and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

[nbrans]

Seriously? He has no moves to speak of. He often gets the ball and has no idea what to do with it. His hands are average at best. He doesn't box out. He's a very good shot blocker with good instincts there, but aside from that, gotta say I actually have a point.

He's not completely lost on offense. He has a pretty good 15 foot jump shot (which, if he refines it, no one is blocking), he's a good free throw shooter, he's extremely good catching an finishing alley-oops, and he's reasonably good at putbacks. He brings the ball down too much, but other than that he's perfectly respectable on offense for a defensive specialist. In fact, he's already better than Tyson Chandler in that regard.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

He is what he is. His ceiling is a defensive anchor who won't hurt you on offense. A valuable asset no doubt, but someone that should be taken in the top 3, even in a weak draft - i say no.

 

[AriesMar27]

Not only that, but our #13 ranked offense will only improve with a better defense. Good defense leads to good offense, not vice versa.

thats not true... if you make shots you can get back on defense and that limits fastbreak points. i guess what it boils down to is rebounding and we are 30th in the league in rebounding and 26th in opponent rebounding. thabeet could help in that category.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Something about Thabeet just tells me he isn't going to be very good, at least for the spot he is going to be picked at. He has Diop or Dampier written all over him in my mind. And honestly, I feel pretty comfortable with Hawes as our future C...he can ball and he is only 20. I still think we NEED a PG.

 

[nbrans]

Mills is currently chucking all sorts of garbage against SDSU. Some are going in. Lots aren't. Just really horrendous shots. 4-14 at the half.

 

[BMiller52]

OFFENSE DOES NOT MATTER!!!!!


Sorry, just had to get that out of my system.

How people can continue to talk about offense being the problem in a season when we have become the WORST, most embarrassing defensive disaster in the entire NBA is completely beyond me. Did you know that we are ABOVE AVERAGE in ppg? We average 100ppg, 13th in the league. On the other hand on defense we allow an absolutely ridiculous 108.4ppg, 29th in the league.

Here's something nifty:

Cleveland Cavaliers
Pts For: 100.2 (12th in league)
Record: 57-13

Sacramento Kings
Pts For: 100.0 (13th in league)
Record: 15-55


And do you know why? DEFENSE. It is all, entirely, and totally about the defense. Cleveland allows opponents to score 91ppg. We allow them to score 108ppg. 108!! We have to score 110 just to have a chance at victory! Even with defense we are not a great team. But we are not a walking embarrassment either. If we are picking #3 I will take Thabeet in a bleeping flash. We will never, ever, be anything or anyone until we dramatically, and I do mean DRAMATICALLY improve our defense. Nothing quite like a giant shotblocker to anchor it.

Yeah but we need perimeter d too. Right now the only guy on this team that plays decent perimeter defense is Nocioni. Garcia is erratic and gambles too much, Martin plays as much D as a chair, Beno is more stationary than a table, BJax is a fossil. I don't really think JT and Hawes have done such a poor job defensively, or on the boards, I think the main problem has been no perimeter D whatsoever.

 

[nbrans]

What a seriously terrible game by Patty Mills. Just took horrible, horrible, horrible shots. Seflish, stupid shots early in the shot clock. Other than a few outlet passes, wasn't really creating for others. Missed a clutch free throw in the last minute, then dribbled the ball out of bounds unforced when St. Mary's was wtihin 3. Shot 7-24. Honestly it was probably the worst performance I've seen by a point guard prospect all year.

I know by reputation that he can catch fire shooting, but I've really soured on this guy. St. Mary's was in this game despite Mills, not because of him. He struggles finishing around the hoop, his defense is just ok, and his decisionmaking is extremely poor. Not a fan.

