Brad's an emotional guy...

[Variant]

Dunno why that other thread was closed.

Anyways, Brad's an emotional guy; always has been. As a result he's pretty prone to making a couple silly errors every game depending on his mood. At least that's what I've seen over the years... you get the bad with the good.

Tonight he seemed a little frustrated at times, and usually that means he's going to try a little harder to make up for it, which generally leads to him swinging his elbows, trying to be a PG or taking it hard to the hole when he's just going to get swatted. It's been the same for years with him. That's just Brad.

At this point in his career he's not going to change much either. He's still the best passer on the team though... just has a delicate psyche.

 

[upinsmoke]

He's gotta go!

 

[Variant]

I still think he usually is a positive force out there.. but I'm sure he'll go sooner than later. He's getting paid a LOT.

 

[VF21]

The other thread was closed because the name-calling was totally unnecessary. People can post their comments, etc. without resorting to personal insults.

 

[upinsmoke]

The kings got to get rid of him because to be realistic he is not a part of the big picture of the Kings future and it would be in our best interest to get some value out of him.

 

[Showtime]

Maybe he should mellow out with a bit of...oh wait nvm.

 

[VF21]

People tend to forget IMHO that "value" is a relative term. Right now, we're probably getting more value from him as a mentor for Hawes than we'd get in any kind of trade for him.

No, he's not part of the big picture in the future of the Kings but that doesn't mean he doesn't have value right now.

 

[fiction916]

his temper on the court is valueless

 

[Showtime]

People tend to forget IMHO that "value" is a relative term. Right now, we're probably getting more value from him as a mentor for Hawes than we'd get in any kind of trade for him.

No, he's not part of the big picture in the future of the Kings but that doesn't mean he doesn't have value right now.

As for value, he's a great passer on the high post, especially for Martin who cuts to the basket well. Brad is averaging 6 assists a game, which is incredible for a center. If the Kings deal him during his expiring year, I can get with that. However, if they want to look to resign him for a small deal to backup Hawes, I wouldn't mind that either because he can still play, but in a limited way. He's not the former all star, but he's still the league's best passing big man.

 

[Aenadin]

brad pulled a homer and took pills that would pep him up and at the same time make him drowsy...

the guy needs to go... i dont want this guy to mentor hawes or any young ones, on a contending team brad can be an asset but here i dont think he is starting material...

he may have the talents like the shooting and the passing but i dont think he has enough BB IQ to make the offense work... hes more of a slugger and a thug if he can only get his nastyness back he could help us get a couple of Ws...
point is we should start shopping him around while he is producing these numbers

 

[Prince_XY]

I think Miller is still the best starter center for the Kings. No one has the capability yet of facilitating the offense more than Miller, not even our current point guards. Just take a look at those wins and Miller had always been a significant contributor in those wins.

Miller had been a double-double ( rebs and points ), averaging probably 3-5 assists and 1 block per game. He made Martin look more efficient as a scorer, and facilitated the offense exceptionally well as a center. If you can find any other center who can do the same for the team, then by all means let's get him and dump Miller.

But right now IMO, we are better with Miller than without him.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

well than I think the question is whats more valuable .. brads influence on spencer or brads minutes .. I tend to go with actually be out on the court at this point.

 

[bajaden]

brad pulled a homer and took pills that would pep him up and at the same time make him drowsy...

the guy needs to go... i dont want this guy to mentor hawes or any young ones, on a contending team brad can be an asset but here i dont think he is starting material...

he may have the talents like the shooting and the passing but i dont think he has enough BB IQ to make the offense work... hes more of a slugger and a thug if he can only get his nastyness back he could help us get a couple of Ws...
point is we should start shopping him around while he is producing these numbers

Did I miss something here. Is Brad being blamed for losing the game? He scored 20 points, grabbed 11 rebounds and had 7 assists. And, oh yes he had 6 turnovers, and one of those was at a bad time in the game. Was he the best player on the floor tonight? NO! Actually, my vote would go to Spencer.

If I had to pick a goat in this game it would be Bobby Brown. He came in the second quarter and stunk the place out, and singlehandedly put us in the hole. Of course that didn't happen in the closing minutes of the game, so I guess it doesn't count.

Lets keep things in prespective here. Brad made some mistakes, but he wasn't the only person to make mistakes. Hey, at least Mikkie had his one rebound again. you gotta love his consistantcy.

 

[Peja]

I think Miller is still the best starter center for the Kings. No one has the capability yet of facilitating the offense more than Miller, not even our current point guards. Just take a look at those wins and Miller had always been a significant contributor in those wins.

