Another Arena proposal

S

SoupNazi

Guest
#1
Maybe this one will finally stick...

Sac Bee just posted this online:

http//www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/13916860p-14755073c.html

Tsakopoulos hands Kings new development-for-arena plan
By Mary Lynne Vellinga, Terri Hardy and R.E. Graswich -- Bee Staff Writers
Published 9:49 pm PST Tuesday, November 29, 2005
Local developer Angelo K. Tsakopoulos has submitted a new proposal to the Sacramento Kings that would involve rezoning agricultural land for development and using the profits to build an arena for the basketball team.
An earlier plan by Tsakopoulos to open up thousands of acres of North Natomas to development and use 20 percent of the profits for an arena fell apart in February after several landowners said they would not participate.


Neither Tsakopoulos nor the Maloofs, owners of the Kings, would discuss Tuesday the details of the latest written proposal, or say exactly what portion of Tsakopoulos' extensive land holdings would be targeted for development.
"It's basically a deal similar to the one we talked about in North Natomas," Tsakopoulos said. "Some property has to be sold to raise the money for the arena."

Joe Maloof said the owners received the written proposal shortly before the Thanksgiving weekend. He said they need more time to evaluate the plan, but added, "There's an opportunity here."

Tsakopoulos did not sound optimistic on Tuesday, however. "We want the Kings to stay, and we want to do whatever we can to make that happen," he said. "I don't know what's going to happen, but I have to say, I don't think the chances are very good."

For months, Tsakopoulos has been talking to public officials and civic leaders about the idea of developing large tracts of rolling ranch land he owns on both sides of the El Dorado and Sacramento County lines, and paying for an arena with the proceeds.

Neither Tsakopoulos nor the Maloofs would specify which parcels were included, but people who have been briefed on Tsakopoulos' idea say it involves farmland that would have to be rezoned.

Tsakopoulos has large land holdings outside Sacramento County's urban growth boundary and outside any area contemplated for growth in the new El Dorado County general plan.

Public officials and planners in both counties said they didn't think the rezoning proposals would be an easy sell with the public, or could be accomplished in the rapid timeline needed to fund an arena.

The area lacks drinking water and major roads. Environmental groups have been working for years to establish southeastern Sacramento County as a permanent ranching corridor.

"That's an area that's been reserved for agricultural uses," said Peter Maurer, El Dorado County's director of planning services. "We've just completed a 12-year process of adopting a new general plan, and now we're going to change it to build a new Kings arena? It doesn't make sense."

Sacramento County Supervisor Don Nottoli, who represents the area, noted that it isn't designated for growth in Sacramento County's general plan. He said he doesn't think there's been a big shift in board sentiment since 1999, when the supervisors rejected a plan by developer C.C. Myers to build a gated senior community in the same vicinity.

Myers took his Deer Creek Hills proposal to the ballot, where it was rejected by 69 percent of voters despite his spending more than $2 million to promote it. The area has since been preserved as open space by the Sacramento Valley Conservancy.

"The people were pretty clear," Nottoli said.

If the Tsakopoulos funding proposal doesn't succeed, however, it's unclear where the Maloofs will turn to get the $400 million or so that they have said they need to replace Arco Arena, which they say is outmoded and undersized.

Local political consultants frequently cite polling data suggesting that Sacramento-area residents are unwilling to spend public money in order to fund professional sports facilities.

"There are people who have approached Gavin and me with ideas; a couple of them have merit," Maloof said. He offered no more specifics, however.

Tsakopoulos said the community has to decide if it wants the Kings to stay.

Previous arena discussions at Sacramento City Hall went nowhere. Mayor Heather Fargo twice tried and failed to advance plans to build a new arena downtown - either in the old Union Pacific railyard or at the end of Downtown Plaza. Both times, discussions fell apart over financing.

Maloof said Tuesday that his family still has no plans to move the Kings to another city, despite the rumor of a possible departure to Anaheim.

"We're going to stay focused and try to work something out," he said.

If the Maloofs did decide to leave town, they have no contractual obligations to the city that would tie them here, said city Treasurer Tom Friery.

In 1997, former Kings owner Jim Thomas in two separate loans borrowed more than $82 million from the city to keep the team afloat. The deal included an escape clause that obligated the team to stay in the city for 10 years, unless revenues and attendance slipped by certain amounts outlined in the contract.

During a player lockout in the 1998-99 season, the Kings lost money and met provisions outlined in the escape clause. It happened again in 2001, Friery said.

