[Game] California Classic 2023, Day 1 (7/3/2023): Kings vs. Warriors 7pm Pacific, 10pm Eastern

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Keegan breaking out and becoming our third star precisely means that he fills the hole at 3. This means going out and signing a star SF would have be shooting (forward) yourself in the foot and hamstringing your roster building capacity going (shooting) forward.

Wing defense is being addressed by Edwards and through the draft... and anyways signing a backup defensive SF should not have been the reason to not sign HB or Lyles.

We agree interior defense remains an issue to be addressed. We have Len for now. It's about priorities.
Keegan breaking out and being a great scorer does nothing to align with defense on the wing. Keegan has great body control and eye hand coordination. He does not have great lateral quickness which is why you saw him give up straight line drives repeatedly last night.

wing defense may be addressed by Edwards and could have been addressed via the draft but was not.

as for interior defense I liked what I saw from Neemi more than Edwards. 0-7 from 3 does not inspire confidence Edwards can play his role. Hopefully we will get to see if Neemi can shoot a 3.
 
Keegan breaking out and being a great scorer does nothing to align with defense on the wing. Keegan has great body control and eye hand coordination. He does not have great lateral quickness which is why you saw him give up straight line drives repeatedly last night.

wing defense may be addressed by Edwards and could have been addressed via the draft but was not.

as for interior defense I liked what I saw from Neemi more than Edwards. 0-7 from 3 does not inspire confidence Edwards can play his role.
Ok my friend with all due respect I have lost the logic of your line of thinking. You were lamenting this offseason because we didn't sign a third star. Now after one SL game Keegan appears to be in the middle of taking "the leap" and you now move the goalposts saying it was really about defense? So let me get this straight, Keegan not being all NBA defense, but yes being a third star, means he doesn't "fill the hole" at SF.... which, apparently according to you is merely a defensive hole, but yes this could be addressed by Edwards, but that's bad too because Edwards isn't a great three point shooter (yet)???


That's just one too many mental twists for me to work my brain into.
 
Keegan being good, Jones being good and this summer being a missed opportunity are not mutually exclusive. Been a huge Keegan fan and think he will be great but that doesn’t mean he fills the hole at 3 and D defensive stopper.
I’m sure you’ve gone into more details in other posts so forgive me for missing it, but can you go into a bit more detail about the opportunity that was missed this summer?
 
Simone compared Keegan to Kawahi and I can’t I hear it.
Not saying this isn't ridiculous, but this is exactly why you don't trade dudes who are coming off the rookie year Keegan just had. All-Star wings pretty much all go through the same learning curve; quality role player their first few years, they learn an on-ball game and just totally explode at some point. You just have to see that development through.
 
I’m sure you’ve gone into more details in other posts so forgive me for missing it, but can you go into a bit more detail about the opportunity that was missed this summer?
Let me sum it up for you.



Not drafting Prosper and instead trading the pick and Holmes for salary cap space which certainly pointed to Vivek being cheap and trying to save money.

TL; DR- Vivek was not being cheap.
 
Colby Jones looked pretty good yesterday. He’s definitely not a point guard. But he’s a good prospect to be a rotational piece one day who can amplify the strengths of his teammates.

Got to work on those free throws, though.
 
Colby Jones looked pretty good yesterday. He’s definitely not a point guard. But he’s a good prospect to be a rotational piece one day who can amplify the strengths of his teammates.

Got to work on those free throws, though.
Colby did look good, but he will need to put on some muscle and weight if he’s going to be able to swing between SG/SF. He’s too skinny to defend the SF at this point
 
Keegan breaking out and being a great scorer does nothing to align with defense on the wing. Keegan has great body control and eye hand coordination. He does not have great lateral quickness which is why you saw him give up straight line drives repeatedly last night.

wing defense may be addressed by Edwards and could have been addressed via the draft but was not.

as for interior defense I liked what I saw from Neemi more than Edwards. 0-7 from 3 does not inspire confidence Edwards can play his role.
Ok my friend with all due respect I have lost the logic of your line of thinking. You were lamenting this offseason because we didn't sign a third star. Now after one SL game Keegan appears to be in the middle of taking "the leap" and you now move the goalposts saying it was really about defense? So let me get this straight, Keegan not being all NBA defense, but yes being a third star, means he doesn't "fill the hole" at SF.... which, apparently according to you is merely a defensive hole, but yes this could be addressed by Edwards, but that's bad too because Edwards isn't a great three point shooter (yet)???


That's just one too many mental twists for me to work my brain into.
Your lost line of thinking was I me lamenting we did not get that stopper 3 and D wing that can slow down the best offensive wings on the other team…….. I never said anything about a 3rd star… Great players can hit shots on the move and coming off screens like Keegan does. They can create shots for others. I think Keegan will get there also but he isn’t a defensive stopper.

a very good 3&D catch and shoot forward hits around 40% on C&S threes. They are not creating offense but you can’t leave them. OG as an example hits 40.6 of his 3’s. Wiggins is 42.5. If you have one of these guys they aren’t a star but you have a key piece to a championship team. If we had a guy like these guys on our team we would be a contender.

