Artest for Howard
- Thread starter Kingsin07
- Start date
Oh god. Did Peja even get any MVP votes that season? Just because people say that someone was an MVP candidate doesn't mean that he really was. I can put myself on the national ballot in November and be a presidential candidate, but that doesn't mean that I really am a candidate for the presidency.
I'm not trying to bash Peja, and I was never as down on him as other people here were/are, but just because he was the #1 scorer on a team with the best record in basketball doesn't make him an MVP candidate. Sorry.
And if you think Peja has more talent than Josh Howard because he's a better shooter, think again. Howard is a better rebounder, better defender, he's quicker, he's stronger around the basket, he handles the ball better, more athletic, etc. Peja is more talented than Howard in the same way that Jason Kapono is more talented than Shawn Marion, or like Kyle Korver is more talented than Shane Battier. In other words, he's not.
And all those things that Howard does better than Peja Ron does better, too. But we still got him straight up for Peja, because he has baggage.
And that baggage is the reason Pacers management stonewalled him, because he went ape s*** in the Palace, then when they stood behind him, he stabbed them in the back by threatening to retire and then asking for a trade. So they sat his loony a** down and traded him. I don't think Ron is a bad guy, but like Brick said, placing the blame on anyone but him for the way things went in Indiana is like claiming that Saddam invaded the US.
I'm not trying to bash Peja, and I was never as down on him as other people here were/are, but just because he was the #1 scorer on a team with the best record in basketball doesn't make him an MVP candidate. Sorry.
And if you think Peja has more talent than Josh Howard because he's a better shooter, think again. Howard is a better rebounder, better defender, he's quicker, he's stronger around the basket, he handles the ball better, more athletic, etc. Peja is more talented than Howard in the same way that Jason Kapono is more talented than Shawn Marion, or like Kyle Korver is more talented than Shane Battier. In other words, he's not.
And all those things that Howard does better than Peja Ron does better, too. But we still got him straight up for Peja, because he has baggage.
And that baggage is the reason Pacers management stonewalled him, because he went ape s*** in the Palace, then when they stood behind him, he stabbed them in the back by threatening to retire and then asking for a trade. So they sat his loony a** down and traded him. I don't think Ron is a bad guy, but like Brick said, placing the blame on anyone but him for the way things went in Indiana is like claiming that Saddam invaded the US.
I do NOT want this deal to go down. If you guys think Ron is a black hole, just wait for Howard.
Consider this:
The Mavs have played a slower tempo this season compared to previous years. The team's pace factor this season is 90.2, meaning they average that number of possessions per 48 minutes. Howard averages 36.3 minutes per game, and as the second option, he puts up 16.4 FGA and 2.2 AST.
Now, the Kings played faster than the Mavs this season, with a pace of 94.7. Ron leads the team in FGA, and handles the ball a lot more than Martin, so he can be called the team's first option. On a faster paced team, and being the first option, he averages 16.9 FGA, and 3.5 AST in 38.1 MPG
What does that mean? It means that Howard, playing fewer minutes than Ron, and being the second option on a team that has less possessions than SAC, still puts up the same amount of shots as Ron, and has less assists. Ouch. Granted, his turnovers are lower, but that's about it. His defense isn't as good as Ron, and his FG% isn't better. He shoots .455, and .319 from 3, while Ron shoots .453 and .380 from 3.
Not to mention Josh was a no-show against the hornets in the playoffs, and he brings his own baggage with team distractions.
If you take this into account, and his contract deal into account, where he's making roughly 21 mil over the next two seasons, and take into account the team's talent, IMO it's better to stick with Ron and the options that brings.
If Ron opts out, the kings can do a sign-and-trade possibly for better talent, or he could stay on another year where more deals can be made. Either way, it's a better position for the team, IMO than to get Howard for two more years.
Consider this:
The Mavs have played a slower tempo this season compared to previous years. The team's pace factor this season is 90.2, meaning they average that number of possessions per 48 minutes. Howard averages 36.3 minutes per game, and as the second option, he puts up 16.4 FGA and 2.2 AST.
