All I Want is Defense

[rainmaker]

By jdbraver's theory, Karl actually should have asked to trade Payton because he was too big and Karl is a "small ball coach".

Yet Karl took advantage of what he had in Payton and used him as arguably the top post up PG in the league at that time. His pace in Sea?
16th
14th
3rd
3rd
16th
18th

Then with the Bucks with a Cassel/Allen backcourt, their pace ranked
22nd
16th
10th
17th
19th

went the Den, then
2nd
2nd
1st
6th
5th
2nd

So Karl himself has adapted his style to his roster at every stop. From year to year he's constantly tweaked his style. No GM has ever just given him small ball players because he's a "small ball" coach. That's just foolish. The question is why he isn't adapting now or at least held off on it until Rondo/Cuz had a word with him. Stubborn? Ideology? Stuck in his ways? Less desire at his last stop? Who knows. But this roster is nothing like his Den roster.

 

[jdbraver]

I know this is quite complicated for you but that's not how it works. A GM's job is to but together the best roster he can and Vlade did a pretty good job upgrading this roster. It is then the coach's job to use the roster to the best of its abilities.

And Karl has failed there and anyone who knows what they're watching sees the glaring mistakes.

Because I disagree with you that makes me unable to comprehend. Hmmmm. Are you Donald trump? Frankly I think you are just wrong. but hey if putting others down makes you feel superior...

 

[jdbraver]

By jdbraver's theory, Karl actually should have asked to trade Payton because he was too big and Karl is a "small ball coach".

Yet Karl took advantage of what he had in Payton and used him as arguably the top post up PG in the league at that time. His pace in Sea?
16th
14th
3rd
3rd
16th
18th

Then with the Bucks with a Cassel/Allen backcourt, their pace ranked
22nd
16th
10th
17th
19th

went the Den, then
2nd
2nd
1st
6th
5th
2nd

So Karl himself has adapted his style to his roster at every stop. From year to year he's constantly tweaked his style. No GM has ever just given him small ball players because he's a "small ball" coach. That's just foolish. The question is why he isn't adapting now or at least held off on it until Rondo/Cuz had a word with him. Stubborn? Ideology? Stuck in his ways? Less desire at his last stop? Who knows. But this roster is nothing like his Den roster.

And did the owners of those teams insist on small ball

 

[peacelate]

And did the owners of those teams insist on small ball

So Vivek is the one telling Karl to play a certain way? Karl is an arrogant coach, and not likely he would take orders from anybody above him.

 

[jdbraver]

I would if he didn't have the personnel to get it done and wasn't willing to try something different. You seem to think coaches can only coach ONE STYLE of play and that's just dumb. And it's pretty insulting to the coaches.

If George Karl can't figure out the best way to utilize the players he has right now, he need to hang up his sneakers and play NBA2K16 to his heart's content.

Karl isn't to blame for all the team's woes, but he's definitely a part of them.

Umm no it's not dumb. Do u honestly think Phil Jackson would just change from the triangle. That's just dumb

 

[jdbraver]

So Vivek is the one telling Karl to play a certain way? Karl is an arrogant coach, and not likely he would take orders from anybody above him.

Hello where have u been

 

[jdbraver]

Hello where have u been

Give me millions per ye I'll do whatever

 

[jdbraver]

By jdbraver's theory, Karl actually should have asked to trade Payton because he was too big and Karl is a "small ball coach".

Yet Karl took advantage of what he had in Payton and used him as arguably the top post up PG in the league at that time. His pace in Sea?
16th
14th
3rd
3rd
16th
18th

Then with the Bucks with a Cassel/Allen backcourt, their pace ranked
22nd
16th
10th
17th
19th

went the Den, then
2nd
2nd
1st
6th
5th
2nd

So Karl himself has adapted his style to his roster at every stop. From year to year he's constantly tweaked his style. No GM has ever just given him small ball players because he's a "small ball" coach. That's just foolish. The question is why he isn't adapting now or at least held off on it until Rondo/Cuz had a word with him. Stubborn? Ideology? Stuck in his ways? Less desire at his last stop? Who knows. But this roster is nothing like his Den roster.