Although the team's financial fortunes turned around in following years, Friery said the team still would be able to exercise the escape clause.

"The Kings could give us notice, pay off the remainder of their loan and leave now," Friery said.

Friery said the Kings have given no such notice. If the Maloofs were to leave, they would be obligated to pay off their loan from the city. Friery estimated the balance at between $70 million and $72 million.

Watching developments in Sacramento will be Anaheim businessman Michael Schulman, the chairman of the board of Anaheim Arena Management, the private company that manages Anaheim's Arrowhead Pond Arena for the city under a long-term contract.

Schulman is also chief executive officer of the Anaheim Mighty Ducks National Hockey League franchise, which plays all its home games at the arena.

The arena and hockey team are both owned by Henry Samueli, the billionaire co-founder of wireless equipment maker Broadcom Corp.

Schulman declined to comment on possible meetings between members of the Maloof and Samueli families, saying: "I'm not going to answer that."

"My understanding is that their (the Maloofs') goal is to get a new arena in Sacramento and that if they don't get it, they will move," Schulman said.

"If the team wants to come here, the door is wide open," Schulman added.

"We're an arena that doesn't have a basketball team and we want one," Schulman said. "Our door is open to any team that wants to move here. And we don't have the corporate suite problem that Sacramento has - we have 82 suites."
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#2
SoupNazi said:
"We're an arena that doesn't have a basketball team and we want one," Schulman said. "Our door is open to any team that wants to move here. And we don't have the corporate suite problem that Sacramento has - we have 82 suites."
that, ladies and gentleman, is what it all boils down to. arco arena is small and "outmoded," but so what? its a serviceable arena that houses a professional mens and womens basketball team. it also hosts events of rather substantial magnitude (coldplay on january 30th!!!), but there aren't "enough" luxury suites. geez....
 
#3
As reported in the Sacramento Bee, there are events already passing Arco by, because it is inadequate. It just plain can't handle certain events. And it isn't going to get any better. And the arena isn't owned by the City, it's owed by the Maloofs. If they leave, who is going to spend any money to try and just keep up with the ever-mounting repairs on that piece of c**p arena? The City can't even keep Memorial Auditorium in decent shape.

The new arena is not going to have 82 luxury suites, because Sacramento can't support that many. Estimates for a new arena are more in line with other small market arenas (about 40 suites). Personally, I wish their was more corporate dollars here. Charge a lot for those luxury suites and you don't have to charge as much for the regular seats.

This subject just depresses me. There are a lot of good entertainment events that can come to a City with decent facilities. Apparently Sacramentans would rather go back 30-40 years and drive to the bay area to see anything. (yeah, like that's cheap.:rolleyes: )
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#4
Sacramentans are coming pretty close to putting coal in their own stockings on this one. Its just amazing to think they may actually lose their team.

I do respect the Maloofs for hanging in there and still trying, but I get the feeling they are losing hope now. Heck, I was born in Sacto, but if I'd been trying for 5 years and had made no progress + amazingly had no public support I myself would have Kansas City, Anaheim etc. on speed dial. And one serious case of the holiday blues might make me just say screw it and pick up the phone.
 
#5
I've said this before. The PR regarding theses arena deals has been HORRIBLE!!

The only way this thing is going to fly is convincing people that a new arena is not solely about the Kings. Do you want to see U2, Disney on Ice, Monster Truck Pulls, NCAA Tournament, and many other events??? Arco has a shelf life and there are only four older arenas in the entire league. Of those four arena's I believe that Madison Square Garden and the Bradley Center were renovated.

The city/county/region needs a NEW arena! As long long as the Bee and other mainstweam media sources makes this a "handout" for the "BILLIONAIRE" Maloof family it's not going to work!!!

My thought is that Thunder Valley Casino which is the 2nd or 3rd most profitable casino in the country can step in and provide some funding.

Thunder Valley Arena-----anyone??
 
#6
Losing the Kings would be horrible for Sacramento. It would definitely be a step backwards. Besides being the state capital, the kings are about the only thing that puts us on the map. You think we have commerce problems now....
 
#7
G_M said:
The city/county/region needs a NEW arena! As long long as the Bee and other mainstweam media sources makes this a "handout" for the "BILLIONAIRE" Maloof family it's not going to work!!!
Does Elmer Fudd work for the "mainstweam" media?? ;)
 
#8
Thunder Valley would like to help, but they couldn't figure out a way the tribe would be repaid. At least that was the last I heard. I hate to say it, but I am finally admitting to myself that we are going to lose the Kings. We aren't even on the same planet as a potential deal at this point. Even if a deal was partly there, it would take a few years to actually accomplish construction of a new arena.

