AleksandarN
Starter
Evenstar said:
What you would not take Chris Paul?
Artests Impact... On Bibby?
- Thread starter SacKings384
- Start date
What you would not take Chris Paul?
Sacto=Slappo
G-League
I don't know about trade, seems kinda "fly-by-night" to me...but I do think that with shooters it's a mental thing. Granted, he's always needed to work on his defense but Ron came and really changed the offensive dynamic (ie. Nazman said it w/ the two man game of Brad/Bibby), but Ron came along that the same time that it was pretty certain that Bibby was going nowhere near Houston for the AS Game. It's probably just a mental slump...things'll heat up down the stretch!
bigbadred00
Starter
AleksandarN said:What you would not take Chris Paul?
Chris Paul would be hot. Guy has been amazing this year. He's a real PG, something that is rarely seen in the league.
Only real PGs I can think of are Nash and Kidd. Otherwise you see mostly combo guards in the league. Chauncey I guess can also be included, Tinsley isn't bad either. But you get guys like Terry, Bibby, Miller, Baron, who like to shoot. Paul would be awesome, but I can't see NO parting with him for probally the world right now. He's taken a forsaken franchise and has them flirting with the 5th seed with him and David West and then a bunch of scrubs. PJ is on his last legs, Mason is OVERRATED, Claxton ain't bad. But we could only wish.
Bibby I think will work alright, if not, I don't see any quick remedies. Real PG are just few and far between.
Folsom Al
Starter
The word is ACCEPTANCE ... and until Bibby realizes THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN SAC-TOWN (for the better, of course), games will be up-n-down for him.
IMO - Bibby is STILL one of the first options in CRUNCH-TIME ... but, he's not the ONLY option.
We all know Miller's number could be called, but add to that list: Artest or Martin.
The TEAM CHEMISTRY has changed (for the better, of course) and the King's are establishing an IDENTITY (for the better, of course).
One thing I've noticed is how Artest has taken a liking to both Martin and Garcia. Anybody else notice after the Hawks/Kings game was over, that Ron waited for Garcia to come off the court.
I notice Ron talking with both Martin & Garcia before/during/after games.
IMO - Bibby is STILL one of the first options in CRUNCH-TIME ... but, he's not the ONLY option.
We all know Miller's number could be called, but add to that list: Artest or Martin.
The TEAM CHEMISTRY has changed (for the better, of course) and the King's are establishing an IDENTITY (for the better, of course).
One thing I've noticed is how Artest has taken a liking to both Martin and Garcia. Anybody else notice after the Hawks/Kings game was over, that Ron waited for Garcia to come off the court.
I notice Ron talking with both Martin & Garcia before/during/after games.
Burrito06
Bench
I think Bibby is just getting tired. If you notice he's not getting a whole lot of lift on his jump shots. I think the minutes he's been getting is starting to wear on him. You have to think also that he hasn't has a solid back up these past three years. Yeah we had Bobby but he was hurt the majority of the time. Once the all-star break comes, the rest he will get will be valuable to us making a push for the playoffs.
Bibby_10
Bench
PFFFT!! said:As in this year. Since when is asking that Bibby and Corliss be traded taking a shot at them? I just think we need an little more upgrade at the PG position. Just my opinion of course. Dont take it too personal
Honestly with that logic we need an upgrade at most positions including the PF position. SAR is not at par with the TD's and KG's of the NBA. So I guess he has to go too.
bozzwell
Starter
Did I miss something? Bibby was up and down whole year, long before Artest arrived. Just check the grades thread. Sprinkling of A's and F's that we haven't associated with Bibbster ever before.
In the long term I excpect that Artest's perimter D and 'tude will help Bibby in the same way that Christie's did.
In the long term I excpect that Artest's perimter D and 'tude will help Bibby in the same way that Christie's did.
P
playmaker0017
Guest
SKFFL said:
The problem is that Mike Bibby brings something no one else on the roster brings - a consistant deep shot. Miller has an amazing midrange shot, Reef has the midrange, Artest is spotty deep and good midrange, Thomas is midrange, Bonzi is okay midrange, Martin is developing a deeper shot ... Bibby has the shot.
Defensively, you've got your pick of the litter at who plays better defense than Bibby. Pretty much every PG in the league.
So, it'd be dang near impossible to trade him for what we need. There just aren't many TRUE PGs that have a great deep ball. I'd place my money with Bibby.
Bibby's problem is that we get different extremes on two ends. A big time shooter on the offensive end and a porous defender on the defensive end. If he is an adequate and maybe even a slightly below average defender, then the Kings would be okay. Some people say Steve Nash is pretty much the same way as Bibby in term of defense but I see Steve does try hard on defense and his offense creation skill (paramountly important skill for any point guard) is second to none. Nash's huge plus definitely make up for his weakness.
Anyway, I just hope that Bibby starts putting more effort into defense or he just might become a trade bait in two years when Artest are due for a big contract.
