaching staff telling him to take better shots, but then he will say something to the newspaper about how people don't tell Kobe not to shoot so much. Does he understand that he is not Kobe? I'm not sure.
This team is never going to win with Artest taking 18 shots a game and shooting less than 40% (let alone less than 30%). He could really shoot this team straight ot a losing record. And it's not a new trend -- last season was really ugly offensively, but we were all so excited about his defense that we ignored it.
Musselman's first real challenge of the young season is getting through to Artest. He simply has to.
This team is never going to win with Artest taking 18 shots a game and shooting less than 40% (let alone less than 30%). He could really shoot this team straight ot a losing record. And it's not a new trend -- last season was really ugly offensively, but we were all so excited about his defense that we ignored it.
Musselman's first real challenge of the young season is getting through to Artest. He simply has to.
It really wasn't that long ago. And besides, it's not like Ron has changed his mindset since he made the quote. He's still taking shots like he is Kobe.
Ron should be the third or fourth option on this team behind Martin, Bibby and possibly Abdur-Rahim. Right now he's taking 17.7 shots to Bibby's 15.3, Martin's 14.7 and SAR's 8.0. It's a problem.
Ron should be the third or fourth option on this team behind Martin, Bibby and possibly Abdur-Rahim. Right now he's taking 17.7 shots to Bibby's 15.3, Martin's 14.7 and SAR's 8.0. It's a problem.
What you have to ask is whether he should be our second option on offense.
If we had a low post player, I'd agree. But, our first option is our perimeter guard. Our second option is a perimeter guy that is better suited inside, but doesn't do it.
So, basically, our first and second option don't take shots inside 12 feet.
That doesn't bode well.
If we had a low post player, I'd agree. But, our first option is our perimeter guard. Our second option is a perimeter guy that is better suited inside, but doesn't do it.
So, basically, our first and second option don't take shots inside 12 feet.
That doesn't bode well.
Right now, with Brad possibly out for a indeterminate period of time, Artest is going to continue to be an integral part of the offense. I would love to see Kevin get more shots; and I think he will as the team gets to know the plays Muss intends for them to run.
This isn't a polished team yet, guys. You're gonna have to live through some ugly before you get to the kind of offense we've been used to seeing.
Some people around here are always so blasted quick to point a finger of blame at someone if they have a couple of bad nights. Artest may have taken a lot of shots but it was ARTEST who kept us within range to even be able to pull the rabbit out of the hat in Chicago.
Should Artest be our second option? Probably not. Will he be our second option down the road? Not a clue. Am I going to lose any sleep over it at this point? Nope.
As far as Artest being fourth option behind SAR, I personally think that's silly.
This isn't a polished team yet, guys. You're gonna have to live through some ugly before you get to the kind of offense we've been used to seeing.
Some people around here are always so blasted quick to point a finger of blame at someone if they have a couple of bad nights. Artest may have taken a lot of shots but it was ARTEST who kept us within range to even be able to pull the rabbit out of the hat in Chicago.
Should Artest be our second option? Probably not. Will he be our second option down the road? Not a clue. Am I going to lose any sleep over it at this point? Nope.
As far as Artest being fourth option behind SAR, I personally think that's silly.
I think Ron thinks he is our first option, and may well in fact be. He will NEVER be a 3rd or 4th option without open rebellion. And that was always a major question with Ron -- he rebelled in Indiana because he wanted to be a #1 option and be given freedom to be Kobe, TMac, whoever. But he's never had those kinds of skills. So you get yourself into a real pickle because you desperately need his defense + presence -- he is simply your best basketball player. But along with the package comes a guy who is almost calculatingly undisciplined on offense. Now Rick let Ron have the run of the place, but there was still some sense of the taming of the beast going on. He took dumb shots sometimes, but rarely hosited 20 of them. But now you've got a new, young coach, and a coach who damaged himself in the preseason with the DUI, and you are losing, and it really makes controlling the situation tough. Muss needs to get through to him, but his doesn't have the age, stature, or proven winning track record to be able to chide Ron in father figure type fashion.
Actually think that this is one of the reasons using the a nice Arco stretch to inflate our win total here a bit becomes doubly important. Muss needs to get/keep people buying in. And wins will have a tendency to do that. If we were to struggle, everyone end up frustrated and defensive, have a losing record, then it makes trying to control Ron without setting up an adversarial thing even more difficult. And while its not an intentional thing (I don't think at least) Ron's reputation for wild behavior in the past is actually kind of a shield for him -- you are scared of the results if you just go up to him and tell him how it is. You have to tiptoe and tailor your message, because we've all seen how wrong it can go in Ron's case if he tunes you out. In fact maybe the only way Muss really gets himself fired before a couple of years have run off is if he loses Ron, and likely the team right behind him.
