Bjax in the news - for the wrong reason
- Thread starter Jose
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I respect you and bajaden way too much to get in the middle of that. You're both talking personal experience and i don't have any as either a player or an official.
There were several tweets that seemed to indicate that Bobby wasn't really out of line, that he said what a normal enthusiastic father might say, and that the official seemed hell bent on making it personal between them right from the beginning. I kinda based some of my assumptions on those tweets.
All in all, I think the OP did a bit of a disservice with his initial comment about the whole incident. As a result, I think some might have gone into the story with a preconceived notion.
Either way, I'm on the side of Bobby AND people who volunteer their time for various youth sports activities.
There were several tweets that seemed to indicate that Bobby wasn't really out of line, that he said what a normal enthusiastic father might say, and that the official seemed hell bent on making it personal between them right from the beginning. I kinda based some of my assumptions on those tweets.
All in all, I think the OP did a bit of a disservice with his initial comment about the whole incident. As a result, I think some might have gone into the story with a preconceived notion.
Either way, I'm on the side of Bobby AND people who volunteer their time for various youth sports activities.
I respect you and bajaden way too much to get in the middle of that. You're both talking personal experience and i don't have any as either a player or an official.
There were several tweets that seemed to indicate that Bobby wasn't really out of line, that he said what a normal enthusiastic father might say, and that the official seemed hell bent on making it personal between them right from the beginning. I kinda based some of my assumptions on those tweets.
All in all, I think the OP did a bit of a disservice with his initial comment about the whole incident. As a result, I think some might have gone into the story with a preconceived notion.
Either way, I'm on the side of Bobby AND people who volunteer their time for various youth sports activities.
There were several tweets that seemed to indicate that Bobby wasn't really out of line, that he said what a normal enthusiastic father might say, and that the official seemed hell bent on making it personal between them right from the beginning. I kinda based some of my assumptions on those tweets.
All in all, I think the OP did a bit of a disservice with his initial comment about the whole incident. As a result, I think some might have gone into the story with a preconceived notion.
Either way, I'm on the side of Bobby AND people who volunteer their time for various youth sports activities.
Here's a good article on violence against officials including a soccer ref that was killed earlier this year. What's the solution?
http://www.momsteam.com/team-moms/c...-sports-officials-and-reduce-risk-of-violence
It's a big issue but it also coincides with a lot of what is going on in society and is beyond the scope of this forum.
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BJax's incident has NOTHING to do with Glenn, or out-of-control dads, or soccer refs getting killed.
All we can do is form our opinions based on the reported information.
And VF21 has posted the limited information repeatedly.
It CLEARLY shows that the ref was at fault.
There has not been one report that has detailed anything Bobby possibly did that warranted a stoppage of play, or the game being cancelled.
As I read it, there were corroborated statements of what Bobby did:
1) 3 minutes into the game, he called out for the ref to let the kids play.
2) The ref immediately moved to kick Bobby out of the gym.
That is an utter dick move by the REF, not BJax.
All we can do is form our opinions based on the reported information.
And VF21 has posted the limited information repeatedly.
It CLEARLY shows that the ref was at fault.
There has not been one report that has detailed anything Bobby possibly did that warranted a stoppage of play, or the game being cancelled.
As I read it, there were corroborated statements of what Bobby did:
1) 3 minutes into the game, he called out for the ref to let the kids play.
2) The ref immediately moved to kick Bobby out of the gym.
That is an utter dick move by the REF, not BJax.
If the reports you outlined are correct, then Bobby was apparently out of line according to another parent. I have no idea what happened, as i was not there. I would like to think he did nothing, but who knows. As i said in a previous post, parents need to just stfu at kids sporting events. Unless something the ref is doing is putting the kids in harms way, they should just sit back, cheer for their kids and keep their traps shut if they don't like how the game is being officiated. Let the coaches handle it.
In an unfair world, ref is suppose to make the game as fair as it can be. I'm not saying they should be perfect but when they do make mistake people should be able to point it out especially in a child's game. The ref got couple of choices to react and personally I think this ref chose to get defensive and to me that is childish. From what I've read, it seems Bobby was questioning the ref's decision in a reasonable way. If being an adult is not to speak up when you see something is wrong or unfair (not a jerk kind of way of course) then I rather continue being wrong like Bobby.
I agreed with Glenn that there are parents/fans that take it to the extreme but in this case, IMO the ref took it to the extreme.
I agreed with Glenn that there are parents/fans that take it to the extreme but in this case, IMO the ref took it to the extreme.
Why does the parent though need to be that person pointing it out? All that does is open the door for unnecessary drama to ensue, which then takes the focus off of what is important...the kids. Why not just let the coaches and AD's address the issues if the officiating is truly that egregious. That is their job, not the parents. Not disagreeing with everything you said, i am just over parents running their mouths at kids sporting events, no matter how minor or major it may be.
I specifically pointed out racism would not be tolerated. I'd also say threats wouldn't be tolerated either.