Anyway, I just hope that Bibby starts putting more effort into defense or he just might become a trade bait in two years when Artest are due for a big contract.
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Bibby_10 said:
If Artest transcends himself into a superstar level player in the next two year, you will definitely see money as an issue for the Kings because it will take huge amount money to re-sign him. Anyway, that is not a worry that should concern the Kings now because the kings still have one and a half year before they need to make some moves to accomadate Ron's anticipated huge salary raise.
I missed yesterdays game but when I watched the game against the Suns, Bibby would just walk it up so slow, he always is close to getting the 8 second call. Why does he do that? By the time he gets the offense ready, we have to hurry because he wasted so much time off the clock. Bibby just looks tired or something? I like it when Garcia plays the PG, because he is quicker then Bibby, plays way better defense and rebounds well. When Bibby's shot is on, he is money but when it's not falling for him, he hurts us being out there because it's not like he is doing all the other things like playing D, rebounding etc.
I do think people are way too tough on Bibby's lack of defense though. If you think about it, he has had four 40+ games and six 30+ games, so that tells me the opposing PG's in those games must not be playing defense either.
Bibby needs to take it to the rim more, get more aggressive. He can knock down the FT's, so maybe if he goes inside a little more, his game will pick back up.
I do think people are way too tough on Bibby's lack of defense though. If you think about it, he has had four 40+ games and six 30+ games, so that tells me the opposing PG's in those games must not be playing defense either.
Bibby needs to take it to the rim more, get more aggressive. He can knock down the FT's, so maybe if he goes inside a little more, his game will pick back up.
SacKings384
Starter
My god how has this turned into a trade Mike Bibby thread? Some people just don't realize that trading away all that is good in your franchise isn't a good thing. Where's the damn loyalty? Hell, Bibby carries us ALL SEASON, without him we wouldn't even have a CHANCE at the playoffs... He's been with the Kings for a LONG time, and hasn't complained about shots, hasn't complained about money, hasn't complained about playing time, hasn't complained about ANYTHING. He has been a constant professional on and off the court. His best friend gets traded... "I'll miss him, but that's business" His whole team gets shipped off, his team is struggling, and he doesn't demand a trade nor even complain. He hits shots in the clutch, he's our ONLY real deep ball threat... Come on... Trade Bibby? You gotta be kidding me?
I know one thing, I never said to trade Bibby. I mean who could you get that is available that is better? Bibby is like an allstar PG that just never gets voted in. I mean he averages more the Parker and still Parker gets the nod. People say Parker gets the nod over Bibby because of our losing record but that doesn't make since, Mitch Richmond was a six time allstar when we werre having 35 games seasons. Parker is good but is a little overrated to me, while Bibby is underrated.
Elise10
Starter
SacKings384 said:
Wow, I guess that's just telling how you really feel at it's finest !
I understand Bibby's shortcomings.......they are what they are, have been for years now. They may improve somewhat now that Artest is here.
Loyalty is good when the team as a whole is doing good. When it's not it's replaced by criticism, which in turn leads to trade talks and WTF are they thinking type threads.
What I fail to understand is that for every little thing that Mike does there's always someone wanting to trade him. If he's scoring 30-40 points on end then he's shutting his teammates out. If he's letting someone else shine, then he's not being a leader. Don't get started on the likes of Baron Davis or Stephon Marbury because it's not gonna make this team any better.
bigbadred00
Starter
Nah, I never said trade Bibby unless 4 or 5 guys who will never be on the plate were up. Just like I'd trade my brother for KG if he was possible. Bibby is the best available PG for our team. He has been struggling, but he's definitely a guy we need producing when it comes to our success. He isn't a pure PG, but then again with Brad in the lineup do we really need one? The problem I have with Bibby will always be the same, he's horrible defensively, but so are most of the PGs in the league other than Billups. PGs are small and usually slow, thus not very inclined for D.
If I had a list of things I'd want from a PG, I'd be the following:
First-Passing Skills (Average/Above Average)
Second-Leader Ship (Average / Below Average)
Third-Scoring (Above Average / High, Gilbert is really the only PG who is a better scorer than Bibby)
Fourth-Defense (Below Average/Slightly Below Average, Nash is terrible, Kidd isn't as good as he used to be, Parker really isn't that great)
Five-Rebounds-Above Average
I think Bibby is a top 10 PG easily.
I'd take Paul, Kidd, Nash, and Billups over him.
Baron Davis I guess we've found out isn't a savior. Cassell is probally on par with Bibby. Miller, Tinsley, Marbury (are probally even). Although, personally I'd take Bibby as the 5th best PG in the league.
