A little bit more on the Jason Hart trade

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't think I ever intended to suggest that Kings + SAR = championship, I just think that it was the only feasible offseason move that would give the Kings a shot, however small. I think that adding a borderline All-Star caliber forward for virtually nothing would have vaulted the Kings up a notch, and who knows, with the right chemistry, a catastrophic injury to Tim Duncan and a few lucky bounces the Kings might have sniffed a championship...

That's an incredibly... optimistic way of looking at things...

... I just think SAR would have been a very good fit for the Kings. He's a good passer, a good team player, a good low-post scorer, a good rebounder, and a decent-not-great defender...

No offense, nbrans, but you sound like his agent. I'm inclined to believe that your opinion of his abilities is somewhat more generous than the average basketball fan.

... The fact that the Kings didn't pick him up in the offseason means they lost basically one of only two opportunities they had (Cuttino for Nene being the other) to appreciably improve...

That remains to be seen; I don't have the blind faith in Petrie that some people have around here, but I'll wait to see whether or not he can move any of these contracts he was so desperate to trade Webber for before I say that we can't do any better than Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Because, as far as I'm concerned, if the best that we could have done with Thomas, Williamson and/or Skinner was a sign-and-trade for Shareef Abdur-Rahim, then he made a bad trade.

So ultimately, my point is that losing SAR is the difference between the Kings possibly maybe somehow getting in the general vicinity of the championship trophy and being solidly in the second tier, which is where they are now.

The only way that Shareef Abdur-Rahim would have put this team, barring any further improvement, in the general vicinity of the Championship Trophy would be if he bought the entire team front-row tickets to the Finals.

On a team like the Kings, I just don't think it makes sense to pass up a 7 for a 5, even if that 5 is a good rebounder (and 5 is extreeeeemely generous for Evans). As you've said, the Kings don't have a superstar, they rely on ball movement for their offense so someone who can't pass will kill the offense, and they need a talent boost. Better to get multitalented players at every position and hope for the best.

Well then, maybe it's time to try a new offense.

 

[thesanityannex]

The only way that Shareef Abdur-Rahim would have put this team, barring any further improvement, in the general vicinity of the Championship Trophy would be if he bought the entire team front-row tickets to the Finals.

And we have a WINNER. Mr. Slim, Congrats on your thread.

 

[nbrans]

The only way that Shareef Abdur-Rahim would have put this team, barring any further improvement, in the general vicinity of the Championship Trophy would be if he bought the entire team front-row tickets to the Finals.

I guess you'd rather have Kenny Thomas foot the bill... why else would you object to signing the best PF available this offseason?

 

[VF21]

Small correction: SAR may or may not be the best PF available this offseason THROUGH FREE AGENCY. That is a very important phrase to keep in mind.

 

[nbrans]

Small correction: SAR may or may not be the best PF available this offseason THROUGH FREE AGENCY. That is a very important phrase to keep in mind.

I stand by my statement that SAR is/was the best PF available, period, without trading Bibby, Peja or Miller.

If Petrie swings a trade for a better PF without trading the core then I will be very, very happily wrong.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

What difference does it make if we trade some of our "core?" Our "core" isn't a championship core, anyway. If Petrie can trade the hand-me-downs we got for Webber, and one of our "core" for a real PF, we'll still be further ahead..

 

[VF21]

I stand by my statement that SAR is/was the best PF available, period, without trading Bibby, Peja or Miller.

If Petrie swings a trade for a better PF without trading the core then I will be very, very happily wrong.

"...without trading Bibby, Peja or Miller" is a pretty big proviso. And it negates your previous comment.

You might also want to check the NBA forum. Apparently, SAR may not be going anywhere. There may be a problem with him passing a physical.

 

[VF21]

I would also strongly advise people not to get too fond of the idea of the "core." Think about an apple. After you eat it, what do you throw away?

 

[Kings113]

I agree with the assessment of SAR as a 7. And no, he's not going to make anyone a contender by himself, but he's not going out on the court by himself, there are other very good players around him.

Thankfully that point I raised does not in fact happen very often because all of the GMs in the NBA besides Babcock and Isiah are smarter than the average message board. My basic point is just that if you're only looking at one characteristic when assessing a player, in this case defense, you're going to miss out on the overall picture of what a player brings. There are many other things to assess. People can be single-minded about one thing on this board to the point that they convince themselves that bringing in Player A who is good at one thing (say, rebounding) is going to solve all of the Kings' problems, even if Player B is a vastly better player.

I'm totally with you on Bibby, agree 100%.