Miller had been a double-double ( rebs and points ), averaging probably 3-5 assists and 1 block per game. He made Martin look more efficient as a scorer, and facilitated the offense exceptionally well as a center. If you can find any other center who can do the same for the team, then by all means let's get him and dump Miller.

But right now IMO, we are better with Miller than without him.

Word!

 

[Sac.1989]

well than I think the question is whats more valuable .. brads influence on spencer or brads minutes .. I tend to go with actually be out on the court at this point.

both are valuable, id like to keep brad around just to really help spencers development. Theres noone that fits spencers game more than brad so really we should be trying to squeeze what we can out of him to help our future.

 

[Eclipse]

I like Brad because he wears his heart on his jersey. Who can't like a guy that makes million of dollars a year but still shows that much emotion out there, and gets mad like the rest of us. Sure, he made some bonehead mistakes (I yelled at the TV in anguish), but not particulary because I was mad at him (well, ok, maybe a little), but rather because we ended up losing the ball, or because the pass didn't exactly work out. I consider him part family, like a favorite TV character, and who doesn't like to root for the underdog? (rhetorical question!). I've learned to appreciate my favorite players while they're here, and not to always think the grass is greener...

 

[Aenadin]

im not saying he is the reason for the loss.. for all we know the entire team made some mistakes.... im just stressing out the point that he is more likely suited for a contending team based on his numbers...

i focused more on brad cause of the topic and the title of the thread

 

[=LarryLegend=]

The B52 Bonger was an ok passer at indy, but didnt really become one of the best passing centers until he came here and vlade brought him along.

I think Hawes can learner alot from brad. he can get better at the pick and pop/roll. also how to read defenses better and passing.

 

[Bricklayer]

The B52 Bonger was an ok passer at indy, but didnt really become one of the best passing centers until he came here and vlade brought him along.

I think Hawes can learner alot from brad. he can get better at the pick and pop/roll. also how to read defenses better and passing.

Brad was actually always an excellent passer -- part of the reason some of us old timers were calling for that trade all those years ago. Indy just did not use a system to take advnatage of it, and rarely had the ball in his hands where he could do anything with it.

And while I am hoping somebody takes a shot on him, if Brad is any contender's answer there has been no sign of it whatsoever during a long and mediocre career in the win column. The only real success he ever had was with us on the backs of the golden age players, and until last season's stirring 38 win campaign we had gotten worse every year he was with us. If he does go to somebody, it will need to be somebody who already has the defense and post play (i.e. the things that big men do that actually win basketbal games) taken care of, and who just needs a roleplayer who can spread the floor. Still think Orlando was silly to reject the idea of taking him -- could have worked nicely next to Howard.

 

[ZZE916]

People tend to forget IMHO that "value" is a relative term. Right now, we're probably getting more value from him as a mentor for Hawes than we'd get in any kind of trade for him.

No, he's not part of the big picture in the future of the Kings but that doesn't mean he doesn't have value right now.

I couldn't agree more. Brad may lead the team in assists this year. Although that's usually not the stat you want for your starting center, it does allow Hawes to pick up some tips on how to expand his game.
For me, the most exciting thing about the team from the glory years was ALL the players were incredible passers. That led to ball movement that I have never seen before, and may never see again. It also led to a team that could confuse any other team in the league.

 

[RalphySampson]

Brad IS NOT the kind of guy that you want on your team during his last few years in the league. It seems as though the more his body slows down, the harder he tries to prove to himself that it's not. If I had to guess, I'd say that 8 of the last 10 times he's tried to put the ball on the floor and take it to the hole he's either lost the ball and turned it over or gotten rejected by the bigs waiting for him. Probably 9 out of 10 times he blamed the referees for not calling a foul and a few times he committed stupid fouls immediately after.

He's just not ready to admit that he's slowing down and that all he's good for is shooting jumpers and passing the basketball. Furthermore, he's always the clown that has to impose his stupid rules on the rookies like wearing silly backpacks or carrying his luggage. Yes, I know these things are tradition in the NBA but I just find it funny that he's always the one talking about it. I think Brad has a case of "Big fish in a little pond" syndrome. If you put him on a team like the Lakers, Celtics, or Pistons they would probably think he was a joke, but he loves being the "Big Dog" here with this younger rebuilding team.

I'm really hoping we can dump him before the trade deadline this season. There was a time and a place for Brad on this team and city, but that time is gone now. I'm ready to send his annoying whiny face to another city.

