Building a bench

T

The Hammer

All-Star
#61
#61
kingsboi said:
Too many "If's" in your post. You are looking too far ahead and there are too many factors...how does a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in nearly 10 years all of a sudden have a chance to "maybe" take a series. They would be content with just making the postseason and giving the 1 or 2 seed a run for their money.
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We were contending for an 8th seed with Malone as our coach. You draft for a major defensive need. You sign a couple of free agents.

Not at all hard to imagine "maybe" taking a series.

Btw there's only one "if" in my post. And no, looking to next years playoffs and what we need to do to get there is not looking too far ahead.

I swear the negativity on this forum is hard to comprehend sometimes.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#62
#62
The Hammer said:
We were contending for an 8th seed with Malone as our coach. You draft for a major defensive need. You sign a couple of free agents.

Not at all hard to imagine "maybe" taking a series.

Btw there's only one "if" in my post. And no, looking to next years playoffs and what we need to do to get there is not looking too far ahead.

I swear the negativity on this forum is hard to comprehend sometimes.
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There isn't one "if" in your post. I clearly bolded the if's...which were three of them.

There is a difference between negativity and realism. We get caught up too much in that 30 game sample with Malone and a healthy team as if that was guaranteed to land us in the postseason. It was way too early in the season to say that.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#63
#63
The Hammer said:
We were contending for an 8th seed with Malone as our coach. You draft for a major defensive need. You sign a couple of free agents.

Not at all hard to imagine "maybe" taking a series.

Btw there's only one "if" in my post. And no, looking to next years playoffs and what we need to do to get there is not looking too far ahead.

I swear the negativity on this forum is hard to comprehend sometimes.
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I'm always surprised when people don't get the negativity. We're an awful franchise that has made awful decisions consistently for close to 10 years.

I'm more surprised that people can still be optimistic things will change.
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#64
#64
The Hammer said:
I would be ecstatic if our offseason cosisted of adding WCS, Rondo, and Wes Johnson.

That is absolutely a playoff team.

DWill, Casspi, Ray, and Moreland are your 9-12 guys... which is actually good talent at those spots, which means we both dramatically updraged our starting lineup, AND our bench in just a draft pick and two signings. That would be a HUGE win.

If we made the playoffs and maybe took a series, I could see Vlade in the running for Exec of the Year. Legitimately. People would be talking. The story of the turnaround would be too much to resist for just about every talking head.

In that case, McLemore becomes a key guy. If he can take another step forward, keep up/improve/make more consistent his shooting... that has a huge benefit for us.
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D-Will is useless and Johnson is only a step up. Both would be a mile behind Casspi. So why would Kings sign them?

P.S. Alan Anderson will be a much better safety net behind Ben: much more affordable, sure to play defense and just be a role player, 59.6eFG% on spot shooting. Has same size as...Winslow at 6'6", 220 and 8'8" reach, so he brings positional flexibility as well.
 
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T

The Hammer

All-Star
#65
#65
sdballer said:
I'm always surprised when people don't get the nawegativity. We're an awful franchise that has made awful decisions consistently for close to 10 years.

I'm more surprised that people can still be optimistic things will change.
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Guess we'll see.

Your post strikes me as overly general. The past is not the most accurate prediction of the future. What's happening right now is.

I don't deny the gigantic challenges we face. But they are mostly interpersonal ones. If you take a cold, hard look at our roster, it's actually pretty good, and very close to being very good. All it would take it a bit of winning and just about every interpersonal drama will vanish.

How are people not seeing that we've made drastic front office changes in the past three months? Now, if Vlade freakin Divac can't turn this thing around with the full authority of Vivek behind him... then yes, we're probably that cursed franchise you fantasize us to be.

Btw, when you say we're an awful "franchise that has made awful decisions for ten years"... those are not the same people over those ten years, and not the same conditions. There actually IS reason to HOPE at this point... our owner has gone through a very rough learning curve, but the major toxic leaders have been ousted (save perhaps Karl, we'll see how he behaves, Vlade seems to think he's "gotten the message"). But maybe it's too much energy to consider all the details and easier to just say "man we suck".

I personally can't do that.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#66
#66
The Hammer said:
Guess we'll see.

Your post strikes me as overly general. The past is not the most accurate prediction of the future. What's happening right now is.

I don't deny the gigantic challenges we face. But they are mostly interpersonal ones. If you take a cold, hard look at our roster, it's actually pretty good, and very close to being very good. All it would take it a bit of winning and just about every interpersonal drama will vanish.

