and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

nbrans · Feb 4, 2009

Wake/Miami-

Wake has a completely dysfunctional offense, and I don't know if it's a result of players who don't know what they're doing or Dino Gaudio or both. If Teague doesn't have the ball no one is scoring. What's really amazing to me is that they spend a lot of the game with Ishmael Smith running the point, and yet he's even more of a tunnel vision point than Teague. He makes absolutely nothing happen. Miami just sat back in a simple zone, and Wake didn't have the smarts or the outside shooting to beat it. They don't try and free up Teague by running him off screens, just content to try to dribble into traffic against the zone or shoot contested 3s. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Wake is usually able to beat teams with their superior athleticism, but Miami is their equal there, and when it comes to smarts and fundamentals, Wake isn't beating anyone.

Teague: Running the point early, and looked good doing it. Had a nice pass to an open man for 3 and some other solid passes that didn't result in scores. Then Wake tried to force shots without getting him the ball, which just doesn't work. I don't know when they're ever going to learn. Had a really nice finish on a fast break, carried the ball on another one. Had a really sweet dribble and pull up from 20, then followed it up with a steal, a nice pass, and the Wake guy blew the dunk. 3 pointer wasn't falling at all and it seemed to get in his head a little, so he penetrated inside, which mostly worked. Really uses his quickness defensively both with steals and blocks. Came out in the second half pretty determined to get to the rim, and his outside shot still wasn't falling. He doesn't always force the action, for better or worse -- he's not overly selfish, but he never was really able to put the team on his shoulders either, and his teammates never look to set him up. Also seems to have somewhat of a bad attitude, yelling at guys for the things he's doing himself, like hesitating shooting threes. Two so-so games in a row for him, and needless to say, both losses for Wake.

Aminu opened with two consecutive airballs. Yikes. Turned out to be an abysmal game for him. Had a couple decent passes, and he can lead a break provided he does not have to use his left hand. Rattled in a 15 footer, didn't make it look pretty. Plays really dumb defense, either hedges out too much on screens or not enough. Made absolutely nothing happen in the second half and made truly boneheaded plays like dribbling into offensive fouls and attempting behind-the-back moves and turning it over. Stay in school, Al-Farouq.

DeQuan Jones: This guy is just a crazy, freakish athlete. Had a nice block early and then an awesome running dunk. No skills though.

Have to believe that Jack McClinton has a role in the NBA as a Eddie House-type.

nbrans · Feb 4, 2009

Duke/Clemson-

Trevor Booker is tough and athletic. Unfortunately he's 6'7" and I think he might be the second coming of Kenny Thomas.

Duke looked really terrible in this one. Just rattled, couldn't deal with the pressure, and not athletic enough.

Arby's Roast Beef · Feb 4, 2009

nbrans said:

Wake/Miami-

Wake has a completely dysfunctional offense, and I don't know if it's a result of players who don't know what they're doing or Dino Gaudio or both. If Teague doesn't have the ball no one is scoring. What's really amazing to me is that they spend a lot of the game with Ishmael Smith running the point, and yet he's even more of a tunnel vision point than Teague. He makes absolutely nothing happen. Miami just sat back in a simple zone, and Wake didn't have the smarts or the outside shooting to beat it. They don't try and free up Teague by running him off screens, just content to try to dribble into traffic against the zone or shoot contested 3s. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Wake is usually able to beat teams with their superior athleticism, but Miami is their equal there, and when it comes to smarts and fundamentals, Wake isn't beating anyone.

Teague: Running the point early, and looked good doing it. Had a nice pass to an open man for 3 and some other solid passes that didn't result in scores. Then Wake tried to force shots without getting him the ball, which just doesn't work. I don't know when they're ever going to learn. Had a really nice finish on a fast break, carried the ball on another one. Had a really sweet dribble and pull up from 20, then followed it up with a steal, a nice pass, and the Wake guy blew the dunk. 3 pointer wasn't falling at all and it seemed to get in his head a little, so he penetrated inside, which mostly worked. Really uses his quickness defensively both with steals and blocks. Came out in the second half pretty determined to get to the rim, and his outside shot still wasn't falling. He doesn't always force the action, for better or worse -- he's not overly selfish, but he never was really able to put the team on his shoulders either, and his teammates never look to set him up. Also seems to have somewhat of a bad attitude, yelling at guys for the things he's doing himself, like hesitating shooting threes. Two so-so games in a row for him, and needless to say, both losses for Wake.

