Bjax in the news - for the wrong reason

[Jose]

http://fox40.com/2013/06/12/bobby-jackson-ref-get-into-it-at-granite-bay-game/

Bobby harasses the refs at high schools and AAU games... May have gone a bit too far this time.

 

[annihilator_33]

Reminds me of what happened with Mike Bibby a few months ago.....
http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameo...bibby-kicked-out-of-high-school-game/1910763/

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Sounds like a dozen other parents and Bobby got singled out for being famous. But maybe you had to be there.

 

[Glenn]

Referees and umpires at this level are not very good. Some of them make no money at all for what they do. They do it because they enjoy it. If Bobby and Mike are unhappy with these officials, tell them to put up the money so better officials can be paid. I umpired for 12 years and got paid nothing. The last thing I will tolerate is grief from the fans. Perhaps bobby and Mike would like to donate their extensive expertise and referee games. If they are not willing to be part of the solution, shut up.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Oh.

Well, no kudos to Bobby for that, or anything, but when I read the headline I was prepared for a lot worse.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Glenn - I agree, but from the reports on what Bobby said that is typical of all fans. Maybe I missed something, but he just made a comment from the stands, didn't get in the refs face. I don't think it is Bobby's fault if others felt intimidated by his presence if he can't do what every other parent does.

 

[Glenn]

Glenn - I agree, but from the reports on what Bobby said that is typical of all fans. Maybe I missed something, but he just made a comment from the stands, didn't get in the refs face. I don't think it is Bobby's fault if others felt intimidated by his presence if he can't do what every other parent does.

Yes, it is typical of many fans - not all fans - and that's a partial reason why referees suck. Who wants to do that job for all the grief? I have a thin skin and despite a good reputation, I almost quit several times until I found the magic ability to toss fans out of the game. Bobby should understand that he is not perceived as an average fan and he has a special responsibility to set an example. If not, he can listen to the game on the radio or maybe he can get his cell phone out and have someone give him a play by play as he sits in his car.

My favorite day was when a whole side of fans were on our crew and I told the PA announcer to tell them that if they did not discipline themselves, we would move them to a place where they could not be heard. I was advised to to that by a guy who had much more experience than I so I take no credit for the idea. And, BTW, I was working with a good crew in a tournament.

 

[VF21]

If you've followed all this on Twitter, I think the picture becomes a little clearer. If Bobby wasn't Bobby Jackson, this would truly be much ado about nothing.

 

[IfAt1st]

Unless more comments/evidence surface, this is IMO quite clearly yet another example of local refs authoritarianism gone too far.

A fan, parent, or just spectator (whether it's BJax or not) has the right to ask about bad calls, and ask what he did.
Simply asking a ref "Are you going to keep calling it this way, or let the kids play?" is a valid comment to make during a game.
Many refs make bad calls - it's expected.
What too many refs can't take is anyone questioning their authority, whether it's BJax or any parent.

This ref had NO RIGHT whatsoever to delay the game or to cause a scene from what BJax said.
He was not disrespectful, he did not use any obscenities, and did not cause the game to stop.
The ref CHOSE to stop the game, cause the scene, and force the standoff which resulted in the game improperly being cancelled.

This is ALL on the ref's abuse of authority.
And it's VERY common in Sacramento - I see it all over the valley most of the times I attend any kid's sports event.

And it's not just refs - go ask any person in authority - cops, doctors/nurses, judges, managers, etc.
Abusing a position of authority is this nation's current zeitgeist.

 

[rainmaker]

Just my opinion, but this ref is a pansy.

Exactly how can you become a ref and not expect to be heckled? You're part of the game, out there with the players, and players are always heckled. I have yet to come across a rule anywhere which suggests fans can talk trash to players but not refs. What exactly did this ref expect when he signed up for the job?

I hate refs who think they're bigger than the game or that their personal feelings are more important than the game. If the players can deal with heckling, so can refs. I've never seen a game stopped in America because of fans heckling players, so why would you ever stop a game for a fan heckling a ref? Unless racism is involved of course.

 

[Bricklayer]

Bobby Jackson is clearly a cancer and bad influence on kids. We should trade him immediately.

