and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I think I just herd on the Radio that Mullens was officially entering the draft .. just wanted to throw that out there ..

Top 5:

1) Griffin - No Brainer, I dont want to trade it either.. I think he can be an elite player.

2) Rubio - Potential Potential Potential .. If he enters.

3/4) Thabeet / Curry - Torn here ..

5) Flynn/Teague

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

1a) Griffin
1b) Rubio
3) Derozan
4) Thabeet
5) Evans

 

[Hallama]

1. Griffin
2. Rubio
3. Thabeet
4. Harden
5. Mullens

 

[Vlade4GM]

I wouldn't mind trading for Mullens, don't know what it would take though.

 

[Henkel]

I am surprised to see Mullen on a couple of lists. I understand he has a lot of potential, but skill wise he has a long way to go on the offensive end. Any worries about him being the next Chris Taft?

 

[sidney]

No. Shawn Bradley is useless. I never said Thabeet was not athletic. Body control? We going to draft him because he's coordinated? He's a twig that has been blessed with great lenght.

sheesh, you're pretty hard on the guy. He 265 pounds, already has 20-30 pounds on Chandler and Dalembert and 3-4 inches of height. He's not a twig. He's not Saer Sene.

And yeah, body control. Lot of his blocks are pretty amazing. Little lightning quick pump faking guards get in the lane and it's like he's watching in slow motion as he picks his positioning for the block. That's why he's not a foul machine. It's an art form. He has that gift. I do not see Dalembert or Chandler anywhere near as gifted as shot blockers and they are their teams defensive anchors.

Not saying he's the #1 pick, but at 2 or 3 he may be the biggest impact guy left, especially given the current strengths of our youth.

 

[nbrans]

I am surprised to see Mullen on a couple of lists. I understand he has a lot of potential, but skill wise he has a long way to go on the offensive end. Any worries about him being the next Chris Taft?

I see him more like being, at worst, Jeff Foster. He's definitely raw and has a long way to go, especially defensively, but he's 7'0" and really athletic. He'll have a place in the league, and he still has quite a bit of offensive potential.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I see him more like being, at worst, Jeff Foster. He's definitely raw and has a long way to go, especially defensively, but he's 7'0" and really athletic. He'll have a place in the league, and he still has quite a bit of offensive potential.

Nbrans, what do you make of Terrence Williams? I love the guy, and I think he has a chance to be a really great player. OK, he's a streaky shooter, but he does everything else really well. I guess he may be a tad undersized for SG, he looks around 6'5'', but his athleticism makes up for it. As well as that, he's a really good passer and a good ball handler. He really does remind me of Roy. Unfortunately, I don't think he will be around for our second 1st. I can't wait to see him against Arizona. He is a very good defender and fun to watch.

 

[Henkel]

I see him more like being, at worst, Jeff Foster. He's definitely raw and has a long way to go, especially defensively, but he's 7'0" and really athletic. He'll have a place in the league, and he still has quite a bit of offensive potential.

He can finish around the basket and has good hands but i didn't see a lot of offensive potential out of him this year. He is very raw in the post and doesn't have a jump shot at this point. I think he has more potential as a post defender considering his physical ability. Although like you said he has work to do on that end as well. DeAndre Jordan is similar player in a lot of ways. He slipped to the early second round last year and it looks like he could become a very solid player in a few years. He could be a steal and we are certainly in a position to take some risks.

 

[nbrans]

Nbrans, what do you make of Terrence Williams? I love the guy, and I think he has a chance to be a really great player. OK, he's a streaky shooter, but he does everything else really well. I guess he may be a tad undersized for SG, he looks around 6'5'', but his athleticism makes up for it. As well as that, he's a really good passer and a good ball handler. He really does remind me of Roy. Unfortunately, I don't think he will be around for our second 1st. I can't wait to see him against Arizona. He is a very good defender and fun to watch.

I like him a lot as a glue guy, he's super athletic, a great defender and teammate, and has the type of winning mentality the team needs. But the reason I'd be nervous about taking him in the first round is that I don't know that you'd ever be able to depend upon him consistently for offense, and I think his size limits him to coming in as a backup SG.

DeMarre Carroll, for instance, might be someone whose game might better translate to the NBA even though he's less impressive and polished in college, simply because he can play a Renaldo Balkman-type hustle game in the NBA and is athletic enough to guard 2s and 3s and even some 4s. He just has has better size than Williams with similar athleticims and can do all those hustle things in the NBA, whereas not all of Williams' game (such as his rebounding) is probably going to translate.

