All I Want is Defense

[miltonap]

If defense wins games than the stat (which for some strange reason you hate) that measure it is quite important... nothing gimmicky about this stat either, just the amount of points your opponent scored adjusted for pace.
And since I also put up the stats regarding the team's state before Cousins got sick I'm not sure how that is in any way "asinine" (and while we're at it, it's a little asinine to only mention Cousins games out last year but not this year).



That is no doubt true, and I don't think anyone will claim this team has played better defense under Karl... but like Capt said, this team was nothing more than average all the way through Malone's tenure.... and while average is far better than terrible (I'll gladly take an average defense right now), we should remember things as they really were.

I liked Malone, I think it was a huge mistake to fire him (more about his relationship with Cousins for me than about X's and O's) and I'd much rather have him over Karl... but let's not get carried away about how good a defense we played under him.

For the personnel we had, I thought it was pretty damn good

 

[jdbraver]

George Karl's doesn't know what defense is, doesn't care about it enough, his defensive philosophy isn't working.

Ask Gary Payton

 

[kingsboi]

I remember when heart and hustle used to be part of the game and defense would come along with it. I'm not referencing to this team of course because they haven't known anything else but offense and that stems from the very top of the food chain and will remain to be the case until proven otherwise. I can bring up a team that might surprise you in terms of defensive efficiency....that would be Orlando Magic. They don't really have any defenders that stand out besides possibly Payton...all the other players though? they finally have bought in to what coach Skiles is working and in the process have a winning record for the first time since the Dwight era.

 

[dude12]

Ask Gary Payton

I don't need to...I watch the Kings and there's my proof....you should try watching the games.

 

[peacelate]

Ask Gary Payton

Has Karl shown any sign this year that he can make in-game adjustments when this team is being abused on defense? It seems his only adjustment on defense is to go smaller, which only makes our defense worse.

 

[jdbraver]

Has Karl shown any sign this year that he can make in-game adjustments when this team is being abused on defense? It seems his only adjustment on defense is to go smaller, which only makes our defense worse.

You guys are clueless Karl had all his authority taken away. Vlade and Vivek won't let him discipline anybody see the cousins suspension debacle. Please tell me you don't agree with what grant said that Vlade and Karl had a mutual decision after their meeting. The players are not giving effort. Sorry but if they aren't gonna give effort and the coach has no power nothing will get better.

 

[IfAt1st]

Karl is the ONLY person who has authority over the lineups, substitutions, playcalls, defensive schemes, offensive playsets, timeouts, talking to the refs and getting ANY respect, training and video sessions, practices, speeches... need I go on?

Or do you think all that amounts to no authority, and you just want to blame the players?

 

[mac]

That definitely is jumping to conclusions.

Although Malone had our opponent FG% at .439 in his second year here (which would have been good for a tie for 6-8th at the end of the season), the FG% over Malone's tenure here - which was the stated term - was .456 (league average over that time, .451). So the statement was correct.

Malone was probably the best press-conference defensive coach I've ever seen. He talked a real good game. But the elephant in the room is that his results aren't really there. In his first season as coach, the Kings were 23rd in DRating. So far in his third season as coach, the Nuggets are 25th in DRating. He had very good results over a partial season during his second season (can't go back to see what the DRating was when he was fired, but given the FG% it was probably between 5-10). Does this mean that it takes his teams a full year to learn his defense (and that they immediately forgot it once he left), or was there possibly a small sample size effect going on in the 2014-2015 season? Time will give us a better answer on this, but so far the lionization of Malone is based on a 24-game sample. Based on a 24-game sample, Jeremy Lin was once one of the best players in the NBA. I think it's a bit presumptuous to accuse somebody of "hating defense" when all they really did was question an assertion that stands on pretty shaky statistical ground to start with.

I want to like this post 100x.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

You guys are clueless Karl had all his authority taken away. Vlade and Vivek won't let him discipline anybody see the cousins suspension debacle. Please tell me you don't agree with what grant said that Vlade and Karl had a mutual decision after their meeting. The players are not giving effort. Sorry but if they aren't gonna give effort and the coach has no power nothing will get better.

Karl having authority to discipline has between little and nothing to do with it. In fact Karl suspending players would likely backfire to even more dysfunction.

And it's not as simple as players not giving effort. It's defensive strategy. And that does fall on Karl.

