Another Arena proposal

Danny Ocean · Nov 30, 2005

If it comes down to a vote on whether to use public funds this thing goes down in a ball of flames.
There are simply more people that can care less about the kings than do. I know that a new arena would benefit more than just the kings but I still think people just don't care. If anyone expects public money to be used for a new arena then they are sorely uninformed about the voting base of sacramento.

kennadog · Nov 30, 2005

The bond originally proposed was only the city of Sacramento. Surrounding areas have been totally cool on the idea of any interjurisdictional cooperation on funding. Like the Mayor of Roseville wanting to know what the benefit would be to his City. (No one in Roseville has ever or will ever go to any event in Arco.

)

This proposal by Tsakopoulos is virtually dead on arrival, if you ask me. And I think he is only putting it out there, because it is the only proposal and we are basically out of time. Makes me want to cry, but it looks like bye-bye Kings. You can see that attendance is off at the games, because the team doesn't look like a "contender." Doesn't look like there are enough "through thick and thin" fans in the region anymore. The fan base was probably the main reason the Maloofs really wanted to stay here. If attendance drops way off....absolutely no reason to stay.

And we won't even have Arco, unless someone steps in to buy it and is willing to put some money into it. Even that won't be enough to bring back events that don't consider Arco a financially feasible venue for them anymore.

Bricklayer · Nov 30, 2005

Oh, I think this whole thing is saying a great deal about the voting base in Sacramento. Primarily that I'm very glad I don't live there anymore. When you are left in the dust by the likes of Indianapolis, Orlando, San Antonio, Salt Lake City and Portland, doesn't say much at all about your polity.

Danny Ocean · Nov 30, 2005

It will suck to lose the kings but this city is still growing like a freakin weed. Youve got condo towers planned like crazy and whether we want to admit it or not, its those huge high end condo/hotel towers that are gonna invigorate this city. It happened in San Diego and it will happen here. Kings or no kings. This completely sucks.

kennadog · Nov 30, 2005

Danny Ocean said:

Not just public funds, but any public funds? It was never proposed to be 100% publicly financed.

And its pretty obvious most voters have no clue how many millions in public dollars or concessions (usually giving up revenue) are spent to attract and keep other businesses here (that don't contribute nearly as much, or any, charity in the region as the Maloofs and Kings). Hyatt, Embassy Suites and Sheraton all received big public benefits, to mention 3. And Hyatt had guaranteed operating subsidies, too. Do people think they couldn't afford to build their own hotels? I guess the thinking is Kings fans = local money that would be spent in Sac anyway, while hotels are out-of-towners. (But tourists want things to do in Sac besides visit Sutter's Fort and the Capitol.

)

Bricklayer · Nov 30, 2005

Danny Ocean said:

San Diego is a beautiful city sitting on the coast. Sacramento...has never had much going for it. Lucked out to have the state capital placed in it. Otherwise, a flat line -- a way point between more interesting locales to the east and west. The once and apparently future butt of jokes, amongst those who bother to care it exists at all.

kennadog · Nov 30, 2005

Building high end condos or other housing are NOT going to invigorate Sacramento. People with spending money want to live in a place that has cultural, social, and entertainment amenities. With the Kings AND no viable arena to attract big events, Sacramento will be sorely lacking in that department. The City can't even maintain Memorial Auditorium decently (which is no whoop-de-doo as a venue).

EDIT: You're right Brick, not an especially beautiful location and the weather in San Diego is a tad nicer.

) Sacramento was always just a place on the way to somewhere nicer...San Francisco or the Sierras or Napa-Sonoma. I love Sacramento, but let's get real here.

BigWaxer · Nov 30, 2005

I don't think many here care if the team leaves or not. The way this entire thing has been handled by the Maloofs and City council has turned most people off.

Oh and the city will not crumble if the Kings leave. This region will continue to thrive... and we are already the butt of sports jokes whats a few more cowbell jokes?

R.I.P Sacramento Kings 1985-2007

love_them_kings · Nov 30, 2005

BigWaxer said:

I think people underestimate the effect the Kings leaving will have on Sac. Never mind just not having a professional basketball team, think of all the events this area will not attract as Arco becomes more & more obsolete. Honestly, no concerts, no big events, no nothing. Without the Kings we won't have to worry about cowbell jokes, cause Sac can fall right off the map for most sports fans.

