C/PF off season discussion

[Iced Espresso]

Only way Kings are getting Vuk. Grossly overpay him.
That’s reality and fact.
He’s getting paid. Kings will have to pay.
5/180 is probably in the neighborhood of what he’s going to command

There will be at least 5-6 teams that can max him out. I see him going to Dallas. Especially, to join his comrades. Clips are another options. ESP, if they can’t land Kawhi, AD, or Durant.

Vuk, Porzingas and Doncic.

If the cap is projected to be 109 million

He qualifies for 30% based on NBA experience

If my math is right, and we offer 4 years which is all we can.

32,700,000 year 1 (8 years in league)
34,335,000 year 2 (1.635 million raise in second year at 5%) (9 years in league)
36,071,750 year 3 after raise
37,875,337.50 year 4 after raise

Total
140,982,087 dollars, and fifty cents over 4 years.

The annual raise in Orlando would be more, also an extra year. But are you sure others will toss the max out for him?

 

[Sac.1989]

Yes id say they will.

As long as we maintain flexibility to pay Fox, Bags and Giles im all for it.

Gives us two continuous win now windows:

1) Barnes, Buddy, Bjelica, Bogi, Vucevic are all win now pieces - supplement that with Fox, Bags and Giles and take it as far as it goes for 3-4 years

2) By 2024 Fox and Bagley will be stars leading us and the above mentioned will be gone or will move to a supporting role.

 

[The_Jamal]

Yes id say they will.

As long as we maintain flexibility to pay Fox, Bags and Giles im all for it.

Gives us two continuous win now windows:

1) Barnes, Buddy, Bjelica, Bogi, Vucevic are all win now pieces - supplement that with Fox, Bags and Giles and take it as far as it goes for 3-4 years

2) By 2024 Fox and Bagley will be stars leading us and the above mentioned will be gone or will move to a supporting role.

Yeah, this is the biggest argument to giving a Vuc max. We'd have a 1 or 2 really high cap seasons if we went this route, but it'd build a legit 4 year window with that above core. And the best part of Buddy/Bogi/Barnes/Vuc would literally be all in the same window with contracts so you could really get a hard reset if we wanted after those contracts. And once those 4 year deals are done, we'd have a 25 year old Fox, and 24 year old Giles and Bagley just entering their prime and theoretically a clean cap sheet.

 

[Sac.1989]

Yeah, this is the biggest argument to giving a Vuc max. We'd have a 1 or 2 really high cap seasons if we went this route, but it'd build a legit 4 year window with that above core. And the best part of Buddy/Bogi/Barnes/Vuc would literally be all in the same window with contracts so you could really get a hard reset if we wanted after those contracts. And once those 4 year deals are done, we'd have a 25 year old Fox, and 24 year old Giles and Bagley just entering their prime and theoretically a clean cap sheet.

Yep, that is honestly what i feel Vlade will go for.

It might not be with Vuc but the premise is the same.

We shouldn't just sit here and wait till the kids are grown. We (with proper cap management) can have two shots and windows at competing at the top end of the west

 

[Sac.1989]

If i am Vlade i am planning on being in Orlando and knocking on Vuc's door at 1201 am as soon as FA opens up.

With me im taking Peja, Fox, Bagley, Bogi, Bjelica, Joerger

 

[The Effort Police]

Yeah, this is the biggest argument to giving a Vuc max. We'd have a 1 or 2 really high cap seasons if we went this route, but it'd build a legit 4 year window with that above core. And the best part of Buddy/Bogi/Barnes/Vuc would literally be all in the same window with contracts so you could really get a hard reset if we wanted after those contracts. And once those 4 year deals are done, we'd have a 25 year old Fox, and 24 year old Giles and Bagley just entering their prime and theoretically a clean cap sheet.

I'm not a cap expert so if someone could clear this up for me that'd be great.

The thought process would be to tie in the big money with Buddy/Bogdan/Barnes/Vuvevic while Fox/Bagley/Giles are still on their rookie contracts. You then part with a few of the "old" group at the end of their contracts in order to tie up the big money in the younger group. Assume that you sign Vuvevic to a big deal and get Barnes to opt out and extend.

There's still a window of time where the younger group will have to be extended, and the older group will still be under contract, ie that 1-2 year period. It would be the 21-22 season and 22-23 season, I believe. I guess I'm asking what the feasibility of having high cap seasons like that actually is.

 

[NME]

We can go over the cap to resign our young guys. The question would be whether we're over the luxury tax threshold and if ownership is willing to spend that much on salaries and penalties.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Only way Kings are getting Vuk. Grossly overpay him.
That’s reality and fact.
He’s getting paid. Kings will have to pay.
5/180 is probably in the neighborhood of what he’s going to command

There will be at least 5-6 teams that can max him out. I see him going to Dallas. Especially, to join his comrades. Clips are another options. ESP, if they can’t land Kawhi, AD, or Durant.

Vuk, Porzingas and Doncic.

Grossly overpay as in giving him the max?

