Big guys

[Glenn]

We seem to be focusing on guards. Can we discuss players who can clog the paint?


Are there any defensive 7 footers available to us? I have scratched Len from my list as a little research showed that the need for surgery is rare for a stress fracture and Len needed surgery. He might be another Oden although I realize different parts of the body are involved. So far mock drafts seem to ignore Len's injury and more exactly, the TYPE of injury. That's a big mistake but I think Len will drop as we near the draft.

No one will be perfect, obviously. In this year #7 is not going to get us a spectacular player but I think we learned with Aldrich that even a mediocre 7 footer with a desire to clog the paint can be very valuable to the Kings. Gobert needs serious work in the weight room but as one coach said, "you can't teach height." It depends on what you expect from Gobert. He can't give much offense at all but I would let Cuz have that job. With his wing span and height, he can play defense by just standing near the paint. I haven't seen much of him except for video clips of him dunking and blocking shots. I don't know the level of his competition and I suspect it was not good but you can't help but be intrigued by a guy who is 7'2" with a 7"9" wing span. When's the last time there was a guy with a wing span like this?


I am not hot on Zeller as he seems to have no specific skill of use to us. Bennett probably won't be available but as a SF, he might be interesting. If 6'9" was considered short for a PF last year, 6'7" is short this year. I would scratch him from the list of PF/centers. I've never seen him play except in video clips where he looked like a monster. I also understand he has a decent three point shot. The addition of Bennett to Cuz and Tyreke would leave us with a pretty strong team without losing much athleticism.


Who else? I would like to see this thread devoted to some players other than guards.

 

[ParniValjak]

I have said this a number of times before but we are limited in term of type of player that will anchor our defence. For example, as good as Marc Gasol is at clogging the lane and blocking shots, he would be a terrible fit next to Cousins because neither of the guys can guard the quicker PFs. If we are going for a big body to clog the lane, they are unlikely to be playing much because Cousins will get majority of the time at C position.

Gobert is an interesting one. He needs to put on weight but he seems to be quick enough and long enough to be able to guard both PF and C and he could be the type of guy that would be a great fit next to Cousins in a couple of years time. He will need to develop a mid range jumper so that he is not a complete liability at the offensive end. From current players, someone like Ibaka would be a perfect front court partner for big Cuz. Noah would fit well as well so would Chandler. Those are the types that we need to find but its pretty obvious they are not easy to find.

 

[rhythmless]

We seem to be focusing on guards. Can we discuss players who can clog the paint?

A paint clogger is probably the worst big to put next to DMC. DMC is the paint clogger, he's just ground bound and doesn't block shots. Your ideal big that can play starter minutes would be a weakside shotblocker that can hit the 20 footer but never needs the ball. Think Ibaka, Sanders, Anthony Davis, and this year, Noel. After him, the bigs are mostly skill and offensive bigs, not above the rim enforcers.

If you're looking for a paint clogger that can take up space, spell DMC, and use 6 fouls, Aldrich did an alright job of that last year. But we shouldn't be using a lotto pick to fill holes on the bench when we have so many issues with our starters.

 

[Gary]

If we are looking for one in the draft it's probably Noel, but we wont be able to get him unless we trade up.

If we are looking at a trade then the guy I would probably look at is a player like Josh Smith or Favors? I remember when Favors was in college he would get a lot of those late blocks where the opposing player thinks he has a clear path because of beating his man. There really aren't any others that we could possibly trade for. Personally I don't even think Smith and Favors would be available. Jazz would probably move Jefferson or Milsap before Favors. Jefferson is a Cousins clone (for the sake of argument), and Milsap isn't really the player I want at PF.

 

[Fear the Putin]

Robin Lopez...though he has a team option for the next two years. Good defender and can block shots, but also hold his own defensively.

 

[Gary]

Robin Lopez...though he has a team option for the next two years. Good defender and can block shots, but also hold his own defensively.

Forgot about Lopez. Think NO is going to blow it up? Think Lopez would be a starter on this team over JT?