Here's my PG ranking in this draft, with the caveat that I haven't seen Jennings and am not listing him:

1. Teague
2. Maynor
3. Collison
4. Curry
5. Flynn
6. Lawson
7. Mills

 

[hrdboild]

I haven't been a fan of Jrue Holiday as a lottery pick this season, but he's showing up near the end of the first round on mock drafts now with the consensus apparently that he will be in the draft this year regardless of how poorly his season ended. He obviously needs another year at least, but he's got a lot of talent and I have been impressed with his defense when I've seen him. I was a fan of Collison as a defensive-minded PG a couple years ago before he had two bad tournaments in a row. Jrue Holiday might be a good compromise as a guy who's a difference maker on D but also has enough size and strength to one day stick as a starting PG. I like him a lot better as a late first round pick anyway, and I'd prefer him over the plethora of under-sized combo-guards masquerading as PG prospects in the draft this year. (Teague, Maynor, Curry, et al)

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

What a seriously terrible game by Patty Mills. Just took horrible, horrible, horrible shots. Seflish, stupid shots early in the shot clock. Other than a few outlet passes, wasn't really creating for others. Missed a clutch free throw in the last minute, then dribbled the ball out of bounds unforced when St. Mary's was wtihin 3. Shot 7-24. Honestly it was probably the worst performance I've seen by a point guard prospect all year.

I know by reputation that he can catch fire shooting, but I've really soured on this guy. St. Mary's was in this game despite Mills, not because of him. He struggles finishing around the hoop, his defense is just ok, and his decisionmaking is extremely poor. Not a fan.

Here's my PG ranking in this draft, with the caveat that I haven't seen Jennings and am not listing him:

1. Teague
2. Maynor
3. Collison
4. Curry
5. Flynn
6. Lawson
7. Mills

is that assuming Rubio won't enter?

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

I haven't been a fan of Jrue Holiday as a lottery pick this season, but he's showing up near the end of the first round on mock drafts now with the consensus apparently that he will be in the draft this year regardless of how poorly his season ended. He obviously needs another year at least, but he's got a lot of talent and I have been impressed with his defense when I've seen him. I was a fan of Collison as a defensive-minded PG a couple years ago before he had two bad tournaments in a row. Jrue Holiday might be a good compromise as a guy who's a difference maker on D but also has enough size and strength to one day stick as a starting PG. I like him a lot better as a late first round pick anyway, and I'd prefer him over the plethora of under-sized combo-guards masquerading as PG prospects in the draft this year. (Teague, Maynor, Curry, et al)

Griffin/Holiday would be one sweet draft.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yeah but we need perimeter d too. Right now the only guy on this team that plays decent perimeter defense is Nocioni. Garcia is erratic and gambles too much, Martin plays as much D as a chair, Beno is more stationary than a table, BJax is a fossil. I don't really think JT and Hawes have done such a poor job defensively, or on the boards, I think the main problem has been no perimeter D whatsoever.

Oh absolutely -- there is not a single player in the entire history of basketball who could fix all our defensive woes all by himself. But the thing is that a great shotblocker can be the single most important piece to a defensive turnaround because he can cover up for so many of his teammates. You get a great perimeter defender, and great -- you can stop one of the other team's guys out there. But you get a great interior defender and he can not only limit his own man, but he's back there playing goalie helping to stop the men being guarded by all of his sad teammates. And you need to start somewhere -- you are going to need multiple defensive guys to ever get good, but you still need an anchor to get it started.

As for Hawes, well: a) he is averaging 1.2blks a game this season. 1.2. He has these good nights, but people miss the fact that overall his shotblocking numbers have begun to rather resemble Brad Miller's. I think he can help, but he's no anchor. And b) Hawes/Thompson/Thabeet flat out works as a frontcourt, maybe for a long time. That's a big young frontcourt with nearly every base covered -- you've got skilled inside/outside guy, hustle rebounding guy, big shotblocking guy. Youth aside, that's about as big and complete as you are going to get up front.

 

[nbrans]

is that assuming Rubio won't enter?

Yeah, I don't think he'll end up coming, but if he did, I'd put Rubio #2 behind Teague.

