Bee Courtside Notes: Arena operating costs hammer Pacers

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#1
Arena operating costs hammer Pacers

Indiana Pacers co-owner Herb Simon says he doesn't want to see the city without his franchise. His wishes and the bottom line appear to be at odds.

Among the issues for the struggling frnachise is its operation of Conseco Fieldhouse. The building where the team plays its home games belongs to the Indianapolis Capital Improvement Board, and the Pacers have been paying its $15 million operating costs. Pat Early, the board's vice president, said the Pacers have made it clear they no longer can pay that amount, in part because they could lose $30 million this season.

Early said the Pacers haven't threatened to leave, but the team would be forced to make some "very difficult decisions" if it remains saddled with the costs.

Simon said he doesn't want to move the team, though he acknowledges the mounting financial losses.

"We can handle the team," he said. "It's the operation of the facility that's causing us the problem."

The Pacers have lost money nine of the past 10 years, were last in the NBA in attendance last season and are only slightly better this season.

Early said his board can't pick up the operating costs, and he's unsure who would.

"Maybe the cost of keeping an NBA franchise in Indianapolis is more than the people of the city are willing to incur," he said.

NOTE: I cannot give a link as I couldn't find it on the Bee website. I copied it from my edition of today's Bee, March 13, 2009, page C4.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#2
I posted this just to show the Kings aren't the only franchise having financial problems. This sure looks like some kind of veiled threat to try and force the ICIB to renegotiate their contract with the Pacers.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#3
Nothing veiled there -- just no way they can support that kind of loss every year. And the improvement board guy doesn't get that there is no negotiation there -- they can either pick up the $15mil operating tab themselves (brutal in this economy) and keep the Pacers. Or they can have the Pacers leave, and then be stuck paying the $15mil operating expenses anyway. Sounds like the town built one of the nicest facilities around to comepete with the big cities, but had no way to pay for it without an NBA sugar daddy.
 

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#4
Arena operating costs hammer Pacers

Indiana Pacers co-owner Herb Simon says he doesn't want to see the city without his franchise. His wishes and the bottom line appear to be at odds.

Among the issues for the struggling frnachise is its operation of Conseco Fieldhouse. The building where the team plays its home games belongs to the Indianapolis Capital Improvement Board, and the Pacers have been paying its $15 million operating costs. Pat Early, the board's vice president, said the Pacers have made it clear they no longer can pay that amount, in part because they could lose $30 million this season.

Early said the Pacers haven't threatened to leave, but the team would be forced to make some "very difficult decisions" if it remains saddled with the costs.

Simon said he doesn't want to move the team, though he acknowledges the mounting financial losses.

"We can handle the team," he said. "It's the operation of the facility that's causing us the problem."

The Pacers have lost money nine of the past 10 years, were last in the NBA in attendance last season and are only slightly better this season.

Early said his board can't pick up the operating costs, and he's unsure who would.

"Maybe the cost of keeping an NBA franchise in Indianapolis is more than the people of the city are willing to incur," he said.

NOTE: I cannot give a link as I couldn't find it on the Bee website. I copied it from my edition of today's Bee, March 13, 2009, page C4.

I think this was also on ESPN.com and other sites. I was going to post it as well.

Ah, yep. Here you go....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3975398
 
#5
Wow, I was rather surprised to come here and see our problems grace your board. I'm a moderator from Pacers Digest and was curious on Sacramento's arena quandary.

To make a long story short. When Pacers Sports and Entertainment (PS&E) and the Capital Improvement Board (CIB) settled on a lease back in '99, there was a provision to open the lease and renegotiate the terms after 10 years. Well, this is the 10 year anniversary of the lease and it just coincides with the opening of the new Lucas Oil Stadium here in Indy. Jim Irsay and the Colts got some very favorable concessions in their lease and the Pacers feel that they shouldn't be hung out to dry.

The Problem for the Simons (PS&E owner) is the fact that the city covers the operation of Lucas Oil while they have to cover the cost of the Fieldhouse. The problem for the city is.... The CIB is running at a large deficit because the operating cost of Lucas Oil was more then was planned for. The CIB is hoping that once the other half of the Convention Center Project is finished, there will be enough revenue to cover the operation cost of both Lucas Oil and Conseco.

