Ben Mclemore
- Thread starter Larry89
- Start date
Shooting is about putting the ball in the hoop, I not being facetious, I don't care if his stroke is a clone of Ray Allen's honestly, and I don't really get excited by dunks, this is the NBA.
anyway I'm not bagging on the guy I'm just not a believer yet, and I'm not really a believer in this unbelievable defense everyone keeps talking about.
as I said, waiting and hoping just like everyone else.
anyway I'm not bagging on the guy I'm just not a believer yet, and I'm not really a believer in this unbelievable defense everyone keeps talking about.
as I said, waiting and hoping just like everyone else.
The ability to do that has a negligible impact at this level. An open court dunk is still worth as many points as an Andre Miller layup. It's his handle, his reading of the game, ability to create for himself, footwork, use of screens, etc which will ultimately decide his pecking order in this league.
I've never compared him to Doug Christie that I can remember.
I think we're caught in this "Ben can't" narrative. Even when there is no evidence to support it. It's almost as if people are angry at Ben for not being a superstar from his first moment on the court. I suspect this will be the running theme for Ben. So be it.
I was simply pointing out that he hasn't had time and opportunity to prove or dissprove what he will be.
I think we're caught in this "Ben can't" narrative. Even when there is no evidence to support it. It's almost as if people are angry at Ben for not being a superstar from his first moment on the court. I suspect this will be the running theme for Ben. So be it.
I was simply pointing out that he hasn't had time and opportunity to prove or dissprove what he will be.
No you can't. But its also not especially relevant given his game. Its better to be able to jump than not, but especially when you are not a ballhandler and aren't going to be finishing through traffic much its more style points than anything else. In that play above if he was just going up for a layup, that's the same points. Far more valuable athletic traits are strength and lateral quickness which actually have application to perimeter defense. Having hops might actually be more useful for big guys finishing around the rim and getting up to block shots.
Perhaps the light has gone on upstairs for Ben. I've said that when he stops thinking, and just starts reacting, his shot will start dropping. Look, if he can score efficiently and play good defense, and stay away from the things he isn't good at, he'll be just fine. I don't know that he's arrived yet or not, but I like what I've seen in the last few games. Consistency, consistency, and consistency is what we need, not only from him, but from everyone in the rotation. If Ben continues to play like this, his value increases, both as a player for us, or as a trade chip in a future deal.
Well, there is no number 24 on this years roster. I don't have last years roster readily available at the moment. All I have is my team by team breakdown of the best players (in my opinion) on each team along with their numbers, height, weight etc. Since he's not on my list, I have to assume that he's a player that I decided wasn't worth my attention.. For instance, these are the players that I have listed on Kansas for this season.
Cliff Alexander: # 2, 6'8", 240 Lbs, PF
Wayne Selden: # 1, 6'5", 230 Lbs, SG
Kelly Oubre: # 12, 6'7", 200 Lbs, SF (Wiggins replacement. Wiggins was # 22)
Perry Ellis: # 34, 6'8", 225 Lbs, PF
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk: # 10, 6'8", 195 Lbs, SF
I have a couple of others listed, but their chances of making it in the NBA are slim. Anyway, I'll see if I can find last seasons roster and find out who # 24 is.
Cliff Alexander: # 2, 6'8", 240 Lbs, PF
Wayne Selden: # 1, 6'5", 230 Lbs, SG
Kelly Oubre: # 12, 6'7", 200 Lbs, SF (Wiggins replacement. Wiggins was # 22)
Perry Ellis: # 34, 6'8", 225 Lbs, PF
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk: # 10, 6'8", 195 Lbs, SF
I have a couple of others listed, but their chances of making it in the NBA are slim. Anyway, I'll see if I can find last seasons roster and find out who # 24 is.
No, you're twisting my argument. I didn't say athleticism means nothing, but at the NBA level we have countless great athletes. What sets them apart are fundamentals, skillsets developed over years, reading of the game, etc. Our very own DWill is a prime example. The guys who have the athleticism and the fundamentals/skills/IQ are the ones who really excel. But you don't get by on athleticism alone at this level.