How are people not seeing that we've made drastic front office changes in the past three months? Now, if Vlade freakin Divac can't turn this thing around with the full authority of Vivek behind him... then yes, we're probably that cursed franchise you fantasize us to be.

Btw, when you say we're an awful "franchise that has made awful decisions for ten years"... those are not the same people over those ten years, and not the same conditions. There actually IS reason to HOPE at this point... our owner has gone through a very rough learning curve, but the major toxic leaders have been ousted (save perhaps Karl, we'll see how he behaves, Vlade seems to think he's "gotten the message"). But maybe it's too much energy to consider all the details and easier to just say "man we suck".

I personally can't do that.
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We have an owner that may be learning his lessons but still has big question marks over his head including the statement from Malone that suggests he may know more about Vivek's role in his firing than we'd like to believe.

Vlade is the only change from the front office that sucked up until a few weeks ago. He's made a good pick and some hopeful statements about issues but we've hardly wiped away the incompetence from before and he has no other nba track record to use as a basis for success.

We have huge chemistry issues with our coach and best player. Even Vlade admits it could cost us one or both of them.

We also still have major holes in the roster with little cap space and assets to fix them.

Mostly, the light at the end of the tunnel has to do with hoping things couldn't get worse, that Vlade can get cuz/karl on the same page and that an untested FO can turn very little into the pieces we need to take the next step.

As a fan, I really hope that our hopes come to fruition but I'm not going to pretend there is as much if not more reasons to be pessimistic about the future.
 
A

Amit149

Bench
#67
#67
The Hammer said:
This is my thinking as well.

The thing is if we can collect a couple of those guys, take the Afflalo/Rondo example... all the sudden you have built a VERY good roster, into which buy in is more likely. It's like in chemistry where you need to get over the activation energy to a reaction, but once those guys are together (with our very good young core), they are likely to bring the best out of each other.

So much is dependable on having a functional leadership. It's everything.

I would absolutely gamble on Rondo AND Afflalo. Overpay, go over the cap, (cap will bump up soon anyway), and away we go. Maybe Casspi can take another leap as a defender if he's told to specialize in that. We get those guys and we are 6-8 seed very competitive, with a chance to really put it together over the next few years. That is a team on the rise, and a team that precisely guys like Rondo/Afflalo like to resuscitate their careers with. Play with best big man of your generation in a fan crazed city in a new arena with a Hall of Fame Coach? I think they might take that.
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I guess you are right! getting players that are known names but play like crap will make our roster look good, for that reason I want to bring up 3 other available and still active possible targets that can get our team from good to great:

1. Gilbert Arenas- 3 times NBA ALL-STAR, an ALL-NBA 2nd team (1) and third team (2) appearance and a MIP award. he is exactly what we need at PG!

2. Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)- NBA champion(!), NBA ALL-STAR, ALL-NBA third team, DPOY, 2 ALL-DEFENSIVE 1st team, 2 ALL-DEFENSIVE 2nd team- exactly what we need, a champion and great defender and a supporter of panda's... doesn't get much better than that!

3. Lamar Odom- 2 times NBA champion(!!), Sixth man of the year- Perfect role player for us, brings everything you ever wanted from a player next to Cousins and the glory of a Kardashian connection/

Again all 3 guys are active, and you can potentially hire them- probably in the price of one Rondo- I have no idea why we don't do it when this guys are competely overlooked by different teams... it's a gamble we must take!
 
T

The Hammer

All-Star
#68
#68
Amit149 said:
I guess you are right! getting players that are known names but play like crap will make our roster look good, for that reason I want to bring up 3 other available and still active possible targets that can get our team from good to great:

1. Gilbert Arenas- 3 times NBA ALL-STAR, an ALL-NBA 2nd team (1) and third team (2) appearance and a MIP award. he is exactly what we need at PG!

2. Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)- NBA champion(!), NBA ALL-STAR, ALL-NBA third team, DPOY, 2 ALL-DEFENSIVE 1st team, 2 ALL-DEFENSIVE 2nd team- exactly what we need, a champion and great defender and a supporter of panda's... doesn't get much better than that!

3. Lamar Odom- 2 times NBA champion(!!), Sixth man of the year- Perfect role player for us, brings everything you ever wanted from a player next to Cousins and the glory of a Kardashian connection/

Again all 3 guys are active, and you can potentially hire them- probably in the price of one Rondo- I have no idea why we don't do it when this guys are competely overlooked by different teams... it's a gamble we must take!
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Google the word "obtuse". Then stop being it.