 

[BMiller52]

Oh absolutely -- there is not a single player in the entire history of basketball who could fix all our defensive woes all by himself. But the thing is that a great shotblocker can be the single most important piece to a defensive turnaround because he can cover up for so many of his teammates. You get a great perimeter defender, and great -- you can stop one of the other team's guys out there. But you get a great interior defender and he can not only limit his own man, but he's back there playing goalie helping to stop the men being guarded by all of his sad teammates. And you need to start somewhere -- you are going to need multiple defensive guys to ever get good, but you still need an anchor to get it started.

As for Hawes, well: a) he is averaging 1.2blks a game this season. 1.2. He has these good nights, but people miss the fact that overall his shotblocking numbers have begun to rather resemble Brad Miller's. I think he can help, but he's no anchor. And b) Hawes/Thompson/Thabeet flat out works as a frontcourt, maybe for a long time. That's a big young frontcourt with nearly every base covered -- you've got skilled inside/outside guy, hustle rebounding guy, big shotblocking guy. Youth aside, that's about as big and complete as you are going to get up front.

Yeah you're right, and I'm a huge fan of Thabeet. As a guy who watches Kansas Jayhawks a lot, I'm a huge fan of Cole Aldrich too and have been since last year even though he didn't play too much last year. You like him? He had a 13/20/10blk game the other day.

 

[steelevt]

What a seriously terrible game by Patty Mills. Just took horrible, horrible, horrible shots. Seflish, stupid shots early in the shot clock. Other than a few outlet passes, wasn't really creating for others. Missed a clutch free throw in the last minute, then dribbled the ball out of bounds unforced when St. Mary's was wtihin 3. Shot 7-24. Honestly it was probably the worst performance I've seen by a point guard prospect all year.

I know by reputation that he can catch fire shooting, but I've really soured on this guy. St. Mary's was in this game despite Mills, not because of him. He struggles finishing around the hoop, his defense is just ok, and his decisionmaking is extremely poor. Not a fan.

Here's my PG ranking in this draft, with the caveat that I haven't seen Jennings and am not listing him:

1. Teague
2. Maynor
3. Collison
4. Curry
5. Flynn
6. Lawson
7. Mills

i didnt get to see the game, but looked at the box score and saw that mills had a terrible shooting night and and 5 TO to go along with his 5 ast. obviously not a great night, but is this list based on mills' game tonight or overall? the davidson game i thought he played great and he wasn't that bad before his injury. teague has been fading and his last game he barely broke double digits in points and had 7 TOs but he is at the top of your list. im assuming he's there based on what you've seen before and his potential but i wouldnt feel comfortable taking him with our top pick. obviously mills isnt projected as the best pg in the draft and may not be better than teague, and i wouldnt want him to be picked with our top pick, but given that most of the top pgs will be gone by the rockets pick, i wouldnt mind getting him there.

 

[HighTopKicks]

Seriously? He has no moves to speak of. He often gets the ball and has no idea what to do with it. His hands are average at best. He doesn't box out. He's a very good shot blocker with good instincts there, but aside from that, gotta say I actually have a point.

Reading your post, I got the impression that you were talking about JT, until I got to the part about very good shot blocker.

Griffin doesn't have a lot of great face up moves either. Actually, how many underclassmen coming out of college had developed great offensive or defensive moves.

 

[nbrans]

i didnt get to see the game, but looked at the box score and saw that mills had a terrible shooting night and and 5 TO to go along with his 5 ast. obviously not a great night, but is this list based on mills' game tonight or overall? the davidson game i thought he played great and he wasn't that bad before his injury. teague has been fading and his last game he barely broke double digits in points and had 7 TOs but he is at the top of your list. im assuming he's there based on what you've seen before and his potential but i wouldnt feel comfortable taking him with our top pick. obviously mills isnt projected as the best pg in the draft and may not be better than teague, and i wouldnt want him to be picked with our top pick, but given that most of the top pgs will be gone by the rockets pick, i wouldnt mind getting him there.