Aminu opened with two consecutive airballs. Yikes. Turned out to be an abysmal game for him. Had a couple decent passes, and he can lead a break provided he does not have to use his left hand. Rattled in a 15 footer, didn't make it look pretty. Plays really dumb defense, either hedges out too much on screens or not enough. Made absolutely nothing happen in the second half and made truly boneheaded plays like dribbling into offensive fouls and attempting behind-the-back moves and turning it over. Stay in school, Al-Farouq.

DeQuan Jones: This guy is just a crazy, freakish athlete. Had a nice block early and then an awesome running dunk. No skills though.

Have to believe that Jack McClinton has a role in the NBA as a Eddie House-type.

How did James Johnson for Wake look?

nbrans · Feb 4, 2009

Arby's Roast Beef said:

Really bad. Hit a few outside jumpers, but tried to force way too much off the dribble. Against Duke he was just to big and athletic for them, but Miami was able to easily contain him. He should have been able to find the seams in Miami's zone if Wake would have just moved the ball around, but he always seemed to get the ball out on the perimeter and either try and drive it to the hoop or shoot from outside.

Kings Faithful · Feb 4, 2009

bajaden said:

K...in that case I agree. Just making sure you were thinking straight!

nbrans · Feb 4, 2009

UCLA/USC (not over yet, but it's a blowout and I'd rather watch Lost)-

Jrue Holiday: Came out firing in this one, drew a foul and then drained a three, without his trademark "I don't know if I should shoot this three or not" hitch no less! Drove in before the decent was set and had a nice layup. Still, most of his assists in the first half came from passes on the perimeter, some of them very creative, but not much in the way of penetration/ballhandling, and had some bad turnovers. The passing is there with Jrue. I can't emphasize that enough: He's a fantastic, creative, special passer. What I'm still not seeing is the quickness with the ball you'd want out of an NBA point guard. We'll see though, he's been getting better each game lately.

Collison: They didn't need him to score in the first half and he only took one shot. His outside jumper has really been off lately, and it looks like he changed his form a bit? I don't know. It's been a long time since he's shot outside consistently. Seems like he's lost his confidence from outside after beginning the season shooting 50% plus.

Is it just me or is Drew Gordon the second coming of Matt Barnes?

I guess USC has been battling some serious illnesses (the announcers said that Gibson had pneumonia last week), and they came out looking extremely flat and were running a throwback four corners offense in the 1st half, and weren't running any of their junk defenses. Can't think of the last time I saw someone run that when they weren't trying to run out the clock. DeRozan continues to show flashes, Taj Gibson never really touched the ball (then seemed to injure his hand and sat out a while), Hackett fouled out with 9 minutes left.... just bad.

UCLA is tough to beat when Dragovic is on fire.

Arby's Roast Beef · Feb 4, 2009

nbrans said:

Thanks. Confirms a little bit of my suspicion about him--as a guy who really impressed as a freshman because he was their go-to guy of sorts, but took somewhat of a backseat in the offense this season with the emergence of Teague and the addition of Aminu. He still has value as an inside-outside guy and a slithery athlete, but his game is really that of a 3-year or 4-year type prospect.

nbrans · Feb 4, 2009

Arby's Roast Beef said:

I just don't know what position he'd play in the NBA. Is he a small forward? A power forward? He's not really quick enough to be a small forward, not big enough to be a power forward. He's the ultimate college tweener.