I'm just embarrassed that Sacramento can't figure out a way to help get this done. If the Maloofs leave, we'll have a decrepit arena to replace and exactly zero Maloof dollars to build a new one. So we lose a multi-million dollar investment in the community from a business. A business that has contributed greatly to the community I might add, both financially and in terms of good will around the world. Believe me, most people in the USA didn't know where Sacramento was before the Kings, let alone most of the rest of the world.
 
#9
kennadog said:
Thunder Valley would like to help, but they couldn't figure out a way the tribe would be repaid. At least that was the last I heard. I hate to say it, but I am finally admitting to myself that we are going to lose the Kings. We aren't even on the same planet as a potential deal at this point. Even if a deal was partly there, it would take a few years to actually accomplish construction of a new arena.

I'm just embarrassed that Sacramento can't figure out a way to help get this done. If the Maloofs leave, we'll have a decrepit arena to replace and exactly zero Maloof dollars to build a new one. So we lose a multi-million dollar investment in the community from a business. A business that has contributed greatly to the community I might add, both financially and in terms of good will around the world. Believe me, most people in the USA didn't know where Sacramento was before the Kings, let alone most of the rest of the world.
Well said, kdog. Agree completely. All we'll have left is our *deserved* cow bells to ring.
 
#12
The Tsakopoulos proposal won't fly. The environmental groups will file law suits and delay any decision for many years. They have time on their side and the short clock is ticking on the Kings. Consider this one DOA.
 
#13
By Ailene Voisin -- Bee Sports Columnist
Published 2:15 am PST Wednesday, November 30, 2005
Story appeared in Sports section, Page C1
Get the latest news in sacbee.com's Kings Alert newsletter. Sign up here.

Full-blown panic. That's what this was. Several of the folks intimately involved with the "New Arena" saga worked themselves into a frenzy late Monday, convinced Kings co-owners Joe and Gavin Maloof were within hours of filing relocation papers (think Anaheim) with the NBA.

They were wrong - for the moment.

They were right to fret, though.

"Any reports of anyone talking about an application (for relocation) are categorically untrue," an exasperated NBA Commissioner David Stern said from his office Tuesday. "There is nothing going on. But the question is still whether this deal is going to get done."

In other words, if there is no new arena, there will be no more Kings. The ancient beast known as Arco Arena will become virtually uninhabited.

Such is the reality of professional sports in America, where state-of-the-art facilities dot the national landscape, enabling cities to compete for everything from concerts and cultural offerings to rodeos and sporting events. For the league's smaller markets - most lacking a substantial corporate base - the revenue generated by in-arena sources (club suites, luxury boxes) that are available in new buildings are essential to paying the bills. The league's little guy survives only on grit and guile, on instinct and fan loyalty, on dynamic leadership on all sides of the bargaining table.

Yet four weeks after both Maloofs expressed optimism about a potential agreement, the mood has taken a dramatic turn for the worse. Common cause has been infected by the common cold. Everyone is maintaining a distance, with mistrust and miscommunication once again emerging as an impediment to any future partnership.

Compounding matters is this: the one player regarded with utmost respect - minority owner Bob Hernreich, who last year was appointed the Kings' point person by Stern - has been strong-armed aside for reasons that remain unclear. In his stead stands Kings president John Thomas, a slick operator who has a knack for cutting TV deals but completely lacks the personal skills to facilitate an agreement of this magnitude.

All of which leaves the area's only major professional sports franchise in peril, leading to rumors and innuendo about intent and integrity (is someone getting duped here?), about the might and muscle of those who are supposed to matter (is there a will to find the way?), and perhaps most troubling, about the ongoing void in leadership.

Mayor Heather Fargo? Where are you?

Joe Maloof? Where have you been? Your frequent absences from home games - not to mention the area's restaurants - have been repeatedly and perplexingly noted. You have spent enough time around Hollywood to realize that no one successfully directs a film from afar. And you certainly can't foster the necessary level of trust with combative developer Angelo Tsakopoulos if you aren't willing to meet a potential deal-maker in the middle of the ring.

"I haven't been around the community like I should have been," Joe Maloof acknowledged Tuesday. "Gavin and I will become more active in the negotiations. We have always been determined to get something done. No, no, we are not filing any papers. I don't know where that got started. We've had peaks and valleys, but we're trying to work something out. And we know Angelo is working hard, too."