I've seen Mills play three times now, and my concerns are 1) size, 2) decisionmaking, 3) shooting

And yeah, Teague was fading, mostly because he was missing shots. But Mills played an actively horrible game. He was missing shots because he was taking horrible shots, he was a black hole, and basically single-handedly lost the game for St. Mary's. I can't emphasize enough what a horrible game it was. It was almost embarrassing. It was more than just an off night or a bad streak.

Even when I've seen Mills on it's because his jumper has gone in and then he thinks he's on fire and just starts firing indiscriminately. This worked in the first half of the Gonzaga game, but otherwise he's extremely streaky. He doesn't have the size to finish inside, his midrange game is shaky, and I'm not impressed with his creativity.

I know he had a good game against USA in the Olympics, which I haven't seen. But other than that I'm not sure I see why anyone would be terribly excited about him.

 

[sidney]

Hawes/Thompson/Thabeet flat out works as a frontcourt, maybe for a long time. That's a big young frontcourt with nearly every base covered -- you've got skilled inside/outside guy, hustle rebounding guy, big shotblocking guy. Youth aside, that's about as big and complete as you are going to get up front.

That's the real draw to me in grabbing Thabeet. We'd have collected a very nice complimentary trio of lottery picks with strengths in every key area.

In 2 years when it starts mattering, we could compete with up and coming young front courts like in Portland, Minnesota and have Thabeet changing the inside game for the young PGs like Deron, Paul, and Rose.

Still think we could then try to use our 8M cap space to take on toxic assets and grab another lotto pick from a cash strapped team. Indiana is is major trouble...could take on Tinsley then switch our 20's pick for their #10ish pick or so and grab Teague if he's there for example. Could make a run for Sessions. Could try to grab the Wizards pick by taking some of their trash since they are desperate to get under the cap and already committed over it. Lots of possibilities.

In any case, come into next year with a complete PF/C trio, one of the top PG prospects, and a solid new coach hire. We'll still have warts but that's a solid base to work from.

 

[bajaden]

Yeah but we need perimeter d too. Right now the only guy on this team that plays decent perimeter defense is Nocioni. Garcia is erratic and gambles too much, Martin plays as much D as a chair, Beno is more stationary than a table, BJax is a fossil. I don't really think JT and Hawes have done such a poor job defensively, or on the boards, I think the main problem has been no perimeter D whatsoever.

In spanish the word for chair is Silla, pronounced ( see ya ). I think thats a pretty good description of our perimiter defense. Would a big intimidating shotblocker in the middle help? Yeah, right up until he fouled out of the game.

 

[bajaden]

What a seriously terrible game by Patty Mills. Just took horrible, horrible, horrible shots. Seflish, stupid shots early in the shot clock. Other than a few outlet passes, wasn't really creating for others. Missed a clutch free throw in the last minute, then dribbled the ball out of bounds unforced when St. Mary's was wtihin 3. Shot 7-24. Honestly it was probably the worst performance I've seen by a point guard prospect all year.

I know by reputation that he can catch fire shooting, but I've really soured on this guy. St. Mary's was in this game despite Mills, not because of him. He struggles finishing around the hoop, his defense is just ok, and his decisionmaking is extremely poor. Not a fan.

Here's my PG ranking in this draft, with the caveat that I haven't seen Jennings and am not listing him:

1. Teague
2. Maynor
3. Collison
4. Curry
5. Flynn
6. Lawson
7. Mills

Well good for you. You watch one game where Mills is not having his best night on the court, especially after coming off an injury to his shooting hand and where he has obvious rust and you dump on him. Lets just throw away everything he's done in his career up till now. He made some great passes in that game last night. Perhaps you were looking the other way when they happened.

 

[nbrans]

Well good for you. You watch one game where Mills is not having his best night on the court, especially after coming off an injury to his shooting hand and where he has obvious rust and you dump on him. Lets just throw away everything he's done in his career up till now. He made some great passes in that game last night. Perhaps you were looking the other way when they happened.

