[Game] Kings @ Chicago Bulls, 2/3/2024, 5:00p PT/8:00p ET

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Rain man said:
Of all the criticisms about Brown in this thread, this one really makes me laugh. I know that your guy wasn't in the rotation before he got hurt, but "only play 7 guys" and "if you aren't in the top 7 you don't exist" is the EXACT opposite of Brown.

I count 16 guys who have been part of the rotation at some point this season. I mean, literally every guy on the roster except Slawson and Ford (including Ellis, JTA, Kessler, Javale, Mitchell, Duarte, Colby, and Len) have been in the rotation for at least a few games. If there is any criticism on his rotations, it is that he is constantly tinkering with the 8-10 spots in the rotation, and guys that people really like (Ellis, Len, Sasha, etc...) can disappear from the rotation for a few weeks. But I think it keeps guys 8-15 hungry- you can literally play your way in or out of the rotation at any time. I think guys at the bottom of the roster respond to that.

It is true that he generally only plays 9-10 guys per game, but that is true of most coaches. Most coaches aren't playin 11-12 guys every night.
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Right. If anythihg, the early consensus was that Brown was digging too deep into the bench, not the other way around. I’m confused
 
forza kings said:
What would it take to get Caruso? He is a defensive monster.
Click to expand...

Why people think that dude is gonna move the needle astounds me.

Even if one was to buy into the notion that Caruso is some poor man’s version of Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen or Kawhi Leonard in their primes — there’s a trade off. The dude is mediocre in pretty much every other aspect of the game, if that. A career single digit average scorer, despite owning a decent 3pt percentage.

The vast majority of fans of this site simply covet what the team doesn’t have until they have it. Then they complain about that players shortcomings.

Reading this site would have the uninformed believing the likes of Kyle Kuzma and Alex Caruso are the missing links while ignoring the fact that they haven’t been the missing links on their current teams, both of which are sub.500 teams with one being absolutely dreadful. But somehow one of those players is somehow gonna make a difference on this team (more so than the players they’d need to trade to get them)?

Caruso is a career journeyman. Nothing more, nothing less. Talk about setting a low bar.

I’m sure someone inevitably point to some “advanced statistics” or the fact that Caruso was a bench scrub on the Lakers manufactured “bubble” championship team in 2020 as some sort of evidence that I’m wrong about him. More power to them.

The point is, as soon as this franchise changes focus and loads up on the Alex Caruso types to fill out their roster, these same KINGS fans will be coveting the types of players the team once had. It’ll be “we play good defense, but can’t score consistently and don’t have a “go to” clutch time player“. Wash, rinse, repeat. :rolleyes:

Set your sights higher than Alex Caruso, people! This team is better off remaining status quo.

Last I checked they’ve been a top 3-5 team in the West with what they’ve currently got. Why eff with that to add a marginal at best player? Makes no sense.
 
Vinny Basketballerino said:
I at least know he's a better in game coach and I know that from a ten minute sample size - the same way I knew Kessler was an A level defender literally on the first possession I saw him play.

As for the other things - it's expected he'll be hired away as a head coach if not after this season then very soon. He's currently the head coach of the Canadian National team which had a pretty good showing recently.

He's basically Mike Brown's protege but with vastly better in-game coaching skills - as far as I can tell. Seems to have great rapport with players as well based on locker room vibes I've seen.
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You know or you strongly suspect?

Cause I strongly suspect you are smart enough to realize how silly it is to suggest someone could know anything from such a micro sample size.

Lastly, please do tell how and when Kessler Edwards has proven to be an “A” level defender. Burden of proof, dude.
 
captain bill said:
Let it not be lost how impressive it is to go 2-0 on a road back to back, even if it is a short flight from Indy to Chicago. 5-1 thru 6 road games is hugely impressive and probably outperforms even the most optimistic view of this schedule
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We all know being a KINGS fan ain’t easy. A myriad of bullet points could be listed as to why.

But reading this board all season, you’d never know this team was 29-19 with winning records both at home and on the road while also being in the midst of a franchise best 5-1 road trip.

As many flaws as are constantly brought up about this team, its coaching staff, and its ownership — you’d never know that any of the above was remotely possible.

If I didn’t know any better, I’d think this team was experiencing the Washington Wizards current season and/or headed for it’s 18th consecutive lottery appearance….
 
Rain man said:
Of all the criticisms about Brown in this thread, this one really makes me laugh. I know that your guy wasn't in the rotation before he got hurt, but "only play 7 guys" and "if you aren't in the top 7 you don't exist" is the EXACT opposite of Brown.

