C/PF off season discussion
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Lmao.
He doesn't take advantage of everything he actually DOES have. He'd easily be a $100 million player if he committed himself to being a super-charged version of Capela/Tyson Chandler, etc. But he obviously has no interest in doing so as he's shown in his play and his comments over the years. Those dudes became vital foundational pieces to championship contenders because they committed to being defensive anchors, rebounding the ball and only taking highly efficient, positive outcome shots on offense.
I'm out. Thought maybe I'd be interested if we could get him back $10mil or lower, but nah. We should be committing to our 2 foundation pieces in Harry and Marvin and building a bigs rotation around them, rather than trying to keep fitting WCS into the picture. Commit to Harry starting next season, even if that only means 25 MPG, and go get 1 of the absolute plethora of quality bigs who fit this team like a glove. Just so many different options we can spend the money we'd pay him that would make us a much better team going forward.
He doesn't take advantage of everything he actually DOES have. He'd easily be a $100 million player if he committed himself to being a super-charged version of Capela/Tyson Chandler, etc. But he obviously has no interest in doing so as he's shown in his play and his comments over the years. Those dudes became vital foundational pieces to championship contenders because they committed to being defensive anchors, rebounding the ball and only taking highly efficient, positive outcome shots on offense.
I'm out. Thought maybe I'd be interested if we could get him back $10mil or lower, but nah. We should be committing to our 2 foundation pieces in Harry and Marvin and building a bigs rotation around them, rather than trying to keep fitting WCS into the picture. Commit to Harry starting next season, even if that only means 25 MPG, and go get 1 of the absolute plethora of quality bigs who fit this team like a glove. Just so many different options we can spend the money we'd pay him that would make us a much better team going forward.
Extend WCS... Let them play next year and see if we see the kind of improvement we saw this year. Start Bagley III next to him as PW. Keep Barnes, and start him at SF, with Hield, and Fox that's one of the best starting lineups in the league, and if they were firing on all cylinders then there is no team in the league we cannot beat.
I will Confidently say, not 1
Playoff team will pay WCS nowhere near 4/70. In addition, all of them would not waste their time for over 10-12 mil.
Now, if you’re raking bottom feeder teams that have pee poor FO’s he may entertain a little higher.
If the Kings FO are dumb enough to offer him 4/70, the team will continue to be the laughing stock of the NBA.
Playoff team will pay WCS nowhere near 4/70. In addition, all of them would not waste their time for over 10-12 mil.
Now, if you’re raking bottom feeder teams that have pee poor FO’s he may entertain a little higher.
If the Kings FO are dumb enough to offer him 4/70, the team will continue to be the laughing stock of the NBA.
This would be my biggest concern in bringing him back. From an outside seat WCS gives the vibe he would be a malcontent if put on the bench and try to force a trade to a place that would appreciate and utilize his plethora of (unseen) talents
When he doesnt get the big contract he expects he will blame the kings for not giving him the "opportunity" like they did for Bagley or Knicks did for Porz. He believes the only reason he isnt a superstar offensive player is due to lack of being the go to player. So he will have a grudge against the kings for that, then it will be a double whammy as he gets pushed to the bench in favor of bagley and giles.
When he doesnt get the big contract he expects he will blame the kings for not giving him the "opportunity" like they did for Bagley or Knicks did for Porz. He believes the only reason he isnt a superstar offensive player is due to lack of being the go to player. So he will have a grudge against the kings for that, then it will be a double whammy as he gets pushed to the bench in favor of bagley and giles.
This is where I think Vlade needs to shape the roster in a way that force Joeger to start Bagley next year.
I think a lot of Joeger's refusal to start Bagley was because WCS and Bagley games don't mesh in a run and gun team. WCS total lack of a 3 point shot prevents Joeger from inserting Bagley into the starting line up. Since Bagley's 3 point game is still evloving and WCS is non-existent, Joeger goes with WCS because of experience and defense.
To get Bagley into the starting line up next year, the Kings need to get a legitimate stretch 4 or 5 to start opposite Bagley. The ones I think the Kings have a legitimate chance of getting in the summer is Brook Lopez (Stretch 5) or Nikola Miortic (Stretch 4). Lopez would be most ideal because he is also a rim protector and is a Central California (Fresno) guy.
I think a lot of Joeger's refusal to start Bagley was because WCS and Bagley games don't mesh in a run and gun team. WCS total lack of a 3 point shot prevents Joeger from inserting Bagley into the starting line up. Since Bagley's 3 point game is still evloving and WCS is non-existent, Joeger goes with WCS because of experience and defense.
To get Bagley into the starting line up next year, the Kings need to get a legitimate stretch 4 or 5 to start opposite Bagley. The ones I think the Kings have a legitimate chance of getting in the summer is Brook Lopez (Stretch 5) or Nikola Miortic (Stretch 4). Lopez would be most ideal because he is also a rim protector and is a Central California (Fresno) guy.
Ok I decided to take a look at a few shooting charts for spacing, assuming Bagley starts next season, and Giles plays a decent amount of minutes too.
Here is Bagley's
As you can see heavy use in the key, also being a lefty, (an advantage on the block on one side too but low volume)
So for spacing purposes the left side of the chart beyond 3, same side elbow would be a good place to have our other big.
Now take a loot at Vucevic shot chart.
He is hot right where we want him at 3 pt depth to maximize spacing.
Take a look at Bjelica now
Also fantastic on that side of the floor.
Now when you look at Harry, who is a dangerous passer, he's not very efficient unless close to the basket.
So to me, Vucevic offensively looks to be the perfect balance with our bigs offensively. Not to mention a good rebounder.