I think that people should take a look at what happened in Kansas City. They let the Kings leave because they didn't want to buy an arena & then turned around and built a brand new arena hoping to get a team. If that isn't a case of "Don't know what you've got until it's gone" then I don't know what is. You'd think Sac could learn by their example, but damn, we seemed determined to make our own huge mistakes....

G_M · Nov 30, 2005

BigWaxer said:

That's why this whole thing is crazy. The Sacramento Metropolitan Area is one of the fastest growing areas in the country. Lincoln and Roseville were recently acknowledged as two of the fastest growing cities in the whole freakin country.

The market is ripe!! We just need the City Council of Sacramento not to blow up the clown.

BMiller52 · Nov 30, 2005

BigWaxer said:

Why wouldn't the city crumble w/o the kings? Without a basketball team close by it'd suck

BigWaxer · Nov 30, 2005

KC has thrived in recent years and they do not have the Kings... YET. I don't think its as much as them missing the Kings but the city has grown and want to dable in getting another NBA/NHL team.

BUT the Arena in KC is also a good model on what the City of Sacramento should do. I do not support a general TAX increase but would support an increase on hotels/ticket prices and car rentals like KC has. Also the arena IMO makes more sense to be downtown. It would produce major economic benefits to the downtown area. Why the city does not see this I don't know.

Of course the downtown plan will not happen because we have crappy leaders. Well I wouldn't call them leaders that may be going a little to far.

I will settle for Natomas only because the Kings would stay but the benefits would be better realized with a downtown arena. Either way I am happy as long as the Kings stay but if tax payer money is to be used they may as well do it right and put it downtown.

The Hammer · Nov 30, 2005

Wow.

Hi all, I'd like to offer my perspective on this whole thing. A little history...

I'm 29 years old and I lived in Sacramento till I was 18. I played just about every sport imaginable as a kid. Let me tell you from my perspective what it was like before the Kings were here, and then when they got here. You may think that I was too young to remember, but I have a very good memory and I was a huge sports fan as a kid, so I remember it all. In the years before the Kings we were dying to get our own sports team. The town's identity was never fully separated from bay area because we always had to root for their teams. I have many vivid memories. Then the Kings came. It was like we were saved. That's why there is/was such borderline religious fanatacism around the Kings. But from what I'm hearing, perhaps that has waned. From what I can tell, there has been no single event more galvanizing to the people of the town since. Even when they were losers, everyone talked about them.

So what do people see as the real blocks to the new arena? Who doesn't want it to happen and why? Are people just too cheap? Are they clinging onto their small town identity? I think at a certain point, you can't grow as a city without a major events center anyway, which usually also spells pro sports franchise. Maybe the growing pains are just too tough and Sacramento wants to stay on the proverbial nipple. It kind of reminds me of those movies where a savvy big-towner, with a bigger mind comes to a small town and all the people get scared cause the mere presence of the new guy is threatening: it means they might have to change their ways. They end up kicking the guy out of town. That guy is the Maloofs.

It would be a sad and ironic fate if they end up leaving. I look forward to getting the news through KF.com. You're my only source!

kennadog · Nov 30, 2005

BigWaxer said:

Apparently the business community does not like that idea much.

Danny Ocean · Nov 30, 2005

The new Towers on the capital mall ARE what is gonna change this town. Not the kings. Each tower is gonna be 53 stories high and they are gonna be beautiful. My friend bought one before they sold out. The second tower is gonna be half condos and half hotel. 5 star hotel that is. The street level is gonna be high end restaurants. This project is the anchor to massive change for sacramento. Another high end condo project (35 stories) and many smaller projects. After many years of fighting with 1 guy who owned a fair share of Kst mall the city has finally wrestled it away from him and the bidding has FINALLY begun to build nightclubs, bars, and restaurants. All this had nothing to do with the kings. It will suck to lose the kings but it will not be the end of the world.

I feel that it is a lie when the kings are given so much damn credit for improving our way of life. - the sports exposure what have the kings done to better our way of life? This is still the same sleepy town the kings invaded in 1985. They have done crap that I can see. Other than a few exciting years as of late. These condos are bringing the restaurants and clubs that my friends and I want to come here. The condo builders are doing a helluva lot more for this town than the maloofs.

kennadog · Nov 30, 2005

And just how much have they provided in charity? How many improvements for poor neighborhood centers, shelters, cathedral repairs, on and on have these builders provided? Give me a break. They are here for the money, period. The Maloofs and the Kings have contributed a lot of money and countless hours of volunteer charitable work to this community.

I've lived in the region since 1967. Believe me, the Kings made a huge difference in getting the name of this City spread to remote corners of the world. I would be very happy to see K Street finally redeveloped, as long as its more succesful than the prior "redevelopments." Doing redevelopment downtown does not exclude trying to keep the Kings and get a new arena. Many cities have combined both. And big events cannot perform in little clubs. Both would be nice.

LPKingsFan · Nov 30, 2005

Danny Ocean said:

The new Towers on the capital mall ARE what is gonna change this town. Not the kings. Each tower is gonna be 53 stories high and they are gonna be beautiful. My friend bought one before they sold out. The second tower is gonna be half condos and half hotel. 5 star hotel that is. The street level is gonna be high end restaurants. This project is the anchor to massive change for sacramento. Another high end condo project (35 stories) and many smaller projects. After many years of fighting with 1 guy who owned a fair share of Kst mall the city has finally wrestled it away from him and the bidding has FINALLY begun to build nightclubs, bars, and restaurants. All this had nothing to do with the kings. It will suck to lose the kings but it will not be the end of the world.

I feel that it is a lie when the kings are given so much damn credit for improving our way of life. - the sports exposure what have the kings done to better our way of life? This is still the same sleepy town the kings invaded in 1985. They have done crap that I can see. Other than a few exciting years as of late. These condos are bringing the restaurants and clubs that my friends and I want to come here. The condo builders are doing a helluva lot more for this town than the maloofs.

I can tell you are excited about a revitalization of downtown Sacramento. It sounds nice. But a downtown arena would be the icing on the cake, don't you think?

Bricklayer · Nov 30, 2005

The market for high end condos in sleepy dead end tows is suprisingly soft. It all plays together.

love_them_kings · Nov 30, 2005

Bricklayer said:

seriously. at this rate the market value of those condos may decrease before people can move in. people want Sac to be more of a major city, well, guess what, cities usually can support a sports team.

The Hammer · Nov 30, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Brick I love your eye for hypocrasy.

Let me ask you this directly:

What do you think is preventing a downtown arena from happening, or a new arena anywhere?

Danny Ocean · Nov 30, 2005

Brick,
The twin 53 story towers are the hottest thing on the market right now. If you didnt have your name on the list and were pre-approved months ago then you didnt have a chance to get the smallest condo in either building. I wouldnt call that kind of market soft. The same goes for the other buildings going up. This city is gonna grow with or without the kings. I would rather it be with though.

G_M · Nov 30, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Brick,

I think you need to separate the collective failure of the local politicians to get an arena deal done from the fact that Sacramento is a growing(and quite rapidly) city.

The reality is that many people in this region see no nexus between having an arena or a pro sports team and the quality of life. I can assure you that 20 miles east of Sacramento they can't build $600.000 tract homes fast enough to accomodate the refugees from the Bay Area and Southern California.

The main problem lies IMO almost entirely with the lack of leadership shown by the City Council and HORRIBLE almost non-existent PR on the part of the Maloofs.

kingsfan916 · Nov 30, 2005

SkinnerBox said:

Yes it would truly suck to lose them

VF21 · Nov 30, 2005

Damn, Sacramento. WAKE UP!

Okay, it's time for some bare bones talk.

It's time for Sacramento to get off its puny little posterior, quit worrying about whether the city should formally establish a new nickname to better suit the area than "River City" and do something about getting an arena deal in place.

For far too long, the City Council has dilly-dallied and a good number of writers for the local rag, the Sacramento Bee, made it their personal mission to abuse and malign the Maloof Brothers. Well, it's done a lot of good. A lot of the community either doesn't understand the situation or thinks the Maloofs are money-grubbing "billionaire" team owners, trying to get fat off the backs of the Sacramento taxpayers.

BULL!

I lived in Sacramento for over 40 years. I now live two hours away but Sacramento will always be "home" in my heart. And right now, my heart is breaking because "home" is acting more like Toontown than the place I have loved most of my life.

