Butler/Gay Trade
- Thread starter macadocious
- Start date
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Yeah Barnes is way overrated everywhere and I'm not sure why. He's a borderline starter on a lot of teams, not a star. Some team will regret overpaying for him.
Barnes is the fifth or sixth most important player for the Golden State Warriors behind Curry, Green, Thompson, Iguodala and possibly Bogut.
His ability to defend bigger PFs in small ball lineups is a great asset and he's a solid third or fourth option on offense but I don't see him being successful as the #1 or #2 guy on a team.
randymoss1881
Starter
Agreed espically if we draft Brown and trade Gay. We can groom Brown for 2 years while Barners gets minutes.
KingsFanGER
Starter
Borderline starter? I don't think Barnes is a star in the making, but there aren't many guys in the league, that can guard 2 positions without problems, are quick enough to cover lots of ground on D and to contain most guards in the pick&roll and shoot 3's at 37 to 38%. Barnes can post up a bit too.
His decision making is a little clumsy sometimes and his ball handling skills aren't great, but he certainly has a very valuable overall skillset.
KingsFanGER
Starter
Solomon Hill is a career 32% shooter from 3 and has no post game at all. He is the more aggressive defender from my point of view though.
And Solomon Hill on his recent hot streak will get paid too, when teams believe that this is his true potential.
Hill finished his college career with .390 3pt% (on 5 attempts per 40) and .766 FT%. His career NBA FT% is .831. It was a matter of time and gaining confidence, before he started knocking down decent amount of shots. Just for comparison Danny Green shot more 3s this season at .332% than Solomon Hill in his career. Now anyone thinking Hill will continue to make 50% from 3 is in for a big surprise, but 36-38% outside shooting can be expected. As for post game Hill was ok there in college, but Pacers played two inside bigs most of his career.
KingsFanGER
Starter
We'll see if Hill is able to hit 3's above league average. If he does, he is certainly not a borderline starter anymore. His defense was always good. The only knock on him was his "lack" of floor spacing.
Like I said - I'm certainly not advocating, that Barnes (nor Hill) is a star player, but borderline starter sounds a bit odd for me, when most teams are searching for 6'6 to 6'9 guys able to defend the 3 and hit the 3 on offense.
In my mind Barnes would certainly start for the Lakers, the Heat (unless you think Deng is better in the long run, which I doubt), the Bulls, the Raptors, the Rockets, the Celtics (if they decide to play Crowder at PF full time which is questionable), the Hornets, the Clippers, the Knicks, the Blazers (I think he is a bit of an upgrade over Aminu or Harkless), the Grizzlies, the Kings, the Pelicans, the Wolves (if Wiggins can play full time SG), the Wizards, the 76ers, the Suns and the Nuggets as long as Chandler isn't healthy.
That are quite a lot of teams. And even if some teams don't have the cap space to sign him (I personally don't look for other teams cap space), he will have a lot of suitors in FA. He is still only 23 (almost 24) years old, has tons of playoff experience under his belt, will hit his prime soon and fits the long term plans for most teams. A guy like Carroll is 29 and signed a 4 year 60 million deal and the cap is going up again.
20 million is a bit of an overpay, but given the amount of teams, that should be interested, it sounds realistic.
I never used "borderline starter". What I see, is a low-level starter for both. Hill should get $6-8 million per, depending on competition for his services, while $11-12 million should be Barnes' range in my mind, since he's a proven commodity. My number for Hill even contains a bit of a bonus for being more versatile defender.
I actually don't argue against the fact, that Barnes will get $20+ million per. I just don't want Kings to be that stupid.
I actually don't argue against the fact, that Barnes will get $20+ million per. I just don't want Kings to be that stupid.
I'm right about with you. I don't think Barnes is a player who should be getting a max. I just don't see how he can be a team's #2-3 option. If we're looking for a guy who can potentially take over games, we'd need to look at Evan Fournier. He's a game changer compared to Barnes.
However, I wouldn't be upset if we took that risk with Barnes. If everything works out, then it means we found a 23yearold star who can compliment Cousins on offense and become an elite defender. If things don't work, it just means we overpaid for a 23yearold wing who is very good on defense. Plus, he can shoot 3s and finish at the rim.
With that being said, it'll be extremely difficult to sell him on coming here.
KingsFanGER
Starter
You responded to my answer to Dime Dropper so I unintentionally mixed it up a bit. Sorry.
Like I said Carroll got up to 15,5 million per year at 29 as a player, who has reached his peak. So I think you sell Barnes way too low with 11-12 million.
Barnes fits the need for the SF, PF position better than a guy like Rudy, when the team already has a good PG.
So no matter if you call him low level starter or borderline starter, I disagree.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
There's a couple reasons for that. One, he's generally worn out and can't get lift in his legs because he's relied upon so heavily. And, secondly, most post players and big men aren't go to players in the final minute because (a) it becomes increasingly more difficult to get them the ball and (b) the officials allow so much more contact. The latter allows help defenders to swipe and punch at the ball with impunity (usually making contact with the arms and hands) but with no foul call.
Unless the post player has a Kareem skyhook type of shot in his arsenal, you almost always see the wing players and guards as the more effective players taking shots down the stretch because they have more room to work with.
Sac.1989
Starter
minny leading with their 5th pick for butler.
bulls countering that any deal with need to include wiggans and 5th for butler.
not going anywhere currently but this seems to be the standard.
id go rudy and 8th happily but they really want Dunn.
alternatively we move up and try get Dunn then flip him for Butler.
bulls countering that any deal with need to include wiggans and 5th for butler.
not going anywhere currently but this seems to be the standard.
id go rudy and 8th happily but they really want Dunn.
alternatively we move up and try get Dunn then flip him for Butler.
macadocious
Starter
What do we think the value for Rudy is right now?
lwc
Starter
If Marco Belinelli by himself is worth the 22nd overall pick, there's no telling what Rudy Gay is worth.
I don't think that trade is a good indicator because we absulotely fleeced them... and another thing is that as weird as it may sound there are a lot more teams that can fit Marco into their roster than teams that can do it with Rudy- Rudy is a far better player but he is not an easy fit so it may drive his price down a bit.
upinsmoke
All-Star
This is a perfect example of how you deploy Rudy Gay. He likes his room to operate the Wings and as you can see even against top shelf defenders he
can beat the brakes off them with his size and skill. DMC and Rudy can co exist but NOT with Rondo in the mix. Also we might as well either close or rename this thread because Chicago is not trading Butler for Gay that much is pretty clear.
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