A good 3 and D catch and shoot guy to be average needs to be high 35 to low 36% on C&S 3’s. In this range you see guys like Dillon Brooks, Tari Eason, Thybulle and Jaren Jackson. Not great shooters but good enough given their defense and you can live with the percentage. These guys are not stars but are key role players on winning teams. In my opinion OMax could have been one of these guys with potential to be the next tier up. If we were going to trade the pick we had to sign a guy at least on this level. We did not.

Kessler Edwards at 32.1 on C&S 3’s is significantly below average. He becomes a player other teams can just ignore…. In fact, they will leave him and play 5 versus 4 defense daring him to shoot. What you get on defense you lose on offense. I love Kessler’s D but if he can’t increase his C&S percentage he isn’t playable in the play-offs.

Now can Kessler get to 36% which is Barnes level with much better defense. I hope he can. Shooting 0-7 from 3 was not a good start. You aren’t signing one as a free agent at the mid-level exception and we have no 1st round pick next year. This year was the chance to close that hole and Monte failed.
 
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Just as most of us expected, Keegan is really freaking good, and the FO is trying to hammer that in on him. Even his teammates see it and that’s why Fox has been trying to work with him all summer.

Im expecting a big year 2 jump. I hope he gets the same calls in the regular season. It rewards him for being aggressive and attacking
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
The improvement I wanted to see from Keegan in the off-season was to increase his overall aggression in his game. He didn't disappoint last night. I'm hoping next year he can get 18+ points per game with the same shooting percentages as last year. I also want to see him improve his rebounding in the regular season. If he's reminded to do it (by Brown) he does it, but if he's not then he seems to drift into passivity. Again, his mantra must be aggression, aggression, aggression.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Considering the huge jump Keegan made from year 1 to year 2 in college, I'm expecting fireworks next season:

Code:
Season    School    Conf  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  2P  2PA  2P%  3P 3PA  3P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF   PTS   SOS
2020-21     Iowa Big Ten 31  4 18.0 2.7  5.4 .506 2.2  3.6 .607 0.5 1.7 .296 1.3 1.7 .755 1.6 3.5 5.1 0.5 0.8 1.3 0.6 1.9   7.2 10.43
2021-22     Iowa Big Ten 35 35 31.9 8.8 15.8 .554 6.9 11.1 .621 1.9 4.7 .398 4.1 5.4 .747 2.9 5.8 8.7 1.5 1.3 1.9 1.1 1.9  23.5  6.87
Career              Iowa 66 39 25.4 5.9 10.9 .543 4.7  7.6 .618 1.2 3.3 .373 2.8 3.7 .749 2.3 4.7 7.0 1.0 1.1 1.6 0.9 1.9  15.8  8.65
Provided by CBB at Sports Reference: View Original Table
Generated 7/4/2023.
 
The improvement I wanted to see from Keegan in the off-season was to increase his overall aggression in his game. He didn't disappoint last night. I'm hoping next year he can get 18+ points per game with the same shooting percentages as last year. I also want to see him improve his rebounding in the regular season. If he's reminded to do it (by Brown) he does it, but if he's not then he seems to drift into passivity. Again, his mantra must be aggression, aggression, aggression.
this is why I was confused by Monte going after Kuzma (or any other guy who would expect a top 2/3 offensive role. If the rumors are true that Kuzma turned Sac down due to the role he was offered he must have been told he would be 4th in the pecking order.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer

Figured this was the case, but pretty sure dad confirming he's only playing the Cali Classic makes it true.
I had to like this post because I know logically it's not best for Keegan or the team for him to put in long min in ssummer league and risk injury, but damn I wanted to see him play in Vegas and for the Kings to get another Summer League championship.
 
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I would be more impress if Keegan play solid defense and help with the rebounding than anything else. We all know he can knock down shots. We all know he can drive to the basket. But now he's just focusing a bit more on dribbling and driving which is great. However, his defense and rebounding should be the main focus in the summer imo. He has the tool...the length to rebound...just need lock down the fundamental. Every time the ball is in the air, his job is look behind and start boxing out. He should work on his defensive mentality...which is anticipation and instinct....so far I have not seen that in 1 game. Why does he need to work on those aspect of his game? Because that's the Kings team weakness. When you allow your man to attack the basket because you forgot to guard, you're essentially part of the reason why the team has weak team defense because you're creating a leak in a pipe and the leak turn into bigger leak and then a flood...then it becomes hard to drain the water. Not being dramatic...but that's the truth.
 