 

[Hoovtrain]

We can go over the cap to resign our young guys. The question would be whether we're over the luxury tax threshold and if ownership is willing to spend that much on salaries and penalties.

I’m looking at GS and thinking they are doing things right and keeping the band together by willing to go over the luxury tax. I also think Guber and Lacob have more $ than Vivek though

 

[SacTownKid]

We can go over the cap to resign our young guys. The question would be whether we're over the luxury tax threshold and if ownership is willing to spend that much on salaries and penalties.

Yeah, any concern about keeping the Kings youth down the line should be kicked down the line. They Kings have this one shot in the summer most likely so they have to hope it works out. If it doesn't however I do think it might be wise to again go into the year a bit under the cap to possibly strike at the deadline in a Harrison Barnes type of deal where they absorb salary. There has to be a few teams that spend big and end up disappointed.

 

[SacTownKid]

I’m looking at GS and thinking they are doing things right and keeping the band together by willing to go over the luxury tax. I also think Guber and Lacob have more $ than Vivek though

I'd bet the discussions of a hard cap cost the NBA a full year here sometime soon. If the Warriors were able to hold onto 4-5 full max players then they might as well not have a cap because it means nothing. One issue that creates an even bigger disparity in the haves and have nots is team valuation. Even the smallest market teams are so overinflated that almost any team can swallow that pill by borrowing against the equity in their franchise but the major market teams are at an insane advantage. I'm not sure what the rules are on leveraging your team but didn't Vivek basically already make a billion dollars since buying the team?

 

[The_Jamal]

I'm not a cap expert so if someone could clear this up for me that'd be great.

The thought process would be to tie in the big money with Buddy/Bogdan/Barnes/Vuvevic while Fox/Bagley/Giles are still on their rookie contracts. You then part with a few of the "old" group at the end of their contracts in order to tie up the big money in the younger group. Assume that you sign Vuvevic to a big deal and get Barnes to opt out and extend.

There's still a window of time where the younger group will have to be extended, and the older group will still be under contract, ie that 1-2 year period. It would be the 21-22 season and 22-23 season, I believe. I guess I'm asking what the feasibility of having high cap seasons like that actually is.

i mean, it's all on the ownership being willing to spend the money. The salary cap will probably be somewhere in that $125-$130 million range by then at least, which does raise the floor of what the luxury tax threshold is.

 

[KingsSelecao]

Kings are not big spenders.
Playoff teams can afford to go over the luxury tax every year. Kings are not and haven’t been. Thus, being frugal and staying under the cap is more likely.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I'd bet the discussions of a hard cap cost the NBA a full year here sometime soon. If the Warriors were able to hold onto 4-5 full max players then they might as well not have a cap because it means nothing. One issue that creates an even bigger disparity in the haves and have nots is team valuation. Even the smallest market teams are so overinflated that almost any team can swallow that pill by borrowing against the equity in their franchise but the major market teams are at an insane advantage. I'm not sure what the rules are on leveraging your team but didn't Vivek basically already make a billion dollars since buying the team?

Haven’t heard that at all...but that’s not to say he hasn’t

 

[Hoovtrain]

Kings are not big spenders.
Playoff teams can afford to go over the luxury tax every year. Kings are not and haven’t been. Thus, being frugal and staying under the cap is more likely.

Can you please explain what you meant about overpaying . Overpaying in terms of the max?

 

[Section 101]

I'd bet the discussions of a hard cap cost the NBA a full year here sometime soon. If the Warriors were able to hold onto 4-5 full max players then they might as well not have a cap because it means nothing. One issue that creates an even bigger disparity in the haves and have nots is team valuation. Even the smallest market teams are so overinflated that almost any team can swallow that pill by borrowing against the equity in their franchise but the major market teams are at an insane advantage. I'm not sure what the rules are on leveraging your team but didn't Vivek basically already make a billion dollars since buying the team?

There is a hard cap.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q20

 

[SacTownKid]

There is a hard cap.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q20

Not the same thing, that's to close a potential loophole in the use of exceptions. The discussions of a true hard cap have been bubbling up for years and would disallow teams from going above a certain number under any circumstance including in regards to re-signing it's own players.

 

[Sac.1989]

I’m looking at GS and thinking they are doing things right and keeping the band together by willing to go over the luxury tax. I also think Guber and Lacob have more $ than Vivek though

True.

Vivek has never spent a large some resigning any of our team so i am unsure how that will go.

We traded cousins so we wouldnt have to pay him. It was marketed as a culture shift but you could speculate the $$ were a factor and vivek wasnt about to tie up over $150 million in cousins when he bought the franchise for $350m

 

[King Baller]

What do we need to do to get Lauri Markannen?

Probably going to require one of the core players and another asset to entice the Bulls. Why would the Bulls trade him?

 

[Showtime]

Jonas has been destroying since getting burn in Memphis.

 

[SacTownKid]

True.

Vivek has never spent a large some resigning any of our team so i am unsure how that will go.