 

[rhythmless]

Forgot about Lopez. Think NO is going to blow it up? Think Lopez would be a starter on this team over JT?

Lopez is mobile for a center, but if we're asking him to guard PFs, he's not that great if he gets taken near the perimeter. I think JT possesses better lateral footspeed, although Lopez is without question a better shot blocker.

I doubt NO would let him go. He's on an extremely reasonable salary as a starting big man and allows Davis to play PF. Until Davis can get some girth, he won't really be able to hold down the C spot full time. When Anderson comes in Davis moves to C in spot minutes, and Jason Smith is a great banger role player. Lopez fits his role, isn't asked to do much, is cheap, and will allow Davis to come along.

 

[Gilles]

Relative success that the team had late in Boogie's rookie season was in part triggered by Dalembert in starting lineup. Dalembert is a C but pretty specific one - he had mobility to stay with PFs, put resistance against centers and protect the rim. He wasn't perfect in all three areas, but overall it was a great fit. Drummond was such a player in last year's draft, as for this year you have Adams and maybe Gobert (will need to seriously bulk up to guard Cs that might affect his not ideal mobility and make him a liability against PFs). Kings can go with "mobility to stay with PFs and protect the rim" from Cousins' front court partner and Noel certainly fits to that profile or Ibaka, Favors(he might be ok at center too) or Smith among players currently in the NBA. As you can see we are talking about high-end players, who are probably not available, so drafting one of their one might be the only way for Kings.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Big guys i would like to see traded for are:
Ed Davis: doesnt see enough minutes in Memphis, cause Hollins prefers Arthur to get a little bit of floor spacing and mid range game. Very mobile, long, good shotblocker and capable rebounder.
Anthony Randolph: is stuck behind McGee and Chandler, very raw but fits the needs we got in Sac
Tyler Hansbrough: not a shotblocker, but brings the exact level of energy and fighting spirit the Kings need, very good post-defender and rebounder, who can score from mid range and finish at the rim.

I would prefer Hansbrough and keep Aldrich in case we need a shotblocking presence to stop penetration. We need an established big-man right now, to show Evans and Cousins the franchise is on the right track. So i would prefer trading for one of those guys and draft a SF or PG.

 

[Gilles]

Kings have Cousins, JT, Patterson and Hayes under contract, so Hansbrough has no place on this team. Ed Davis would be nice as he brings better defensive rebounding and rim protection than the group Kings currently have, but he will cost in assets.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Unlike Patterson, Jt and Hayes, Hansbrough is a walking double-double given the minutes and plays with high energy on defense and offense, that none of the Kings PF can provide right now and that we need, cause we have a low-energy Cousins at the C-Position. Hansbrough would be inspiring for the whole Squad just due to his working ethic and passion.
Nonetheless i would clearly support a Davis-Trade too.

 

[The_Jamal]

This is the real issue of Cousins being a terrible defender. There simply are not many PF anchors and even the ones who are (or can play the position) play a lot of C as well.

 

[beb0p]

I'd like to know who here had actually seen Gobert more than a few times and I'm not talking about highlight videos. I've seen him played about three times in game settings; he seems to be very raw, slow laterally, skinny, get bullied, bad shooting touch, but very long and an awesome shot blocker. He fouls a lot, but he's active. From the limited games that I've seen, he's a true long term project - think at least 3 yrs before he's ready to be in the rotation. He reminds me a tiny bit of Thabeet - both raw, big, filled with potential but has a lot to learn. That's not a knock, Thabeet was drafted too high, if he was picked in the lower first round with the understanding that he'd need 3-5 yrs to develop then he'd have been seen as right on schedule. I think Gobert needs a similar amount of time to build up his game and body. So the question is: are you ready to wait 3-5 years for him? Again, I've only seen him three times. Take it for what it's worth.

I think that if you're thinking of a Gobert type of player, you're better off with Jeff Whitey. They have similar strength and flaws, except Whitey is NBA ready and you know what you're getting; Gobert is not ready and he could be a complete bust. For the record, I'm really high on Whitey. He's not a star but he'll be a nice Pryzbilla type role player in the league.