Now, the Kings played faster than the Mavs this season, with a pace of 94.7. Ron leads the team in FGA, and handles the ball a lot more than Martin, so he can be called the team's first option. On a faster paced team, and being the first option, he averages 16.9 FGA, and 3.5 AST in 38.1 MPG
What does that mean? It means that Howard, playing fewer minutes than Ron, and being the second option on a team that has less possessions than SAC, still puts up the same amount of shots as Ron, and has less assists. Ouch. Granted, his turnovers are lower, but that's about it. His defense isn't as good as Ron, and his FG% isn't better. He shoots .455, and .319 from 3, while Ron shoots .453 and .380 from 3.
Not to mention Josh was a no-show against the hornets in the playoffs, and he brings his own baggage with team distractions.
If you take this into account, and his contract deal into account, where he's making roughly 21 mil over the next two seasons, and take into account the team's talent, IMO it's better to stick with Ron and the options that brings.
If Ron opts out, the kings can do a sign-and-trade possibly for better talent, or he could stay on another year where more deals can be made. Either way, it's a better position for the team, IMO than to get Howard for two more years.
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Kings/Mavs talking trade....mavs interested in beno
When Avery Johnson took over the Dallas Mavericks one of the first things he did was trade away some of the players who were considered to be "Nellie's boys" (most notably Marquis Daniels) in favor of acquiring some players who better fit his own system. It's only natural to think that Rick Carlisle will do the same.
The Sacramento Kings are widely rumored to be the first trading partner for a Mavericks team that will likely have five roster spots to fill this summer. Dallas has already spoken to Kings free agent point guard Beno Udrih, who impressed many with his outstanding play when Mike Bibby was injured last season. Now some comments from Carlisle on Dallas radio have led us to believe that the Mavericks might renew their interest in Ron Artest.
"Of course," Carlisle said of wanting Artest in his locker room again. "This guy is one of the real difference-makers that we have in this league. He's had one all-star year; that's when he played for me. I've had a chance to reconnect with Ronnie a couple times over the last couple of years. I love him and I love his family, so yeah. This guy was one of the most physical, intimidating players that I've ever seen at the small forward position, so he'd be a player that any team would want to have."
Artest also perfectly fits the description that both Mark Cuban and Carlisle gave when addressing their roster needs.
"There are three things that are a priority for every team in the league right now," Carlisle explained in his press conference on Wednesday. "Athleticism, an ability to drive the ball because of the way the game is played and officiated, and the third thing is three-point shooting. The three-pointer has become probably the most potent weapon in this league. Along with having great players like Dirk and some other guys, the three-point shot is huge and can make up for a lot of other problems. If you're hitting threes you can mask a lot of other things that may not be strengths for your team."
Ironically, Josh Howard fits that description at least as well as Artest, and when he's at his best he fits it better. The question for the Mavericks becomes one of urgency. They have two seasons to win a championship with Jason Kidd, after which the aging point guard will likely start thinking about his Hall of Fame induction ceremony and hang up the sneaks. The decision to trade for Kidd was a statement that the Mavericks didn't believe Devin Harris would reach his full potential while Dirk Nowitzki is still in his prime. That being the case, a Howard-for-Artest swap would be consistent, as it's certainly not clear whether or not Howard will be able to reach his full potential within the given time frame - especially after he took several steps back after the Kidd trade.
There's no question Artest is a better defender than Howard, and we've all seen Artest step up in pressure situations, in playoffs situations. The Mavericks are basically looking at the next two seasons as their championship window, and there's no question Artest is a player who could take them much closer to reaching that goal.
But the Mavericks are also all about second chances. They gave Jerry Stackhouse a chance to prove he could be a positive locker room presence, and Stack responded in a big way. They took a chance on Jason Terry when most had written him off and the result was a trip to the Finals with Terry at the helm. If the Mavericks feel that Josh can get himself together off the court, they may choose to stick with him and see what his upside might be.
The Kings would certainly love to see him evolve next to the extremely underrated Kevin Martin.
If there is a deal to be made, it wouldn't be a stretch to see Anthony Johnson (sign-and-trade) return to Dallas as part of the filler needed to offset the difference between Artest's salary and Howard's. The Kings could also look to tie on one of their many albatross contracts (Abdur-Rahim, Kenny Thomas) just to get rid of them. That would likely be a deal-breaker for Dallas, as it was for many teams just before the trade deadline.
For what it's worth, Artest said several times he doesn't plan to opt out this summer, which his contract allows him to do.
