If you are interested, in his last match Jennings had 13 points and 10 steals (but 6 turnovers) in 21 minutes.
http://195.56.77.210/game/63777.html
http://195.56.77.210/game/63777.html
and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
- Start date
If we do draft Thabeet, we're going to have to look for a passer at one of the other spots. I know Martin and Thompson show flashes of good playmaking, but that's not their mentality to be pass-first. We're going to need a facilitating PG or SF for it to work. We have Hawes and the second first rounder as bargaining chips hopefully we can find one. Maybe Jeff Green?
Hawes is having trouble now because his inside offensive game isn't there yet. That's why they take him out when the other team goes small. Hawes's offensive game is light years more advanced than Thabeet. The question for Thabeet is can he score consistently in the post on an NBA 6'9" guy that he has to guard on the wing? (I don't mean on garbage stuff). If not, then teams will go small and his effectiveness will be severely limited.
Thabeet isn't going to be posting the typical 6'9" NBA starter anytime soon. He's not even close to being strong enough to get position against that type of a player, nor is he skilled enough with a jump hook or whatever shot to consistently punish such a player. The list of non-mentionables above does not inspire me to draft Thabeet. They are not arguments in favor of a one-dimensional defensive players, but just the opposite. They are all second tier players. Yes, Thabeet could be as good or better eventually as some of those players, so if that is your barometer, I can understand why you like him.
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With Martin, Hawes, and maybe even Donte(once Salmons is traded), this team has already enough offensive minded players to share that ball. So drafting Thabeet does not put the offense much on jeopardy. He can live with putbacks, and alley-oops on this 1st-3rd year. The thing is we will have a really intimidating big man down low, which is the usual anchor of any championship team. Bynum did not contribute that fast but the kid is big and mobile, then once he learned those essentials from a coach that's when he started to dominate. Same goes to Thabeet's potential here.
And I agree on a tradedown of our Houston pick. Maybe we can try to call on Michael Jordan and Larry "rookie-bencher-coach" Brown, to send their picks to us for some of our vets who should easily blend with Brown's system before the trade deadline or at the draft day. With Wallace out, Bobcats pick will most likely be from 8-15 for 2009.
And I agree on a tradedown of our Houston pick. Maybe we can try to call on Michael Jordan and Larry "rookie-bencher-coach" Brown, to send their picks to us for some of our vets who should easily blend with Brown's system before the trade deadline or at the draft day. With Wallace out, Bobcats pick will most likely be from 8-15 for 2009.
I'm not saying this is as an argument against Thabeet, but the Kings are never going to draft him. They'd have to be at the tail end of the lotto in order to take a chance on him. Assuming they have a high pick, they're not going to take someone that is going to be a role player and need about 3-4 more years until he is a finished product (if he ever is). They're going to take someone that is relatively marketable and can be a starter very soon.
You never know what Petrie wants these days. Adelman is out and the system is still at the limbo. I think he already learned from the Douby draft to care less about 3-point shots. It was Adelman's system that pushed the big men to shoot 3s, which became a habit of Miller(even after the Adelman era), then Hawes bit into it, and a few nibble by Thompson in the earlier part of the season when Theus was believing JT is a SF.
So even if Thabeet won't shoot any 3s as long as he does well with his assets, being mobile and defensive big man who's willing to learn thoughout the summer. I'm still into the Thabeet bandwagon even if Petrie remains as the GM.
So even if Thabeet won't shoot any 3s as long as he does well with his assets, being mobile and defensive big man who's willing to learn thoughout the summer. I'm still into the Thabeet bandwagon even if Petrie remains as the GM.
The other problem is that of all the one-sided defensive players the last twenty years, only Mutombo, Ben Wallace, and Rodman (baggage aside) ultimatley had careers worthy of being a top 5 pick. All three of those players were also dominant man defenders and rebounders. To this point, Thabeet has gotten destroyed 1 on 1 by every fringe NBA prospect he has faced and while he appears to be a solid rebounder, he is far from dominant by any metric.
If we get unlucky and get the 4-5-6 pick, than Thabeet seems like a worthy gambe in this draft, but our team still needs a star player. Taking a one dimensional shot blocker is not going to be a cure all.
With that said, if he can carry over his recent play against weaker competition and play this well against real players the rest of the season and in the Tourney, than the previous assesment can change.
I am not on the Thabeet bandwagon either. Been watching the Kid for 3 years now and he is still very raw. His defense is kind of hit and miss. Sometimes his shot blocking makes him look like a good defender, but the next play someone drives right around him and scores. He isn't shouldn't be listed as a "monster defender" or whatever they have him because blocking a few shots does not mean he can defend someon 1 on 1. In the NBA I do not want to have to play a zone because of Thabeets inability to guard someone.
I am also worried about his crappy play against NBA prospects.
I am also worried about his crappy play against NBA prospects.
So, if we get the 2nd pick, who do you want to take? Harden so he can share time with Martin? Some less then stellar PG like Jennings or Teague? Another PF like Hill, or a SF like Aminu? No one other than Griffin is a sure thing. At least Thabeet has a chance of becoming a special player. None of them are going to be a impact player the 1st year.
If there is no sure thing by the Final Four, you have to go with the player that has the most potental to be an impact player even if you have to wait 3yrs. I'm willing to wait 3yrs for a Mutombo type player. It's going to take that long before JT & Hawes really develop.
If there is no sure thing by the Final Four, you have to go with the player that has the most potental to be an impact player even if you have to wait 3yrs. I'm willing to wait 3yrs for a Mutombo type player. It's going to take that long before JT & Hawes really develop.
