and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
- Start date
I heard an interview today, I think on Fox sports radio, with two NBA scouts. They both said that Blake Griffin is hands down the best player in the draft. They said he was a tremendous athlete. One scout said a good comparison would be a more athletic Karl Malone. I don't think I would go that far, but it is high praise.
Having just watched Thabeet again, I'm sorry, but I simply don't see how you can watch him play and not really like him as a pro prospect. When I initially suggested the Gambit back early in the year, I was going off of whate he was last year and thinking of him as a roleplaying 3rd big, but the more the see of how far he has progressed this season the more the possibility of him as a legit NBA starter looms. He's got the size, he's got stamina for such a huge player, and again I am sorry, but I am not sure I can remember ANY 7'3" player ever moving like he does. Its ridiculous. Know Sabonis when he was young was supposed to be an athlete. But Thabeet...guys that huge just don't move like he does. He's even developed a mean streak. No more lost and confused stuff -- he knows what he wants to do out there, knows he is good, and is developing a swagger.
I agree 100 %. He is a monster under that basket straight up. There was a sequence late in the game when he was just not letting anyone even touch the basket.
The only negative I can see with him as a pro is all the fouls that would get called on him, simply due to the fact that he is so physical and goes after EVERY ball.
But if that's the biggest negative - I want this kid.
The only negative I can see with him as a pro is all the fouls that would get called on him, simply due to the fact that he is so physical and goes after EVERY ball.
But if that's the biggest negative - I want this kid.
I think he might be the best 7'3" perimeter defender there has ever been. He has more mobility than a Brad Miller or a Joel Pryzbilla. And he has started to show a very Tyson Chandleresque lock and dunk inside game. You guard him with a twerp, he's going to go right over the top.
Its a specious argument anyway. Non-offensive defensive stoppers inside have always been potent weapons in the NBA for any umber of top teams. Big Ben, Tyson Chandler, Erick Dampier, Kendrick Perkins, etc. And Thabeet has a chance to be more intimidating than any of them.
Its a specious argument anyway. Non-offensive defensive stoppers inside have always been potent weapons in the NBA for any umber of top teams. Big Ben, Tyson Chandler, Erick Dampier, Kendrick Perkins, etc. And Thabeet has a chance to be more intimidating than any of them.
Last edited:
I would have a hard time taking Thabeet with the number one choice in the draft. I would have no problem taking him from number 3 on. If Griffin is as coveted as those NBA scouts say, then he could be a bargining chip to aquire another first round pick in the draft, or another first next year. I've heard that Oklahoma really wants him.
Anyway it would be nice to end up with another pick and get Thabeet too.
Anyway it would be nice to end up with another pick and get Thabeet too.
Actually this may be his biggest problem. Because he leaves his feet and goes after every shot in reach, he puts himself out of rebound position. Hopefully, in the NBA, he'll learn to throttle back and be more selective. Defending his own man isn't going to be a problem because of his length, as long as he doesn't leave his feet, and blocks out his man to maintain rebound position. It's on help defense, were he'll have to learn when to try and block, and when to rebound.
Joe Dumars wasn't athletic? I would strongly disagree with that. If you were going to go from that era though, you could have chosen Mitch Richmond. But that era is not coming back, and the GMs who think it's coming back are the ones who draft guys like Adam Morrison.
The fact is, there's not a successful 6'4" shooting guard in the NBA right now who isn't a crazy athlete. Wade, Mayo... sensational athletes. Harden isn't one.
Harden will probably have a role in the NBA. But a "nice all around game" when you're undersized and not a great athlete never translates to stardom.
The fact is, there's not a successful 6'4" shooting guard in the NBA right now who isn't a crazy athlete. Wade, Mayo... sensational athletes. Harden isn't one.
Harden will probably have a role in the NBA. But a "nice all around game" when you're undersized and not a great athlete never translates to stardom.
