Bulls and Kings Talking Trade

[sactownfan]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...go-bulls-los-angeles-clippers,0,2826132.story

I'd be interesting to see if we could get a young player along with Gooden.

 

[Spike]

I get that Gooden's an expiring, but I wouldn't want him on the team. Unlike Mikki Moore, who averages nothing and nothing, Gooden is a double-double. It would be hard to justify limited minutes for him while giving JT/Hawes big(ger) minutes. Also, the Maloofs would want to see some PT for him because, hey, he could bring us more wins.

It'd have to be a pretty sweet deal. At the very least, hearing these talks might force some other teams to up the ante.

 

[sactownfan]

Well in my mind nothing mins wise really changes... Gooden just takes Brads mins. Hawes slides over to his natural position, and we have a true PF with Gooden. JT is still the first Big off the bench.

 

[Spike]

I was thinking more minutes to Hawes/Thompson, with extra (some?) for Greene, but I guess that's not the end of the world.

 

[Jespher]

Brad Miller and Kevin Martin for Derrick Rose and Larry Hughes works on trade checker...I would assume Rose is untouchable, but for Kevin Martin, at least we would get their attention (Maybe throw in Houston's pick to sweeten the deal)...Hughes has a horrible contract, but it expires in summer of 2010 like Brad's does...

Kings New Lineup (+ Lottery Pick Next Year)

PG Derrick Rose/Beno Udrih/Bobby Brown
SG Francisco Garcia/Bobby Jackson/Quincy Douby
SF John Salmons/Larry Hughes/Dante Greene
PF Jason Thompson/Mikki Moore/Kenny Thomas
C Spencer Hawes/Sheldon Williams/Mikki Moore

Bulls New Lineup (+ 2 1st Round Picks Next Year)

PG Kirk Hinrich/Lindsey Hunter
SG Kevin Martin/Ben Gordon
SF Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni/Thabo Sefalosha
PF Drew Gooden/Tyrus Thomas/Cedrick Simmons/Michael Ruffin
C Brad Miller/Joakim Noah

 

[Bricklayer]

Rose is indeed untouchable.

We would be after kids of course, but the ones available are Thomas and Sefalosha, and apparently the ongoing hangup is that our interest may be in Noah, and even with him in the doghouse they still don't want to give him up.

 

[nbrans]

It would be interesting to see who the Bulls were willing to part with. Larry Hughes would be the natural person to go, and yet he's actually been playing extremely well this year.

But Brad to Chicago would make a lot of sense for both sides, and I still think Tyrus Thomas has loads of potential. Noah is fine -- you know what you're going to get with him and he could be a Pollard-esque third big off the bench for years. Thomas still has enough potential to be something more.

 

[bajaden]

It would be interesting to see who the Bulls were willing to part with. Larry Hughes would be the natural person to go, and yet he's actually been playing extremely well this year.

But Brad to Chicago would make a lot of sense for both sides, and I still think Tyrus Thomas has loads of potential. Noah is fine -- you know what you're going to get with him and he could be a Pollard-esque third big off the bench for years. Thomas still has enough potential to be something more.

I not a big fan of Noah's. I wasn't crazy about him in college, and I like him less as a pro. But, I could live with him on his potential alone, as long as he agreed to physciatric care as part of the deal. I want no part of Hughes. I realize he's having one of his better years, but I'm not convinced he won't revert back to the old Larry.

 

[RalphySampson]

Brad Miller and Kevin Martin for Derrick Rose and Larry Hughes works on trade checker...I would assume Rose is untouchable, but for Kevin Martin, at least we would get their attention (Maybe through in Houston's pick to sweeten the deal)...Hughes has a horrible contract, but it expires in summer of 2010 like Brad's does...

Kings New Lineup (+ Lottery Pick Next Year)

PG Derrick Rose/Beno Udrih/Bobby Brown
SG Francisco Garcia/Bobby Jackson/Quincy Douby
SF John Salmons/Larry Hughes/Dante Greene
PF Jason Thompson/Mikki Moore/Kenny Thomas
C Spencer Hawes/Sheldon Williams/Mikki Moore

Bulls New Lineup (+ 2 1st Round Picks Next Year)

PG Kirk Hinrich/Lindsey Hunter
SG Kevin Martin/Ben Gordon
SF Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni/Thabo Sefalosha
PF Drew Gooden/Tyrus Thomas/Cedrick Simmons/Michael Ruffin
C Brad Miller/Joakim Noah

Come on man. You type up this pretty little post and spend all that time on a trade with Chicago for Rose? There is absolutely zero combination of anything we have to offer them, including the State Railroad Museum, that would get the Bulls to trade Rose to us.

 

[RalphySampson]

I not a big fan of Noah's. I wasn't crazy about him in college, and I like him less as a pro. But, I could live with him on his potential alone, as long as he agreed to physciatric care as part of the deal. I want no part of Hughes. I realize he's having one of his better years, but I'm not convinced he won't revert back to the old Larry.

I agree. There is just something about Noah that I don't like. I don't see him being much of a player ever in the league. Hughes can be a cancer and I doubt he would be happy in Sacramento.

We do need to do anything possible to get Brad out of town and get some salary cap relief. Get it done GP!!

 

[Jespher]

Come on man. You type up this pretty little post and spend all that time on a trade with Chicago for Rose? There is absolutely zero combination of anything we have to offer them, including the State Railroad Museum, that would get the Bulls to trade Rose to us.

Some of us dream bigger than others...It seems Kings fans are now undervaluing Kevin Martin due to his injury this year, but I see him as the piece needed to get an elite player on the Kings.

 

[Kingster]

I agree. There is just something about Noah that I don't like. I don't see him being much of a player ever in the league.

How about the fact that he can't shoot worth a darn. It's obvious the Kings management still likes him from the way Reynolds talks about him. One thing for sure, if they trade for him they are breaking the mold in coveting only those players who can shoot. If they can get a shooting coach for the guy, blow up his form, and rebuild it from the ground up, maybe there's a future for him.

 

[RalphySampson]

Some of us dream bigger than others...It seems Kings fans are now undervaluing Kevin Martin due to his injury this year, but I see him as the piece needed to get an elite player on the Kings.

Yeah, it's fine to dream but it's really just a waste of time to think that Rose will be traded. Why would they want Kevin Martin instead of Rose? I mean, look at those new proposed lineups you posted. The Bulls would be awful again. If that trade went down, it would be the worst trade in NBA history and would make ZERO sense at all for the Bulls.

You don't trade a rookie point guard who was your overall #1 pick and is shooting great %'s and dropping nearly 7 assists a game. Sacramento couldn't pull off this trade even if they through in the Railroad Museum, the state Capitol, and the American River.

 

[NME]

You don't trade a rookie point guard who was your overall #1 pick and is shooting great %'s and dropping nearly 7 assists a game.

And given that people are already calling him the next CP3, we have no possible combination of assets that would get the Bulls to give him up.

South Park fans are familiar with the formula:

Step 1 - Make offer for Derrick Rose
Step 2 - ???
Step 3 - Profit!

 

[Sptsjunkie]

How about the fact that he can't shoot worth a darn. It's obvious the Kings management still likes him from the way Reynolds talks about him. One thing for sure, if they trade for him they are breaking the mold in coveting only those players who can shoot. If they can get a shooting coach for the guy, blow up his form, and rebuild it from the ground up, maybe there's a future for him.

Obviously Petrie loves shooters, but it's not as if he doesn't see the value in other types of role players as well. Let's not forget that Scot Pollard couldn't shoot and was a staple that Petrie brought in and resigned to a nice sized contract. Keon Clark had a wobbly 15 foot jumper, but I would not call him a shooter. Even Tony Massenburg was just a banger. At this point if Petrie likes Noah, he could see a lot of potential for him to be at least another Scot Pollard even if he never develops a consistent jumper.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Sefolosha is the only available young guy they have that I like. Thomas I think is too much of a head case to ever mature into a quality player. Ideally we would get a pick or something.

 

[beb0p]

I don't see the Bulls as a viable trade partner. I'm guessing their offer is along the line of Larry Hughes for Brad Miller. Petrie counter offered to include Noah. Paxson laughed. The Bulls countered offered us to include Spencer Hawes. Petrie laughed. And that's the end of it.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Sefolosha is the only available young guy they have that I like. Thomas I think is too much of a head case to ever mature into a quality player. Ideally we would get a pick or something.

I wouldn't mind Thomas depending on what we have to give up. Very high upside and sometimes a change of scenery is what helps tap into that potential. After having everyone tell you how special you are your whole life, having a team say "your not worth the headache" can be a wake up call.

With that said, I agree about Thabo, I always liked him, I am suprised Del Negro hasn't found a way to get him more time. He has all around skills on O and plays good D.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I like Sefolosha as a relatively athletic young defensive stopper with length, and he put the clamps down on Dwyane Wade in a couple of playoff games--if I recall the Bulls were the team that gave the Heat the most trouble in recent years. A 6'7" 215 lb (although watching him he seems smaller than that height) guy who can D up is quite valuable in this league. Perhaps he just needs the right team to blossom with, because playing alongside Chicago's youth corps doesn't seem to do him any favors. I think he has untapped passing potential as well, but he seems to be a really pedestrian offensive player. I like him better couple years in the league he's shown that he's a mediocre offensive player at best. I've explained my case on Ty Thomas already.

 

[east_sac]

And given that people are already calling him the next CP3, we have no possible combination of assets that would get the Bulls to give him up.

South Park fans are familiar with the formula:

Step 1 - Make offer for Derrick Rose
Step 2 - ???
Step 3 - Profit!

Are you suggesting that the Maloofs are the underpants gnomes?

 

[SacKings7]

It would be interesting to see who the Bulls were willing to part with. Larry Hughes would be the natural person to go, and yet he's actually been playing extremely well this year.

But Brad to Chicago would make a lot of sense for both sides, and I still think Tyrus Thomas has loads of potential. Noah is fine -- you know what you're going to get with him and he could be a Pollard-esque third big off the bench for years. Thomas still has enough potential to be something more.

Bingo. Agree 100%

 

[Aenadin]

how bout a trade like

Sacramento Trades

Brad Miller
Beno Udrih


Chicago Trades

Kirk Hinrich
Drew gooden

hinrich's contract may be a little bigger than we want but at least we know he is a stable and capable point guard.. and almost at the same age of Beno...

 

[AleksandarN]

here would be my idea something close to the previous post.

Beno Udrih
Kenny Thomas
Brad Miller

For

Cedric Simmons
Joakim Noah
Drew Gooden
Kirk Hinrich


We then buyout Drew. So he can sign back with the Bulls in a month.

Also if you look further the salaries between Beno Kirk are pretty close in final year of Kirk's contract

Beno

5,500,000 $6,077,500 $6,655,000 $7,232,500 $7,810,000

Kirk

10,000,000 $9,500,000 $9,000,000 $8,000,000

 

[Aenadin]

The Beno Miller for gooden/Hinrich deal makes sense to me not because i said it but statwise it kind of evens out... we need a STABLE point guard... they need a Center. now Gooden can start at PF and have mikki play 2nd fiddle as Center for a few plug in minutes... so our line up would be

Hinrich/Brown/Jackson
Martin/Garcia/Douby
Salmons/Greene
Gooden/Williams/Thompson
Hawes/Moore

 

[Bricklayer]

We absolutely do not need a mediocre veteran PF on this team. No longer. That's how we got to this point.

And we probably don't need a Hinrich either. Man has his star plummeted. And even though his contract does too (well at least it goes down) he would still be taking up extra capspace to do it over what Beno does. If you can guarantee me that a PG a month away form his 28th birthday is going to either learn new tricks or at least regain his form from a couple of years back, maybe you could consider it. But he's oldish for what we are trying to do and badly overpaid for what he has produced the last couple of years, so if you pick him up, he'd better be the guy.

The heart of the deal we seem to be after is Brad for Noah, which I am down with if it can be worked. But the Bulls have screwed themselves up with a lot of icky contracts for guys not as good as Paxson thought they were, and you have to be careful about taking those back.

 

[bajaden]

We absolutely do not need a mediocre veteran PF on this team. No longer. That's how we got to this point.

And we probably don't need a Hinrich either. Man has his star plummeted. And even though his contract does too (well at least it goes down) he would still be taking up extra capspace to do it over what Beno does. If you can guarantee me that a PG a month away form his 28th birthday is going to either learn new tricks or at least regain his form from a couple of years back, maybe you could consider it. But he's oldish for what we are trying to do and badly overpaid for what he has produced the last couple of years, so if you pick him up, he'd better be the guy.

The heart of the deal we seem to be after is Brad for Noah, which I am down with if it can be worked. But the Bulls have screwed themselves up with a lot of icky contracts for guys not as good as Paxson thought they were, and you have to be careful about taking those back.

I'm willing to gamble on Noah, but he scares me. We could be taking on a serious head case with few offensive skills. I'll give you that in college he was a good rebounder and high energy player and seemed to fit. But for some reason his play since joining the NBA has been inconsistant and he's been a pain in the a$$ as well.

But, he is young, and does have the talent to be a change of pace player off the bench.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Hughes/Thomas for Miller/Douby. Clean and simple. I doubt they're willing to give up Gooden's expiring instead of Hughes.

Hawes/Moore/Williams
Thompson/TThomas/Williams

makes a nice big man rotation. Mikki can stay as the veteran holdover/"hustle" guy, as long as he doesn't play more than 20 minutes.

 

[AleksandarN]

We absolutely do not need a mediocre veteran PF on this team. No longer. That's how we got to this point.

And we probably don't need a Hinrich either. Man has his star plummeted. And even though his contract does too (well at least it goes down) he would still be taking up extra capspace to do it over what Beno does. If you can guarantee me that a PG a month away form his 28th birthday is going to either learn new tricks or at least regain his form from a couple of years back, maybe you could consider it. But he's oldish for what we are trying to do and badly overpaid for what he has produced the last couple of years, so if you pick him up, he'd better be the guy.

The heart of the deal we seem to be after is Brad for Noah, which I am down with if it can be worked. But the Bulls have screwed themselves up with a lot of icky contracts for guys not as good as Paxson thought they were, and you have to be careful about taking those back.

I
I disaggree. The difference in last year of kirks contract is 700k. It's not much of difference plus kirks contact is a year shorter and with my trade we save a couple of million dollars with the 25% trade rule.

 

[sactownfan]

since this trade rumor came out I have been waking up every morning wishing this or any deal that includes Miller would go down.

Gooden is the same as having Miller in that they both have no future on this team but the BIG BIG DIFFERENCE is that Gooden is gone at years end and we'd have another young player to look at. Thompsons min's would stay the same, and our starting 5 would actually be made up of people playing their natural positions.

 

[Packt]

We absolutely do not need a mediocre veteran PF on this team. No longer. That's how we got to this point.

And we probably don't need a Hinrich either. Man has his star plummeted. And even though his contract does too (well at least it goes down) he would still be taking up extra capspace to do it over what Beno does. If you can guarantee me that a PG a month away form his 28th birthday is going to either learn new tricks or at least regain his form from a couple of years back, maybe you could consider it. But he's oldish for what we are trying to do and badly overpaid for what he has produced the last couple of years, so if you pick him up, he'd better be the guy.

Hinrich is a steady PG, overall not a great scorer, but shoots the 3 well. He's a solid and tough defender, good enough that you can even move him over to Kevins man. I think he's as good of a fit as we can get, outside of getting lucky with the lottery.

Gooden is someone I don't want. It would be a move just to make a move, and potentially dangerous if he somehow tricks Petrie into re-signing him.