I'd be happy if the Kings picked Williams, I just worry that the first round might be a stretch. Unless you're bringing offense it's tough to make it as a glue guy. Even guys like Raja Bell and Posey bring outside shooting, and I think it might be tough for him to fit in. The best hope is that he turns into someone like Doug Christie, but even Doug was able to bring the offense.

 

[Hallama]

Terence Williams needs to find the right NBA team. He'd be great in a backcourt with a tweener like Monta Ellis or even AI. He's a complimentary player. Don't see him as an All-Star, but a player a team loves to have and contributes to wins, not stats.

His defense is hard to judge since he plays exclusively on the block in a 2-3 zone. He definitely has the skills, so we'll have to wait and see on that.

Not a great scorer or shooter, but can get hot for a stretch. Doesn't really draw as much contact as you'd think. Excellent run and gun player in the open court.

 

[Hallama]

I am surprised to see Mullen on a couple of lists. I understand he has a lot of potential, but skill wise he has a long way to go on the offensive end. Any worries about him being the next Chris Taft?

He's the type of player that gets GMs fired or extends their contract. Projecting the draft out five years, he's a definite top 5 pick imo.

 

[nbrans]

Terence Williams needs to find the right NBA team. He'd be great in a backcourt with a tweener like Monta Ellis or even AI. He's a complimentary player. Don't see him as an All-Star, but a player a team loves to have and contributes to wins, not stats.

His defense is hard to judge since he plays exclusively on the block in a 2-3 zone. He definitely has the skills, so we'll have to wait and see on that.

Not a great scorer or shooter, but can get hot for a stretch. Doesn't really draw as much contact as you'd think. Excellent run and gun player in the open court.

Definitely agree with all of this. I think for the right team, especially a contender who needs to plug a glue guy hole, he'd be a great pick late in the first round. I just don't know thatwe can use a 1st Round pick on a guy who would probably only get 8 minutes backing up Kevin Martin, and that's assuming McCants isn't around next year.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I like him a lot as a glue guy, he's super athletic, a great defender and teammate, and has the type of winning mentality the team needs. But the reason I'd be nervous about taking him in the first round is that I don't know that you'd ever be able to depend upon him consistently for offense, and I think his size limits him to coming in as a backup SG.

DeMarre Carroll, for instance, might be someone whose game might better translate to the NBA even though he's less impressive and polished in college, simply because he can play a Renaldo Balkman-type hustle game in the NBA and is athletic enough to guard 2s and 3s and even some 4s. He just has has better size than Williams with similar athleticims and can do all those hustle things in the NBA, whereas not all of Williams' game (such as his rebounding) is probably going to translate.

I'd be happy if the Kings picked Williams, I just worry that the first round might be a stretch. Unless you're bringing offense it's tough to make it as a glue guy. Even guys like Raja Bell and Posey bring outside shooting, and I think it might be tough for him to fit in. The best hope is that he turns into someone like Doug Christie, but even Doug was able to bring the offense.

I am probably higher on him than I should be. Maybe it's because I really enjoy watching him play, and that he doesn't get mentioned a whole lot. Regardless, I will definitely be keeping an eye on him when he gets drafted. His stock could rise during the combine, too. Is he a senior? If so, that might not help his case.

What do you think of Evans? I really liked him as a prospect coming out of highschool, but I was awfully disappointed when I seen him play earlier in the year. I saw him play twice, and he looked like he had the IQ of a peanut. Just kept shooting, and kept making bad decisions. I was really disappointed. Recently, though, he has been playing much better, correct? Unfortunately, I haven't got to see a whole lot of his recent better play. I got to see some of the 2nd half of the Mizzou game thanks to the flex feed or whatever it's called, but that's it. I was encouraged by his play, he had 31, I think. I still think he has alot of upside, I just wish I could have got to see more of his better games.

 

[nbrans]

I am probably higher on him than I should be. Maybe it's because I really enjoy watching him play, and that he doesn't get mentioned a whole lot. Regardless, I will definitely be keeping an eye on him when he gets drafted. His stock could rise during the combine, too. Is he a senior? If so, that might not help his case.

What do you think of Evans? I really liked him as a prospect coming out of highschool, but I was awfully disappointed when I seen him play earlier in the year. I saw him play twice, and he looked like he had the IQ of a peanut. Just kept shooting, and kept making bad decisions. I was really disappointed. Recently, though, he has been playing much better, correct? Unfortunately, I haven't got to see a whole lot of his recent better play. I got to see some of the 2nd half of the Mizzou game thanks to the flex feed or whatever it's called, but that's it. I was encouraged by his play, he had 31, I think. I still think he has alot of upside, I just wish I could have got to see more of his better games.