Umm so if he adapts maybe his bosses are the problem.Does the buck stop with Karl?

 

[Bricklayer]

Umm so if he adapts maybe his bosses are the problem.Does the buck stop with Karl?

Or maybe he just got old.

Those of us who have been around a bit remember very well the arrival of Dick Motta, a 700-800 win 20 year veteran type coach at the time, who was coming off a long stint nurturing the Dallas Mavericks, and had previously won a title with the Washington Bullets. An old ball coach that was oddly out there and available, which was strange given his resume. Then we hired him and found out why.

Lenny Wilkens was just wasting time in his last stops.

Rick Adelman just had limited impact and energy by the time he hit Minnesota.

There comes a time with coaches like everyone else. And George Karl has earned jack and squat in Sacramento. He makes it work, with OUR personnel, or we can him and end his career. Those are his choices. The question is if he cares about the answer.

 

[EIM86]

I hate to say it but.... we're not gonna be good enough this season to make playoffs. Hopefully I jinxed myself muhaha.

 

[jdbraver]

Or maybe he just got old.

Those of us who have been around a bit remember very well the arrival of Dick Motta, a 700-800 win 20 year veteran type coach at the time, who was coming off a long stint nurturing the Dallas Mavericks, and had previously won a title with the Washington Bullets. An old ball coach that was oddly out there and available, which was strange given his resume. Then we hired him and found out why.

Lenny Wilkens was just wasting time in his last stops.

Rick Adelman just had limited impact and energy by the time he hit Minnesota.

There comes a time with coaches like everyone else. And George Karl has earned jack and squat in Sacramento. He makes it work, with OUR personnel, or we can him and end his career. Those are his choices. The question is if he cares about the answer.

And whose fault is it he got such a huge contract? Vivek. Who continues this cluster of terrible fits. Vivek. Not Karl. Karl is getting his old ass paid and you would do the same damn thing.

 

[bajaden]

By jdbraver's theory, Karl actually should have asked to trade Payton because he was too big and Karl is a "small ball coach".

Yet Karl took advantage of what he had in Payton and used him as arguably the top post up PG in the league at that time. His pace in Sea?
16th
14th
3rd
3rd
16th
18th

Then with the Bucks with a Cassel/Allen backcourt, their pace ranked
22nd
16th
10th
17th
19th

went the Den, then
2nd
2nd
1st
6th
5th
2nd

So Karl himself has adapted his style to his roster at every stop. From year to year he's constantly tweaked his style. No GM has ever just given him small ball players because he's a "small ball" coach. That's just foolish. The question is why he isn't adapting now or at least held off on it until Rondo/Cuz had a word with him. Stubborn? Ideology? Stuck in his ways? Less desire at his last stop? Who knows. But this roster is nothing like his Den roster.

I think Karl is prone to play who he thinks are his best players, regardless of size. Now we can have a discussion over whether he's made good choices in that regard, but in the end, I think that's what guides him. On paper, Collison and Rondo on the floor together, despite the obvious weaknesses of that, looks better than Rondo and McLemore on the floor together. But on reality, it hasn't turned out that way. Problem is, Rondo and McLemore together isn't a world beater either. In my humble opinion, we don't have a legit NBA starting SG on our team.

In short, I agree with your premise. I suspect that Karl would agree as well. It appears that Curry might be able to help in that area, and it's a shame he didn't get a chance earlier. But Curry isn't the final answer. He's not quite a SG and not quite a PG. Not to say there isn't a place for a player like him on the team, but we still need a two way player at the SG position, and right now, I don't think McLemore is it. Most of his problems are between his ears, and long term, that can be the biggest problem of all.

One of my concerns is Rudy Gay. Except for a couple of games, his defense has been terrible. Players are going around him at will. He forgets to rotate back at times. Three times in the last game when defending the pick and roll, both Gay and McLemore ended up guarding the same player at the same time. It was a mistake on Ben's part once, and Rudy's part twice. Those things are caused by lack of communication, and lack of BBIQ. Or both! Collison is a very good defender when he applies himself, but too often, he just floats. Rondo puts out the effort, but he's having trouble fighting through screens. Bottom line is, our perimeter defense has been atrocious. From a defensive point of view alone, Tyreke would look real good right now.