We traded cousins so we wouldnt have to pay him. It was marketed as a culture shift but you could speculate the $$ were a factor and vivek wasnt about to tie up over $150 million in cousins when he bought the franchise for $350m

I think the teams ever shifting FO situation and non-winning and even more so the really non-optimistic cap future they were looking at were bigger parts of the equation with Cuz. Along with that investment being Cuz himself. Vlade gave it a shot but getting any FA's to sign here didn't happen. Remember they've already thrown more than a few max offers around in FA for the last couple of years. In the end you will spend at or around the cap floor regardless of who makes what. Heck, he just made a trade for Barnes on a max deal and watched his cap room go poof in an instant.

 

[206Fan]

What about Ivica Zubac? 22 yearold RFA. In 55 total games this year he's put up-

17.4mins: 8.7pts 5.9rebs 1.1ast 0.8blk 0.2stl 1.2tos on 55.9/0/80

I think he could be a solid 3rd big on a team. He's also young enough to actually fit our age timeline.

 

[Iced Espresso]

True.

Vivek has never spent a large some resigning any of our team so i am unsure how that will go.

We traded cousins so we wouldnt have to pay him. It was marketed as a culture shift but you could speculate the $$ were a factor and vivek wasnt about to tie up over $150 million in cousins when he bought the franchise for $350m

I think we traded Cousins more so from front office failure, also him starting to get older and expensive and not believing they could fix the mess.

Not for being cheap, not for Cousins being Cousins, but the wasted opportunity and wanting to start fresh.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Cousins couldn’t recruit. Small markets can’t have supermax players that cannot recruit in FA—supermax guys are too good to allow for a top pick and not enough on their own to get into the playoffs in the West. See under Davis, Anthony. Another guy who can’t recruit.

 

[Sac.1989]

I think we traded Cousins more so from front office failure, also him starting to get older and expensive and not believing they could fix the mess.

Not for being cheap, not for Cousins being Cousins, but the wasted opportunity and wanting to start fresh.

Truth is most likely in the middle. End of the day we can paint it as a fresh start and that is what it was in every way including financially, culturally, stylistically etc

 

[SLAB]

I think we traded Cousins more so from front office failure, also him starting to get older and expensive and not believing they could fix the mess.

Not for being cheap, not for Cousins being Cousins, but the wasted opportunity and wanting to start fresh.

Excellent post.

 

[ParniValjak]

Ok I decided to take a look at a few shooting charts for spacing, assuming Bagley starts next season, and Giles plays a decent amount of minutes too.

Here is Bagley's

As you can see heavy use in the key, also being a lefty, (an advantage on the block on one side too but low volume)

So for spacing purposes the left side of the chart beyond 3, same side elbow would be a good place to have our other big.

Now take a loot at Vucevic shot chart.

He is hot right where we want him at 3 pt depth to maximize spacing.

Take a look at Bjelica now

Also fantastic on that side of the floor.

Now when you look at Harry, who is a dangerous passer, he's not very efficient unless close to the basket.

So to me, Vucevic offensively looks to be the perfect balance with our bigs offensively. Not to mention a good rebounder.

Develop Swan or draft a bruiser second round to fill out roster or in case we need a brute for a couple of minutes vs Cousins or something like that.

I know it’s not a popular view but how does Cousins’ chart compare?! Also how about Mirotić and Lopez?

 

[ParniValjak]

Jonas has been destroying since getting burn in Memphis.

Sure but doesn’t help with spacing which we need if we are starting Bagley (as we should)

 

[Showtime]

Sure but doesn’t help with spacing which we need if we are starting Bagley (as we should)

Bagley and Jonas would demand a double team, which negates spacing. If the defense is constantly trying to catch up to the ball moving, it has the same impact. Bagley already has a pretty reliable 3 point shot when open, so he can space and play face up a bit more. This is assuming, afterall, that Dave won't just start Barnes at the four.

In addition, the biggest problems the Kings frontline has is rim protection and rebounding. Jonas can do both, and a Bags/Jonas frontline will gobble up rebounds. You saw how he bodied Ayton? Bags gets pushed around because he's not a legit 7' center like Jonas, who can match up with guys like Ayton, Jokic, Nurkic, etc.

You have to look at not just what you lose with a different player, but what you gain, and what you gain overall makes the team much better. The kings don't just win because of spacing in the half court. In fact, they've struggled at times by not having a really go-to half court frontline player until Bagley improved. They have an impact in two ways: deep shooting and the transition game. You can't get in transition if you don't secure the rebound, and they haven't been able to close games late because they lack the ability to do those things that Jonas can do.

 

[SLAB]

From Rotoworld about Willie (OUT / Personal)

“Cauley-Stein logged just 21 minutes in Tuesday's loss, and was clearly unhappy in the locker room afterward. Per a report in the Sacramento Bee, Cauley-Stein has recently hinted he feels undervalued, under-appreciated or perhaps just underused, saying, "I’ve still got more skills that haven’t been brought out," and, "We don’t take advantage of everything I have." Stay tuned for an update on this situation, as WCS is a pending free agent. As for Friday, Marvin Bagley and Kosta Kofous will soak up extra playing time. Bagley is certainly the preferred DFS option.”

He gone?