 

[macadocious]

I didn't know Joey Crawford reffed High School games.

 

[Fear the Putin]

I thought it was a DUI or DV based on the title.

 

[Bricklayer]

I thought it was a DUI or DV based on the title.

I am SO tired of people making excuses for Bobby Jackson. Don't minimize what he did! He disrespected an authority figure in front of children! He used harsh language! Scowls may have been involved!

I find this deeply unsatisfactory on a personal level.

 

[Hoovtrain]

After watching Outside the Lines special on refs in youth sports and the increasingly hostile behavior towards them, often times violent, parents need need to stfu at kids sporting events. It is not about them. And for the record, Bobby J. Is my favorite NBA player of all time.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

LOL BJax got heated. maybe it was the same refs from the NBA Finals?

 

[ESP47]

Bobby Jackson is clearly a cancer and bad influence on kids. We should trade him immediately.

Only if we can get Earl Watson. I hear his defense is good.

 

[NewArena]

Referees and umpires at this level are not very good. Some of them make no money at all for what they do. They do it because they enjoy it. If Bobby and Mike are unhappy with these officials, tell them to put up the money so better officials can be paid. I umpired for 12 years and got paid nothing. The last thing I will tolerate is grief from the fans. Perhaps bobby and Mike would like to donate their extensive expertise and referee games. If they are not willing to be part of the solution, shut up.

you won't "tolerate" grief from fans? That comes with the territory, sir. Volunteer or not.

Not to say fans should go to the extreme or anything.

 

[Fresno King]

Oh God. Such a stupid story. Parents get into it with refs all the time. Fans heckle players and coaches everywhere. If this wasn't Bobby Jackson it wouldn't even be on the news. Did he cuss? No one says he did. Was he disruptive? Perhaps. Did he break anything? Nope. Then, FOX re-hashes the Bibby incident to compare it just because he's also a "former Kings guard." nice way to re-use that file video, eh? Have an "exclusive" with some meat on the bone before patting yourself on the back for 3 minutes of crap.

 

[Rockmeister]

If you've followed all this on Twitter, I think the picture becomes a little clearer. If Bobby wasn't Bobby Jackson, this would truly be much ado about nothing.

Since I don't have a twitter account, is there a way to post the picture?

 

[bajaden]

Yes, it is typical of many fans - not all fans - and that's a partial reason why referees suck. Who wants to do that job for all the grief? I have a thin skin and despite a good reputation, I almost quit several times until I found the magic ability to toss fans out of the game. Bobby should understand that he is not perceived as an average fan and he has a special responsibility to set an example. If not, he can listen to the game on the radio or maybe he can get his cell phone out and have someone give him a play by play as he sits in his car.

My favorite day was when a whole side of fans were on our crew and I told the PA announcer to tell them that if they did not discipline themselves, we would move them to a place where they could not be heard. I was advised to to that by a guy who had much more experience than I so I take no credit for the idea. And, BTW, I was working with a good crew in a tournament.

Sooooo, because Bobby is somewhat famous, he loses his right to free speach? Having been the victim of some bad ref's, please don't get me started. If you can't take the heat, then get the hell out of the kitchen. Ref's have a job to do, and if they can't do it properly, then they're going to be criticized. If you have thin skin, then you probably shouldn't have taken on the job. Just because a individual decides to volunteer for a job for which he doesn't get paid, it doesn't give him a free pass if he does his job poorly. That said, without knowing what was said, and by whom, its hard to come down on either side.

But the idea that the Ref is going to call the entire game, to make his point says more about the ego of the ref than anything. If Bobby Jackson wasn't Bobby Jackson, this wouldn't even be an issue.

 

[AaronPDX]

Reading through/watching this stuff, I'm stunned how out of shape BJax has become. WTH?

 

[Dreadnought]

This just in: Scot Pollard yawned.

Let the chaos ensue.