Also, this might help (if not you, then other readers):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_analogy#False_analogy

Or this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

But while we're at it, this is fun!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

And the full list!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Conditional_or_questionable_fallacies
 
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A

Amit149

Bench
#69
#69
The Hammer said:
Google the word "obtuse". Then stop being it.

Also, this might help (if not you, then other readers):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_analogy#False_analogy

Or this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

But while we're at it, this is fun!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

And the full list!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Conditional_or_questionable_fallacies
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Let's make a deal- I'll do that,
meanwhile you can check what Rondo did this past few years and tell me how I'm wrong...
 
K

KingsCitizen

Starter
#70
#70
Now that we got WCS plus Moreland, it would be nice to get a local pride like Ryan Anderson who would address the stretch 4 need.
A Landry or JT plus Ray works in tradechecker. So it might be worth a try.
Asik could be moving to another team, so the Pels could be pretty interested in getting a big guy like JT, who often give AD fits.

Then we can pick-up Xavier Henry as well.
I believe his injury should be fully healed when the season starts so could pretty much a vet minimum player who could sit at the end of the bench and play 3 and D from time to time.

As for the rest of the cap left, I'll be fine with a Stuckey pickup as long as he's OK as a bench mob.

With this, we can address the point that Vlade see as a need. A back-up PG who can play in Karl's 2 PG system (since Stuckey is big enough too), a back-up 3 and D wing, and stretch big.
 
R

randymoss1881

Starter
#71
#71
Amit149 said:
I guess you are right! getting players that are known names but play like crap will make our roster look good, for that reason I want to bring up 3 other available and still active possible targets that can get our team from good to great:

1. Gilbert Arenas- 3 times NBA ALL-STAR, an ALL-NBA 2nd team (1) and third team (2) appearance and a MIP award. he is exactly what we need at PG!

2. Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)- NBA champion(!), NBA ALL-STAR, ALL-NBA third team, DPOY, 2 ALL-DEFENSIVE 1st team, 2 ALL-DEFENSIVE 2nd team- exactly what we need, a champion and great defender and a supporter of panda's... doesn't get much better than that!

3. Lamar Odom- 2 times NBA champion(!!), Sixth man of the year- Perfect role player for us, brings everything you ever wanted from a player next to Cousins and the glory of a Kardashian connection/

Again all 3 guys are active, and you can potentially hire them- probably in the price of one Rondo- I have no idea why we don't do it when this guys are competely overlooked by different teams... it's a gamble we must take!
Click to expand...
I'd take 2 of those guys over rondo and I'm being serious.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#72
#72
One of my pipe dreams was that for some reason the Bucks would decide they wanted Carl Landry to come home and trade Ilyasova for Carl & Ray McCallum. He's the kind of stretch 4 that I think the Kings want off the bench. Good move by Detroit to nab him IMO. On the free agent market I only really see Teletovic as a guy who can fill that role and I'm not all that excited by the idea of the Kings signing him.
 
A

Amit149

Bench
#73
#73
funkykingston said:
One of my pipe dreams was that for some reason the Bucks would decide they wanted Carl Landry to come home and trade Ilyasova for Carl & Ray McCallum. He's the kind of stretch 4 that I think the Kings want off the bench. Good move by Detroit to nab him IMO. On the free agent market I only really see Teletovic as a guy who can fill that role and I'm not all that excited by the idea of the Kings signing him.
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There are some other stretch 4's out there (though I'm not so excited at getting one of them),
Jonas Jerebko from Boston is an example of one- high energy with good shooting (40.6% in his stint in Boston, 41.9% last year). another guy I can think of is Charlie Villanueva (I'm starting to realize Detroit have ruined a lot of good players rep by overpaying them) he is not a great shooter, but he takes a bunch of 3's and have hit them at a good 37.6% and floats around the 35% line for his career.

And then you have Bargs who I don't think needs any introduction, and it seems like people here are all about salvaging 29 year olds careers- Andrea Bargnani is as good a bet as any and he is up for grabs probably for small amout of money...
 
T

The Hammer

All-Star
#74
#74
Amit149 said:
Let's make a deal- I'll do that,
meanwhile you can check what Rondo did this past few years and tell me how I'm wrong...
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You're simply wrong because Rondo is not like Gilbert freaking Arenas. And he's 29.

I can come up with just as many examples of guys who had an off year or two due to injury/being in the wrong system/etc., then came to a new place to resuscitate their careers. Ironically Metta World Peace is exactly such a player. He did that while with the Kings. Chris Webber's another.
 
macadocious

macadocious

Starter
#78
#78
Capt. Factorial said:
Seems a bit premature on declaring DWill an unrestricted free agent. It seems unlikely that we're going to extend a QO, but we technically have until tomorrow to do so.
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If we extend him a QO, here is how that would go.