Interestingly, it is Tsakopoulos, the oft-maligned developer who was approached 16 months ago by a group of local businessmen and politicians attempting to salvage negotiations following a disastrous City Council meeting chaired by retiring City Manager Bob Thomas, who has provided the most persistent presence. Pressed by family members (diehard Kings fans all) and alluding to his own mortality, the native of Greece repeatedly has spoken of solidifying the franchise here as a part of his legacy.

Meantime, the standoff continues, gaining a momentum that threatens to lead the Kings out the door. The Kings and the return of their ineffective negotiator (John Thomas). The city/county and its silent (and alleged) leadership. The developers and their complicated and controversial land-use issues.

So how long before speculation becomes reality? Until frustration overwhelms determination? And please, tell me again why other owners and all these other cities (Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Memphis, San Antonio, Charlotte, etc.) can overcome their own unique obstacles and construct facilities, while Sacramento can't even sniff a blueprint?

Maybe the incoming city manager has a plan.

Maybe, he has a solution.

It's time to break ground.
 
#15
The LA Clippers, The LA Lakers, and the Anaheim Kings?? Isn't that a bit over kill for the area?? Anaheim in front of ANY sports team name just has no ring to it.
 
#16
The California economy is almost roaring. If Sacramento can't get it done now, there is no hope. The State government is basically bankrupt, so no help there. I am not sure how much the State's red ink hurts our chances of finding investors in Sacramento.

The Maloofs were reportedly (Tom Sullivan's radio show today) interviewed by USA Today in Las Vegas and were supposedly very excited about the prospect of Las Vegas having an NBA team.

I suspect that you all know this already.
 
Last edited:
#17
DocHolliday said:
The LA Clippers, The LA Lakers, and the Anaheim Kings?? Isn't that a bit over kill for the area?? Anaheim in front of ANY sports team name just has no ring to it.
They would be the Los Angeles Kings of Anaheim or perhaps the Mighty Kings of Anaheim of Orange County just south of Los Angeles.
 
#18
It seems to me that the project would have a much better chance if it were done in an adjacent county, perhaps El Dorado or Placer. I think in terms of development those outlying counties seem to get things done a little easier. There's a reason the Rivercats stadium was built in West Sacramento(Yolo County) and not Sacramento.

The city council of Sacramento has shown ZERO, ZILCH, NADA ability to not only NOT get this done but they can't even get any constructive dialogue going. Initially I thought a Downtown arena would happen due to the redevelopment drives but I just don't see it happeneing in Sacramento.
 
#19
How many serious Kings fans are there in the greater Sacramento region? Maybe 35,000? There are also thousands of casual (watch the game if it’s on the television while I am talking to the drunk next to me) types.

The franchise supposedly needs a cool $350,000,000 to build a "proper" sports arena in Sacramento. The community of Green Bay, Wisconsin owns the Packers. So, if local Kings fans were to collectively front the financial burden of a new arena construction project, each serious fan would have to come up with $10,000. That would be $20,000 or $30,000 per household? Every loyal fan on tap for $10,000! Obviously, most Sacramento fans don’t have $10,000 to invest in a community sports arena. I am afraid that most of the other million people living in the greater Sacramento region want no part of the Kings or a new arena, at least not if they have to pay for it. :(

The point of my post is to show that $350 million dollars is a mind-boggling amount of money, at least in the frame of reference of regular people. :eek:
 
#20
quick dog said:
How many serious Kings fans are there in the greater Sacramento region? Maybe 35,000? There are also thousands of casual (watch the game if it’s on the television while I am talking to the drunk next to me) types.

The franchise supposedly needs a cool $350,000,000 to build a "proper" sports arena in Sacramento. The community of Green Bay, Wisconsin owns the Packers. So, if local Kings fans were to collectively front the financial burden of a new arena construction project, each serious fan would have to come up with $10,000. That would be $20,000 or $30,000 per household? Every loyal fan on tap for $10,000! Obviously, most Sacramento fans don’t have $10,000 to invest in a community sports arena. I am afraid that most of the other million people living in the greater Sacramento region want no part of the Kings or a new arena, at least not if they have to pay for it. :(

The point of my post is to show that $350 million dollars is a mind-boggling amount of money, at least in the frame of reference of regular people. :eek:

And it wouldn't be that bad if you just take a few dollars from EVERYBODY in norcal. Raise Taxes or something!
 
