C/PF off season discussion

#31
I'm surprised some of you guys are wanting Brook Lopez. I think he's benefiting massively on defense from the size and length of that Bucks team.

His defensive box plus/minus has been horrible his entire career. Here's the stats from his rookie year onward...

1.2
.8
-.4
0
-.7
-.3
.2
-.4
.2
2.8 (!!!)

He has fools gold written all over him. Benefiting from the physical size and quickness of his teammates. He also hasn't grabbed more than 6.5 rebounds per36 in the last 3 years and has averaged 7.6 for his career. The Kings would get killed with this guy out there and his floor stretching and shot blocking abilities would not compensate for his awful defense and complete lack of rebounding. He's just a bad fit for nearly every team in the league other than the Bucks and I think the stats show it.
 
#32
Would you mind posting the transition stats of Buddy, Fox and the bigs once again? The Athletic did an article about transition offense and what I got from it is that Buddy is great, WCS and Bagley are good and Fox is under-averaged.

I can't remember which site I went to. It was one of the ones that had some really detailed stats but NBA.com has Buddy at 5.8 a game, Fox at 5.5 a game, Bagley is 2.7 a game, and Willie gets 2.2 a game on average. Willie scores less in transition than Demarcus Cousins. Those numbers aren't terrible and I think more so than Willie, Bagley could get up into that elite range when his 3 point shot comes. Willie I'm not sure. Only on a team where he can afford to leak out most likely. In the end Hield and Fox are the basis of the Kings fast breaking game. It's not a shock though when so much of the offense of the NBA is from behind the line and farther away from the hoop in general. Transition shots from outside are way more common place.
 
#33
I'm surprised some of you guys are wanting Brook Lopez. I think he's benefiting massively on defense from the size and length of that Bucks team.

His defensive box plus/minus has been horrible his entire career. Here's the stats from his rookie year onward...

1.2
.8
-.4
0
-.7
-.3
.2
-.4
.2
2.8 (!!!)

He has fools gold written all over him. Benefiting from the physical size and quickness of his teammates. He also hasn't grabbed more than 6.5 rebounds per36 in the last 3 years and has averaged 7.6 for his career. The Kings would get killed with this guy out there and his floor stretching and shot blocking abilities would not compensate for his awful defense and complete lack of rebounding. He's just a bad fit for nearly every team in the league other than the Bucks and I think the stats show it.
It's also shows you have good their coach is. It's all moot anyway, it's doubtful they let him go, and/or he looks to leave.
 
#35
I think the goal should be to have Bagley be the starting center next season.

If so I think the best move is to have a big bruiser as his backup. And to not blow a ton of salary cap to do so.
Was thinking the exact same thing. If Bagley and Giles are your primary bigs, then the secondary roles that make the most sense are stretch (Bjelica) and a bruiser type. Brook Lopez actually could fit both of those roles, but I don’t think he’s as easily acquired as others seem to think.
 
#36
I think the goal should be to have Bagley be the starting center next season.

If so I think the best move is to have a big bruiser as his backup. And to not blow a ton of salary cap to do so.
Think a lot depends on what the plan is with Giles for the short and long-term. If we think he's ready to go next season, then you dont invest in a max contract to Vuc. And then if the plan is to start him or keep him as the 3rd big changes who you want to add to that bigs rotation.

OR if the plan is to Bagley at C, Barnes at PF, that changes things again too. This is such a talented FA class and the Kings can set themselves up so well for any route they decide to take.
 
#37
I don’t think Bagley can be a FT Center. Just based on his build. He’s super skinny and narrow. His Ectomorphic frame has limitiations.
No matter how much he hits the weights.

He will always have problems with bigger Centers: Adams, Embiid, Jokic, Davis, Cuz, Gobert,
Etc.

Better for him to start developing an outside game and Kings pick up a FA Center.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#38
I have a sinking feeling his market won’t be very strong and they’re going to bid against themselves for Willie.

Prove me wrong Vlade.
 
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#39
I don’t think Bagley can be a FT Center. Just based on his build. He’s super skinny and narrow. His Ectomorphic frame has limitiations.
No matter how much he hits the weights.


He will always have problems with bigger Centers: Adams, Embiid, Jokic, Davis, Cuz, Gobert,
Etc.

Better for him to start developing an outside game and Kings pick up a FA Center.

I'm not sure that will be the case. When he's had the chance to guard them he's shown a willingness to use his athletic ability and motor to make up the difference. I think one of the most impressive defensive plays of the season was him blocking Adams at the rim when he tried to post up Bagley. Bagley has such a quick second jump that he has a legit chance of blocking almost any shot that isn't a hook or fadeaway. And also you have to factor in how much of a nightmare it will be for them to guard him. Before seasons end I would consider it a failure at this point to not try Bagley in place of Willie for a few games.
 
#40
I like the idea of JV. Having watched some Memphis games lately, the guy is an absolute bruiser. He's a banger in the paint, and his offensive game is versatile. He's younger than a lot of other guys on the list too. He's a strong and solid paint/post defender too.

I just like him a lot. He'd be an upgrade over WCS in every category besides speed/vertical.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#45
Harry making me believe all of this a moot point and we should be looking for competent back-ups: Nerlens Noel, Holmes, Vonleh types.
Give me Nerlens Noel as our cheaper WCS 3rd big replacement, and let Giles off the leash and I’m 1000% happy.

Would still need a larger bodied bruiser (Sup, Robin Lopez type guy) to compliment the Giles/Bags/Noel trio.
 
#46
Serious question, is WCS better than Javael McGee? If WCS costs say 10Mil, and McGee 2 or 3mil, who would you rather have?
Even if Willy was better, if Javale is 5 times cheaper then its a no brainer. Willy doesnt produce 5 times more value than McGee. And thats about the whole point of this center discussion. When you can get players like McGee for few mil and guys like Harris or Dedmond for ~6-8mil, you should never pay an average guy like Willy or Valenciunas 10-15mil, absolutely never.
 
#47
Even if Willy was better, if Javale is 5 times cheaper then its a no brainer. Willy doesnt produce 5 times more value than McGee. And thats about the whole point of this center discussion. When you can get players like McGee for few mil and guys like Harris or Dedmond for ~6-8mil, you should never pay an average guy like Willy or Valenciunas 10-15mil, absolutely never.
Sums it up nicely