Personally, I don't feel this would be much of an issue if it were not for the timing. Central Indiana is being hit rather hard by the whole economy situation. Locally, the situation is being played up as the Average Joe is losing their homes and jobs but the Pacers Brass want $15M a year. In the end, the CIB will basically find a way to float this because they are aware that at the end of the day.... They can pay to operate a building with a tenant, or can pay to operate a building without a tenant. The CIB V.P. has said as much and are on the side of redoing the lease. The large issue is, where are they going to find the money?

I'll be shocked if this gets any uglier then what is in the air publically right now.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
Thanks for stopping by, Gnome. And thanks for filling us in on the situation. I certainly hope your last sentence proves to be totally correct.

I posted the story in part because I have a warm spot in my heart - as you know - for the Pacers. And I wanted to show that it's not just the Kings facing stuff like this...
 
#8
Well, the latest is being described as a "shared Pain"...

Indystar.com
By: Mary Beth Schneider and Brendan O'Shaughnessy
mary.beth.schneider@indystar.com
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090327/LOCAL18/903270383/-1/ARCHIVE

March 27, 2009

Lawmakers: CIB fix will be 'shared pain'
Higher taxes, cash from Colts are options to overcome $20M shortfall


Solving the financial woes afflicting the Capital Improvement Board will be the responsibility of Marion County taxpayers, fans, visitors and Indianapolis' two largest sports teams.

That was the sentiment most clearly heard Thursday at the Statehouse, where lawmakers have been engaged in intense behind-closed-doors negotiations to find a way to bail out the agency that runs sports stadiums in Indianapolis.

Few specifics were available, but legislative leaders said many options were being discussed -- including requiring the Indianapolis Colts to pony up money, raising alcohol or hotel and restaurant taxes, and expanding special tax districts that already capture sales and income taxes for special purposes such as the arenas. Even raising parking meter fees has been floated.

Most likely, they said, is finding a way to tap a revenue stream that takes dollars from those who actually benefit from the facilities -- and doesn't tax people across the state to help out Marion County.

"Obviously, we're stuck trying to find an answer here. We're going to have to pass some legislation," said Senate President Pro Tempore David Long, R-Fort Wayne.

"My goal, and I think a lot of people's goal, is to try to make this pretty much a Marion County solution for the CIB. Whether that's possible or not remains to be seen."

The CIB is facing a $20 million shortfall this year, and that could grow next year if the Indiana Pacers, who are losing money, can't pay the team's $15 million share of the costs of Conseco Fieldhouse.

The lobbying at the Statehouse began weeks ago. On Wednesday, Herb Simon, co-owner of the Pacers, met with Gov. Mitch Daniels, though details of what they discussed were not available.

Sen. Luke Kenley, the Noblesville Republican who is working with Rep. Bill Crawford, D-Indianapolis, on the issue, said lawmakers would meet again next week with "all of the appropriate parties."

"It's probably going to be behind closed doors to get a feel about where we could go," he said.

A contribution from the Colts was at the top of the list for many lawmakers.

House Speaker B. Patrick Bauer, D-South Bend, said legislators wonder "why there is no contribution from the Colts to equal what the Pacers contribute."

The Colts negotiated what many now regard as a sweetheart deal for Lucas Oil Stadium, pocketing an estimated $41 million annually in new revenue above the $150 million a year the club had made at its old stadium, the RCA Dome.

Kenley said he's had a couple of meetings with Colts attorney Dan Emerson about the issue.

"Everybody wants to solve the problem. Nobody is very happy about giving up any revenues or finding revenues on their own part. It's going to be a shared pain," he said.

Colts owner Jim Irsay was unavailable for comment. Greg Schenkel, vice president of sports and entertainment for the Pacers, said the team is "not engaged in any active discussions (with lawmakers). We've been asked questions about our situation. This is not about the Pacers. It's about the CIB."

Lawmakers expressed frustration Thursday that Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard has not laid out a proposal for what is essentially a city problem.

Senate Minority Leader Vi Simpson, D-Ellettsville, said Ballard needs to "take a position on a solution before it's put out there for a vote."

Ballard declined an interview, instead issuing a statement that said: "We have been open and forthcoming with the legislature about the severity of our situation, and I appreciate the effort the legislators are making to help find a solution. I look forward to a continued and constructive dialogue with all stakeholders."

A month ago, Ballard said he would prefer a ticket or admissions tax that collects from the stadiums' users rather than a general tax such as food and beverage.