All season there has been an odd zone used where perimeter players sag off their perimeter opponents to 'help out' the interior D which is already solid. our perimeter players are assigned to empty space, halfway guarding their perimeter opponent and halfway in the paint where they don't belong.

There was finally a break from this nonsense against the Mavs, we generally played common-sense man defense and won. The end result was that our perimeter players actually guarded the perimeter. Go figure.

 

[jdbraver]

Karl having authority to discipline has between little and nothing to do with it. In fact Karl suspending players would likely backfire to even more dysfunction.

And it's not as simple as players not giving effort. It's defensive strategy. And that does fall on Karl.

All season there has been an odd zone used where perimeter players sag off their perimeter opponents to 'help out' the interior D which is already solid. our perimeter players are assigned to empty space, halfway guarding their perimeter opponent and halfway in the paint where they don't belong.

There was finally a break from this nonsense against the Mavs, we generally played common-sense man defense and won. The end result was that our perimeter players actually guarded the perimeter. Go figure.

I like how u pick and choose wins. Sorry but Rudy getting beat man to man and not communicating switches should have been taught in HS.

 

[upinsmoke]

If this team stinks in that new arena the minority owners are going to be PISSED.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

I like how u pick and choose wins. Sorry but Rudy getting beat man to man and not communicating switches should have been taught in HS.

So you think it's not Karl's fault and he should have more power. Anyone who thinks Karl is significantly to blame is "clueless" as you said. And Karl should be suspending players, 'disciplining' them to teach them a lesson.

And Rudy needs to go back to his high school to learn how to play defense.

Interesting take.

 

[jdbraver]

So you think it's not Karl's fault and he should have more power. Anyone who thinks Karl is significantly to blame is "clueless" as you said. And Karl should be suspending players, 'disciplining' them to teach them a lesson.

And Rudy needs to go back to his high school to learn how to play defense.

Interesting take.

Pretty much he is the head coach you know. And yes he should be able to discipline them. But no I said Rudy should have learned how to play defense in HS and I'm sure he did he just isn't giving effort. What do you think a coach should be able to do...Suggest to the players that they play well but have no authority?

But if all you want to do is blame coach after coach and ignore the real problem go ahead.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

Pretty much he is the head coach you know. And yes he should be able to discipline them. But no I said Rudy should have learned how to play defense in HS and I'm sure he did he just isn't giving effort. What do you think a coach should be able to do...Suggest to the players that they play well but have no authority?

But if all you want to do is blame coach after coach and ignore the real problem go ahead.

I suggest they generally keep perimeter players guarding the perimeter, plain and simple. Stop pulling them into the paint because it's not working.

It's not as simple as them being lazy day-in and day-out.

 

[Bricklayer]

If this team stinks in that new arena the minority owners are going to be PISSED.

And still powerless.

 

[CruzDude]

With rare exception, all replies so far have hit the nail squarely. Along with my bud baja we are fed up at the total lack of defense and Karls use of DC and lack of consistency.

Maybe Karl really doesn't know how to teach defense. Forget last year, it is dead and gone and we can't get it back. Something is wrong from the top down. Maybe Vlade is being too nice?

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

But if all you want to do is blame coach after coach and ignore the real problem go ahead.

So if all I want to do is blame coach after coach (Please find where I said that), and ignore the real problem (Karl should have more power and suspend our players because they are just so lazy).

 

[gunks]

I wonder if there are any good defensive coaches out there who could be an assistant coach here.

Diamond in the rough types.

Maybe we don't need to fire Karl, but we do need someone on the staff to figure out the defensive end for us.

 

[peacelate]

You guys are clueless Karl had all his authority taken away. Vlade and Vivek won't let him discipline anybody see the cousins suspension debacle. Please tell me you don't agree with what grant said that Vlade and Karl had a mutual decision after their meeting. The players are not giving effort. Sorry but if they aren't gonna give effort and the coach has no power nothing will get better.

Coaches can't just suspend players. It's up to the GM and it's always been like that. When Karl wanted to trade Cousins, should Vlade have relented and said, "OK you're the boss. Anything for you coach."

 

[jdbraver]

So if all I want to do is blame coach after coach (Please find where I said that), and ignore the real problem (Karl should have more power and suspend our players because they are just so lazy).

Other than rondo which player has been a key contributor to a winning team? Now name the coaches on our staff that have contributed to a winning team. End of story.