Yeah, Evans has improved a whole lot with his decisionmaking and moves to the hoop. Unfortunately his game is pretty much all just moves to the hoop at this point, which is great for an up and down game like Missouri, but not so great if he's kept out of the paint. He's going to have to really develop his outside shooting and midrange game, but he's got a pretty decent starting place

He's a guy who could really benefit from a few years of seasoning in the NBA, and if he falls I wouldn't mind snagging him with the late first with the intention of stashing him for a while until he develops. He's probably going to need that type of low pressure environment, because he's going to struggle when he comes into the league.

Down the road though, with his vision and ballhandling ability, it's not too much of a stretch to think he could be a Brandon Roy type of player. But if I were Oklahoma, with a big hole at the 2, I'd be giving him a looong look.

 

[Kingster]

Definitely agree with all of this. I think for the right team, especially a contender who needs to plug a glue guy hole, he'd be a great pick late in the first round. I just don't know thatwe can use a 1st Round pick on a guy who would probably only get 8 minutes backing up Kevin Martin, and that's assuming McCants isn't around next year.

I think there's zippo chance of McCants being here next year. To me, Williams is a swing man. He takes over for Garcia (when he's traded) and would get major minutes when Noc leaves (when he's traded). I think he's a superior athlete to Garcia. Also, regarding defense, I see nothing that would indicate that he wouldn't be very good on defense. He's strong, quick, and can jump.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Blake Griffin, Anyone?

Another 30 point tournament game ...

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

Blake Griffin, Anyone?

Another 30 point tournament game ...

Did anyone see before the opening tip, they had Onuaku, listed at 6'9" jumping against Griffin. The camera angle was right down the half court line so you could see the height difference clearly, and Griffin appeared to be at least an inch shorter.

 

[bajaden]

Did anyone see before the opening tip, they had Onuaku, listed at 6'9" jumping against Griffin. The camera angle was right down the half court line so you could see the height difference clearly, and Griffin appeared to be at least an inch shorter.

The guy scores 30 points and I believe he pulled down 14 rebounds and all you can talk about is the jump ball at the beginning of the game. What a joke!!!

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

The guy scores 30 points and I believe he pulled down 14 rebounds and all you can talk about is the jump ball at the beginning of the game. What a joke!!!

Calm down bud, scroll back about a page and you'll see I have Griffin at the top of my draft board. I know you're adamant about waiting for the pre-draft measurements, but its been discussed a lot and that was the clearest angle that I've seen.

On a different note, I think that Blake's shot blocking numbers may be lower than they could be at OU because he does not attempt to block them whatsoever. Obviously this is speculation, but since he's so important to that team it seems as though Capel told him not to leave his feet so he can stay in the game. (and this is based on about 10-15 games, not just this one)

 

[Bricklayer]

The guy scores 30 points and I believe he pulled down 14 rebounds and all you can talk about is the jump ball at the beginning of the game. What a joke!!!

True, but it is still relevant for our purposes (assuming that on this board we are more concerned with him as a pro than a collegian) -- Michael Beasely put up monster numbers last year in college, and is going to be a solid pro. But the lack of size has been critical for him as a major inside player in the NBA. Tongiht we were watching a team with two undersized midget PFs in Arthur and Warrick, and you can jsut see they are too small. over ont eh bench we have a 6'8" powerhouse in Ike Diogu, and again just too small. Griffin is good enough that he should be able to overcome a lack of size better than those type people, but it sure would be nice if he measured out full size and did not have to in the first place.

 

[bajaden]

True, but it is still relevant for our purposes (assuming that on this board we are more concerned with him as a pro than a collegian) -- Michael Beasely put up monster numbers last year in college, and is going to be a solid pro. But the lack of size has been critical for him as a major inside player in the NBA. Tongiht we were watching a team with two undersized midget PFs in Arthur and Warrick, and you can jsut see they are too small. over ont eh bench we have a 6'8" powerhouse in Ike Diogu, and again just too small. Griffin is good enough that he should be able to overcome a lack of size better than those type people, but it sure would be nice if he measured out full size and did not have to in the first place.

First of all I apologize to KingGiant49erfan for maybe overreacting. I guess I just sick of talking about something we don't have the facts on. I sit down in Baja mexico and besides working in my garden and watching the tide come in with a cervesa, I watch basketball. I've seen Thompson, who appears to be standing right next to Greene, look an inch shorter than Greene. An then I've seen Greene who appears to be standing right next to Garcia, look the same height as Garcia. Does that mean that Thompson is shorter than Garcia?

At the end of Feb. I came up to Sacramento to visit my daughter. I had the pleasure of going to a few games. I use the word pleasure loosely because one of those games was the Indiana game. Out of curiosity, I went down to the floor at halftime and stood at floor level watching the players. Guess what? Thompson is taller than Greene and only about an inch shorter than Hawes. Greene is taller than Garcia. Now I didn't have a tape measure with me, but Thompson looked all of 6'10" and maybe 6'11", and he's bigger body wise than he appears on TV.

My point is, that televison is not three dimensional. There is no perception of depth. Two players can appear to be standing right next to one another, but in reality, one can be 12 inches closer to the camera than the other. Thus, a player that is shorter than the other can appear to be the same height, or even taller than the other player.

So until we actually have facts to deal with, I propose that we judge players on what they do on the floor. I understand the concerns some people have. Hell, we'll probably end up with the worst record in the NBA and with the fourth pick in the draft, and none of this will matter anyway...

 

[bajaden]

To those of you that did watch the Oklahoma game, and I'm sure it must have been many on this fourm, I'm curious about what you saw when you watched Griffin. Put aside any preconceived perceptions and forget about his height, or perceived, lack there of, and tell what your opinion is of how he played in just this one game. His quickness, or lack there of. His skill level. His intensity and competivness. His overall athletic ability. Would you want him on your team, based on just this one game.

The reason I say just this one game, is because anyone thats watched him play a lot, would agree with me, that this was a typical game for him. He's had a couple of worse games and he's had a couple of better games, but by and large, this is what he's done all year.

 

[Dime Dropper]

To those of you that did watch the Oklahoma game, and I'm sure it must have been many on this fourm, I'm curious about what you saw when you watched Griffin. Put aside any preconceived perceptions and forget about his height, or perceived, lack there of, and tell what your opinion is of how he played in just this one game. His quickness, or lack there of. His skill level. His intensity and competivness. His overall athletic ability. Would you want him on your team, based on just this one game.

The reason I say just this one game, is because anyone thats watched him play a lot, would agree with me, that this was a typical game for him. He's had a couple of worse games and he's had a couple of better games, but by and large, this is what he's done all year.

I'll give you my honest opinion on Griffin. I really like him.

I don't think he's quite as small as some people think, and I have a feeling he may look a little shorter than he is because he is very strong and bulky. If he was skinny and long, he would look taller. I think, at the very least, he will be an average sized PF. But, with his combination of strength and athleticism, I think he can be a really impressive player.

He is a very good rebounder. He isn't really polished offensively, but it's not as if he looks terrible with the ball. He is smooth, and IMO, it's clear he can become a reliable option on offense. He is already a good passer. Sometimes he forces it when double-teamed, but he is generally pretty good at recognising it and not forcing things.

He is intense, he plays hard. He has got pretty crazy hops considering how big a body he has. Is a powerful dunker. Tough as all hell, too, he'll play on no matter what. Not afraid to hustle for loose balls either. He'll do the dirty work if need be.

I don't get people not liking his quickness. Maybe he doesn't have the first step of Wade, but it's not unusual to see Griffin start the fast break himself for OK. He runs the floor like a guard. Terrific athlete. As far as his defense goes, he's not a stopper, but he should be a solid defender at the next level with experience. He'll block a shot a game on his help side defense and athleticism alone, but don't expect him to block 3 a game.

I said in another thread I would take Rubio over him everyday of the week. I don't know about that now. Honestly, I'd be equally happy with the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft assuming both Griffin and Rubio enter, but if we get the first, I think Griffin is solidifying himself, at least to me, as the safer pick. I really like him.

The only sucky thing about drafting Griffin would be, what would be do with Thompson? He's playing well, and he's a promising player. I guess you can never have enough talented bigs.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

To those of you that did watch the Oklahoma game, and I'm sure it must have been many on this fourm, I'm curious about what you saw when you watched Griffin. Put aside any preconceived perceptions and forget about his height, or perceived, lack there of, and tell what your opinion is of how he played in just this one game. His quickness, or lack there of. His skill level. His intensity and competivness. His overall athletic ability. Would you want him on your team, based on just this one game.

The reason I say just this one game, is because anyone thats watched him play a lot, would agree with me, that this was a typical game for him. He's had a couple of worse games and he's had a couple of better games, but by and large, this is what he's done all year.

I watched the game, I'll give you a little analysis of what I saw on that particular game.


Oklahoma started off with a solid lead ( they were up by 8-10 ) This is when I turned the TV On, so I didnt see the first 10 minutes. Im guessing the lead was due to Griffin, because when I turned the TV on they had just taken him out and could not score. Flynn brought The Orange back into the game and the Sooners couldnt break the zone.

The score was realy close now, The Griffin brothers were brought back into the game and they really played well together. Tyler was playing the high bost and Blake was down low. A couple decent dribble drives by warren got the ball to Tyler then down to Blake who has a nice And1. for rest of the first half Oklahoma pretty much fed the ball to Blake where he would make some move or kick it out to an open 3pt shooter .. displayed pretty good passing out of the post. I remember a nice up and under move he made towards the end of the first half, It wasnt a slow, crisp move like Hawes, but it was a lot quicker .. basically sacrificed technique for speed, just as effective.

Second half Oklahoma really opened up the lead with some Crocker 3's. This was the half for Blake started throwing dunks down and whatnot. Sooners were breaking down the zone easily now and getting the ball to blake on the baseline where he would take a step and slam it down. He even hit his head on the side of the backboard on one dunk.

Blake was a gamechanger out there, no doubt. When he was in they played a lot better than they did when he was out .. thats what you want from lottery players. He got the team open 3's and scored himself 30 points. Pulled down 14 boards awell. A few rebounds stick out in my head where his arm was a good 6 inches higher than everyone elses as he just beasted down the board.

He runs the floor EXTREMELY well.. brought the ball down the court himself a few times.

This is all coming from a Griffin Fan, I want him on this team and I think he is the real deal.

Even if he is an inch or 2 shorter than the average PF, He is an above average athlete and I think that can more than make up for it.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I'm more open to Griffin now than I was earlier in the year, I think that has to do mostly with other prospects not really picking up there game. I still favor Rubio but at this point I'd feel lucky if the Kings got either of them, this draft is so watered down, I wish we could trade the 2009 draft class for the potential 2010 class. So much depends on his measurements, so it's hard to say where he really ranks in my eyes right now. He still lacks perimeter skills and post moves. He's got a good touch down low, but he doesn't have the low base of Boozer, so I don't know if he can score down low like he can. He plays most like Martin offensively, but I don't think he has Martin's first step which can end up being a problem. Whether he can end up creating his own offense is a big question mark in my eyes.

 

[asakkings]

I would love to see Griffin in kings uniform its been a while since we have had someone with his fire and intensity. I want someone on the kings to be a mean guy who gets in people's heads and not timid like most kings players seemed to be.

 

[TheRaven]

Griffin has a lot of good qualities that people have already pointed out. Something that doesn't seem to get brought up often enough is his defensive deficiencies. He is great on the glass getting rebounds, but he is just not a good individual or help defender. He looks like he gets lost a lot defensively, and he looks horrible trying to defend the pick and roll, something that already kills us.

If it comes down to him being the best player, we should still take him. He could still improve defensively, just as some of the other prospects can improve in their weak areas. On a team like ours that already has so many problems defensively though, it is still something to keep in mind.

 

[Bricklayer]

Griffin has a lot of good qualities that people have already pointed out. Something that doesn't seem to get brought up often enough is his defensive deficiencies. He is great on the glass getting rebounds, but he is just not a good individual or help defender. He looks like he gets lost a lot defensively, and he looks horrible trying to defend the pick and roll, something that already kills us.

If it comes down to him being the best player, we should still take him. He could still improve defensively, just as some of the other prospects can improve in their weak areas. On a team like ours that already has so many problems defensively though, it is still something to keep in mind.

Yeah, that's the well known drawback, and for us I consider it to be a major one. If he is a major star level offensive player, you probably have to take him anyway, but there is no hope, none, defensively for a Hawes/JT/Griffin trio up front. Griffin's hustle is offensive in nature, he is not long, has no shotblocking instincts, and I think has a more lively off the floor body than true brute lower body strength body. And contrary to what people sometimes like to claim, players rarely dramatically change their stripes by the time they hit the NBA. If he's 20-10, then you just have to accept it and try to figure out some way to load the team up with defending rolleplayers to make up for your best players being crappy defenders. But if he's anything less...something has to give.

 

[bajaden]

Yeah, that's the well known drawback, and for us I consider it to be a major one. If he is a major star level offensive player, you probably have to take him anyway, but there is no hope, none, defensively for a Hawes/JT/Griffin trio up front. Griffin's hustle is offensive in nature, he is not long, has no shotblocking instincts, and I think has a more lively off the floor body than true brute lower body strength body. And contrary to what people sometimes like to claim, players rarely dramatically change their stripes by the time they hit the NBA. If he's 20-10, then you just have to accept it and try to figure out some way to load the team up with defending rolleplayers to make up for your best players being crappy defenders. But if he's anything less...something has to give.

This of course won't happen, except in my dreams or a drug induced trance, but how would you like a front line of Thabeet and Griffin? The only problem is that offensively they would probably get in each others way. It would be fun to watch though.