But he has said little publicly over the past few weeks about the ongoing negotiations with the legislature.

Additional Facts
What are the odds?
Food and beverage taxes: Bumping up Marion County's 2 percent food and beverage tax by 1 percentage point would bring in $18 million a year. This is one of the best options because it raises the most money. But opposition from taxpayer groups would be high. Odds: Still alive.

Hotel taxes: An increase of 1 percent in Marion County's 9 percent hotel/motel tax would drum up $4 million a year. The hotel industry is opposed to any increase, saying it would make it more difficult for Indianapolis to compete against other cities for convention business. Odds: On the table.

Raising admission taxes: Increasing Marion County's 6 percent admissions tax by 1 percentage point would bring in $1.5 million a year. Mayor Greg Ballard likes this idea, though the Indiana Pacers are especially loath to do this because it would make it harder for the team, already struggling with thin turnout, to draw crowds. Odds: Possible.

Concessions from the teams: The Indianapolis Colts now get a share of revenues generated during non-Colts events at Lucas Oil Stadium. Giving that up would mean $3.5 million for the Capital Improvement Board a year. The Pacers hope the CIB will assume $15 million a year in operating costs at Conseco Fieldhouse. As a compromise, the CIB might assume a portion of that amount. Odds: Uncertain.

Expanding taxing districts: Adding new hotels and other stadium-related businesses to a sales tax increment financing district in Downtown would generate $10 million a year. Odds: Possible.

Alcohol tax: Indiana's spirits, wine and beer taxes are on the low end, but lawmakers are more interested in solutions that affect Marion County alone, not the whole state. The taxes raise about $42 million a year, which is split between the state and local governments. Odds: Unlikely.


Alcohol taxes
Note: All amounts are per gallon.

In Indiana
» Spirits: $2.68.
» Table wine: 47 cents.
» Beer: 11.5 cents.

In neighboring states
» Illinois: $4.50 for spirits, 73 cents for wine, 18.5 cents for beer.
» Kentucky: $1.94 for spirits, 50 cents for wine, 10 cents for beer. (There's an extra 11 percent wholesale tax on alcohol.)
» Ohio: $8.73 for spirits, 32 cents for wine, 18 cents for beer. (State controls alcohol sales.)

Source: The Tax Foundation, data as of January
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
Most likely, they said, is finding a way to tap a revenue stream that takes dollars from those who actually benefit from the facilities -- and doesn't tax people across the state to help out Marion County.

"Obviously, we're stuck trying to find an answer here. We're going to have to pass some legislation," said Senate President Pro Tempore David Long, R-Fort Wayne.
One of the differences between Indiana and California is you have ONE NBA franchise. We, for whatever good or bad comes of it, have four. Our legislature would not get drawn in - and I won't even hint about some of the politics that would be involved.

;)
 
#10
Yep, the State will never really get involved, except very indirectly if the Cal Expo deal goes forward. Cal Expo would be similar to your CIB. The State only approved Cal Expo as a legal entity able to issue bonds. The State does not provide funding to Cal Expo.

And any kind of taxes in California is just flat out a bear to get passed. That even includes taxes that would benefit a large segment of the population.

Finally, the Sacramento region is one of the hardest hit areas in the whole U.S. by the current economic situation.

At least you have a nice arena, Roaming Gnome. The Kings play in a cheap dump. The memories there are precious, but the building needs to be razed. Then Sacramento region won't have an arena for any events at all. :(
 
#11
Yep, the State will never really get involved, except very indirectly if the Cal Expo deal goes forward. Cal Expo would be similar to your CIB. The State only approved Cal Expo as a legal entity able to issue bonds. The State does not provide funding to Cal Expo.

And any kind of taxes in California is just flat out a bear to get passed. That even includes taxes that would benefit a large segment of the population.

Finally, the Sacramento region is one of the hardest hit areas in the whole U.S. by the current economic situation.

At least you have a nice arena, Roaming Gnome. The Kings play in a cheap dump. The memories there are precious, but the building needs to be razed. Then Sacramento region won't have an arena for any events at all. :(

Indiana is so afraid of being "irrelevant" that at the end of the day... The state will build a stadium or arena to avoid the bad publicity of losing a team and the "indicator" that the area is in decline.