I count 16 guys who have been part of the rotation at some point this season. I mean, literally every guy on the roster except Slawson and Ford (including Ellis, JTA, Kessler, Javale, Mitchell, Duarte, Colby, and Len) have been in the rotation for at least a few games. If there is any criticism on his rotations, it is that he is constantly tinkering with the 8-10 spots in the rotation, and guys that people really like (Ellis, Len, Sasha, etc...) can disappear from the rotation for a few weeks. But I think it keeps guys 8-15 hungry- you can literally play your way in or out of the rotation at any time. I think guys at the bottom of the roster respond to that.

It is true that he generally only plays 9-10 guys per game, but that is true of most coaches. Most coaches aren't playin 11-12 guys every night.
Click to expand...

Fox , Sabonis , Murray , Huerter , Barnes , Monk , Lyles (bolded ones the obvious must start and play 48min if possbile out of question)
That are the guys who will play 100% every game which they are healthy and they will get more then 15 minutes , reasonable playing time. A mean no garbage time , no 30 sec over here and over there ...
Then you have Ellis or Mitchel , depends on what mood Coachs is this month (i can not uderstand the rotation of those two honestly)
And pretty much that is ... So sorry 7.5 guys not 8 ...
 
And to clear myself , i do not say that Kings have to fire Brown or replace him ...
Just being a fan (in my eyes) does not mean to blindly follow the team and not speak about things you don't like ... I don't like some decisions of Brown - i am discussing them here ... Maybe he is the best option for us , maybe we will be minus 10 not plus 10 with someone else with the same roster , but we have him , so we discsus him ....
One Murray or Fox or Monk are having a bad game or run of them (all 3 had at some point) we discuss this without wanting to trade/sold them , right ? :)
5-1 out of 6 away games is still a monster result ... Most of us were going to be happy with 3/4 , now we hope for 6/1 ...
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Why people think that dude is gonna move the needle astounds me.

Even if one was to buy into the notion that Caruso is some poor man’s version of Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen or Kawhi Leonard in their primes — there’s a trade off. The dude is mediocre in pretty much every other aspect of the game, if that. A career single digit average scorer, despite owning a decent 3pt percentage.

The vast majority of fans of this site simply covet what the team doesn’t have until they have it. Then they complain about that players shortcomings.

Reading this site would have the uninformed believing the likes of Kyle Kuzma and Alex Caruso are the missing links while ignoring the fact that they haven’t been the missing links on their current teams, both of which are sub.500 teams with one being absolutely dreadful. But somehow one of those players is somehow gonna make a difference on this team (more so than the players they’d need to trade to get them)?

Caruso is a career journeyman. Nothing more, nothing less. Talk about setting a low bar.

I’m sure someone inevitably point to some “advanced statistics” or the fact that Caruso was a bench scrub on the Lakers manufactured “bubble” championship team in 2020 as some sort of evidence that I’m wrong about him. More power to them.

The point is, as soon as this franchise changes focus and loads up on the Alex Caruso types to fill out their roster, these same KINGS fans will be coveting the types of players the team once had. It’ll be “we play good defense, but can’t score consistently and don’t have a “go to” clutch time player“. Wash, rinse, repeat. :rolleyes:

Set your sights higher than Alex Caruso, people! This team is better off remaining status quo.

Last I checked they’ve been a top 3-5 team in the West with what they’ve currently got. Why eff with that to add a marginal at best player? Makes no sense.
Click to expand...

If he was 6’7 he’d move the needle and be a DPOY but ya he’s not
 
The_Jamal said:
Yeah man, we totally should go get George Karl, or Ty Corbin, or Luke Walton back. Or how about the last time we fired our great coach! That worked out awesome!

Fans drive me absolutely nuts when they want to can their top 10 coach. 49ers fans are notoriously horrible at this too when they want Shanahan gone for absolutely no reason. It can and has gotten a lot worse.

Brown isn't perfect, by any means. His fascination with Javale is mind-blowing and I think he gets way too stuck in keeping guys in static positions. But basically this entire team has played the best basketball of their career in the last season and they've totally bought into everything he's teaching and coaching. 77-53 under Brown is far beyond any expectation that anyone could have had for this team the last few years. Everyone thought we would fall off this year and we're right back on track for a 50 win season.
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my biggest criticism of Brown is he is dead last in challenges won percent among coaches.
 
sactowndog said:
my biggest criticism of Brown is he is dead last in challenges won percent among coaches.
Click to expand...

I am not so sure it's his fault, he is not the one responsible for them but then again...

1. He challenged some calls himself when players told him to do so early in the game with no success
2. He hesitates to challenge some calls and when he tries to do so the time runs out and the ball is already in play so he misses the chance to do so.

Bottom line I think the "challenge coaching staff" has either to be changed, or become more focused.