I think you're jumping to assumptions. Arguing a bad call or heckling isn't "anything goes". And if it's not something you'd kick fans out for saying to players, I fail to see the issue other than this ref is a pansy. When playing I was always heckled. Even at a young age you know how many times I heard "whiteboy can't do this", "whiteboy can't do that", yet it's part of the game and if it didn't bother me, why is a ref kicking a fan out for questioning calls?
Players deal with much worse than refs during games yet don't really care. Actually, they enjoy it. It's why so many like playing on the road.
I think you're jumping to assumptions. Arguing a bad call or heckling isn't "anything goes". And if it's not something you'd kick fans out for saying to players, I fail to see the issue other than this ref is a pansy. When playing I was always heckled. Even at a young age you know how many times I heard "whiteboy can't do this", "whiteboy can't do that", yet it's part of the game and if it didn't bother me, why is a ref kicking a fan out for questioning calls?
Players deal with much worse than refs during games yet don't really care. Actually, they enjoy it. It's why so many like playing on the road.
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These are not professional coaches and not all of them are vocal. From the little detail that I got, it seems the ref was whistle hungry and obviously Bobby felt the need to bring it up. If the coach took care of it, I doubt any parents including Bobby would feel the need to speak up.
My kid is only 3 so I guess I'm not where you at yet and may not understand. Hopefully I will have a better understanding once I'm in that position.
I'm still happy Bobby is still part of the franchise....can't wait to see what the Kings will look like at the start of the season.
My kid is only 3 so I guess I'm not where you at yet and may not understand. Hopefully I will have a better understanding once I'm in that position.
I'm still happy Bobby is still part of the franchise....can't wait to see what the Kings will look like at the start of the season.
I did get the hell out of the kitchen. Then there was one less umpire and as I was good, there was one less good umpire. It becomes a self perpetuating prophecy. As the job becomes less enjoyable, the quality of umpire is lessened. This attitude that it is OK to heckle the kids and heckle the umpires takes the fun out of it. THAT is a reality. Pay me some money and I might be more willing to tolerate it.
If you think I did the job poorly, you are way off. I never had trouble with fans as I could defuse anger. Most of the guys I worked with were very good at it and certainly weren't of the quality that was at the game Jackson attended. I frankly have never heard of a game canceled because of a row between an official and a fan. I am talking about the leagues I umpired in. That's absurd and I have said that before. As people seemingly and perhaps deliberately have an inability to piece together more than one note at a time, I will say it all again. The rules of the organization I umpired specifically called for good behavior by the fans and on a whole, they were great. I don't know when anger and bitching became part of the sport but at the high school level and below I think that that is absurd.
After one game I almost got beaten for the opposing coach's stupidity. It's a long story but it clearly had nothing to do with the quality of the umpires. The coach made a mistake because of his lack of knowledge of the rules and when his team lost, the parents waited after the game in the parking lot to get us. Would it have been OK if I was beaten? Are fans and coaches always right and the officials always wrong? There comes a slippery slope on how much anger is "OK." At the high school level, not much was allowed and the game was not hurt nor do I suspect fans felt cheated because they had to watch the game and not pick on umpires. Think of the level we are talking about. We are assuming Bobby was correct. He may have been but that's a helluva assumption.
No, I didn't tolerate grief but I never kicked anyone out of a game. Between innings I would talk to the person who was over amped and calm him down. It always worked. Other umpires handled the problems differently but the games flowed and the tempers were under control. The demeanor of the official has a lot to do with how the game goes. In the case we are talking about (Bobby), both seemed to be looking for a fight and as I have said over and over, the game shouldn't have been stopped. If I was the chief official of that league, I'd have a serious discussion with the official involved.
I took on the job because of the kids. Novel concept. It never came naturally but I was good.
We all read into the story what we wish. No one has mentioned that not all parents agreed with Bobby. No one has mentioned that Bobby's son called him "intimidating." Nobody mentioned that Bobby's son was not allowed to be on camera. The only time I saw an entire team's parents go on the attack was when the coach was out of control. The fans look for a leader and then pack mentality takes over. When the umpire/referee becomes more of interest than the kids, something has been lost and I fault all sides on that. It's a two way street and people are acting like it is open season on officials and one note says it is OK to heckle the kids. Really??? When do we start heckling kids? When they are 10? When the are 12? When they are 15? When they are 18? I don't think it is ever right to heckle kids and if that started, I would defend the kid. I never saw it however. Maybe Carmichael is just too pleasant and well mannered.
If you can't understand that open season on officials mean that fewer people will be officials, you are being deliberately dull. Making the environment bad for everybody discourages quality players and officials from taking part. That should never be a goal whether intended or not.
Edit: as a fan I was not nice although I tried very hard to realize these officials are not pros and should not be held to the standards of professional officials who have enough troubles. (Did you know that the best NBA refs are right just a little over 90% of the time?) I was right on the edge and if the refs were incompetent, I had to bite my lip and didn't succeed all the time. We are dealing with humans who have taken on a thankless job and I hope fans understand that. No one tells the umpire they did a good job when they did a good job except for a few coaches and officials. Fns do not so that. Fans are there to support their kids and enjoy the game and sometimes to be critical of officials and being fair is far down the line of priorities.