If I had a list of things I'd want from a PG, I'd be the following:
First-Passing Skills (Average/Above Average)
Second-Leader Ship (Average / Below Average)
Third-Scoring (Above Average / High, Gilbert is really the only PG who is a better scorer than Bibby)
Fourth-Defense (Below Average/Slightly Below Average, Nash is terrible, Kidd isn't as good as he used to be, Parker really isn't that great)
Five-Rebounds-Above Average
I think Bibby is a top 10 PG easily.
I'd take Paul, Kidd, Nash, and Billups over him.
Baron Davis I guess we've found out isn't a savior. Cassell is probally on par with Bibby. Miller, Tinsley, Marbury (are probally even). Although, personally I'd take Bibby as the 5th best PG in the league.
Ah, good. As I mentioned in another thread, the sharks are circling in the water. The "Fantasy League/Video Game" theory of NBA management is a recent phenomena, created by people who spend way too much time playing virtual basketball IMHO.
Blech...
DISCLAIMER: This is a general comment and not particularly directed at any one person or post...
Blech...
DISCLAIMER: This is a general comment and not particularly directed at any one person or post...
Bibby_10
Bench
Parker is very good at taking it to the rim. BUT give him a hard foul just once (non-flagerant of course) and send him to the floor and he starts playing scared. Remember what the Lakers did to him in the 2004 Western Conf. Semifinals. First 2 games he was unstoppable then the Lakers started playing aggressive against him and completely took him out of the game.MCPATD said:
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Parker 2004 cannot possibly be compared with Parker 2006. Well, you can but it's about as valid as comparing Martin 2004/5 to Martin 2006.
Players change...
As far as Artest's impact on Bibby goes, I think people are forgetting a couple of KEY factors. Bibby prefers to be the side-kick. We saw it with Webber and it was good.
This trade has come in the middle of the season. Ron and Mike haven't gotten to know each other's games yet. Give them a little time. I'm reasonably sure that Artest will have a positive influence on Bibby's game. Mike wants to win as much as the next guy and he's no fool. They'll work it out and we'll all be the better for it. Maybe Ron could give him a monogramed nail clipper with "tru warier" on it and break the ice?
Players change...
As far as Artest's impact on Bibby goes, I think people are forgetting a couple of KEY factors. Bibby prefers to be the side-kick. We saw it with Webber and it was good.
This trade has come in the middle of the season. Ron and Mike haven't gotten to know each other's games yet. Give them a little time. I'm reasonably sure that Artest will have a positive influence on Bibby's game. Mike wants to win as much as the next guy and he's no fool. They'll work it out and we'll all be the better for it. Maybe Ron could give him a monogramed nail clipper with "tru warier" on it and break the ice?
PFFFT!!
Starter
Bibby_10 said:
Well...they do have something mayor in common. You get rid of SAR, you would have to package someone with him to get a decent player. If you get rid of Bibby and package him with someone, you would get someone with a little more value since he would make more money. Of course I understand that there are overpaid players, but you will have worse time looking for a good player at bargain basement price...unless you get Peja back and are willing to lose him at the end of the season.
bigbadred00
Starter
PFFFT!! said:Well...they do have something mayor in common. You get rid of SAR, you would have to package someone with him to get a decent player. If you get rid of Bibby and package him with someone, you would get someone with a little more value since he would make more money. Of course I understand that there are overpaid players, but you will have worse time looking for a good player at bargain basement price...unless you get Peja back and are willing to lose him at the end of the season.
Rookie Contracts:
I know these guys aren't available, but there contracts are SOOPPER tiny. I don't care about trading either. I don't think it'll happen.
Bosh
Lebron
Wade
Paul
Okafor
Gordon (not really that great)
Melo
Howard (jOsh)
Howard (Dwight)
They all have really nice contracts, but not 1 of them is possibly moving.
chelle
Starter
SacKings384 said:
I agree with you.
Bibby has weaknesses. Name one player on our roster that doesn't. Heck, name ANY player that doesn't. KG is about the closest thing to a perfect player (my opinion) and even has has proven that leadership is not his best qualities.
With Bibby, his biggest weakness is defense. Plain as day - no arguing it. However, I HAVE noticed an improvement since Artest, not a lot, but anything helps. Then again, until recently, that has been a weakness for all our players.
However, his strengths outweigh his weaknesses. I know many say that he does not direct the team very well, but I disagree. I think he sees the court very well and leads the players accordingly. Again, this is more on offense.
Back to the original topic - every quote that I have seen by Bibby and Artest have been great about his coming here. Artest has said more than once that he talked to Mike even BEFORE the trade came close and Bibby said that he should play for the Kings. A friend and I were even discussing the other day if Bibby had actually pushed for the trade. I do not think that he is upset that Artest is becoming more of the vocal leader. Now, NONE of us really know what is in their heads, but I say that he is simply tired and adjusting.
His shots will improve (I DO NOT EXPECT MANY MORE 35+ games) as will his defense (along with the rest of the team). I simply do not consider him a weakness on this team.
LilMissDiva
Bench
playmaker0017 said:
Exactly.