What is wrong with people? It's NOT just about the Kings, although a number of people would like you to think it is. It's about Sacramento - and the image it gives to the rest of the world. Sacramento, the capital of California... the seat of government for the 5th largest economy in the world... can't get a deal together to build a new arena for the community?

Perhaps the problem is in calling it an "arena." Maybe they should try and find a new name for it. Perhaps "Community Activity Center" might work to make it a little easier for people to understand what's at stake. Maybe they should call it "Sacramento Intergalactic Arts Center." Maybe they should call it "Fargo's Folly." I don't care what they call it, but they need to get IT done.

This is ridiculous. In fact, it's beyond ridiculous. It's time for people to call their county supervisors or city councilmembers and tell them to get off their posteriors and do something to get a deal in place. And, after you're done, call them again! It's not just about the Kings. It's about Sacramento - and it's about each and every one of us who either calls the area home or at least calls it home in our hearts.

Just in passing - thanks for nothing, Sacramento Bee. R.E. Graswich, Marcos Breton and numerous others have sullied the name of the Maloofs and the team so often, it's no wonder people don't know what to beleive. And now, hidden in a column, Breton admits he was wrong? Gee, how wonderful of you, Marcos. I'd like to see you take out a full-page ad in ALL the local papers, admitting your error. I'd like to see it, but I'm not holding my breath.

If the Sacramento Bee, as evidenced by Breton, is now having second thoughts about their ceaseless attacks on the Maloofs, their motives, etc. then I can only hope to see as many PRO-Kings articles in the future as there have been anti-Kings articles in the past. As they say, hope springs eternal.

I just hope it's not too late...
-------------------------------------------
Sorry, but I just had to vent.

GoGoGadget · Nov 30, 2005

ForlornKing said:

bbb said:

For the love of all things good and holy.

Firstly, if Sacramento lets the Kings walk away, why would the powers that be want to send another team here?

Secondly, if Sacramento can't do what's necessary to get an arena for the Kings, where would this phantom team play?

Thirdly, IF Sacramento somehow lucked its way into a second chance as an NBA city and IF Sacramento found something other than an empty pasture for this team to play in/on, WHY would that be better or more exciting than having a beloved, established, good team??

For high draft picks????

I'm going to tell myself that this excange was missing sarcasm smilies. That's the only way it will even remotely make sense.

GoGoGadget · Nov 30, 2005

Danny Ocean said:

If there's no Kings, Sacramento is back to being podunk. Officially. Who's going to live in the high end condos once this city has even less going for it than it does now?

Jazz Jubilee may be fun, but probably not a big pull for the high-end-condo set.

GoGoGadget · Nov 30, 2005

G_M said:

I can assure you, as someone who works in real estate and property management, that this won't last forever.

Here in Stockton, there is TONS of growth happening -- new homes, new communities, expansion ever closer to Lodi, new arena and two new pro teams -- looks great on the surface. However, the Bay Area transplants that were commuting a couple years ago are leaving. Big time. Now we're stuck with management of $600,000 homes that owners don't want to live in anymore and that renters can't afford to rent. As great as the housing market is going in the rest of California, it is grinding to a major hault here, with renters and with buyers. Its getting harder and harder to find qualified renters, its getting harder to find qualified buyers, its getting harder to find ANYONE willing and able to pay the current prices. Our number of evictions has already increased recently. With all of the negative amortization loans and completely upside-down financing, foreclosures won't be far behind. The area is on the verge of, I think, a major housing glut.

Why? Because, regardless of the new growth and the "downtown renaissance," Stockton is still just Stockton.

And without the Kings, Sacramento is Stockton with the Governator. Nothing more.

VF21 · Nov 30, 2005

GoGoGadget said:

Sacramento has one more river.

GoGoGadget · Nov 30, 2005

VF21 said:

Well, Stockton opened up a hole downtown to get to the channel and now we have a "waterfront."

Still has rats, though.

treewoman · Nov 30, 2005

G_M said:

I think the growth in this whole area is critical... and could be a key factor in either rebuilding Arco or a new arena if there was a unified funding between counties or if Placer County is willing to handle it on it's own. I think the Thunder Valley idea is not a bad shot either. There is a lot of land out there still... Hwy 65 is getting more and more developed and if Arco can't be rebuilt then I think this is a prime area to consider (not to mention it's closer to home)

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