Sarunas · Feb 4, 2009

nbrans said:

Ya I have been impressed with DeRozan lately. He still isnt putting up great numbers, but hes showing that he has some basketball IQ, and has a bright future. As unathletic as our franchise has been, I would honestly be all for taking him if thabeet, teague, griffin, rubio, are all off the board by the time we pick. Its a definitely gamble, but while the bad side could be pretty bad, the potential winnings could pay off huge. The guy is a freak athlete with way more skills than the other freak athletes in college (aminu, jones from miami, etc.) He COULD blossom into something special, just like all lottery picks i suppose.

bajaden · Feb 5, 2009

nbrans said:

I was refering to body type when I made the Camby resemblence. Thats who he reminds the most of when he plays. I'm not going to quible over an inch. I'm not going to waste my time going over old ground as far as the rest goes.

bajaden · Feb 5, 2009

Capt. Factorial said:

Yeah, maybe I should have phrased it better. It was just the cool reaction I got from a lot of people when I thought he would be a good choice for the Kings. That was before he moved up the draft board of course.

bajaden · Feb 5, 2009

I watched the Wake game. Wow, did they stink up the place. Agree with Nbrans about the zone, and their lack of ability to do anything about it. Teague didn't do anything to blow me away. But he was obviously the best player on the floor for Wake. I'm still not sold on his becoming a pt guard. I wish they would just let him run the point all the time. I don't see the point of having Smith out there stinking up the place.

Aminu was just terrible. Really needs to stay in school. He simply did nothing, and I mean nothing to help his team. At least Lawal will play defense and grab rebounds for you. Until he fouls out of course.

Here's the thing with Teague. You don't necessarily need a pass first pt guard if you put the right people around him. There in lies the problem. We don't know exactly what Petrie's vision for the team is. If its an attempt to duplicate the Kings of old, then Teague would fit nicely onto such a team. But if your going to fill out the roster with young unskilled players with great potenial for the future, then you need a real steady hand at the controls, and a player like Teague may not be the best fit.

nbrans · Feb 5, 2009

bajaden said:

Definitely agree with this. I think one of the hardest things about evaluating Teague is that he's surrounded with really dumb players. Smith has tunnel vision, Johnson can't decide if he wants to be a soft perimeter guy or a bruiser inside, Aminu is just completely lost at all times, Williams can't shoot. So is Teague being held back by not having anyone around him who knows what they're doing, or is he actually a large part of the problem himself? Can he fit into a different system where he's expected to be a facilitator or is he just limited to scoring?

It's so hard to tell because 1) they don't have him handling the ball enough and 2) he doesn't have anyone to pass to. When he drives, everyone stands around and watches. When they drive they never look to set him up.

bajaden · Feb 5, 2009

nbrans said:

Yeah, I wish right now, they could trade him to St Mary's while Mills is out so we could really get a read on him. I think this happens a lot because too many times a player is one and done in college. Similar to Holiday. He stays another year and he's the point guard. Rumors were that Bayless would have stayed another year at Arizona, but heard that Jennings was coming and decided to jump ship. Too bad, because I would have liked to see what he could do running the point all year. It is what it is.

nbrans · Feb 5, 2009

Temple/Xavier-

Dionte Christmas was quiet early, seemed to be a little bothered by Xavier's defense and was content to be a passer, which he's pretty good at. Finished with 9 assists. Lacks great quickness, but is able to get his shot off extremely quickly and is able to put the ball on the floor. His shot looked really off tonight though. He kind of sticks his elbow out a little when he shoots, but he has long arms and still has a pretty high release point. He wasn't hitting anything, but tried to make up for it by driving -- he's a really good finisher, but not terribly quick to the hoop. Xavier was really, really keying on him, and he was mostly content to draw the pressure and let the other guys on Temple score. Not a good game offensively at all, and a little disconcerting that he was so easily taken out of the game with just some solid man D.

B.J. Raymond was pretty much the only thing Xavier had going early, he was lighting it up from outside and playing really tough D on Dionte Christmas.

I'd put Derrick Brown's height at 6'6". He has long arms, he can shoot, and he has some good hops, but no way this is a power forward in the NBA, and he doesn't have the quickness to be a small forward.

Sarunas · Feb 5, 2009

Watched a good amount of the Oregon State/Arizona game:

I was watching this only because I just finished school at osu actually, so i like catching games when i can. Either way, i figured id also use it as a chance to continue our jordan hill watch. I'm sorry to all the fans of him, but I just do see him being worth our while. He didnt do a whole lot against a very undersized and unathletic osu frontline. I figured going into the game this would be the time when hill would dominate due to osu's below average post men, but he didnt show up too often. Had a nice dunk put back, and he definitely has the athleticisim, but i think that just shows hes more of a clean-up scorer rather than a guy you can pass it to in the post and let him go to work. There were parts of the game where I forgot he was playing, when this was a perfect opportunity for him to help his team by physically punishing a weak front line. I will give him a break on rebounding since osu plays a princeton offense with their center playing at the top of the key at all times, so hill wasnt near the basket a whole lot on D to snatch boards.
Then again, I see the potential and the things people like in him. He is athletic and plays with good intensity, and maybe he just had an off night. I just look for him to be more of a factor throughout the game since he has the size and ability to do so. I dont think there are many bigs in the country that can match him, so maybe as the season goes on he will see that and punish them, and I will have to bite my tongue. Either way, good solid big, i see the potential, but I think there are many others id rather have a this point, but its a long season ahead of us.

P.S. what has happened to the arizona basketball program? talk about a program slump. I know theyre not horrible but for the last couple years they have not been putting the high caliber players on the court (bayless, budinger excluded) like the zona teams of old. Not trying to get off topic, but they went from elite to pretty good in a short time, just curious if theres a reason behind it.

nbrans · Feb 5, 2009

Sarunas said:

They thought they were getting Brandon Jennings, but he bolted for Europe.

(also agree with you on Hill, though I didn't watch this one)

PurpleHaze · Feb 5, 2009

Sarunas said:

Weak recruitment of late after departure of Coach Lute Olsen. Also, before he finally departed for good he was in a long leave of absence situation due to divorce and heath issues. The guy just lost a lot of control over his decades long extremely tight and classy program it would seem at wrong time in highly competitive recruitment cycle. His assistant coaches (including then interim head coach) tried keep the usual UofA top basketball product on display but have tumbled a bit - maybe a lot to hardcore fans. Now those fans are clamoring for a new big name coach who can carry on the highly popular Lute (Mr Tucson) torch and tradition.

asakkings · Feb 5, 2009

what is everyone's opinion on BJ Mullins, I know some people say that he is very raw. I personanlly havent seen any of his games but saw highlights and he looked very athletic. NBAdraft.net had alot of good stuff to say about him. Is he worth a top 5 pick compared to Thabeet.

SacTownKid · Feb 5, 2009

asakkings said:

When he moves he looks like a guard. He's got very good body control and footwork for his size. Almost like a not out of control 7'1" version of Jason Thompson.

I think when he works out for teams and pulls out the between the legs dunk he's a safe bet to be a lotto pick, don't know about top 5 though.

nbrans · Feb 5, 2009

asakkings said:

Pros: really athletic, runs the floor, shows some developing offense, very coordinated catching and finishing
Cons: terrible defender, not a shotblocker, still pretty raw

I think his NBA comparison is Jeff Foster for now. If he continues to develop his offensive game he could be more, but he really, really needs to work on his defense.

Sarunas · Feb 6, 2009

I am actually starting to lean more toward Thabeet Griffin or Brackins in this draft. I'm starting to get excited thinking about the possibility of a kings team actually having a defensive presence down low, and a kings team that can out rebound other squads. If teague is there, id love to have him, and id also consider jennings, but after seeing the plethora of Pg's that are supposed to be declaring for next years draft, i wouldnt be too upset if we draft a big and just sign a solid free agent to hold down the pg spot for a year or two. i think holiday and kemba walker will be very very good after handling full time pg duties next season, and rubio and john wall(although i hate saying high schoolers are gonna be great until i see them) are entering, so we should have luck in '10 if not '09 at pg.

=LarryLegend= · Feb 6, 2009

Perfect Sactown draft night

Blake Griffin
Patty Mills or Darren Collison
Curtis Jerrells

Lookout for a Petrie sleeper pick - Omri Casspi

Capt. Factorial · Feb 6, 2009

=LarryLegend= said:

To add fuel to this fire, Casspi's agent is Jason Levien.

bajaden · Feb 6, 2009

nbrans said:

Wow Nbrans, you could be kinder than Jeff Foster. He doesn't look anything like Jeff Foster to me. Maybe Foster in current results, but not in appearance. To be honest, when I watched Foster, I never, never saw anyone that I thought could be a star someday. When I watch Mullens, I do. Doesn't mean he will be.