Of course that's the Buckner/McGrady example is ridiculous, that was my point. I would argue that people saying "Evans over SAR" isn't far off on the ridiculous scale.

Exhibit A on this board overvaluing toughness over ability:



The defense rests.

"At what he brings". As in those areas, not as a general player. Evans has plenty of ability on the glass and around the rim.

We have and will have plenty of offense on the roster, that's why I and a bunch of others put Evans/Griffin/Chandler/Nene ahead of Walker and SAR (SAR to a lesser degree though). They're in the area of good, but aren't really what the Kings need and are aspiring for (in realistic terms as of today).

Doesn't matter anyways now, they're off the market.

 

[Kings113]

What else can Evans do besides rebound, besides the basics ie: talking, brushing his teeth, dressing himself, eating etc.

He hustles, plays dirty, and is tough. Consistently. I'd love to see that brought on the Kings in any slot. Any team would.

Who knows maybe he's working on some offense over the summer, and if he came to Kings, I bet he'd get help from the staff on some offense.

 

[thesanityannex]

He hustles, plays dirty, and is tough. Consistently. I'd love to see that brought on the Kings in any slot. Any team would.

Who knows maybe he's working on some offense over the summer, and if he came to Kings, I bet he'd get help from the staff on some offense.

Rebounding=Hustle/Dirty Play/Toughness

What else can Evans do besides rebound?

 

[Kings113]

He does it in more ways than just rebounding, as that isn't the only thing in basketball that involves those attributes.

Even if that's all he did is HIS rebounding, and didn't change much in the offensive area from last season, I'd def. put him ahead of Walker and SAR.

 

[Bricklayer]

It's the Mark Cuban fallacy (also the U.S.A. Basketball Selection Committee's) -- just keep on adding name players and throwing them together and we'll be the best. Not how it works. Players have to complement each other. There is only one ball. Only so many shots. Having 5 guys who's best attriubte is shooting is just dumb. None of them get to play to their strengths, and meanwhle you are getting your butt kicked in all the hard work areas of the game. Doug was NOT the best OG in the league during our peak years, but he was right up there as one of the best ones for US. Allan Houston was higher on the food chain, but if we had traded Doug for Houston, in all liklihood we would have gotten WORSE, not better. Didn't need another soft shooter. Needed a guy who did the other stuff. And with Doug now replaced by a much more offensively minded player, we once again need to find a roleplayer to do "the other stuff", and PF is the logical position unless we make a major change. And if that roleplayer is not "the best" player out there, so be it. Its about balance.

 

[Kings113]

ITs the Mark Cuban fallacy -- jsut keep on adding name players and throwing them together and we'll be th best. Not how it works. Players have to complement each other. there is only one ball. Only so many shots. Having 5 guys who's best attriubte is shooting is just dumb. None of them get to palyh to their strengths, and meanwhle w\you are gettign your butt kicked in all the hard work areas of the game. Doug was NOT the best OG in the league during ouor peak years, but he was right up there as one of the best ones for US. Allan Houston was higher on the food chain, but if we had traded Doug for Houston, ina ll liklihood we would have gotten WORSE, nto better. Didn't need another soft shooter. Needed a guy who does the other stuff. And with Doug now replaced by a much more offensively minded player, we once again need to find a roleplayer to do "the other stuff", and PF is the logical position unless we make a major change. And if that roleplayer is not "the best" player out there, so be it. Its about balance.

Exactly.

We simply don't need much, if any more scoring (no, that's not all there is) in the starting line-up. There'll plenty come the fall on the roster.

 

[captain bill]

I would also strongly advise people not to get too fond of the idea of the "core." Think about an apple. After you eat it, what do you throw away?

Well, the core gets let to run wild and germinate upon the world. The rest of the apple gets eaten alive. I'll be a core, thank you very much.

 

[4cwebb]

[after reading whole thread]...

Wow, I'm having difficulty believing that the preceding discussion was generated in part by my question about Hart's abilities in comparison to House's, specifically noting that House was a better shooter.

I'll admit to having seen Hart play almost zero minutes last season, and he might be a better combo solution than House for the Kings off the bench because he does most other things (other than scoring) better than House. I guess I was thinking that if the Kings were actively searching for a BJax replacement, Hart wasn't going to fill the scoring shoes. And on the Kings' second unit, I still think that could be a concern, especially if KThomas is the opening day starting PF b/c no other PF has been added to the roster.

 

[Kings113]

It's not like he has no shot, he can make the mid-range shot, and slash of course.