Hawes & JT have been playing bb since grade school, and Hawes family had NBA experience. Thabeet played 1yr before college and now is one of the top centers in college. I think it is rediculous to think that it would take him 5 or 6 yrs to develop. With his natural abilities and NBA coaching he'll be right on pace with JT & Hawes. And, defensively he'll probably be ahead of JT. Certainly, if Bynum can develop in 3 yrs straight out of HS, there's no reason to believe Thabeet would do any differently after 3yrs of college.
Um..... Sometimes shotblocking anchors your ENTIRE defense and you completely take away team's inside game, which is what Thabeet recently did to Notre Dame, Louisville, and Michigan. They were completely taken off their game and people just stopped challenging him entirely.
You guys are seriously underselling Thabeet. I understand if people have concerns about him being raw offensively -- he definitely is, and that could be a problem in the NBA. But he's been nothing short of spectacular lately. He's a true game-changer defensively whether he's getting blocks, hedging screens, or getting rebounds. He is a presence.
Trying to make the case that he's not a good defender is just ludicrous at this point.
You guys are seriously underselling Thabeet. I understand if people have concerns about him being raw offensively -- he definitely is, and that could be a problem in the NBA. But he's been nothing short of spectacular lately. He's a true game-changer defensively whether he's getting blocks, hedging screens, or getting rebounds. He is a presence.
Trying to make the case that he's not a good defender is just ludicrous at this point.
There are any number of options, including the ones you have mentioned. Teague and Jennings both could be special players on both offence and defense. I just think early in the draft you need to try to land a star, not a specialist.
Don't get me wrong either, I WANT to love Thabeet. I think defense wins championships. I have won them myself at various levels and am all about D. The thought of having a defensive beast on our team would could own the pain and greatly hamper the opposing team's best big man is something I want badly. But to quote all those CSI shows on TV, I also won't let my own desires get in the way of the evidence. And as much as I want to believe Thabeet can be the next Mutombo/Rodman/Wallace, so far he has not done much to distinguish himself from Shawn Bradley, Dan Gadzuric, Jerome Moiso, Hilton Armstrong and every other similar player.
Don't get me wrong either, I WANT to love Thabeet. I think defense wins championships. I have won them myself at various levels and am all about D. The thought of having a defensive beast on our team would could own the pain and greatly hamper the opposing team's best big man is something I want badly. But to quote all those CSI shows on TV, I also won't let my own desires get in the way of the evidence. And as much as I want to believe Thabeet can be the next Mutombo/Rodman/Wallace, so far he has not done much to distinguish himself from Shawn Bradley, Dan Gadzuric, Jerome Moiso, Hilton Armstrong and every other similar player.
I really question how you could reach that conclusion. Gadzuric, Moiso and Armstrong were all 6'10". Bradley could barely move. Thabeet is 7'3" and an athlete. He's absolutely nothing like those players.
I understand that Thabeet has his weaknesses. But let's not get out of hand here. He's not Shawn Bradley.
I understand that Thabeet has his weaknesses. But let's not get out of hand here. He's not Shawn Bradley.
Well that's what we are trying to figure out. Patroling the paint against marginal team's does not translate to being a good defender in the NBA. As I have said multiple times, if he can play this well against higher caliber teams and NBA caliber players, I am fully ready and willing to jump on the bandwagon. However, I can't tell you how many draft busts have looked like all stars against marginal competition, but then struggle against players with greater size, speed, skill, etc.
Look, I am pulling for him. If he can keep this up against better competition, than I would love for the Kings to get him and for him to anchor our D. I am just not convinced he can based off of a handful of games against weak competition.
Thabeet right now is worth 10pts to his college team just on defense alone. He is the anchor.
Seriously, I think some of you are living in the past on this player. You watch him play today, and the shotblocking is the least of his defensive impact. People are terrified of him, and they should be. Like all great shotblockers its the 2 shots he intimidates for every shot he actually blocks that make the real difference. He just lurks back there, and guys change their mind before they ever get around to shooting. Half the time his own man won't even look at the hoop. I do see the times when he does not challenge, but it seems pretty clear to me that that is a college kid trying not to pick up cheap fouls, and tyring to keep his own man from getting an easy dunk -- that is the sophistication I mentioned earlier. This is not a guy who blocks 4 shots a game by chasing every shot and hopping around everywhere -- he blocks 4 shots a game EASILY, picking his spots, letting things go that he does not think he can reach. If he wanted to chase everything he'd probably average 6 at least, but be fouling out every night. As it is he plays within himself. He also is 7'3" yet quick enough to show up top on screens and recover back down to protect the paint.
Nor is he "raw" or all this bunk either. His offensive game is limited, but it now has structure. Simple but sufficient -- get position, lock the defender, wait for a lob for a dunk. Its not much different than what a Chandler brings. Not only that, he shows some potential for a little face up jumper. The form on his FTs is good, and he had a good looking stroke when he ventured out there against Louisville. And he simply does not look lost, confused, or awkward out there like the truly raw guys we ahve seen over the years. On the contrary he increasingly looks like he knows exactly what he wants to do out there and he's actually causing teams to have to collapse their defense to prevent it. He will never be a primary, or likely even secondary scorer, but who cares? That's not the point with a player like that. He already has an idea of how to play a role on offense that teams have to account for, and that is seriously enough. Put him wiht Chris Paul and I am not sure the results on offense would be much worse than they are for Chandler.
Throw in that he's bulked up and started to get very physical setting picks and on the glass and you have a player who has come a tremendously long way in 3 years. Two year old scouting reports have nothing to do with the player who has been taking the court as this season has progressed.
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