Vlade: Hey Derrick, we have decided to extend you a Qualif(cuts him off)
Derrick: I'll take it!!!
 
A

Amit149

Bench
#79
#79
Capt. Factorial said:
Seems a bit premature on declaring DWill an unrestricted free agent. It seems unlikely that we're going to extend a QO, but we technically have until tomorrow to do so.
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Well that's on Jeff Goodman, not me...

I'm not sure how i feel about this, but the more important part for me is that our main concern is PG... Ty/Bledsoe/Rondo rumors are getting more and more talked about by reporters.
 
HndsmCelt

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#81
#81
Capt. Factorial said:
Seems a bit premature on declaring DWill an unrestricted free agent. It seems unlikely that we're going to extend a QO, but we technically have until tomorrow to do so.
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Could be a cap maneuver. We make him unrestricted then we have his whole 8 mill available, and we can sign him later perhaps even for less than the 4 mill QO.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#82
#82
sdballer said:
We have an owner that may be learning his lessons but still has big question marks over his head including the statement from Malone that suggests he may know more about Vivek's role in his firing than we'd like to believe.

Vivek has given Vlade full authority. See the draft process as evidence.

Vlade is the only change from the front office that sucked up until a few weeks ago. He's made a good pick and some hopeful statements about issues but we've hardly wiped away the incompetence from before and he has no other nba track record to use as a basis for success.

Vlade is untainted from previous front office experience. he was not involved in previous bad decisions and has already shown a steady hand as he navigated through the Fegan trade media circus.

We have huge chemistry issues with our coach and best player. Even Vlade admits it could cost us one or both of them.

When adversity strikes, that's when you have to be the most calm. Take a step back, stay strong, stay grounded and press on.
LL Cool J

We also still have major holes in the roster with little cap space and assets to fix them.

We have the Best center in the NBA, A top rated starting five and a Defensive Stud Rookie. Our two young SG's are sure to have improved with another season under their belts.


Mostly, the light at the end of the tunnel has to do with hoping things couldn't get worse, that Vlade can get cuz/karl on the same page and that an untested FO can turn very little into the pieces we need to take the next step.

We have the Kings in Sacto! It was not that long ago when Seattle and Ballmer were at the doorstep! Brother that is a New Arena going up in Downtown Sacramento!!!

As a fan, I really hope that our hopes come to fruition but I'm not going to pretend there is as much if not more reasons to be pessimistic about the future.
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As a fan, I really hope that our hopes come to fruition and I am going to remain optimistic about the future.

The glass can be half full if you let it:)

KB
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#83
#83
sdballer said:
I'm always surprised when people don't get the negativity. We're an awful franchise that has made awful decisions consistently for close to 10 years.

I'm more surprised that people can still be optimistic things will change.
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Glass half full vs. glass half empty ??

Ignorance is bliss?

Who knows.. I am pissed about this team, but I am not going to let it bug me until I see what they're doing in the preseason and regular season. So right now I am a half full guy..
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#86
#86
sdballer said:
I'm always surprised when people don't get the negativity. We're an awful franchise that has made awful decisions consistently for close to 10 years.

I'm more surprised that people can still be optimistic things will change.
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So to your mind, there's only one option, being miserable and negative. I want no part of that world. It's one thing to recognize what's wrong with the team, and its past history, but we don't have to wallow in it day after day after day. I don't understand people that are always negative. But then they probably don't understand me. All I can say to them, is enjoy your world of despair without hope. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm headed back out to the sunshine and the beach. :rolleyes:
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#88
#88
The Hammer said:
We were contending for an 8th seed with Malone as our coach. You draft for a major defensive need. You sign a couple of free agents.

Not at all hard to imagine "maybe" taking a series.

Btw there's only one "if" in my post. And no, looking to next years playoffs and what we need to do to get there is not looking too far ahead.

I swear the negativity on this forum is hard to comprehend sometimes.
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But after 6 years of reading this board it is not hard to see negativity at every moment. But I get your point. We are not in bad shape at the moment and have every reason to believe it will get significantly better soon. Hang in there.
 
Bosnian Diehard

Bosnian Diehard

Starter
#89
#89
@SpearsNBAYahoo: The Kings, Nuggets, Magic & Pelicans have expressed early interest in free agent forward Quincy Acy, a source said. Acy avg 5.9, 4.4 ’14-15.

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Ehhhhhh....
 
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