 

[KingsFanGER]

This is the real issue of Cousins being a terrible defender. There simply are not many PF anchors and even the ones who are (or can play the position) play a lot of C as well.

I dont think he is terrible. He lacks effort and picks up stupid fouls. Paired with an established defensive big and with a new head-coach he might learn how to defend properly. He is very quick on his feet, is wide and strong. He may not be a super potent shotblocker, cause he lacks the vertical, but if he improves his timing, he could be average at least.
Watching the playoffs two bigs come to mind, that could be paired with Cousins too. Thiago Splitter is a viable part of the defense that annihilated the leagues most feared front-court-duo. Therefore he might be an addition to think about too, even if he is a step slower then some PF, so that we need a very good perimeter defense to not get hit by penetration.
If the Rockets can aquire Howard, Asik might be avaiable too, but this requires to move Cousins to the PF and i doubt that he is quick enough to handle some of the matchups on this position.
After all there are some really good big-man, that might be avaiable for the Kings outside the Draft. So i would focus on SF or PG to fill the gaps in the Kings roster.
The one i would not pick up is Dalembert. He clearly has added some weight, since he was a King and is more then a step slower nowadays. He is not a good fit.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I'd like to know who here had actually seen Gobert more than a few times and I'm not talking about highlight videos. I've seen him played about three times in game settings; he seems to be very raw, slow laterally, skinny, get bullied, bad shooting touch, but very long and an awesome shot blocker. He fouls a lot, but he's active. From the limited games that I've seen, he's a true long term project - think at least 3 yrs before he's ready to be in the rotation. He reminds me a tiny bit of Thabeet - both raw, big, filled with potential but has a lot to learn. That's not a knock, Thabeet was drafted too high, if he was picked in the lower first round with the understanding that he'd need 3-5 yrs to develop then he'd have been seen as right on schedule. I think Gobert needs a similar amount of time to build up his game and body. So the question is: are you ready to wait 3-5 years for him? Again, I've only seen him three times. Take it for what it's worth.

I think that if you're thinking of a Gobert type of player, you're better off with Jeff Whitey. They have similar strength and flaws, except Whitey is NBA ready and you know what you're getting; Gobert is not ready and he could be a complete bust. For the record, I'm really high on Whitey. He's not a star but he'll be a nice Pryzbilla type role player in the league.

The Kings have no time to waste. Cousins is the cornerstone of the franchise and this guy plays to win. He wont settle for a few more years in SAC, if we miss the playoffs time and time again. Same could be the problem with Evans.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

drummond

 

[ParniValjak]

drummond

12 months too late

 

[Vlade4GM]

Noel is going 1 or 2, and he's not worth trading up for, so he's obviously out of the picture. Len probably isn't a good option because of the ankle. Dieng, Withey, and Adams are the defensive C's, but Dieng/Withey are mid to late firsts, while Adams may be ideal at some point but you have to wait a bit for him. I have zero interest in Zeller and Oleynik.

Gobert is the wild card, but I'm starting to lean away from him because of his high center of gravity. A 9'7 standing reach with his mobility and finishing ability is impressive though. Ultimately, I don't think he's the right pick for us.

 

[funkykingston]

We seem to be focusing on guards. Can we discuss players who can clog the paint?


Are there any defensive 7 footers available to us? I have scratched Len from my list as a little research showed that the need for surgery is rare for a stress fracture and Len needed surgery. He might be another Oden although I realize different parts of the body are involved. So far mock drafts seem to ignore Len's injury and more exactly, the TYPE of injury. That's a big mistake but I think Len will drop as we near the draft.

No one will be perfect, obviously. In this year #7 is not going to get us a spectacular player but I think we learned with Aldrich that even a mediocre 7 footer with a desire to clog the paint can be very valuable to the Kings. Gobert needs serious work in the weight room but as one coach said, "you can't teach height." It depends on what you expect from Gobert. He can't give much offense at all but I would let Cuz have that job. With his wing span and height, he can play defense by just standing near the paint. I haven't seen much of him except for video clips of him dunking and blocking shots. I don't know the level of his competition and I suspect it was not good but you can't help but be intrigued by a guy who is 7'2" with a 7"9" wing span. When's the last time there was a guy with a wing span like this?