 

[VF21]

Because I disagree with you that makes me unable to comprehend. Hmmmm. Are you Donald trump? Frankly I think you are just wrong. but hey if putting others down makes you feel superior...

MOD VOICE: Keep the political references out. Thanks.

 

[dude12]

Anybody who thinks George Karl's coaching decisions and overall job as being "good" this year is in denial or has an axe to grind with Cousins or Vivek or Vlade. Part of the blame needs to go to the players as their effort level in some games has been less than stellar but:

1. Karl slept walk thru the first part of the season until the Cousins blowup
2. Karl's defensive philosophy is a big reason we are at the record we are at.
3. Karl's stubbornness to keep playing that damn 3 guard lineup is just not working
4. He doesn't take advantage of the rosters strength....no adjustment
5. Complains about player defense then puts out poor defensive lineups
6. Situational substitution has been non-existant
7. Believes that good offense will lead to good defense..... Just ****ing moronic
8. I think he doesn't have the energy or will to hold players accountable

All of this doesn't make up for any offensive gains this team has made....not when you give up 115 a game

 

[peacelate]

And whose fault is it he got such a huge contract? Vivek. Who continues this cluster of terrible fits. Vivek. Not Karl. Karl is getting his old ass paid and you would do the same damn thing.

What? Why did Karl come back if he just wants a paycheck? Does he not have any pride left that he's indifferent to seeing his team lose on a nightly basis?

If Karl's heart is not longer in the game, he bears a large burden for how this team is playing.

 

[VF21]

What? Why did Karl come back if he just wants a paycheck? Does he not have any pride left that he's indifferent to seeing his team lose on a nightly basis?

If Karl's heart is not longer in the game, he bears a large burden for how this team is playing.

Spot on. And that's where the Karl apologist argument falls apart.

George Karl took the Kings job to try and cement his legacy, not bulldoze it. He's not a stupid man. I still truly believe he's capable of adapting his style to fit our current roster. IMHO it's been his pride and ego that has kept him from doing so already.

 

[jdbraver]

Spot on. And that's where the Karl apologist argument falls apart.

George Karl took the Kings job to try and cement his legacy, not bulldoze it. He's not a stupid man. I still truly believe he's capable of adapting his style to fit our current roster. IMHO it's been his pride and ego that has kept him from doing so already.

More like Viveks pride but whatever

 

[peacelate]

More like Viveks pride but whatever

Karl isn't some yes man. Remember how he spent the offseason trying to get Cousins traded?

 

[jdbraver]

Karl isn't some yes man. Remember how he spent the offseason trying to get Cousins traded?

And he got what he wanted?

 

[peacelate]

And he got what he wanted?

No, but it just goes to show you Karl doesn't take orders, which is why he wanted the star player traded when the owner and GM didn't.

 

[Bricklayer]

After tonight we should be up to 109.3pts against, passing the Pelicans (who oddly are also vastly disappointing) for most points against in the NBA.

 

[dude12]

After tonight we should be up to 109.3pts against, passing the Pelicans (who oddly are also vastly disappointing) for most points against in the NBA.

It's pathetic.....George has his head up his ass.

 

[PurpleHaze]

OKC highest output this season is 125 and in an overtime contest 139 - gulp!

 

[jdbraver]

No, but it just goes to show you Karl doesn't take orders, which is why he wanted the star player traded when the owner and GM didn't.

Well he sure did a 180 on trading cousins rhetoric didn't he?

 

[VF21]

More like Viveks pride but whatever

No, Karl's pride...the same pride that had him all over social media this past summer, manipulating the media and a lot of fans, convinced that he would be able to get what he wanted. And, like a lot of other fans, I bought in - partially because he is going to be in the hall of fame and partially because I would have taken Bozo the One-Legged Monkey at that point if it meant ridding our team of Ty Corbin.