 

[Glenn]

Sooooo, because Bobby is somewhat famous, he loses his right to free speach? Having been the victim of some bad ref's, please don't get me started. If you can't take the heat, then get the hell out of the kitchen. Ref's have a job to do, and if they can't do it properly, then they're going to be criticized. If you have thin skin, then you probably shouldn't have taken on the job. Just because a individual decides to volunteer for a job for which he doesn't get paid, it doesn't give him a free pass if he does his job poorly. That said, without knowing what was said, and by whom, its hard to come down on either side.

But the idea that the Ref is going to call the entire game, to make his point says more about the ego of the ref than anything. If Bobby Jackson wasn't Bobby Jackson, this wouldn't even be an issue.

I did get the hell out of the kitchen. Then there was one less umpire and as I was good, there was one less good umpire. It becomes a self perpetuating prophecy. As the job becomes less enjoyable, the quality of umpire is lessened. This attitude that it is OK to heckle the kids and heckle the umpires takes the fun out of it. THAT is a reality. Pay me some money and I might be more willing to tolerate it.

If you think I did the job poorly, you are way off. I never had trouble with fans as I could defuse anger. Most of the guys I worked with were very good at it and certainly weren't of the quality that was at the game Jackson attended. I frankly have never heard of a game canceled because of a row between an official and a fan. I am talking about the leagues I umpired in. That's absurd and I have said that before. As people seemingly and perhaps deliberately have an inability to piece together more than one note at a time, I will say it all again. The rules of the organization I umpired specifically called for good behavior by the fans and on a whole, they were great. I don't know when anger and bitching became part of the sport but at the high school level and below I think that that is absurd.

After one game I almost got beaten for the opposing coach's stupidity. It's a long story but it clearly had nothing to do with the quality of the umpires. The coach made a mistake because of his lack of knowledge of the rules and when his team lost, the parents waited after the game in the parking lot to get us. Would it have been OK if I was beaten? Are fans and coaches always right and the officials always wrong? There comes a slippery slope on how much anger is "OK." At the high school level, not much was allowed and the game was not hurt nor do I suspect fans felt cheated because they had to watch the game and not pick on umpires. Think of the level we are talking about. We are assuming Bobby was correct. He may have been but that's a helluva assumption.

No, I didn't tolerate grief but I never kicked anyone out of a game. Between innings I would talk to the person who was over amped and calm him down. It always worked. Other umpires handled the problems differently but the games flowed and the tempers were under control. The demeanor of the official has a lot to do with how the game goes. In the case we are talking about (Bobby), both seemed to be looking for a fight and as I have said over and over, the game shouldn't have been stopped. If I was the chief official of that league, I'd have a serious discussion with the official involved.

I took on the job because of the kids. Novel concept. It never came naturally but I was good.

We all read into the story what we wish. No one has mentioned that not all parents agreed with Bobby. No one has mentioned that Bobby's son called him "intimidating." Nobody mentioned that Bobby's son was not allowed to be on camera. The only time I saw an entire team's parents go on the attack was when the coach was out of control. The fans look for a leader and then pack mentality takes over. When the umpire/referee becomes more of interest than the kids, something has been lost and I fault all sides on that. It's a two way street and people are acting like it is open season on officials and one note says it is OK to heckle the kids. Really??? When do we start heckling kids? When they are 10? When the are 12? When they are 15? When they are 18? I don't think it is ever right to heckle kids and if that started, I would defend the kid. I never saw it however. Maybe Carmichael is just too pleasant and well mannered.

If you can't understand that open season on officials mean that fewer people will be officials, you are being deliberately dull. Making the environment bad for everybody discourages quality players and officials from taking part. That should never be a goal whether intended or not.




Edit: as a fan I was not nice although I tried very hard to realize these officials are not pros and should not be held to the standards of professional officials who have enough troubles. (Did you know that the best NBA refs are right just a little over 90% of the time?) I was right on the edge and if the refs were incompetent, I had to bite my lip and didn't succeed all the time. We are dealing with humans who have taken on a thankless job and I hope fans understand that. No one tells the umpire they did a good job when they did a good job except for a few coaches and officials. Fns do not so that. Fans are there to support their kids and enjoy the game and sometimes to be critical of officials and being fair is far down the line of priorities.

My whole goal was to be perfect and make the experience pleasurable for all. I was close on the former although I may have missed a ball or strike call. I never missed a call in the field until I got older and when that happened, I quit for the good of all. BTW, I loved what I did as unnatural as it all seemed to me. I never played any sport at a high level so there was a lot of on the job training. Not every official pops out of the egg fully formed and perfect. I could give a long list of coaches who appreciated what I did.

And, yes, bajaden, my thin skin made me a poor choice as an official. That didn't mean I was a ranting lunatic and didn't mean I was bad. I just swallowed my anxiety and barreled onward. It's about the kids, ya know.

 

[MizzouKing]

And here I thought I was the only one...

"LIKE."

Look, it isn't okay to act like an a-hole at a children's game, famous or not. Refs will make bad calls and some will be jerks, so you put on your big girl panties and try to resemble someone with coping strategies. Yell out, complain, boo or clap, but know when to reign it in. That's just grownup 101.

I love Bobby for all he has done and continues to do for the Kings organization. Everyone has a bad day, and hopefully he's self-realized enough to recognize it.

MK

I did get the hell out of the kitchen. Then there was one less umpire and as I was good, there was one less good umpire. It becomes a self perpetuating prophecy. As the job becomes less enjoyable, the quality of umpire is lessened. This attitude that it is OK to heckle the kids and heckle the umpires takes the fun out of it. THAT is a reality. Pay me some money and I might be more willing to tolerate it.

If you think I did the job poorly, you are way off. I never had trouble with fans as I could defuse anger. Most of the guys I worked with were very good at it and certainly weren't of the quality that was at the game Jackson attended. I frankly have never heard of a game canceled because of a row between an official and a fan. I am talking about the leagues I umpired in. That's absurd and I have said that before. As people seemingly and perhaps deliberately have an inability to piece together more than one note at a time, I will say it all again. The rules of the organization I umpired specifically called for good behavior by the fans and on a whole, they were great. I don't know when anger and bitching became part of the sport but at the high school level and below I think that that is absurd.

After one game I almost got beaten for the opposing coach's stupidity. It's a long story but it clearly had nothing to do with the quality of the umpires. The coach made a mistake because of his lack of knowledge of the rules and when his team lost, the parents waited after the game in the parking lot to get us. Would it have been OK if I was beaten? Are fans and coaches always right and the officials always wrong? There comes a slippery slope on how much anger is "OK." At the high school level, not much was allowed and the game was not hurt nor do I suspect fans felt cheated because they had to watch the game and not pick on umpires. Think of the level we are talking about. We are assuming Bobby was correct. He may have been but that's a helluva assumption.

No, I didn't tolerate grief but I never kicked anyone out of a game. Between innings I would talk to the person who was over amped and calm him down. It always worked. Other umpires handled the problems differently but the games flowed and the tempers were under control. The demeanor of the official has a lot to do with how the game goes. In the case we are talking about (Bobby), both seemed to be looking for a fight and as I have said over and over, the game shouldn't have been stopped. If I was the chief official of that league, I'd have a serious discussion with the official involved.

I took on the job because of the kids. Novel concept. It never came naturally but I was good.

We all read into the story what we wish. No one has mentioned that not all parents agreed with Bobby. No one has mentioned that Bobby's son called him "intimidating." Nobody mentioned that Bobby's son was not allowed to be on camera. The only time I saw an entire team's parents go on the attack was when the coach was out of control. The fans look for a leader and then pack mentality takes over. When the umpire/referee becomes more of interest than the kids, something has been lost and I fault all sides on that. It's a two way street and people are acting like it is open season on officials and one note says it is OK to heckle the kids. Really??? When do we start heckling kids? When they are 10? When the are 12? When they are 15? When they are 18? I don't think it is ever right to heckle kids and if that started, I would defend the kid. I never saw it however. Maybe Carmichael is just too pleasant and well mannered.

If you can't understand that open season on officials mean that fewer people will be officials, you are being deliberately dull. Making the environment bad for everybody discourages quality players and officials from taking part. That should never be a goal whether intended or not.