My whole goal was to be perfect and make the experience pleasurable for all. I was close on the former although I may have missed a ball or strike call. I never missed a call in the field until I got older and when that happened, I quit for the good of all. BTW, I loved what I did as unnatural as it all seemed to me. I never played any sport at a high level so there was a lot of on the job training. Not every official pops out of the egg fully formed and perfect. I could give a long list of coaches who appreciated what I did.
And, yes, bajaden, my thin skin made me a poor choice as an official. That didn't mean I was a ranting lunatic and didn't mean I was bad. I just swallowed my anxiety and barreled onward. It's about the kids, ya know.
If you think I did the job poorly, you are way off. I never had trouble with fans as I could defuse anger. Most of the guys I worked with were very good at it and certainly weren't of the quality that was at the game Jackson attended. I frankly have never heard of a game canceled because of a row between an official and a fan. I am talking about the leagues I umpired in. That's absurd and I have said that before. As people seemingly and perhaps deliberately have an inability to piece together more than one note at a time, I will say it all again. The rules of the organization I umpired specifically called for good behavior by the fans and on a whole, they were great. I don't know when anger and bitching became part of the sport but at the high school level and below I think that that is absurd.
After one game I almost got beaten for the opposing coach's stupidity. It's a long story but it clearly had nothing to do with the quality of the umpires. The coach made a mistake because of his lack of knowledge of the rules and when his team lost, the parents waited after the game in the parking lot to get us. Would it have been OK if I was beaten? Are fans and coaches always right and the officials always wrong? There comes a slippery slope on how much anger is "OK." At the high school level, not much was allowed and the game was not hurt nor do I suspect fans felt cheated because they had to watch the game and not pick on umpires. Think of the level we are talking about. We are assuming Bobby was correct. He may have been but that's a helluva assumption.
No, I didn't tolerate grief but I never kicked anyone out of a game. Between innings I would talk to the person who was over amped and calm him down. It always worked. Other umpires handled the problems differently but the games flowed and the tempers were under control. The demeanor of the official has a lot to do with how the game goes. In the case we are talking about (Bobby), both seemed to be looking for a fight and as I have said over and over, the game shouldn't have been stopped. If I was the chief official of that league, I'd have a serious discussion with the official involved.
I took on the job because of the kids. Novel concept. It never came naturally but I was good.
We all read into the story what we wish. No one has mentioned that not all parents agreed with Bobby. No one has mentioned that Bobby's son called him "intimidating." Nobody mentioned that Bobby's son was not allowed to be on camera. The only time I saw an entire team's parents go on the attack was when the coach was out of control. The fans look for a leader and then pack mentality takes over. When the umpire/referee becomes more of interest than the kids, something has been lost and I fault all sides on that. It's a two way street and people are acting like it is open season on officials and one note says it is OK to heckle the kids. Really??? When do we start heckling kids? When they are 10? When the are 12? When they are 15? When they are 18? I don't think it is ever right to heckle kids and if that started, I would defend the kid. I never saw it however. Maybe Carmichael is just too pleasant and well mannered.
If you can't understand that open season on officials mean that fewer people will be officials, you are being deliberately dull. Making the environment bad for everybody discourages quality players and officials from taking part. That should never be a goal whether intended or not.
Edit: as a fan I was not nice although I tried very hard to realize these officials are not pros and should not be held to the standards of professional officials who have enough troubles. (Did you know that the best NBA refs are right just a little over 90% of the time?) I was right on the edge and if the refs were incompetent, I had to bite my lip and didn't succeed all the time. We are dealing with humans who have taken on a thankless job and I hope fans understand that. No one tells the umpire they did a good job when they did a good job except for a few coaches and officials. Fns do not so that. Fans are there to support their kids and enjoy the game and sometimes to be critical of officials and being fair is far down the line of priorities.
My whole goal was to be perfect and make the experience pleasurable for all. I was close on the former although I may have missed a ball or strike call. I never missed a call in the field until I got older and when that happened, I quit for the good of all. BTW, I loved what I did as unnatural as it all seemed to me. I never played any sport at a high level so there was a lot of on the job training. Not every official pops out of the egg fully formed and perfect. I could give a long list of coaches who appreciated what I did.
And, yes, bajaden, my thin skin made me a poor choice as an official. That didn't mean I was a ranting lunatic and didn't mean I was bad. I just swallowed my anxiety and barreled onward. It's about the kids, ya know.
My experience with little league was as a coach. Actually I was just helping the real coach teach the kids how to bat properly. My reward was standing behing home plate catching balls during a batting practice session. One of the kids swung, and hit the ball on the ground and then threw his bat straight back and hit me right between the eyes. Obviously I had forgot to teach them about not throwing the bat. That ended my coaching days. I wasn't a good coach anyway.