There were some around here - Bricklayer immediately comes to mind but there were others - who were adamant that George Karl might not be the answer to all our prayers and we should be very careful what we wished for. You have no idea how much this hurts to say, but just about every negative prediction Brick made about how badly Karl could mismanage DMC and the rest of the Kings has already come to pass.

If any other head coach was making some of the bonehead mistakes currently being made by George Karl, he'd be pilloried in a heartbeat but he has, IMMHO, been given way too much credit for past accomplishments. Our team is a hot mess, and George Karl absolutely MUST be held responsible at least in part. I'd rather see Reggie Theus back at this point...

 

[peacelate]

Well he sure did a 180 on trading cousins rhetoric didn't he?

I think he's given up rather than listen to his boss. Like you said, Karl is here just to collect a paycheck.

 

[Showtime]

After tonight we should be up to 109.3pts against, passing the Pelicans (who oddly are also vastly disappointing) for most points against in the NBA.

I've been a broken record on this point since they've hired Karl and started the discussion on small-ball and pacing: this team's strengths and weaknesses do NOT support the philosophy of small-ball or faced-paced basketball. Why?

Strengths: Since DMC has been on the team, they've had the potential for the league's most imposing frontline. Whether it was alongside Dalembert, Whiteside, JT, Gray, Evans, Hayes, etc they've proven to control the glass with their physical play up front. This has lead to a couple of positives: rebounding (especially DMC's offensive rebounding), the ability to get opposing frontline players in foul trouble, and along with that the entire team in the penalty.

Weaknesses: this team has been horrible at defending the deep shot for years. High paced, high volume deep shooting teams have killed the kings.

So what does this mean? Well, if one has the best low post player in the game, the potential to out-muscle most teams on a nightly basis by pairing DMC with a quality PF/C, and the team sucks at defending the 3, then it stands to reason a major strategy would be to slow the pace, grind out the halfcourt, control the glass, and therefore lessen the possessions for opponents and thus limit the impact of good 3 point shooting teams. And that is what was happening under Malone last year before DMC got hurt. And guess what? They were winning games at a decent pace.

And what are they doing this season? They are 2nd in pace (99.8) with 1st being the suns at 100. SECOND! They should be aiming for last with this team! Guess what else? Along with the suns, they are tied for allowing the best eFG% in the entire league at .526. What else is happening when they abandon inside play? They don't get to the line as much. They have a .210 FT/FGA ratio (16th), and in 2014 that was .251 which was 3rd best in the league. "But their defense sucks so they can't stop anybody! That's what matters!" Which is precisely why the entire team strategy should be about playing to the strengths and not the weaknesses of a team. If a team has a huge advantage inside, can pressure teams by drawing fouls and they can't defend jack, then play a slow paced, grinding style. Don't play uptempo and have your superstar C shooting 5 3's a game!

 

[Albatros]

Were you not around when Malone was here?

Yes I was. I watched every single Kings game under him and I remember them very well. We were not a good defensive team in any sense of the word under him.

unless of course were forgetting his whole time here and not just picking on a few games at the start of last season.

Again is Malone a better coach for this team? Yes, do I wish Malone was coach, yes, very much so. But I'm not putting rose tinters on.

 

[Albatros]

He's questioning Malones defense than I'll jump to a conclusion that
A. He wasn't around
B. he hates defense and wants the fast pace nonsense.

lol what are you on about, I think maybe you should go back and actually watch some games under Malone, you do know he was coaching us before the start of last season, oh and those games also included a 26 point turnaround against the grizz and absolutely every team throwing the zone at us which Malone simply couldn't figure out how to tackle.

One of our main issues right now is not being able to defend the three point line, we were bottom of the league in that under malone by the way.

 

[dude12]

In the Sac Bee there was an article in the NBA roundup talking about how Isaiah Thomas has become a respectable defensive player. IT gave credit to Brad Steven' defensive philosophy and schemes.

There you go. If Coach Steven's can help turn IT into a good defender, then what the hell George?