Also since it happened again today, our team should not let the game to be delayed for others to get a challenge. Someone else wrote about it in the thread before, it was our substitutions that allowed Donovan to reconsider, take and eventually win the challenge regaining possession of the ball for the Bulls overturning the call. It sucks that Kings are the team that have constant issues with "the challenge". It will be interesting to see if there are anywhere some stats about it in the current season.
 
megapoxy said:
I think the (very small) sample of 2 matches in Canada last season and Milwaukee the current one that Brown's ejection left him in charge and he turned things around both times only to lose at Milwaukee at the end with those free throws in OT
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I think it was actually Brown's ejection in that game that lit a fire in the team that night - not Jordy. Also, his timeout management at the end of regulation I believe (maybe OT) was atrocious and arguably could have cost us the game.
 
ick300 said:
Fox , Sabonis , Murray , Huerter , Barnes , Monk , Lyles (bolded ones the obvious must start and play 48min if possbile out of question)
That are the guys who will play 100% every game which they are healthy and they will get more then 15 minutes , reasonable playing time. A mean no garbage time , no 30 sec over here and over there ...
Then you have Ellis or Mitchel , depends on what mood Coachs is this month (i can not uderstand the rotation of those two honestly)
And pretty much that is ... So sorry 7.5 guys not 8 ...
Click to expand...
You do realize this is the norm for almost every team in the league. They generally have 7 or 8 players that always play and the rest depends on matchups or how players are producing at that particular time. Brown has gone deeper into his bench on a regular basis more often than most coaches this season.
 
megapoxy said:
I am not so sure it's his fault, he is not the one responsible for them but then again...

1. He challenged some calls himself when players told him to do so early in the game with no success
2. He hesitates to challenge some calls and when he tries to do so the time runs out and the ball is already in play so he misses the chance to do so.

Bottom line I think the "challenge coaching staff" has either to be changed, or become more focused.

Also since it happened again today, our team should not let the game to be delayed for others to get a challenge. Someone else wrote about it in the thread before, it was our substitutions that allowed Donovan to reconsider, take and eventually win the challenge regaining possession of the ball for the Bulls overturning the call. It sucks that Kings are the team that have constant issues with "the challenge". It will be interesting to see if there are anywhere some stats about it in the current season.
Click to expand...
Just wonder if it also has to do with the fact that we are the Kings. IIRC, we were last in FT differential last year, and might be in the same range (if not dead last again) this year, given that teams typically tend to shoot more FTs than us (with some exceptions like tonight).

I would expect teams with a winning record to shoot more FTs, particularly as teams trying to catch up foul at the end to stop the game. Despite winning over the last 1.5 seasons, we routinely have bad FT numbers. Does it extend to challenges too?
 
megapoxy said:
I am not so sure it's his fault, he is not the one responsible for them but then again...

1. He challenged some calls himself when players told him to do so early in the game with no success
2. He hesitates to challenge some calls and when he tries to do so the time runs out and the ball is already in play so he misses the chance to do so.

Bottom line I think the "challenge coaching staff" has either to be changed, or become more focused.

Also since it happened again today, our team should not let the game to be delayed for others to get a challenge. Someone else wrote about it in the thread before, it was our substitutions that allowed Donovan to reconsider, take and eventually win the challenge regaining possession of the ball for the Bulls overturning the call. It sucks that Kings are the team that have constant issues with "the challenge". It will be interesting to see if there are anywhere some stats about it in the current season.
Click to expand...

their are stats …..

https://www.sportico.com/leagues/basketball/2024/nba-coaches-challenge-joe-mazzulla-1234762962/amp/
 
megapoxy said:
I am not so sure it's his fault, he is not the one responsible for them but then again...

1. He challenged some calls himself when players told him to do so early in the game with no success
2. He hesitates to challenge some calls and when he tries to do so the time runs out and the ball is already in play so he misses the chance to do so.

Bottom line I think the "challenge coaching staff" has either to be changed, or become more focused.

Also since it happened again today, our team should not let the game to be delayed for others to get a challenge. Someone else wrote about it in the thread before, it was our substitutions that allowed Donovan to reconsider, take and eventually win the challenge regaining possession of the ball for the Bulls overturning the call. It sucks that Kings are the team that have constant issues with "the challenge". It will be interesting to see if there are anywhere some stats about it in the current season.
Click to expand...

I think doing well on challenges has to do with mental frame rate and the ability of coaches to see and decipher live what is occurring. The Kings seem to have limited coaches with NBA caliber frame rate to see what is happening live and make the correct call.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Why people think that dude is gonna move the needle astounds me.

Even if one was to buy into the notion that Caruso is some poor man’s version of Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen or Kawhi Leonard in their primes — there’s a trade off. The dude is mediocre in pretty much every other aspect of the game, if that. A career single digit average scorer, despite owning a decent 3pt percentage.

The vast majority of fans of this site simply covet what the team doesn’t have until they have it. Then they complain about that players shortcomings.