 

[bajaden]

Brad IS NOT the kind of guy that you want on your team during his last few years in the league. It seems as though the more his body slows down, the harder he tries to prove to himself that it's not. If I had to guess, I'd say that 8 of the last 10 times he's tried to put the ball on the floor and take it to the hole he's either lost the ball and turned it over or gotten rejected by the bigs waiting for him. Probably 9 out of 10 times he blamed the referees for not calling a foul and a few times he committed stupid fouls immediately after.

He's just not ready to admit that he's slowing down and that all he's good for is shooting jumpers and passing the basketball. Furthermore, he's always the clown that has to impose his stupid rules on the rookies like wearing silly backpacks or carrying his luggage. Yes, I know these things are tradition in the NBA but I just find it funny that he's always the one talking about it. I think Brad has a case of "Big fish in a little pond" syndrome. If you put him on a team like the Lakers, Celtics, or Pistons they would probably think he was a joke, but he loves being the "Big Dog" here with this younger rebuilding team.

I'm really hoping we can dump him before the trade deadline this season. There was a time and a place for Brad on this team and city, but that time is gone now. I'm ready to send his annoying whiny face to another city.

I'm always surprised by the vitriol dislike some people have for others ( put in Miller here ). I wonder how much thought process goes into it? Or is it all based on the emotion of the moment.

Its ironic that two years ago, Miller moved like he was in Molasses. He was overweight and out of shape. A mere shell of what he had been a few years eariler. I guess success can do that to you. He woke up, probably with some prodding, and returned to the Miller that we originally traded for. Or, at least close to it.

It reminds me of when people were calling for Adelman's head and are now regreting it. Be careful what you wish for.

Look! I'm all for moving Miller. But only if the right deal comes along. A no brainer. As of now, his presence doesn't seem to be affecting Hawes playing time. As a matter of fact. Its Mikkie that I would like to see moved. And its nothing against Mikkie. He is what he is, and he's never pretended or suggested otherwise. Its that his absence would mean a three man rotation of Miller, Hawes, and Thompson, with Williams getting minutes here and there.

Sorry to be so long winded, but sometimes these kneejerk reactions just surprise me. You'd think I would be used to it by now.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm always surprised by the vitriol dislike some people have for others ( put in Miller here ). I wonder how much thought process goes into it? Or is it all based on the emotion of the moment.

Its ironic that two years ago, Miller moved like he was in Molasses. He was overweight and out of shape. A mere shell of what he had been a few years eariler. I guess success can do that to you. He woke up, probably with some prodding, and returned to the Miller that we originally traded for. Or, at least close to it.

It reminds me of when people were calling for Adelman's head and are now regreting it. Be careful what you wish for.

Look! I'm all for moving Miller. But only if the right deal comes along. A no brainer. As of now, his presence doesn't seem to be affecting Hawes playing time. As a matter of fact. Its Mikkie that I would like to see moved. And its nothing against Mikkie. He is what he is, and he's never pretended or suggested otherwise. Its that his absence would mean a three man rotation of Miller, Hawes, and Thompson, with Williams getting minutes here and there.

Sorry to be so long winded, but sometimes these kneejerk reactions just surprise me. You'd think I would be used to it by now.

The only reasons Brad hasn't effected Spencer's playing time yet is a) because the largest cut has come from JT, and b) we haven't been fully healthy. Once we are, there just are not the minutes. And to the degree that we cut back Brad's minutes drastically to make the minutes for the kids, there goes his trade value.

People, including of course Geoff, have been slow slow and slower all along about doing what has to be done in a rebuild. Clearing highpriced vets out of the way of your kids is part of that. Its what just happeend in Detroit to their Finals MVP. Let's get this done, and move on.

 

[BMiller52]

Brad needes to stop losing us games. He's constantly having meltdowns and making stupid mistakes. Hawes has much more composure than Brad, and if Hawes weren't foul prone I'd love to see him play 35 minutes and Brad 10.

 

[Gary]

The kings got to get rid of him because to be realistic he is not a part of the big picture of the Kings future and it would be in our best interest to get some value out of him.

ugh...

I think we keep him. He sees the floor better than any other player on the team, and w/o him the offense would go under.

 

[quick dog]

I did not see the game. I would have to assume that Brad stunk-up the joint last night. He has certian qualities, but performance-consistency required to win the whole enchalada is not one of them.

 

[bajaden]

The only reasons Brad hasn't effected Spencer's playing time yet is a) because the largest cut has come from JT, and b) we haven't been fully healthy. Once we are, there just are not the minutes. And to the degree that we cut back Brad's minutes drastically to make the minutes for the kids, there goes his trade value.