#21
I don't post much, just browse almost every day

I do have a question, though. If most (or all?) of the money for a new arena was to be paid by taxpayers, what would be the cost per taxpayer. I realize that might be hard to answer but people's opinions might change if the dollar amound per person is lower than expected. Would this tax apply to the county of Sacramento or just the city (i.e. if the new arena was placed "downtown" or within city limits, would the tax only apply to those living in Sacramento???).

Any answers would be appreciated.
 
#23
Bricklayer said:
Sacramentans are coming pretty close to putting coal in their own stockings on this one. Its just amazing to think they may actually lose their team.

I do respect the Maloofs for hanging in there and still trying, but I get the feeling they are losing hope now. Heck, I was born in Sacto, but if I'd been trying for 5 years and had made no progress + amazingly had no public support I myself would have Kansas City, Anaheim etc. on speed dial. And one serious case of the holiday blues might make me just say screw it and pick up the phone.
It would be terrible for Sacramento to lost the Kings. They mean so much to that city.

But hey, why not let them come to Kansas City, I live there!!:p
 
#24
ForlornKing said:
So!!! Sacramento looses The Kings!

Sac gets an expansion team and we get very high draft picks!!!

YES!
Would be great, but we would still have to get a new arena to get an expansion team
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#25
ForlornKing said:
So!!! Sacramento looses The Kings!

Sac gets an expansion team and we get very high draft picks!!!

YES!
oh good lord.

The irony and stupidity of this whole situation is the only wya Sacramento EVER gets to have a professional team in ANY sport again is by building them a stadium anyway. And if there is no pro sports team in town, any new stadium meant to ATTRACT a pro sports team is going to be paid for 100% by the taxpayers. There is no "major league team and no stadium" option, now or ever.
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
#27
At what point does everyone realize that losing the Kings due to no arena deal also means that, effectively, we lose the best venue in the area for all kinds of events, including the circus, concerts, monster trucks, etc. Say bye-bye to these events in Sacramento.....

The arena is for the community, not the Kings. They would just be the most prominent tenant. The arena would be owned by the city/community, not the Kings. The Sac City council are a bunch of idiots for not being able to help move this forward....
 
#28
Actually, no proposal yet has had the City owning the arena, anymore than they own the current arena. That is one of the things not worked out.
 
#29
bbb said:
I don't post much, just browse almost every day

I do have a question, though. If most (or all?) of the money for a new arena was to be paid by taxpayers, what would be the cost per taxpayer. I realize that might be hard to answer but people's opinions might change if the dollar amound per person is lower than expected. Would this tax apply to the county of Sacramento or just the city (i.e. if the new arena was placed "downtown" or within city limits, would the tax only apply to those living in Sacramento???).

Any answers would be appreciated.
It depends on whether the proponents of an arena bond could aggregate the local counties (Sacramento, Yolo, Placer, and El Dorado). I think San Joaquin, Nevada, and Amador are too far away. There may be less than two million people in those counties combined. Assuming that Sacramento County goes it alone, there are about a million people involved.

A regional bond would have to be issued, then paid back as an assessment on property tax, or a sales tax, or a surcharge. Any way you cut it, each taxpaying Sacramento family would be on the hook for at least a thousand dollars. I think that's a reasonable rough estimate, and that does not include interest payments. Let's say it would be a 20-year bond. I'll bet it would be at least $20 per month for 20 years per taxpaying household. Regardless of the verasity of my wild**s guess, it would be an organizational and political nightmare to accomplish.

It is probably Anthony Tsakopoulos or nothing. Even Tony implied that we are probably going to be looking for a new team to bring to Sacramento. Sad.:(
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#30
quick dog said:
It is probably Anthony Tsakopoulos or nothing. Even Tony implied that we are probably going to be looking for a new team to bring to Sacramento. Sad.:(
No we're not, because in order to bring that new teamn to Sacramento you would still have to suck it up and offer a bond.

Again, there is no "oh we'll lose the Kings and get somebody else cheaper" option. If anything, just the opposite, because the Kings are already in Sacto and willing to chip in to stay there. Any new team will have the pick of the litter of wan nabe cities across the nation, and a decrepit Arco offer, or offer for the team to come and finance their own arena just isn't competitive. If that's the best Sacto can do, then the area is going to be without a major league team, not just in a year or two, but permanently. Can go back to being a sad little suburb of the bay area cheering on teams representing other cities and regions.