Actually think that this is one of the reasons using the a nice Arco stretch to inflate our win total here a bit becomes doubly important. Muss needs to get/keep people buying in. And wins will have a tendency to do that. If we were to struggle, everyone end up frustrated and defensive, have a losing record, then it makes trying to control Ron without setting up an adversarial thing even more difficult. And while its not an intentional thing (I don't think at least) Ron's reputation for wild behavior in the past is actually kind of a shield for him -- you are scared of the results if you just go up to him and tell him how it is. You have to tiptoe and tailor your message, because we've all seen how wrong it can go in Ron's case if he tunes you out. In fact maybe the only way Muss really gets himself fired before a couple of years have run off is if he loses Ron, and likely the team right behind him.
It's not a couple of bad nights. This is a trend that has picked up since last season. He was abysmal from the field last year, but it was okay ... he was rusty. Give him the benefit of the doubt and move on.
I always felt he was never the offensive genius others did, but I was willing to eat crow on it. In fact, I'd love to.
But, this year it's worse than ever ... and it's only increasing.
SAR (or some post player or players) should be our second option (or even primary) right now. We're too perimeter oriented and teams can easily defend that. Our coach doesn't seem concerned with that, our fans don't seem concerned and our management doesn't seem concerned. But, we'll never get anywhere with jack-a-shot.
The person (or persons), whoever it is, in the post doesn't need the most shots. They need to have the offense roll through them for a good percentage of our sets. It opens things up on the perimeter. Guess what good perimeter shooting does for perimeter shooting? Nothing.
If Artest was taking 20 shots through the offense, I wouldn't care. It's that it isn't and the shots are forced. If Artest is that player in the post, than so be it. But, right now we're being exposed and our only true strengths lie in Bibby/Miller's OPEN shots, Martin's quick step and SAR/Test's low post abilities. The low post is the only thing that directly opens up the former two things.
No one on our team is a true playmaker for other players on the floor, in the traditional sense. Miller can make passes to cutters, but that's it. Bibby is usually looking for his own shot. Martin doesn't see the floor well. KT doesn't hold the ball well. Artest doesn't dribble well enough. SAR isn't a great passer.
So, using the post negates a lot of those issues. You put SAR/Artest on the post and they can score. From that, teams will double and then our inability to truly create will be less exposed.
I always felt he was never the offensive genius others did, but I was willing to eat crow on it. In fact, I'd love to.
But, this year it's worse than ever ... and it's only increasing.
SAR (or some post player or players) should be our second option (or even primary) right now. We're too perimeter oriented and teams can easily defend that. Our coach doesn't seem concerned with that, our fans don't seem concerned and our management doesn't seem concerned. But, we'll never get anywhere with jack-a-shot.
The person (or persons), whoever it is, in the post doesn't need the most shots. They need to have the offense roll through them for a good percentage of our sets. It opens things up on the perimeter. Guess what good perimeter shooting does for perimeter shooting? Nothing.
If Artest was taking 20 shots through the offense, I wouldn't care. It's that it isn't and the shots are forced. If Artest is that player in the post, than so be it. But, right now we're being exposed and our only true strengths lie in Bibby/Miller's OPEN shots, Martin's quick step and SAR/Test's low post abilities. The low post is the only thing that directly opens up the former two things.
No one on our team is a true playmaker for other players on the floor, in the traditional sense. Miller can make passes to cutters, but that's it. Bibby is usually looking for his own shot. Martin doesn't see the floor well. KT doesn't hold the ball well. Artest doesn't dribble well enough. SAR isn't a great passer.
So, using the post negates a lot of those issues. You put SAR/Artest on the post and they can score. From that, teams will double and then our inability to truly create will be less exposed.
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I think you make very good points, but I think that there is a certain degree of nervousness because Artest has not been very good on offense since he came to Sacramento and takes a disproportionately high number of shots. People were willing to forgive his offense last year because he had sat out for so long and we all just assumed he was rusty. He shot 38% while with the Kings -- not good. But now you have to wonder if this is a trend.
So I guess what I'm saying is that if it were just a matter of a couple of off nights that would be one thing, but for the last half season, the preseason and the first three games Artest has been taking way too many shots and not making a healthy percentage. It's not just a blip, I think it's something to be legitimately concerned about.