I would be more impress if Keegan play solid defense and help with the rebounding than anything else. We all know he can knock down shots. We all know he can drive to the basket. But now he's just focusing a bit more on dribbling and driving which is great. However, his defense and rebounding should be the main focus in the summer imo. He has the tool...the length to rebound...just need lock down the fundamental. Every time the ball is in the air, his job is look behind and start boxing out. He should work on his defensive mentality...which is anticipation and instinct....so far I have not seen that in 1 game. Why does he need to work on those aspect of his game? Because that's the Kings team weakness. When you allow your man to attack the basket because you forgot to guard, you're essentially part of the reason why the team has weak team defense because you're creating a leak in a pipe and the leak turn into bigger leak and then a flood...then it becomes hard to drain the water. Not being dramatic...but that's the truth.
did you just mention defense and summer league in the same sentence?
 
Keegan breaking out and becoming our third star precisely means that he fills the hole at 3. This means going out and signing a star SF would have be shooting (forward) yourself in the foot and hamstringing your roster building capacity going (shooting) forward.

Wing defense is being addressed by Edwards and through the draft... and anyways signing a backup defensive SF should not have been the reason to not sign HB or Lyles.

We agree interior defense remains an issue to be addressed. We have Len for now. It's about priorities.
No it wouldn't though. Keegan plays a position where you can very easily stack talent. The F spot is basically one that is totally interchangeable these days and Domas is essentially the teams Chris Paul on offense. Keegan can surely become the player we saw at Iowa, and while these steps towards greatness are a great thing, let not be putting this Kawhi stuff into the air just yet haha. Pressure is certainly going to be on the dude now and that's the path Monte is going down so big boy pants on and Brown needs to give Keegan some serious rope next season to work. Keegan needs at least the same leeway Barnes got last year. No more missed defensive assignments and to the bench unless the game really matters.

We will now truly see who Keegan is because he for better or worse he will have legit internal competition between Sasha, Lyles, Edwards, maybe Jones, and Barnes. Somebody is getting their feelings hurt this year lol.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
Regarding Keegan on D and rebounding, the staff has him on guards right now, including PGs. They are putting him into position to expand his game. He’s going to get beat a lot. He also was able to do a good job a few times as well. And I’m not sure he was in position to rebound if he’s closing out on guys. Thought he was good in team D though
 
Your lost line of thinking was I me lamenting we did not get that stopper 3 and D wing that can slow down the best offensive wings on the other team…….. I never said anything about a 3rd star… Great players can hit shots on the move and coming off screens like Keegan does. They can create shots for others. I think Keegan will get there also but he isn’t a defensive stopper.

a very good 3&D catch and shoot forward hits around 40% on C&S threes. They are not creating offense but you can’t leave them. OG as an example hits 40.6 of his 3’s. Wiggins is 42.5. If you have one of these guys they aren’t a star but you have a key piece to a championship team. If we had a guy like these guys on our team we would be a contender.

A good 3 and D catch and shoot guy to be average needs to be high 35 to low 36% on C&S 3’s. In this range you see guys like Dillon Brooks, Tari Eason, Thybulle and Jaren Jackson. Not great shooters but good enough given their defense and you can live with the percentage. These guys are not stars but are key role players on winning teams. In my opinion OMax could have been one of these guys with potential to be the next tier up. If we were going to trade the pick we had to sign a guy at least on this level. We did not.

Kessler Edwards at 32.1 on C&S 3’s is significantly below average. He becomes a player other teams can just ignore…. In fact, they will leave him and play 5 versus 4 defense daring him to shoot. What you get on defense you lose on offense. I love Kessler’s D but if he can’t increase his C&S percentage he isn’t playable in the play-offs.

Now can Kessler get to 36% which is Barnes level with much better defense. I hope he can. Shooting 0-7 from 3 was not a good start. You aren’t signing one as a free agent at the mid-level exception and we have no 1st round pick next year. This year was the chance to close that hole and Monte failed.
but if you look at overall 3pt shooting (not just catch and shoot) your argument falls apart. Wiggins career average is 35% and last year he shot a career high 39.5%

OG is 37.5% career and shot a career high 39% last year.

Dillon Brooks, your guy, is 34% career and 32.5% last year.

Eason played one year. He shot 34%.

Thuybulle is 33% for his career, though he did shoot 36% last year.

And poor Kessler is better than you give him credit. He has a career average of 34% and shot 35% after the trade to Sac. Those numbers need to improve, but are already better than Brooks and Eason, better than all but a half season of Thuybulle, and 2.5% off of OG’s career numbers.

But the funniest part of your analysis for Kessler. He has played so little that he is truly small sample size biased. His career totals are 65/191. With so few attempts, if he had literally made 5 more threes he would be a career 37% shooter, not 34%. So you are arguing that he isn’t/can’t/won’t be OG on the statistical basis of 5 threes.

How about we let the guy keep developing before we write him off or cap what he can be? The one common thread for all these players is that they all shot better last season than their career numbers. Put differently, they are all getting better. But that is your common refrain- everyone else’s players can get better, but ours are capped out.
 
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He's quoting catch-and-shoot 3PT stats, not overall 3PT stats
Thanks for pointing out my error. I edited my post to be less inflammatory, though I stand by my overall point Kessler is not that far off any of the guys he talks about as an overall three point shooter, and is already better than brooks.
 
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