Edit: as a fan I was not nice although I tried very hard to realize these officials are not pros and should not be held to the standards of professional officials who have enough troubles. (Did you know that the best NBA refs are right just a little over 90% of the time?) I was right on the edge and if the refs were incompetent, I had to bite my lip and didn't succeed all the time. We are dealing with humans who have taken on a thankless job and I hope fans understand that.

 

[VF21]

Let's review...

The game was between Granite Bay (where Bobby's son attends) and Bella Vista. The story includes a quote from a Granite Bay player and a Bella Vista player's mom.

Bobby said this after the incident: “I don’t know what to tell you, but I’m a dedicated dad. I love my kids, and what happened yesterday … I don`t know why it happened. But I told the ref to make good calls, and he said get out the gym,” Jackson said.

The mom said this after the incident: “It was Bobby over the top. This is a young men`s high school basketball game … We are all adults here. Parents should be mentors to these children. To learn respect, the game … Sportsman-like conduct.”

Read more: http://fox40.com/2013/06/12/bobby-jackson-ref-get-into-it-at-granite-bay-game/#ixzz2WDHmZXPD

The whole incident of Bobby asking the official if he's going to call all the calls and why not just let the kids play took place about three minutes into the game, according to reports. The official, rather than ignoring Jackson, chose to stop play to confront him. After the incident, as Jackson was exiting the gym, the official chose to cancel the game.

It sure doesn't sound like Bobby was doing anything more than any other dad might do ... heck, I MIGHT have done it at one of my daughter's games if the situation had come up. Not exactly profanity or threats or anything...

 

[VF21]

"LIKE."

Look, it isn't okay to act like an a-hole at a children's game, famous or not. Refs will make bad calls and some will be jerks, so you put on your big girl panties and try to resemble someone with coping strategies. Yell out, complain, boo or clap, but know when to reign it in. That's just grownup 101.

I love Bobby for all he has done and continues to do for the Kings organization. Everyone has a bad day, and hopefully he's self-realized enough to recognize it.

MK

Um, that's exactly what Bobby did. And he did it without profanity or anything else. It was the official who elevated the situation, if reports as I just outlined are correct. Sorry, but there's a big difference between some of the narratives being discussed here and what it appears actually happened at Granite Bay High School.

 

[Glenn]

But the idea that the Ref is going to call the entire game, to make his point says more about the ego of the ref than anything. If Bobby Jackson wasn't Bobby Jackson, this wouldn't even be an issue.

This is the assumption. As his son said that Bobby could be pretty intimidating, perhaps he was cut some slack because people know his demeanor. Just the same his son kind of supported the official if you care to look at it from that angle. Of course Bobby can be intimidating and Bobby wouldn't throw me off. I'll bet money I would have handled him without a problem and the game would have went on without a hitch. I'd bet a lot of money on this one.

Yes, the ref had a major problem. I'd like to have been there to see what happened. None of us were there, were we? That latter point may be true but we weren't there to see why he stood out from the rest of the fans.

 

[Glenn]

Um, that's exactly what Bobby did. And he did it without profanity or anything else. It was the official who elevated the situation, if reports as I just outlined are correct. Sorry, but there's a big difference between some of the narratives being discussed here and what it appears actually happened at Granite Bay High School.

None of us has an unbiased TRUTHFUL view of what happened. We all bring our biases to the forum. I think I am clear where I stand and rainmaker and bajaden seem to be on the "anything goes" side of things.

 

[Glenn]

The whole incident of Bobby asking the official if he's going to call all the calls and why not just let the kids play took place about three minutes into the game, according to reports. [/B]The official, rather than ignoring Jackson, chose to stop play to confront him. After the incident, as Jackson was exiting the gym, the official chose to cancel the game.

Three minutes into the game? Does anyone have a problem with the reporting of what happened? Are we really to believe that Bobby had decided 3 minutes into a game that a ref was biased and the ref canceled the game?

I thought that's what I heard and I assumed the reporter was wrong. No parent gets worked up in three minutes. Thanks for confirming what the reporter said. This is part of why I had trouble with the whole story. The reporter sure had trouble with facts. It's a non-story if Bobby hadn't been there. The TV station didn't send the brightest bulb to report on what happened yet we are willing to believe whatever side of the story that suits us.