We are in a fortunate position to be able to lobby the state for help, but in the end... It's going to be a Marion County solution.

What has changed in Sacramento? I know before the success with Webber and Vlade, didn't Sacramento have a record streak of sell-outs? Here in Indy, before our success in '94... We were a .500 team attracting about 8,500 a night. Indy fan is just being Indy fan. The same will happen with the Colts when Peyton is on his downside (you didn't hear me say that ;) ).
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#12
Before the Webber era - or days of "The TEAM" as we like to call it - we fans were still just hicks very happy to have a professional franchise in town. Then, however, much like the farm kids who saw "Paree," we got a taste of what it was like to have a GOOD team and a lot of fans got spoiled. When you add in the rise in ticket prices, the disgust over how Adelman was treated, the horrific Artest experiment that failed, the Musselman fiasco and then the inevitable drop towards the bottom of the barrel, fans just didn't bother to show up.

On March 6, however, it was made apparent the fans are still around, just waiting for something to cheer about. The crowd in attendance for the retirement of Webb's jersey was reminiscent in all the good way of the days of THE TEAM, when Arco Thunder reigned supreme.

Kings fans will return...the lowering of prices will help, the energy and hustle of kids on the court instead of aged veterans will help, and the acquisition of a lottery pick - especially if it ends up being someone like Griffin - will help.

Indiana fans and Sacramento fans are an awful lot alike. Look at our websites and the quality of posters. Even there, the similarities outnumber the differences.

:)
 
#13
I go to the indiana site during the offseason and before the trade deadline to see if we can get any Kings rumblings out of there. Also the rockets forum and realgm.

Kind of like fishing.
 
#15
Looks like the alcohol proposal will be heard tomorrow...

Wish TV
By: Staff reporters
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/region_1/CIB_bailout_proposal_to_include_tax_hikes_20090401


CIB Bailout Proposal to include Tax Hikes
Marion County taxpayers to pay extra


INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) - Get ready to pay more for a beer in Indiana. Key state lawmakers will propose a hike in the alcohol tax on Thursday.

Read more about the proposal and what people are saying about it in Jim Shella's Political Blog .

The proposed hike in the alcohol tax is part of a tax package designed to bailout the Capital Improvement Board and pay operating expenses at Conseco Fieldhouse and Lucas Oil Stadium.

The alcohol tax will double. Meaning, the cost of a drink would go up a penny or so, the cost of a case of beer will go up 25 cents.

In Marion County, there will be a new stadium ticket tax and a hike in hospitality taxes.

Mayor Greg Ballard will be the lead witness at a state Senate committee hearing, where the package will be unveiled Thursday. There will also be contributions by the Colts and Pacers, whose representatives met in private with key lawmakers on Monday.

Two days ago, Sen. Luke Kenley (R) Noblesville said, "I think everybody's accepting of the fact that all the parties are probably gonna have to contribute on some basis."

A beer distributor who met with lawmakers in private Wednesday declined an interview request.

The alcohol lobbyists are already working to kill the proposal.
 
#17
I just thought that I'd come by and give a little bit of an update on where we are at here in Indiana. The last time I was here we Pacer fans were pretty confident that our situation was about to be solved concerning the Pacers lease with Conseco Fieldhouse. It all centered around a proposal for an increase on the state's alcohol tax to fund the CIB (entity that manages Indys sports venues). Well as mentioned, the state did pass it, but along with the increase in the alcohol tax there were provisions for an increase in the hotel tax, prepared food and beverage tax, the venue admission tax, and both the Colts and Pacers were expected to chip in $5M a year.

Between the Indianapolis Colts flat out refusing to chip in anything (eventhough it's their stadium that has caused the shortfall) and the city-county council being effectively lobbied by taxpayers and local business that didn't want to give corporate welfare to the Simons. The bill didn't pass what many of us expected to be the shortest hurdle. Right now, there is no plan...Just a lot of worry on how this will be resolved among Pacer fans.

Currently, there are internet rumors about discussions between Herb Simon and the owner of the Vancouver Canucks in regards to the Simons selling the team and their re-location to Vancouver. The rumors are not very strong considering they all seem to lead back to a blogger on a web-site call "Bleacher Report".

Here is the link to our thread on Pacers Digest about the topic. There seems to be a lot of speculation from some of our posters that the Kings are in dire straits...Feel free to stop by and set some of them strait.