I am not hot on Zeller as he seems to have no specific skill of use to us. Bennett probably won't be available but as a SF, he might be interesting. If 6'9" was considered short for a PF last year, 6'7" is short this year. I would scratch him from the list of PF/centers. I've never seen him play except in video clips where he looked like a monster. I also understand he has a decent three point shot. The addition of Bennett to Cuz and Tyreke would leave us with a pretty strong team without losing much athleticism.


Who else? I would like to see this thread devoted to some players other than guards.

I think in time Len will be a good pro and his ankle injury doesn't concern me. That said, I think he's a terrible fit with Cousins. He's not a natural shotblocker and while he has some mobility for his size, pairing him with DMC would make for a somewhat lumbering frontcourt on defense. He's also a relatively poor rebounder. Most importantly, he's a down the road prospect as I don't see him as being able to contribute a lot right away.

I don't know anything about Gobert other than measurements and highlight clips. He seems mechanical and very raw to me. From what little I've seen Hasheem Thabeet looked much more NBA ready than he does.

Bennett can't play SF. He lacks the shot, the quickness and the skillset. He's a scoring/rebounding PF who has boom or bust written all over him and I'm leaning strongly towards bust. Fortunately for the Kings I think (1) he's likely to be gone by #7 and (2) he is a poor fit next to Cuz because I wouldn't want to gamble on him. He's Elton Brand like in terms of his measurables in that he's undersized by height but compensates with a long wingspan.

Zeller will be a solid rotation player for somebody, but he's too finesse and offensive minded for me. He could play well off DeMarcus on that side of the ball, but would be a liability on the other end.

I watched two Pitt games this weekend to focus on Steven Adams and he has some real potential but he might be the big man that has the furthest to go to be a contributor of any of the bigs in this draft. So raw, with poor footwork, tons of bad habits and showing little feel for the game. He'd be a great pick for a contending team with veteran who could tutor him and let him develop slowly. That's NOT the Kings.

Jeff Withey is the type of guy that will have a long, solid and unremarkable NBA career. We can call Cole Aldrich mediocre (and he is) but bear in mind that two years ago he was a lottery pick big man in a much stronger draft. Withey is taller but Aldrich has a longer wingspand/standing reach and more bulk to him. Both guys are limited minute big men who won't dazzle but also won't hurt you when they are in there. Aldrich is more of a poor man's Pryzbilla while Withey reminds me a of a poor man's Chris Mihm. If that sounds like faint praise, it's because it is. Still, they are the type of blue collar fourth big that good teams like to have.

I can't think of a good comparison for Mason Plumlee. I could reach back to Michael "the Animal" Smith, but Plumlee is more athletic and not as rugged. He's a pretty good athlete, but not elite and he's not a banger but not necessarily a finesse player either. Basically a more talented version of his brother (not saying much) who has been riding the bench for the Pacers all season. I think he can contribute as an energy/hustle/rebounding guy off the bench and maybe more. Also not an ideal fit next to Cousins.

I have no interest in Olynyk. Essentially Spencer Hawes without the passing and even less defensive potential.

Gorgui Dieng is a guy I really like. Ready to contribute and the closest thing to Samuel Dalembert I see in this draft. He and Cousins would struggle against athletic PFs (a job for Patterson or even Outlaw) but would make a solid rebounding duo, and Dieng is a nice defensive anchor. I think he can have a similar impact as Festus Ezeli did for the Warriors last year. He doesn't have Ezeli's bulk or ability to defend in the post, but he has a better feel for the game, more mobility and surprisingly good passing instincts.

Tony Mitchell is a somewhat undersized, athletic PF. I see him as a less talented Tyrus Thomas/Stromile Swift type.