People, including of course Geoff, have been slow slow and slower all along about doing what has to be done in a rebuild. Clearing highpriced vets out of the way of your kids is part of that. Its what just happeend in Detroit to their Finals MVP. Let's get this done, and move on.

I'm not sure what the brain trust of the Kings is thinking, but if I had to guess, it would be to let things play out till the trading deadline and see what things look like then. I'm not sure where the blame lies with the indecision to move to the future. Of course Geoff is the poster boy for the organization, so he's paid to take the heat.

Personally, I would prefer to move on past the Miller age. But not just for the sake of doing it. Regardless what some on this fourm think, he has value around the league, and I would expect value in return for him. The problem is, that his greatest value may be, to just stay put until his contract expires, and opens up cap space for us.

Not my personal choice. If it has to remain as it is, then I would prefer Hawes to start with Miller. Let Mikkie back up Miller and let Thompson back up Hawes, while eventually reducing Mikkie's minutes.

 

[VF21]

I did not see the game. I would have to assume that Brad stunk-up the joint last night. He has certian qualities, but performance-consistency required to win the whole enchalada is not one of them.

You would? Why? Brad DIDN'T stink up the joint. And to make that assumption from a few comments here is patently unfair IMHO.

I know it's considered the in-thing to dump on Brad... or John ... or Kenny ... or whomever seems to incur the wrath of message board fans but it's simply not always valid.

Brad may have made some bonehead plays but his hustle and rebounding kept the Kings into the game enough to even get to overtime.

The game was sloppy for the first three quarters, plain and simple. In the fourth quarter, however, things turned around and we might have won. We didn't but I'm not unhappy with the result. IF Quincy Douby had hit the wide open three at the end of regulation, we would have won outright. It just didn't happen.

--------

As far as Miller's value, am I really the only one who thinks there's a reason for Miller to be mentoring Hawes, while Moore mentors Thompson and Bobby Jackson mentors the guards?????? It's the passing of the torch, NBA-style, and I think Petrie and the Kings know exactly what they're doing. They want to utilize the vets while the kids learn the ropes. I'm watching Hawes especially, learn from almost every game, and one of the things he's already starting to do more is look for the cutter, one of the things I've always liked best about Brad and Vlade before him.

I think we're headed in the right direction. If the pace is too slow for some, I guess maybe I'm just more patient, possibly because I truly believe I can see a pattern emerging that is going to bring dividends before too long.

 

[HighTopKicks]

As far as Miller's value, am I really the only one who thinks there's a reason for Miller to be mentoring Hawes, while Moore mentors Thompson and Bobby Jackson mentors the guards?????? It's the passing of the torch, NBA-style, and I think Petrie and the Kings know exactly what they're doing. They want to utilize the vets while the kids learn the ropes. I'm watching Hawes especially, learn from almost every game, and one of the things he's already starting to do more is look for the cutter, one of the things I've always liked best about Brad and Vlade before him.

I think we're headed in the right direction. If the pace is too slow for some, I guess maybe I'm just more patient, possibly because I truly believe I can see a pattern emerging that is going to bring dividends before too long.

Ok, I can agree. But, when Miller drives into the lane and gets blocked or just loses the ball, he isn't helping the team or mentoring anyone. It's time to start running the hi post pick and rolls through Hawes & JT. Not everytime, but more often. Miller has become a two dimentional player. He's either going to pass or jump shoot, and defenses know it.

 

[bajaden]

Ok, I can agree. But, when Miller drives into the lane and gets blocked or just loses the ball, he isn't helping the team or mentoring anyone. It's time to start running the hi post pick and rolls through Hawes & JT. Not everytime, but more often. Miller has become a two dimentional player. He's either going to pass or jump shoot, and defenses know it.

My biggest problem with Miller is not that he occasionally gets a shot blocked, or that he turns the ball over. That can happen to anyone in the flow of the game. My problem with him, is that it sometimes happens after he passes up a wide open shot. I understand that you have all of a tenth of a second to decide what to do. But for God's sake, if its a wide open shot, take the shot.

One of the things that I have liked about Thompson, is that when he's open on the right wing, he takes the shot without hesitation. You either make it or you don't. Other than that, I don't have that much of problem with Miller.

Mikkie is another story. I don't dislike Mikkie, but, one rebound a game at home just doesn't cut it. How many teams around the league would start Mikkie at PF? I'm not going to do the research, but I would think its very few. You don't have to be a starter to mentor. The best mentor the Kings ever had was Pete Carrill, and he wasn't even a player.