 

[jdbraver]

Coaches can't just suspend players. It's up to the GM and it's always been like that. When Karl wanted to trade Cousins, should Vlade have relented and said, "OK you're the boss. Anything for you coach."

If Vlade is set in Karl which he sure sounds to be or atleast Vivek tells him to be then yes get him the players he needs to win. Don't blame Karl for being given a roster that doesn't fit what he needs to win. The problem is Vivek and Vlade.

 

[peacelate]

If Vlade is set in Karl which he sure sounds to be or atleast Vivek tells him to be then yes get him the players he needs to win. Don't blame Karl for being given a roster that doesn't fit what he needs to win. The problem is Vivek and Vlade.

Then was the heck is a GM's job? To be the coaches assistant?

I can certainly blame Karl because he refuses to make proper in-game adjustments to put this team in position to win.

 

[jdbraver]

Then was the heck is a GM's job? To be the coaches assistant?

I can certainly blame Karl because he refuses to make proper in-game adjustments to put this team in position to win.

Well normally the GM picks the coach that he wants to fit a style he wants and then gets that coach the players he needs. However Karl was pre Vlade but Vlade and Vivek both swear Karl is their man. If that's the case get him the players that fits his style. It sure isn't Karla fault that his bosses insist on one style of play but get him players for a completely different style.

 

[VF21]

I wonder if there are any good defensive coaches out there who could be an assistant coach here.

Diamond in the rough types.

Maybe we don't need to fire Karl, but we do need someone on the staff to figure out the defensive end for us.

...Doug Christie...

 

[VF21]

Well normally the GM picks the coach that he wants to fit a style he wants and then gets that coach the players he needs. However Karl was pre Vlade but Vlade and Vivek both swear Karl is their man. If that's the case get him the players that fits his style. It sure isn't Karla fault that his bosses insist on one style of play but get him players for a completely different style.

A Hall of Fame coach should be able to adapt his "style" to best utilize the talent he has at any given point in time.

 

[peacelate]

Well normally the GM picks the coach that he wants to fit a style he wants and then gets that coach the players he needs. However Karl was pre Vlade but Vlade and Vivek both swear Karl is their man. If that's the case get him the players that fits his style. It sure isn't Karla fault that his bosses insist on one style of play but get him players for a completely different style.

So you prefer Karl's brand f small-ball defense? Like I said, Vlade can't control how Karl uses the players. If the team is hurting defensively, Karl looks down the bench and calls Acy's number or puts Gay at PF thinking that will solve the problem. Karl's answer to lack of defense is more offense.

 

[jdbraver]

A Hall of Fame coach should be able to adapt his "style" to best utilize the talent he has at any given point in time.

Umm no.
Would you hire Phil Jackson and yell at him when he insists on the triangle?

 

[jdbraver]

So you prefer Karl's brand f small-ball defense? Like I said, Vlade can't control how Karl uses the players. If the team is hurting defensively, Karl looks down the bench and calls Acy's number or puts Gay at PF thinking that will solve the problem. Karl's answer to lack of defense is more offense.

If Karl is your coach yes I do. It sure as hell isn't Karl's fault when he is a small ball guy and you insist he use a bunch of non small ball players. Especially when the front office favors the players attitudes above the coaches ability to manage players.

 

[VF21]

Umm no.
Would you hire Phil Jackson and yell at him when he insists on the triangle?

I would if he didn't have the personnel to get it done and wasn't willing to try something different. You seem to think coaches can only coach ONE STYLE of play and that's just dumb. And it's pretty insulting to the coaches.

If George Karl can't figure out the best way to utilize the players he has right now, he need to hang up his sneakers and play NBA2K16 to his heart's content.

Karl isn't to blame for all the team's woes, but he's definitely a part of them.

 

[rainmaker]

Well normally the GM picks the coach that he wants to fit a style he wants and then gets that coach the players he needs. However Karl was pre Vlade but Vlade and Vivek both swear Karl is their man. If that's the case get him the players that fits his style. It sure isn't Karla fault that his bosses insist on one style of play but get him players for a completely different style.

I know this is quite complicated for you but that's not how it works. A GM's job is to but together the best roster he can and Vlade did a pretty good job upgrading this roster. It is then the coach's job to use the roster to the best of its abilities.

And Karl has failed there and anyone who knows what they're watching sees the glaring mistakes.