Last edited:
From the games I have seen this season that's not really true anymore -- at this point Thabeet is actually one of the more disciplined major shotblockers I have seen at the college level, and if anything it looks like he is holding back out there so that he doesn't pick up fouls. He's a Top 20 college rebounder at over 10 a game, and he only averages 2.5fls a game in over 30 minutes a night, and has only fouled out once, despite being a huge shotblocker and the anchor of his defense. Its just another of the areas where you are seeing a sophistication to his game now that suggests he's gone beyond just physical freak and is moving toward basketball player. With his size he doesn't have to fly around nearly as much as a shorter player, and can just loom until the last second.
As for leaving his man -- yeah at times, but that's his role. Cover for the mistakes of his perimeter guys. God knows it would be on this team. He'd have an opportunity to average 20 blks a night.
As for leaving his man -- yeah at times, but that's his role. Cover for the mistakes of his perimeter guys. God knows it would be on this team. He'd have an opportunity to average 20 blks a night.
I like Thabeet, but despite him averaging alot of boards, it is worrying to see how he gets them. He doesn't box out and he is regularly out battled for the rebound by a guy half the size of him. The rebounds he gets are the ones that fall to him. He needs to work on his rebounding because with his size and athleticism there is little stopping him from being an elite rebounder at the next level. Right now it is just not there, though.
His shotblocking is excellent as people already know. Defense is very so-so but that can improve with work. He is still a force in the lane.
One of the things that worries me is that he is simply weak with the ball under the basket. He just cannot hold onto the ball at all. It happens at least twice a game where he has the ball under the rim, all he needs to do is sky and throw it down, yet he loses it and the ball goes flying away. How on earth is he going to cope with that in the NBA? It is almost as if he is not strong enough to hold onto the ball during contact. I've never seen a player lose it as much as him.
That being said, Thabeet is never going to be drafted for his offensive abilities. I like him and his potential, and particularly his shot-blocking and intimidation. But if the dude simply can't do anything on offense, how is he going to get on the court? Especially on a team like the Kings, where defense is disregarded and offense is the be-all and end-all.
I like him and would be fine picking him, but I just can't see Petrie taking a raw, defensive player with a high pick.
His shotblocking is excellent as people already know. Defense is very so-so but that can improve with work. He is still a force in the lane.
One of the things that worries me is that he is simply weak with the ball under the basket. He just cannot hold onto the ball at all. It happens at least twice a game where he has the ball under the rim, all he needs to do is sky and throw it down, yet he loses it and the ball goes flying away. How on earth is he going to cope with that in the NBA? It is almost as if he is not strong enough to hold onto the ball during contact. I've never seen a player lose it as much as him.
That being said, Thabeet is never going to be drafted for his offensive abilities. I like him and his potential, and particularly his shot-blocking and intimidation. But if the dude simply can't do anything on offense, how is he going to get on the court? Especially on a team like the Kings, where defense is disregarded and offense is the be-all and end-all.
I like him and would be fine picking him, but I just can't see Petrie taking a raw, defensive player with a high pick.
He still has the bad habit of bringing the ball down to waist level after he catches it. Thus it gets stolen. I see him as a talent, but a one trick pony at this point. He'll need to revamp his game at the NBA level or he'll giving the other team 10 pts a game for three second violations. He lives in the lane. He'll also face a lot of bigs that will take him away from the basket where he's much less threat to do much of anything. His technic for rebounding has gotten better, but he still has a long way to go. On offense, all he can do is dunk, and sometimes, for what ever reason, he tries to just lay it up. He has a decent looking little jumper, but seems reluctant to use it. He's not a good passer or ball handler.
Now all of these things can be improved, and who knows? He may become one of the greatest defenders of all time. With good offensive players around him it might work. Besides, working with Coachie, he might actually figure out what a back door cut is, and how to defend it.
Now all of these things can be improved, and who knows? He may become one of the greatest defenders of all time. With good offensive players around him it might work. Besides, working with Coachie, he might actually figure out what a back door cut is, and how to defend it.