Uh, he's been back for six games. Rust should have been wearing off. And I'm sorry, that was not your run of the mill off night. The problem was with his brain. I haven't seen such horrendous shot selection in a game since... JWill's rookie season? How can you not acknowledge that? He was shooting NBA threes off the dribble with 25 seconds left on the shot clock. WTF was that? Everything was forced. He hit two threes in a row, thought he was on fire, and then looked only for his offense to the detriment of his team.

And I did mention that he made some good passes, but they were mainly outlet passes. In the half court he wasn't nearly as impressive.

I approached Mills with an open mind, and I was fairly complimentary after seeing him against Gonzaga. But this was soooooooooooo bad, in the worst ways possible. I can understand a bad shooting night. Absolutely killing your team every step of the way due to selfishness, taking abysmal shots, and choking away your team's last two opportunities is something else entirely.

Maybe this was just the absolute worst game of his entire life, in which case, okay, fine. You're allowed to stink up the Cox Center in the NIT. But man. If that game didn't give you a little bit of heebie jeebies about him I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Spike]

I've no dog in this fight, but I'd rather see a bad game from someone trying too hard when he probably didn't need to (which is what I got from Mills) vs. someone disappearing when the team needed him to step up (Teague) instead of thinking of his NBA 'future'. Basically, I saw one guy want it too much vs. another who didn't really care. Give me the guy who bleeds effort.

There's no slam dunk in this draft, nobody can predict the future. I've always been a Rubio guy, based on what this team needs, and nothing else. Thabeet would be appropriate for what Brick mentioned, but I think the team needs leadership more than anything. If we can finagle 2 picks in the top 10, I think both players can be had, but that's a pipe dream - I can't think of any team in recent history to do such a thing (read: I'm too lazy to do the research.)

 

[sidney]

If we can finagle 2 picks in the top 10, I think both players can be had, but that's a pipe dream - I can't think of any team in recent history to do such a thing (read: I'm too lazy to do the research.)

Portland did it in 2006 and got Aldridge and Roy in the top 10. It kickstarted their rebuilding effort. We need to do the same

 

[SacKings7]

Portland did it in 2006 and got Aldridge and Roy in the top 10. It kickstarted their rebuilding effort. We need to do the same

Yeah the Sonics/Thunder did it 2 years ago with Durant and Green too. That was actually 2 top 5 picks (2 and 5)

 

[kingzallday]

It would be sweet if we can steal the Wizards pick somehow and pick #1 and #2 overall......a guy can dream, cant he?

 

[Spike]

Well, lazy me. Thanks for the leg work.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Yeah the Sonics/Thunder did it 2 years ago with Durant and Green too. That was actually 2 top 5 picks (2 and 5)

They did have to trade away Ray Allen to do it, though. The only comparably-valued piece we have is Martin, and in this draft I really can't say I'd trade him away for anything less than Griffin/Rubio.

If we can get a high pick for taking a Luxury Tax hit off a team (as in some Wizards proposals here) I'd be interested. Alternately, if we could somehow turn either Nocioni or Garcia or Beno or even Greene into a high draft pick it would be worth considering, but I'm not sure how likely that is.

More likely we can package the Rockets pick to let a team that's not really interested in anybody at their slot get a player with a lower $$ commitment. Still, I don't imagine that could move us into the top ten. We'll see. If history's any guide, we'll stand pat.

 

[sidney]

They did have to trade away Ray Allen to do it, though. The only comparably-valued piece we have is Martin, and in this draft I really can't say I'd trade him away for anything less than Griffin/Rubio.

If we can get a high pick for taking a Luxury Tax hit off a team (as in some Wizards proposals here) I'd be interested. Alternately, if we could somehow turn either Nocioni or Garcia or Beno or even Greene into a high draft pick it would be worth considering, but I'm not sure how likely that is.

More likely we can package the Rockets pick to let a team that's not really interested in anybody at their slot get a player with a lower $$ commitment. Still, I don't imagine that could move us into the top ten. We'll see. If history's any guide, we'll stand pat.

Yeah, our assets to move up in this draft are:
8M cap space
Nocioni possibly to a contending veteran team in exchange for lesser players
KT's expiring in exchange for longer crappy contracts
Greene
future picks

 

[bajaden]

Uh, he's been back for six games. Rust should have been wearing off. And I'm sorry, that was not your run of the mill off night. The problem was with his brain. I haven't seen such horrendous shot selection in a game since... JWill's rookie season? How can you not acknowledge that? He was shooting NBA threes off the dribble with 25 seconds left on the shot clock. WTF was that? Everything was forced. He hit two threes in a row, thought he was on fire, and then looked only for his offense to the detriment of his team.

And I did mention that he made some good passes, but they were mainly outlet passes. In the half court he wasn't nearly as impressive.

I approached Mills with an open mind, and I was fairly complimentary after seeing him against Gonzaga. But this was soooooooooooo bad, in the worst ways possible. I can understand a bad shooting night. Absolutely killing your team every step of the way due to selfishness, taking abysmal shots, and choking away your team's last two opportunities is something else entirely.

Maybe this was just the absolute worst game of his entire life, in which case, okay, fine. You're allowed to stink up the Cox Center in the NIT. But man. If that game didn't give you a little bit of heebie jeebies about him I don't know what to tell you.

Look, I've been watching Mill for two years, and last night is one of his worst games. I just hate to see someone make a decision on a player based on that game and two others. He's not a selfish player, but at the moment he is more of a shoot first pt guard. He has amazing quickness and sometimes forgets to use it. What I like about him is that he has great court vision and he has very good passing ability. He has the tools to be a very good pt guard.

If you recorded the game, go back and see how many times he got the ball inside and the center couldn't hit the ocean with a pea. This has been the story with St. Mary's all year. I beleive that if you were to put Mills on a team that could finish, he wouldn't shoot as much and his assist total would go up. The truth is, that for the last two years, Mills was St. Mary's. He is head and shoulders above everyone else on that team. Now that may say more about the team than it does Mills, but he's had to carry them too many times.

I don't think he's completely recovered from his injury as far as timing goes, and I think he was trying too hard to carry his team to a victory. As a result he made mistakes he usually doesn't make. As far as his height, I have no idea. We'll just have to wait for the measurements. He has a lot of room for improvement, but has all the skills to be good. Now its up to him.

 

[steelevt]

I've seen Mills play three times now, and my concerns are 1) size, 2) decisionmaking, 3) shooting

I can understand your concern for his size, and its been discussed over and over that chris paul is the exception to the rule so I see your point. as for the decision making and shooting, I have to believe this was an off game. I believe he normally doesn't turn the ball over that much and the fact he kept jacking up shots was him trying to bring it on himself to carry his team. hopefully he will learn to trust his teammates when he reaches the next level. as for shooting, I believe he has the ability to make shots, otherwise his coach wouldn't just let anyone take those shots. I heard his shooting isn't bad but maybe just his shot selection...something that can be fixed. my main argument isn't that if he's the best pg or even if he's better than teague. its just I think he's worth a gamble with the rockets pick and dropping him to the bottom of your pg list is extreme. but hey its your list and I respect that we just might have different views. but if we can get him with the rockets pick, he might be a diamond in the rough or at least a good backup pg. which im fine with since its a late round pick

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

The reasons why some of you guys like / dont like Mills and/or Teague is why I like Curry better than both of them.

Curry is the best shooter out of them all, Better size then mills, More of a point then Teague, Better passing then Teague and on par with Mills, Better defensively than Mills and very good at getting to the rim/ getting to the line ....

Just seems like the best point prospect out of the three of them to me, and aside from Rubio he is my favorite point guard coming out of the draft...