The Mavericks are also considered the favorites to retain the services of free agent center Gana Diop, who was part of the Kidd trade. He told HOOPSWORLD he would love nothing better than to return to Dallas, and the Mavericks were certainly never the same defensively after he (and Devin Harris, by the way) left.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=8691
When Avery Johnson took over the Dallas Mavericks one of the first things he did was trade away some of the players who were considered to be "Nellie's boys" (most notably Marquis Daniels) in favor of acquiring some players who better fit his own system. It's only natural to think that Rick Carlisle will do the same.
The Sacramento Kings are widely rumored to be the first trading partner for a Mavericks team that will likely have five roster spots to fill this summer. Dallas has already spoken to Kings free agent point guard Beno Udrih, who impressed many with his outstanding play when Mike Bibby was injured last season. Now some comments from Carlisle on Dallas radio have led us to believe that the Mavericks might renew their interest in Ron Artest.
"Of course," Carlisle said of wanting Artest in his locker room again. "This guy is one of the real difference-makers that we have in this league. He's had one all-star year; that's when he played for me. I've had a chance to reconnect with Ronnie a couple times over the last couple of years. I love him and I love his family, so yeah. This guy was one of the most physical, intimidating players that I've ever seen at the small forward position, so he'd be a player that any team would want to have."
Artest also perfectly fits the description that both Mark Cuban and Carlisle gave when addressing their roster needs.
"There are three things that are a priority for every team in the league right now," Carlisle explained in his press conference on Wednesday. "Athleticism, an ability to drive the ball because of the way the game is played and officiated, and the third thing is three-point shooting. The three-pointer has become probably the most potent weapon in this league. Along with having great players like Dirk and some other guys, the three-point shot is huge and can make up for a lot of other problems. If you're hitting threes you can mask a lot of other things that may not be strengths for your team."
Ironically, Josh Howard fits that description at least as well as Artest, and when he's at his best he fits it better. The question for the Mavericks becomes one of urgency. They have two seasons to win a championship with Jason Kidd, after which the aging point guard will likely start thinking about his Hall of Fame induction ceremony and hang up the sneaks. The decision to trade for Kidd was a statement that the Mavericks didn't believe Devin Harris would reach his full potential while Dirk Nowitzki is still in his prime. That being the case, a Howard-for-Artest swap would be consistent, as it's certainly not clear whether or not Howard will be able to reach his full potential within the given time frame - especially after he took several steps back after the Kidd trade.
There's no question Artest is a better defender than Howard, and we've all seen Artest step up in pressure situations, in playoffs situations. The Mavericks are basically looking at the next two seasons as their championship window, and there's no question Artest is a player who could take them much closer to reaching that goal.
But the Mavericks are also all about second chances. They gave Jerry Stackhouse a chance to prove he could be a positive locker room presence, and Stack responded in a big way. They took a chance on Jason Terry when most had written him off and the result was a trip to the Finals with Terry at the helm. If the Mavericks feel that Josh can get himself together off the court, they may choose to stick with him and see what his upside might be.
The Kings would certainly love to see him evolve next to the extremely underrated Kevin Martin.
If there is a deal to be made, it wouldn't be a stretch to see Anthony Johnson (sign-and-trade) return to Dallas as part of the filler needed to offset the difference between Artest's salary and Howard's. The Kings could also look to tie on one of their many albatross contracts (Abdur-Rahim, Kenny Thomas) just to get rid of them. That would likely be a deal-breaker for Dallas, as it was for many teams just before the trade deadline.
For what it's worth, Artest said several times he doesn't plan to opt out this summer, which his contract allows him to do.
The Mavericks are also considered the favorites to retain the services of free agent center Gana Diop, who was part of the Kidd trade. He told HOOPSWORLD he would love nothing better than to return to Dallas, and the Mavericks were certainly never the same defensively after he (and Devin Harris, by the way) left.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=8691
Why would you want to trade artest for howard when josh howard is a SG more than a SF, then who is going to get the assignment on guarding the best player .I like howard but i have seen him have trouble keeping players out of the paint other than that he is a good all around player I like his rebounding skills also.
In a nut shell i like howard just not for artest who as of this moment is the most complete player on the team and by the way was 2nd in the nba in steals only behind cp3 by a margin of .3 spg all while playing the blasted zone defense.
In a nut shell i like howard just not for artest who as of this moment is the most complete player on the team and by the way was 2nd in the nba in steals only behind cp3 by a margin of .3 spg all while playing the blasted zone defense.
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