In my mind, outside of Noel (who I have longterm injury concerns about due to his frame and style of play - see how often he ended up on the ground in games) there's no sure fire bigs that would be great additions to the Kings. I definitely like Dieng, Gobert is a giant mystery (pun intended) and Len could be a nice talent if not a good fit, but otherwise I think you're looking at possible bench contributors. If that's the case I'd rather just re-sign Aldrich and upgrade other spots via the draft.

 

[Gary]

What about trying to get a guy like Fab Melo? Think he's too big to play PF? He blocked 14 shots in an NBADL game. He's incredibly raw though, and I am not sure Boston would get rid of him.

 

[funkykingston]

What about trying to get a guy like Fab Melo? Think he's too big to play PF? He blocked 14 shots in an NBADL game. He's incredibly raw though, and I am not sure Boston would get rid of him.

Yeah, I think Fab Melo is a backup center, plain and simple. I like him though. But for reference, Cole Aldrich regularly blocked 7 or 8 shots in the NBADL while averaging nearly a double double. (10 & 8.5) I think both guys would play a similar role on the Kings as the fourth big who can rebound and challege shots. I'd rather have Melo but Aldrich should be much easier to retain than Melo would be to trade for.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

12 months too late

yeah.. we whiffed on the past 2 drafts.

 

[bajaden]

I'd like to know who here had actually seen Gobert more than a few times and I'm not talking about highlight videos. I've seen him played about three times in game settings; he seems to be very raw, slow laterally, skinny, get bullied, bad shooting touch, but very long and an awesome shot blocker. He fouls a lot, but he's active. From the limited games that I've seen, he's a true long term project - think at least 3 yrs before he's ready to be in the rotation. He reminds me a tiny bit of Thabeet - both raw, big, filled with potential but has a lot to learn. That's not a knock, Thabeet was drafted too high, if he was picked in the lower first round with the understanding that he'd need 3-5 yrs to develop then he'd have been seen as right on schedule. I think Gobert needs a similar amount of time to build up his game and body. So the question is: are you ready to wait 3-5 years for him? Again, I've only seen him three times. Take it for what it's worth.

I think that if you're thinking of a Gobert type of player, you're better off with Jeff Whitey. They have similar strength and flaws, except Whitey is NBA ready and you know what you're getting; Gobert is not ready and he could be a complete bust. For the record, I'm really high on Whitey. He's not a star but he'll be a nice Pryzbilla type role player in the league.

I agree with you. I like Jeff Withey a lot, and if all your looking for is someone to put next to Cousins for defensive purposes, who won't get in the way on offense, then someone like Withey is perfect. He's a better athlete than advertized, he can score a little, and is a decent to good rebounder. I also like Gorgui Dieng from Louisville. He's another player that will play defense, and get out of the way on offense. He sets good screens and he rebounds. He's not a good a shotblocker as Withey, but he's probably a better man defender in the post. If you want to take a gamble for the future, I'd bet on Steven Adams over Gobert. Adams has an NBA body, he's a legit 7 footer with a big wingspan, a very good athlete, but raw in many areas. He came to the game late so he's playing catchup. But his potential is very high.

 

[bajaden]

I watched two Pitt games this weekend to focus on Steven Adams and he has some real potential but he might be the big man that has the furthest to go to be a contributor of any of the bigs in this draft. So raw, with poor footwork, tons of bad habits and showing little feel for the game. He'd be a great pick for a contending team with veteran who could tutor him and let him develop slowly. That's NOT the Kings.

Were the games you watched from the beginning of the season, or the end of the season? I ask because there was dramatic improvement in Adams as the year went on. Ironic that you said he has no feel for the game, because his head coach said that one of his redeeming traits is that he has a good feel for the game, and thus his improvement. Considering that sometimes in New Zealand the only competition he could find on the court was his sister, its no shock that he's behind the curve.

Personally, I have no problem with the Kings taking a flyer on a potentially good player in the future, as long as they make some other moves through freeagency or trades. I've never looked at the draft as a quick fix device. It can be, if you get lucky and get the first pick in the draft and Lebron is sitting there. But I mostly look at it as a building block tool where you keep adding pieces, that in most cases, especially in todays NBA, need developement. Of course I realize that others see it in a different light.