The difference between Kobe and Vince Carter/TMac was not athleticism, it was everything else. And for all the athletic 2's in the league, some of the greatest wing lockdown defenders recently at that position had a fraction of that athleticism, guys like Bowen or Sefalosha or Tony Allen, who's success largely comes from the mental side of the game.
Ben isn't any more athletic than he was last year. His improvement of late is mostly between the ears, a combination of more confidence and a better reading of the game and it's continued improvement in those areas as well as his handle which will define his success going forward.
The difference between Kobe and Vince Carter/TMac was not athleticism, it was everything else. And for all the athletic 2's in the league, some of the greatest wing lockdown defenders recently at that position had a fraction of that athleticism, guys like Bowen or Sefalosha or Tony Allen, who's success largely comes from the mental side of the game.
Ben isn't any more athletic than he was last year. His improvement of late is mostly between the ears, a combination of more confidence and a better reading of the game and it's continued improvement in those areas as well as his handle which will define his success going forward.
Guys! Why are you combing through current Kansas players, when Ben is in his second NBA year, and Nik is here too. That's Travis Releford. Always took best opponent's swingman on D, because Ben had no idea, how to defend guards in college, until late in the season.
Ben can move around and explosively jump, which means he can create separation and theoretically be unguardable, see that unreal move in the 4th vs OKC. Now whether he can polish his skills enough for this to be a dependable move is anybody's guess, given that even with his work ethic the amount of work to be done appear to be massive, but it's there. And no, this is not a skill, but what athleticism can allow. Skills are yet to come.
Ben can move around and explosively jump, which means he can create separation and theoretically be unguardable, see that unreal move in the 4th vs OKC. Now whether he can polish his skills enough for this to be a dependable move is anybody's guess, given that even with his work ethic the amount of work to be done appear to be massive, but it's there. And no, this is not a skill, but what athleticism can allow. Skills are yet to come.
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I think we agree for the most part. I just haven't seen any reason why Ben is not capable of learning and increasing his skills. I think the skills are there. He just needs to feel confident in using them so he can gain that experience. He didn't just learn a step back jumper or fade away in the last couple of games. He wasn't confident enough to use them. I think there is more there that will come out as he becomes more comfortable.
I agree 100%. This is one of my favorite subjects, and for every great athlete that turned out to be a great player, I could probably name you two great athletes that didn't. As you said, athleticism is a plus when added to skills, or vice versa. The point I would make is, that if I have to choose between a great athlete, with a poor skill level, and a average athlete with a high skill level, I'll take the average athlete every time. I might get burned once in a while, but on average, I'll come out a winner.
What separates the Kobe's, Carters, and Lebrons etc. is desire and heart. That's always the X factor. Very hard to measure, and hard to predict if its there, or whether its just hiding. Then there's touch, or feel if you will. Shooting a basketball, technique aside, is all about feel. When you think about it, it's amazing. In a split second, a players brain has to measure the distance from the basket, and then apply just the right amount of energy and spin on the ball to be successful. Logic tells you that everyone isn't going to blessed with the same ability to do that. That's why everyone isn't a good shooter, and some will never be. Practice and determination aside, why are some players better ball handlers than others. Well, hand/eye coordination isn't equally distributed either. Since I think I'm off the original subject, I better shut up.
What separates the Kobe's, Carters, and Lebrons etc. is desire and heart. That's always the X factor. Very hard to measure, and hard to predict if its there, or whether its just hiding. Then there's touch, or feel if you will. Shooting a basketball, technique aside, is all about feel. When you think about it, it's amazing. In a split second, a players brain has to measure the distance from the basket, and then apply just the right amount of energy and spin on the ball to be successful. Logic tells you that everyone isn't going to blessed with the same ability to do that. That's why everyone isn't a good shooter, and some will never be. Practice and determination aside, why are some players better ball handlers than others. Well, hand/eye coordination isn't equally distributed either. Since I think I'm off the original subject, I better shut up.