Develop Swan or draft a bruiser second round to fill out roster or in case we need a brute for a couple of minutes vs Cousins or something like that.
Here is Bagley's
As you can see heavy use in the key, also being a lefty, (an advantage on the block on one side too but low volume)
So for spacing purposes the left side of the chart beyond 3, same side elbow would be a good place to have our other big.
Now take a loot at Vucevic shot chart.
He is hot right where we want him at 3 pt depth to maximize spacing.
Take a look at Bjelica now
Also fantastic on that side of the floor.
Now when you look at Harry, who is a dangerous passer, he's not very efficient unless close to the basket.
So to me, Vucevic offensively looks to be the perfect balance with our bigs offensively. Not to mention a good rebounder.
Develop Swan or draft a bruiser second round to fill out roster or in case we need a brute for a couple of minutes vs Cousins or something like that.
Ask yourself, how many games this year would we have won if Willie had made 75% of his free throws. We were one of the worse free throw shooting teams in the league. I believe we ended up 27th. Willie shot 54% from the line. Yeah, maybe it would have made a difference in only a few games, but when your in a playoff race, it's the little things that get you there. Maybe instead of sitting at 39 and 42, were sitting at 43 and 38 with one game to play. Simply because we made a few more free throws.
I think Vucevic is a very good fit for the Kings. He's a Swiss army knife type of center. He has a lot of tools available there.
I can't really disagree with Joerger bringing Bagley off the bench. It's so rare to find someone that can produce like that off the bench while also bringing energy. Obviously long term he's not a bench player and if they continue to use him that way he'll bail regardless of his MPG but even bringing him off next year could be a good idea. Bagley and Willie are indeed a very poor combination. They don't compliment one another very well and to me that's why it would be wise to move on from Willie this summer. The Kings need more shooting not less and Bagley spending most of his time at the 3 point line isn't the answer long term. If he's at the 3 point line you want to keep that paint clear so he can effectively be in true triple threat position. His face up driving ability all the way from the 3 is where he will be a nightmare for opposing defenses.
Does Joerger being fired today change the light people see these comments in perhaps?
Could he be projecting the locker rooms thoughts about Joerger here?or is he just a self absorbed narcissist malcontent with dellusions of grandeur?
Could he be projecting the locker rooms thoughts about Joerger here?
or is he just a self absorbed narcissist malcontent with dellusions of grandeur?
Whatever Willie brings off the pick and roll and perimeter defense doesn't make up for his lack of interior defense, inability to secure possessions off the glass, and his lack of effort and overall consistency. Consider that as Bagley and Giles develop, Willie's pick and roll play will become less and less valuable, since the offense will rely upon other weapons in the half court. Consider also that if the team wants to win, they will need an interior defensive presence that can help off the weak side when players penetrate, which has happened consistently. Consider also that second chance points have killed the Kings. So with all things considered, a 30 year old Whiteside would probably help this team make a playoff run more than WIllie. We need everything WIllie doesn't do, and we need what he does do well less and less.
Vlade knows what a big man has to do to succeed. I don't think he's looking for a coach to believe in Willie. I think that ship has sailed and Vlade will have no problem in moving on from the WCS experiment. If even part of what those rumors about WCS's comments are true, Willie has most likely played his last game in a Kings uniform.
Ok I decided to take a look at a few shooting charts for spacing, assuming Bagley starts next season, and Giles plays a decent amount of minutes too.
Here is Bagley's
As you can see heavy use in the key, also being a lefty, (an advantage on the block on one side too but low volume)
So for spacing purposes the left side of the chart beyond 3, same side elbow would be a good place to have our other big.
Now take a loot at Vucevic shot chart.
He is hot right where we want him at 3 pt depth to maximize spacing.
Take a look at Bjelica now
Also fantastic on that side of the floor.
Now when you look at Harry, who is a dangerous passer, he's not very efficient unless close to the basket.
So to me, Vucevic offensively looks to be the perfect balance with our bigs offensively. Not to mention a good rebounder.
Develop Swan or draft a bruiser second round to fill out roster or in case we need a brute for a couple of minutes vs Cousins or something like that.
Here is Bagley's
As you can see heavy use in the key, also being a lefty, (an advantage on the block on one side too but low volume)
So for spacing purposes the left side of the chart beyond 3, same side elbow would be a good place to have our other big.
Now take a loot at Vucevic shot chart.
He is hot right where we want him at 3 pt depth to maximize spacing.
Take a look at Bjelica now
Also fantastic on that side of the floor.
Now when you look at Harry, who is a dangerous passer, he's not very efficient unless close to the basket.
So to me, Vucevic offensively looks to be the perfect balance with our bigs offensively. Not to mention a good rebounder.
Develop Swan or draft a bruiser second round to fill out roster or in case we need a brute for a couple of minutes vs Cousins or something like that.
As has been pointed out in another thread, Harry Giles chart is misleading. He hasn’t been getting the same opportunities or been used the same with the big club as he was in G-League where he showed the ability to shoot it fairly well.
I think he looks for a big man that can match up/compete with Vucevic, Jokic, etc. As ockingsfan says above, Giles may be our future 5 but he's not ready yet. I do see Bagley/Giles as the eventual 4/5 but a lot can happen. I truly wish WCS had lived up to the glimpses of talent we saw. Since he didn't and is most likely gone (I especially don't see Walton having any patience with his attitude), Vlade is gonna do his best to find a placeholder center if nothing else.
I love Caleb's passion, focus, attitude, etc. but his height and weight are gonna be a real problem. He just isn't IMHO talented enough to make up for those shortcomings.
I love Caleb's passion, focus, attitude, etc. but his height and weight are gonna be a real problem. He just isn't IMHO talented enough to make up for those shortcomings.