 

[bajaden]

Yeah, I think Fab Melo is a backup center, plain and simple. I like him though. But for reference, Cole Aldrich regularly blocked 7 or 8 shots in the NBADL while averaging nearly a double double. (10 & 8.5) I think both guys would play a similar role on the Kings as the fourth big who can rebound and challege shots. I'd rather have Melo but Aldrich should be much easier to retain than Melo would be to trade for.

I'm not a big fan of Melo's. I didn't like him in college and unless he suddenly upped his BBIQ, I still don't like him. I'd take Aldrich over him 10 times out of 10. He has better BBIQ and basicly knows how to play the game. Melo played in a zone defense at Syracuse, and all his flaws were hidden to a large degree. Very typical of Syracuse players! Not true of Aldrich or true of Withey, where both had to play a lot of man to man.

I'm not saying he can't improve, but I'd have to see some evidence of that.

 

[Darth Divac]

Here's a few cheap shotblocking bigs:

Tiago Splitter, C/PF, San Antonio- This guy is a fantastic defender, supported by every stat or metric you can find. Played a good bit of PF next to Tim Duncan. Should be one of our top FA targets.

Amir Johnson, PF, Toronto- Another fantastic value guy who'll lock down the paint. Not a free agent though, and unless the Raps decide not to amnesty Bargs, they're likely to keep him.

Jason Maxiell, PF, Detroit- Will likely be moved will Detroit intending to start Drummond (Grrr Trob) and Monroe together.

Bismack Biyombo, PF/C, Charlotte- Forced to play center for the Bobcats, he'll do much better as a PF. Offensively challenged, but he's a terrific defender and rebounder.

Ed Davis, PF, Memphis- He has a nice post game to go with that shotblocking and length. Grizz are all set in the frontcourt, so he may be moved.

Elton Brand, PF/C, Dallas- Highly expierienced vet who coud come as low as the veteran minimum. Would be an immeadiate locker room prescence and leader, as well as being one of the better shotblockers of the last decade.

Ekepe Udoh, PF, Milwaukee- Not my first choice, as he makes Bismack Biyombo look like Kobe Bryant on offense. Still, blocks 1.2 shots per game in just 17 minutes.

Robin Lopez, C/PF, New Orleans- I have this hunch that NOLA may draft Alex Len, making Lopez expendable. Cheap contract and mobile enough to play PF.

Hasheem Thabeet, C, OKC- Again, not my first choice, but just because he's a bust doesn't mean he's not athletic and a damn good shotblocker. Quick enough to guard PFs, tall, Gobert-esque wingspan and all the potential in the world. He does foul way more than he should, but that can be coached away.

 

[cuad]

Gorgui Dieng.

 

[Gilles]

Splitter won't be cheap that's for sure. He's not fantastic in anything but is good across the board, including the defense after taking a few years of lessons from The Master.
Amir Johnson, Jason Maxiell? Please, they would enter bigman rotation as #4 at best.
Biyombo is improving and might become good at some not so far moment, but why would Charlotte move him?
Ed Davis is still cheap and acts as insurance for Memphis. He might become available next off-season, but then it would mean he costs a lot.
Brand? A year or two away from retirement. Just not worth it.
Ekpe Udoh. He's actually the guy most resembling Dieng, except Dieng is slightly better.
Robin Lopez. He's young, serviceable and nothing special. Might as well retain Aldrich. Saw some OKC fans claiming maybe he comes back for vet min, because apparently he liked it in Oklahoma. Then I'd rather pick Aldrich for $1.5-2 million.
Hasheem Thabeet, the PF. Yeah, right. I mean, no way!

 

[Gilles]

Noguiera is 215, Adams is 255 - that's a chasm between them.

 

[Telemachus]

While I wouldn't list him as a big man, I wonder what many here would think about trying to sign Brandon Rush? He was set to start at SF for GS this season before getting injured. He is a career 41% 3pt shooter (44% overall) and about average across the board everywhere else. He is only 27 yrs old. I know he has a player option for this year, but wouldn't be surprised if he didn't take it knowing that he would be on the bench again.