PS: Um, Roman beat me to pretty much everything. Also I agree with everything Bricklayer said.
So I guess what I'm saying is that if it were just a matter of a couple of off nights that would be one thing, but for the last half season, the preseason and the first three games Artest has been taking way too many shots and not making a healthy percentage. It's not just a blip, I think it's something to be legitimately concerned about.
PS: Um, Roman beat me to pretty much everything. Also I agree with everything Bricklayer said.
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Agree compltely. And see, this is why I have such a sneaking, scary nervousness about whether or not Ron can be the key cog on a contender. He just is not good enough to be the primary option, and he is going to get his way until there is someone who can get him to set aside his offense. I think the only way it could work is if he were the Dennis Rodman to someone's Michael Jordan. He may need to play with a serious no-holds-barred alpha dog like Kevin Garnett (not a relative pushover like Jermaine O'Neal) or a Phil Jackson/pre-Knicks Larry Brown coach in order to buy into a system that keeps all of his defense and toughness but without killing the team on offense.
(insert fantastical Kevin Garnett trade here)
(insert fantastical Kevin Garnett trade here)
Different offense, different defense, different starters, different coach. Same player...right?
This cannot be what Muss intended. It appears that he does not have complete control over the situation. But I wouldn't read too much into it. We all knew Muss had his hands full since he was hired. I for one did not expect him to have complete control of the situation from the get-go. Give it more time.
This cannot be what Muss intended. It appears that he does not have complete control over the situation. But I wouldn't read too much into it. We all knew Muss had his hands full since he was hired. I for one did not expect him to have complete control of the situation from the get-go. Give it more time.
he has never been a good shooter beyond the arc but look at his FG % when he was in indiana
always more than 41% http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ron_artest/career_stats.html
it's unfair to say he has no offensive game
but for sure he can't score over 20ppg for an entire season, he has to be more agressive to the rim
right now we're not seeing the real RonRon (except for the steals ! 5 in 25minutes against the bucks wow!)
always more than 41% http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ron_artest/career_stats.html
it's unfair to say he has no offensive game
but for sure he can't score over 20ppg for an entire season, he has to be more agressive to the rim
right now we're not seeing the real RonRon (except for the steals ! 5 in 25minutes against the bucks wow!)
He's effective downlow, not near 3 point range, he needs to do what works, when he's down there he's so strong he can muscle in for the basket or draw a foul...then there's the double team where he can find someone who is open and can shoot.
much better options than to jack up a three or a long two, play to your strengths.
much better options than to jack up a three or a long two, play to your strengths.
Artest
He is effective with some semblance of a low-post game from somebody else (B Wells). Without that, teams try to gang up on him and prevent him from getting to the paint. He still gets there and scores but with much greater difficulty. With a low-post game from somebody else, they draw the double coverage , leving Artest open for the layup. He soesn't get those anymore, resulting in a slumping shooting percentage
He is effective with some semblance of a low-post game from somebody else (B Wells). Without that, teams try to gang up on him and prevent him from getting to the paint. He still gets there and scores but with much greater difficulty. With a low-post game from somebody else, they draw the double coverage , leving Artest open for the layup. He soesn't get those anymore, resulting in a slumping shooting percentage
When he was in Indiana, he was never asked to score like a champ. He didn't play outside of the offense (or his own skillset) like he has here.
He's trying to be all-world and he's never played that way. That's why he was always has a better FG%. It's called shot selection and I think he forgot about it on the plane ride over to Sac-town.
He's trying to be all-world and he's never played that way. That's why he was always has a better FG%. It's called shot selection and I think he forgot about it on the plane ride over to Sac-town.
I sincerely doubt he'd shoot over 50%. That is EXTREMELY doubtful.
He might shoot higher 40% like 46-47%, but over 50%? Nah. He just doesn't have the talent and he's not big enough to score in the paint once a team adjusts.
Artest isn't a great dribbler nor does he see the floor well. He doesn't possess some brevy of post moves either. Hard to shoot over 50% when you're a volume shooter and don't have the ability to create separation and create your own looks.
He might shoot higher 40% like 46-47%, but over 50%? Nah. He just doesn't have the talent and he's not big enough to score in the paint once a team adjusts.
Artest isn't a great dribbler nor does he see the floor well. He doesn't possess some brevy of post moves either. Hard to shoot over 50% when you're a volume shooter and don't have the ability to create separation and create your own looks.