I think that Harden is a much better athlete than your giving him credit for. Its all subjective, but he reminds me of Griffin, in that he only does what is necessary. I'm not saying the dude is going to be a superstar, but I think he can be a very good player in this league. There are players with much less athletic ability that have suceeded.
I don't think anyone said that Dumars wasn't athletic. They said he wasn't a super athlete. There is a middle ground you know. Its not all or nothing. Athleticism is totaly subjective too. Some players can jump out of the building but aren't particularly quick. Some are extremely quick, but don't have great leaping ability. Some are quick and can jump, but don't have very good lateral movement. If you find a player that has all of the above and is also skilled, then you have Lebron or Kobe.
As far as Harden's height, or any other players height, why don't we just wait till the pre-draft camp. Up until then its all just speculation. You know and I know that its very hard to tell on television. If he's 6'4" in shoes, then you win. But what if he's 6'5" and has long arms. We simply don't know! So to use it as part of an arguement for not wanting a player isn't fair, until we know for sure.
I don't think anyone said that Dumars wasn't athletic. They said he wasn't a super athlete. There is a middle ground you know. Its not all or nothing. Athleticism is totaly subjective too. Some players can jump out of the building but aren't particularly quick. Some are extremely quick, but don't have great leaping ability. Some are quick and can jump, but don't have very good lateral movement. If you find a player that has all of the above and is also skilled, then you have Lebron or Kobe.
As far as Harden's height, or any other players height, why don't we just wait till the pre-draft camp. Up until then its all just speculation. You know and I know that its very hard to tell on television. If he's 6'4" in shoes, then you win. But what if he's 6'5" and has long arms. We simply don't know! So to use it as part of an arguement for not wanting a player isn't fair, until we know for sure.
On your last point, I agree. He doesn't seem like a Petrie type of player, so I would be surprised if he were to pick him. However, lets say were unfortunate, and end up picking 5th. Thabeet may be the best player left thats worth a pick that high. There's still a long way to go. Last year Brook Lopez was down in the teens and by draft day he had risen up into the top ten.
On Thabeet, I think he's improved a great deal from last year, and I have to give him credit for that. But, at the same time, I'm not willing to overlook the obvious flaws that remain, just to appease my desire to have a great shot blocker. Especially if we have the first pick in the draft. I think there's too much risk with him to go number one. I'm no expert, and perhaps I'm being too shortsighted. Something about him scares me. If we end up with him, I certainly hope that I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
On Thabeet, I think he's improved a great deal from last year, and I have to give him credit for that. But, at the same time, I'm not willing to overlook the obvious flaws that remain, just to appease my desire to have a great shot blocker. Especially if we have the first pick in the draft. I think there's too much risk with him to go number one. I'm no expert, and perhaps I'm being too shortsighted. Something about him scares me. If we end up with him, I certainly hope that I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
Good athlete, yes. Sensational athlete? Not even close. And you asked for sensational athlete, which Dumars clearly isn't. And even though I'm a little young to remember that era completely, that era had its share of athletic freaks who were supposed to overwhelm a 6'3" SG like Dumars who relies more on guile than athleticism. And if you take the best players from that era and put them in today, they'll still be the best players in the league.
For guys who are still playing today, one of my fav is Delonte West. Good athlete for sure, but by no means an above the rim player. Notice I'm not comparing Harde to West in any way. Just that those under 6'5" SG do succeed in the league.
And I don't get the Adam Morrison anology, I don't think that era is coming back, I thought Morrison was overrated, and I think Harden is going to be a very good player. These things are not mutually exclusive, you know.
For guys who are still playing today, one of my fav is Delonte West. Good athlete for sure, but by no means an above the rim player. Notice I'm not comparing Harde to West in any way. Just that those under 6'5" SG do succeed in the league.
And I don't get the Adam Morrison anology, I don't think that era is coming back, I thought Morrison was overrated, and I think Harden is going to be a very good player. These things are not mutually exclusive, you know.
Last edited: