Allen Iverson thread - DAY TWO
- Thread starter nbrans
- Start date
I think it's mainly that if the trade doesn't go down(and IMO trades don't usually go down) Ron didn't want his teammates pissed at him. What is he supposed to say if he pulls a KG and says "Oh yeah bring on AI bring on the Answer baby yeah (expletive) get him here (expletive) hellz yeah" but then a trade doesn't go through. That creates a rift in the lockerroom which he'd be blamed for and then somebody's definitely gotta be traded and it might be him. He had the perfect response IMO.
That's just one guy speculating, and not even very well since we KNOW that the Kings are in fact trying to get Iverson and have been at it for the last ocuple of days.
The Ron point is fair though -- I noted that quote too when he made it. Lukewarm at best, although maybe just a loyalty to teammates thing. In any case though given teh gambling owners wiht a desire to make a splash, John Salmons, he of the 6ppg career scoring average, feelings in the matter are hardly going to matter. And Kevin, well Kevin is in the midst of a seeming reality check. There is no way A.I. is good for him. But there is also no way Kevin is ready to put the team on his back. So as long as they do not actually trade him (barring Iggy of course), he's just going to have to wait.
In any case, clearly if any of the above were a major enoguh concern, we never enter into the talks in the first place, let alone emerge as a frontrunner.
The Ron point is fair though -- I noted that quote too when he made it. Lukewarm at best, although maybe just a loyalty to teammates thing. In any case though given teh gambling owners wiht a desire to make a splash, John Salmons, he of the 6ppg career scoring average, feelings in the matter are hardly going to matter. And Kevin, well Kevin is in the midst of a seeming reality check. There is no way A.I. is good for him. But there is also no way Kevin is ready to put the team on his back. So as long as they do not actually trade him (barring Iggy of course), he's just going to have to wait.
In any case, clearly if any of the above were a major enoguh concern, we never enter into the talks in the first place, let alone emerge as a frontrunner.
That's aprt fo the interesting subtext, and why it seems like 2/3 of the Kings roster has been mentioned at oen tiem or another. BOTH Kenny and Salmons disliked playing with Iverson (and at least in Salmons case, A.I. had complete disdain for him too). And yet here they are waiting. We've got a Philly fetish or some such -- ironic for me since I went to Penn and Philly is the East Coast team I have followed most closely. My two main teams keep dealing with each other. Soon the entire rosters will have swapped.
Martin actually does take a lot of shots
People mention Miller and Martin as players that don't need a lot of shots. I think the deceiving thing with Martin is his FT attempts. Pretend the ref swallowed the whistle and all of the sudden Martin is taking more shots. Miller on the other hand doesn't shoot many FTs, so it's a little more honest with him.
If we can get AI for Bibby and an expiring contract, you HAVE to do it. Even if you ditch him over the summer(is it possible to trade him in Feb?)
It's collecting hall of fame talent for a player who can't play defense and will likely opt out for a bunch of money.
People mention Miller and Martin as players that don't need a lot of shots. I think the deceiving thing with Martin is his FT attempts. Pretend the ref swallowed the whistle and all of the sudden Martin is taking more shots. Miller on the other hand doesn't shoot many FTs, so it's a little more honest with him.
If we can get AI for Bibby and an expiring contract, you HAVE to do it. Even if you ditch him over the summer(is it possible to trade him in Feb?)
It's collecting hall of fame talent for a player who can't play defense and will likely opt out for a bunch of money.
Y
Would the people here give up Kevin for Iggy, or am I the only one against that idea? 
I must say, Bibby hasn't exactly been a great asset to the team lately. He has been playing like he IS AI, just not as good. However, no good can come out of this AI<->Bibby trade if we don't get any front court help. AI is good, but we won't be getting anywhere without at least one solid backup PF/C. We need to get someone who can help inside in this deal. Otherwise, getting AI means nothing. That's right. I've said it. AI might be a HOFer, but at this point I'd rather gamble on more Shawn Kemp(whose return attempt to NBA apparently hasn't been so successful) than him for helping this team.
Neither Dalembert or Steven Hunter is a starter material, but either of them could give both Reef and Miller enough rest to focus more on their own games. I know, Reef and Miller are not a top quality defender, but their offensive abilities can at least buffer the damage done by the opponent's front court. The problem is when they are sitting on the bench. No member of our backup frontcourt has neither the defensive tenacity to fend off the opponents nor the offensive explosiveness to neutralize them. We either have to get a new starter, or at least a decent backup big man to guard the inside. Dalembert and Hunter might not be the perfect answer, but they will at least be an upgrade. However, to be honest, I'm not really sure Sixers would be so quick to part with either of them.
This might be a long shot, but I think we also have an option of waiting out this AI ruckus for the KG trade. If Wolves don't get AI, then I think it'd be only a matter of time before KG starts to demand a trade himself. Wolves are also a team who is not getting anywhere any time soon. KG will no doubt ask for a trade, only question being when. I would prefer to have KG in my lineup than AI. KG would at least be able to help Martin improve even further, not to mention ridding of our front court woes. I know, it's a long shot. But hoping that getting AI for Bibby would actually help this team right now would be an even longer shot.
Neither Dalembert or Steven Hunter is a starter material, but either of them could give both Reef and Miller enough rest to focus more on their own games. I know, Reef and Miller are not a top quality defender, but their offensive abilities can at least buffer the damage done by the opponent's front court. The problem is when they are sitting on the bench. No member of our backup frontcourt has neither the defensive tenacity to fend off the opponents nor the offensive explosiveness to neutralize them. We either have to get a new starter, or at least a decent backup big man to guard the inside. Dalembert and Hunter might not be the perfect answer, but they will at least be an upgrade. However, to be honest, I'm not really sure Sixers would be so quick to part with either of them.
This might be a long shot, but I think we also have an option of waiting out this AI ruckus for the KG trade. If Wolves don't get AI, then I think it'd be only a matter of time before KG starts to demand a trade himself. Wolves are also a team who is not getting anywhere any time soon. KG will no doubt ask for a trade, only question being when. I would prefer to have KG in my lineup than AI. KG would at least be able to help Martin improve even further, not to mention ridding of our front court woes. I know, it's a long shot. But hoping that getting AI for Bibby would actually help this team right now would be an even longer shot.
Would the people here give up Kevin for Iggy, or am I the only one against that idea?
Kevin has showed a lot more promise than Iggy. But that could be due to Iggy being on the same team Iverson. It we traded for AI it could be a reversal effect where Iggy blossoms with the Sixers and Kevin doesn't get enough shots.
If I wanted to win a title with A.I., and that is really the only point of this entire exercise, I would definitely consider moving Kevin for Iggy. Iggy does more for you wihtout the ball, and without the ball is the state that A.I's teamates perpetually exist in. Not at all sure I would do such a swap straight up in a vaccum witn no Iverson in the equation -- Kevin has shown some special scoring flashes. But once Iverson arrives in town, having offensive ability is roughly the least important characteristic a player can have. A.I. went to the Finals with a team that started:
Snow
A.I.
Lynch
Hill
Deke/Ratliff
Not a one of them could score 20pts if you locked them in a gym by themselves. Didn't matter. They did everythign else, A.I. did the scoring.
Snow
A.I.
Lynch
Hill
Deke/Ratliff
Not a one of them could score 20pts if you locked them in a gym by themselves. Didn't matter. They did everythign else, A.I. did the scoring.
And Petrie didnt even want to do that trade...The Maloofs did that one.
I've been a Petrie doubter for a few seasons now....I'm hoping AI doesnt end up here...Unless Petrie thinks AI will drag the Kings down like he did the 76ers thus giving us a chance at the number 1 pick in this draft so that he could pass up Oden and nab us another swingman.
I've been a Petrie doubter for a few seasons now....I'm hoping AI doesnt end up here...Unless Petrie thinks AI will drag the Kings down like he did the 76ers thus giving us a chance at the number 1 pick in this draft so that he could pass up Oden and nab us another swingman.
As opposed to the direct discusions of Bibby/Garcia/Corliss + #1 etc. which I understood, the above rumored structure made little sense to me until I realized that there was an x-factor here: Chris Webber. The Sixers want to jettison his contract too, and have been trying to ship him out along with Iverson. But at $40 mil combined salary, nobody bu the Knicks can take that, and nobody can/will give the Sixers what they want in return. Anyway, thgat's what got me thinking. 4th team is hard to account for, since I have no idea who it is. But of the principle 3 teams, what if the Sixers had found a way to move Webb's contract too? Something along these lines:
Clippers OUT:
Maggette ($7mil)
Livingston ($3.4mil)
+...$7mil in contracts to Philly
Clippers IN:
Iverson ($18.3mil)
Kings OUT:
Bibby ($12.5mil)
Thomas ($6.7mil)
Potapenko ($3.7mil)
Kings IN:
Webber ($20.7mil)
Livingston ($3.4mil)
Philly OUT:
Webber ($20.7mil)
Iverson ($18.3mil)
Philly IN:
Bibby ($12.5mil)
Maggette ($7.0mil)
Thomas ($6.7mil)
Potapenko ($3.7mil)
+ $7mil in contracts from Clippers
Just saying. We got into this thing for Iverson, so it seems unlikely we come out of it with Webb back of all things. But there is only one Iverson to go around, and the Kings and Clips can't both have him. So in a megadeal like that, could the Sixers be trying to sponsor a way to unload Webber to a familiar team? Are we high enough on Livingston to annoint him and Kevin the backcourt of the future?
Just seems too extreme, and those mega salaries force so many bodies to start flying around. But not sure how else to account for multiteam deals with only 1 A.I. unless the Sixers are trying to force Webb through the system.
Clippers OUT:
Maggette ($7mil)
Livingston ($3.4mil)
+...$7mil in contracts to Philly
Clippers IN:
Iverson ($18.3mil)
Kings OUT:
Bibby ($12.5mil)
Thomas ($6.7mil)
Potapenko ($3.7mil)
Kings IN:
Webber ($20.7mil)
Livingston ($3.4mil)
Philly OUT:
Webber ($20.7mil)
Iverson ($18.3mil)
Philly IN:
Bibby ($12.5mil)
Maggette ($7.0mil)
Thomas ($6.7mil)
Potapenko ($3.7mil)
+ $7mil in contracts from Clippers
Just saying. We got into this thing for Iverson, so it seems unlikely we come out of it with Webb back of all things. But there is only one Iverson to go around, and the Kings and Clips can't both have him. So in a megadeal like that, could the Sixers be trying to sponsor a way to unload Webber to a familiar team? Are we high enough on Livingston to annoint him and Kevin the backcourt of the future?
Just seems too extreme, and those mega salaries force so many bodies to start flying around. But not sure how else to account for multiteam deals with only 1 A.I. unless the Sixers are trying to force Webb through the system.
You know, once I got over that initial "hell no" reaction, it actually starts to look good. If Bibby's going to be a borderline all-star his whole career, why not bring in a younger, developing borderline all-star point guard for a lot less money and net a decent PF out of the deal too? I haven't seen Livingston play enough to know if he's the real deal or not. Webber's looked better lately. He's still a special player, just a lot more limited. I don't really even know any more. Just the thought of some kind of change seems exciting right now because the last Kings games I've tried to watch have been ugly, demoralizing, and practically unwatchable. Something's gotta give, one way or another. And to come out of this whole affair with the same team with the same problems might make things even worse.
Which is presumably why we'd keep him. Sixers are doing just fine in such a deal without that, and I would think moving KTs contract would be part of the appeal for us. Its basically a rebuilding plan.
In any case, sheerest speculation -- just trying to make things add up when presented wiht an incongruous 2+2 = 5 rumor.
In any case, sheerest speculation -- just trying to make things add up when presented wiht an incongruous 2+2 = 5 rumor.
Dang -- its crazy out there. Approaching 10:00 over here, and still no idea what's going to happen,
Who the favorite is seems to change hour to hour, teams who drop out hop back in, then back out, every analyst and rumor mongerer claims to ahve heard something different, sometimes its a two way, sometimes 3 or 4. Jeesh.
I truthfully have no idea if we'll get A.I. or not. Or even if that's a good thing or bad thing. As mentioned previously though, I think now we've kind of screwed ourselves and will have no choice but to trade Mike somewhere. And that whole trying to get focused as a team thing is probably out the window until we resolve it somehow. Not at all sure A.I. = title, but not getting him could be even messier and more painful in a "what now?" sort of way.
Who the favorite is seems to change hour to hour, teams who drop out hop back in, then back out, every analyst and rumor mongerer claims to ahve heard something different, sometimes its a two way, sometimes 3 or 4. Jeesh.
I truthfully have no idea if we'll get A.I. or not. Or even if that's a good thing or bad thing. As mentioned previously though, I think now we've kind of screwed ourselves and will have no choice but to trade Mike somewhere. And that whole trying to get focused as a team thing is probably out the window until we resolve it somehow. Not at all sure A.I. = title, but not getting him could be even messier and more painful in a "what now?" sort of way.