Another point I would like to make is, that everyone seems to keep pointing out how this player and that player are not very good defenders. The truth is, that its the exception for a player to come out of college and be a very good defender. There are a lot of good reasons for that, such as most programs relying on zone defense instead of man to man etc. It doesn't mean that they can't become good defenders in the NBA. The best you can do is look at a player and try to judge if he has the make up of a player that can develop into a good defender.

bajaden · Feb 6, 2009

I watched the Arizona St. game last night. I've been swayed of late by others critizism of Harden, so I tried to watch carefully for the things that have been pointed out to me. Sorry folks. Harden is probably the most NBA ready player coming out of college. Anyone who thinks he won't be able to score at the next level just isn't watching this guy objectively.

He's also more athletic than some are giving him credit for. I think what fools people is that he seems so unaggressive at times and he lulls you to sleep. Then at the end of the game Wa La, he's got 34 points 3 steals and 6 assists. He leads the Pac 10 in pts per game and in steals per game. He hardly ever makes mistakes on the floor. He never forces anything. Even when you see him drive into a crowd and think, Oh No! He makes a nice pass to a wide open player. He had a great flying dunk last night and a great layup where he drove to the basket through traffic and switched the ball from his left hand to his right in the air for the finish. For those who haven't seen him play, he's left handed. He's truely a player that lets the game come to him.

Kingster · Feb 6, 2009

bajaden said:

I would highly expect that Teague will have a skilled Hawes and Thompson to play with. Neither one needs a great distributor to be effective. And both should be better in the low post next year as well, making it even easier for the other players to get shots created from them. What I see with Teague is that he's deferring a lot, maybe because of his coach, or the other players, I don't know. I see him playing at about 80% of what he could really do out there, not because he's not willing to put in the effort, it's just that he's trying to be the team guy. The more I see him, the more I see his vast potential. He is now in a system that uses him like he's just like any other ol' player out there, when in fact he's a top 5 player in the country, in my book the #1 player. If they put him in a system centered more around him, then he could do incredible damage to the opposing team, and I think his team would be even better. I'd like to see him repeatedly in pick and roll situations. Think what Beno did when he was under Theus. Theus had him do it repeatedly, and it was pretty effective. Teague is Beno squared. Teague would be a terror in that kind of offense, and the opposing team would have to collapse so much on the guy that it would make his passing so much easier.

nbrans · Feb 6, 2009

bajaden said:

Well, conversely I'd say that sometimes when guys are athletic and raw in in college people get a little too excited about how good they'll end up being. Certainly Mullens has the potential to be better than Foster, but right now he's very much a similar type of player. He shows some developing offense, but like Foster he's a big athletic guy who is limited offensively and defensively. Can he get better? Sure. But he's extremely raw, and it's more than a little troubling to me that someone who is as big and athletic as he is is such a poor shotblocker.

I also take your point somewhat about defense translating to the NBA. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't, and defense in the NBA is as much about being either a sensational athlete or experienced and smart as it is about how good you were in college. But shotblocking is a skill, like shooting or passing, that is transferable. Mullens isn't showing it, and I think that's troubling.

This is a guy in my top 5, and I wouldn't have him there if I thought he would be only as good as Jeff Foster. But right now, barring substantial improvement, that's where I'd peg him.

Kingster · Feb 6, 2009

asakkings said:

He's just an athletic floater, not a BB player. Has a loooooooooong ways to go.

Kingster · Feb 6, 2009

bajaden said:

Ok. You're starting to sell me.

If he had a right hand, I'd put him above Teague, but he doesn't, so I won't. I liked the term Karl Malone used in a recent ESPN game - "destructive". Harden is definitely destructive. And Teague is destructive, and could be even more destructive in a better offense. Even though I've been down on Thabeet, he does have destructive potential on defense. This is my new category now for evaluating talent - destructive.

and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

All-Star

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Starter

All-Star

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Starter

All-Star

G-League

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

All-Star

Hall of Famer

All-Star

G-League

All-Star

All-Star

Bench

Hall of Famer

All-Star

G-League

Starter

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer

All-Star

Hall of Famer

Hall of Famer