Reading this site would have the uninformed believing the likes of Kyle Kuzma and Alex Caruso are the missing links while ignoring the fact that they haven’t been the missing links on their current teams, both of which are sub.500 teams with one being absolutely dreadful. But somehow one of those players is somehow gonna make a difference on this team (more so than the players they’d need to trade to get them)?

Caruso is a career journeyman. Nothing more, nothing less. Talk about setting a low bar.

I’m sure someone inevitably point to some “advanced statistics” or the fact that Caruso was a bench scrub on the Lakers manufactured “bubble” championship team in 2020 as some sort of evidence that I’m wrong about him. More power to them.

The point is, as soon as this franchise changes focus and loads up on the Alex Caruso types to fill out their roster, these same KINGS fans will be coveting the types of players the team once had. It’ll be “we play good defense, but can’t score consistently and don’t have a “go to” clutch time player“. Wash, rinse, repeat. :rolleyes:

Set your sights higher than Alex Caruso, people! This team is better off remaining status quo.

Last I checked they’ve been a top 3-5 team in the West with what they’ve currently got. Why eff with that to add a marginal at best player? Makes no sense.
Click to expand...

A career role-player whose one elite skill is his man-to-man defense? Sign me up! That's exactly what I'm looking for on the trade market if I'm the Kings GM. You may be right about Kings fans turning on guys like him if we were to see a profound dare I say unprecedented shift in team culture toward being a primarily defense-focused team. In fact, I know you're right because I've seen how we treat our defensive role-players now. But I welcome that chance nonetheless because I think bringing in a few more guys like Caruso would make us a better team. If we're trading multiple draft picks and/or a rotation player for anyone it better be for someone like Caruso. Or Herb Jones. Or De'Anthony Melton. Or Dejounte Murray. Or Xavier Tillman. Or Onyeka Okongwu. Mikal Bridges and Jimmy Butler are likely unobtainable but they would also be acceptable targets.
 
I am not sold on Caruso. His energy was impressive, but he also made 2 dumb plays fouling fox with few seconds on the shot clock. Those were not smart plays.
 
Last edited:
Posts from the Bulls RealGM board:

BeatDaCavs420 wrote: Sabionios is everything we wished that bum Vuc would've been
Click to expand...

Reply: Now THATS Jokic-lite

Everybody shat all over the Kings for trading Hali for him. I feel like it's one of those trades where both teams won
Click to expand...
 
sactowndog said:
I think doing well on challenges has to do with mental frame rate and the ability of coaches to see and decipher live what is occurring. The Kings seem to have limited coaches with NBA caliber frame rate to see what is happening live and make the correct call.
Click to expand...

Overturning bad calls isn't the only purpose of challenges. At least, doesn't have to be. In Brown's case, I think sometimes he just wants to stand up for his guys and show them that he will. I think there's value in that, even if the challenge "fails."
 
hrdboild said:
A career role-player whose one elite skill is his man-to-man defense? Sign me up! That's exactly what I'm looking for on the trade market if I'm the Kings GM. You may be right about Kings fans turning on guys like him if we were to see a profound dare I say unprecedented shift in team culture toward being a primarily defense-focused team. In fact, I know you're right because I've seen how we treat our defensive role-players now. But I welcome that chance nonetheless because I think bringing in a few more guys like Caruso would make us a better team. If we're trading multiple draft picks and/or a rotation player for anyone it better be for someone like Caruso. Or Herb Jones. Or De'Anthony Melton. Or Dejounte Murray. Or Xavier Tillman. Or Onyeka Okongwu. Mikal Bridges and Jimmy Butler are likely unobtainable but they would also be acceptable targets.
Click to expand...

https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/news/t...-pry-alex-caruso-from-the-chicago-bulls-hands
 
kingsfan101 said:
Just wonder if it also has to do with the fact that we are the Kings. IIRC, we were last in FT differential last year, and might be in the same range (if not dead last again) this year, given that teams typically tend to shoot more FTs than us (with some exceptions like tonight).

I would expect teams with a winning record to shoot more FTs, particularly as teams trying to catch up foul at the end to stop the game. Despite winning over the last 1.5 seasons, we routinely have bad FT numbers. Does it extend to challenges too?
Click to expand...

We were 2nd at one point and I think we finished 3rd at the end (Heat finished 2nd I think) last season waaaaaaay behind the Lakers that were on top last season and are on top this season as well despite having the fewest drives in the basket in the league. This season we are nowhere near the top teams but stuck at the bottom missing as well so many free throws.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1645812039397396480

Btw Warriors were dead last by faaaaaaaaar in that differential so in the playoffs series that we were against them and they were "crying" in social media about free throws etc, the Kings shot only 4 more in all the 7 matches which is not statistically equal to the huuuuuuge margin the two teams had in regular season
 
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