[Game] 45/82: Kings @ Knicks 25 JAN 2025, 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET

[The_Jamal]

exactly how long have we all agreed we needed wing help? 4-5 years now. How you could call it trolling to state an obvious fact is beyond me.

and you know my source on the Boston trade and know it was legit.

OK sure. Your gripes aren't wrong. I'm saying you calling Monte worse than Vlade is trolling. Don't change the subject here. Clearly.

I have said he's far and away the best gm this team has had in a long time. 2nd best in franchise history. Proof is in the pudding the last 3 years with us being a competitive team. That bar needs to keep raising, of course, but when the franchise has what, 8 winning seasons? And all of them were in like a 10 year stretch?

I also dont think that Boston trade was good for us at that time. But here nor there.

Vlade was legitimately the worst gm of all time. I had friends working in NBA circles and they said he was getting straight up laughed at after the Sixers trade. There was reports he didn't have a single idea how the salary cap worked. He was the laughing stock of the league and everyone tried to get one over on him.

If we power ranked GMs on their performance the last 5 years, Monte would probably be somewhere around 10-12 in the NBA for me. Very good, lots of positive moves, some bad misses. But overall, took us out of the gutter and into a team that's competing for thr playoffs. That's not in the same universe of what Vlade did

 

[Kingster]

I'm confused about the Fox injury to his fingers. It occurred back near the first week of November. So why is it any different now? If it's not different, then why the disparity in performance from say the Dec 30 Dallas game where he took 23 shots and made 33 points, or the subsequent Philly game where he took 16 shots and made 35 points? Are we really sure it's the fingers or could there be other factors involved? Remember, in January of last year Fox was the Invisible Man for reasons that never made sense. The reasons given for this January also don't seem to add up.

 

[chief bromden]

I'm confused about the Fox injury to his fingers. It occurred back near the first week of November. So why is it any different now? If it's not different, then why the disparity in performance from say the Dec 30 Dallas game where he took 23 shots and made 33 points, or the subsequent Philly game where he took 16 shots and made 35 points? Are we really sure it's the fingers or could there be other factors involved? Remember, in January of last year Fox was the Invisible Man for reasons that never made sense. The reasons given for this January also don't seem to add up.

He jammed his thumb pretty early on in the Denver game. But yeah, I'm with you on the pinky finger thing.. Why has this become a story all the sudden if he's been playing with it all season?

He took a hard fall in the Memphis game and sat out the next three. Maybe that has something to do with it? All of his shots look short by a mile. He was talking to the demons in his head after some of his misses in the Knicks game, so maybe he's just in a funk. The odd thing is that his FT shooting has been amazing the past month-plus...but he hasn't shot a FT the past two games. He deserved at least a couple calls last night that he didn't get.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

OK.



OK. Great. You may understand better in the next game thread on Monday.

See you Monday sir

Litteraly every comment in here is about Fox and his terrible play, countless videos this week and you want to call me out for speaking about Fox's terrible game?

Why you keep threatening me on a kings forum bro lol. Lighten up dude. I'll just refrain from speaking or commenting on anything you say in here. It's not a big deal.

Fox shot 20 times on hurt hands. No matter how you slice that, it's not helping the team

 

[BenchMob]

I'm confused about the Fox injury to his fingers. It occurred back near the first week of November. So why is it any different now? If it's not different, then why the disparity in performance from say the Dec 30 Dallas game where he took 23 shots and made 33 points, or the subsequent Philly game where he took 16 shots and made 35 points? Are we really sure it's the fingers or could there be other factors involved? Remember, in January of last year Fox was the Invisible Man for reasons that never made sense. The reasons given for this January also don't seem to add up.

I know he has it wrapped etc, but constant contact by defenders has to make it worse as the season goes on right?

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I know he has it wrapped etc, but constant contact by defenders has to make it worse as the season goes on right?

I think he said it himself that it couldn't get worse. He also said he's just playing bad. I think we should just take him at his word at this point

 

[ESP47]

I know he has it wrapped etc, but constant contact by defenders has to make it worse as the season goes on right?

I don't recall him having the big wrap on his fingers back when he was balling out earlier in the season. It just looked like regular tape.

I can't be mad at Fox on offense because it has to be really difficult to get a feel for the ball when your fingers are wrapped up like that. I'm more mad at the organization for allowing him to play with his hand in that condition. He is absolutely tanking this team right now on offense and on defense.

They need to rest him asap and figure something else out with his hand.

 

[Kingster]

I know he has it wrapped etc, but constant contact by defenders has to make it worse as the season goes on right?

But is it worse structurally or is the pain more severe or maybe the pain is the same but he's not dealing with it the same, or maybe it's something else entirely? Other than his hands, his body should be feeling rested because of the time off he had in early January.

 

[Kingster]

I don't recall him having the big wrap on his fingers back when he was balling out earlier in the season. It just looked like regular tape.

I can't be mad at Fox on offense because it has to be really difficult to get a feel for the ball when your fingers are wrapped up like that. I'm more mad at the organization for allowing him to play with his hand in that condition. He is absolutely tanking this team right now on offense and on defense.

They need to rest him asap and figure something else out with his hand.

If the structural thing wrong with the fingers actually gets better with rest, then yes, he should rest and get 100%. But if the hand isn't going to get structurally better with the rest then after a couple of games he could be back with these poor performances because he'll surely get whacked on those fingers again and then will suffer the same pain he's apparently going through now.

 

[ESP47]

If the structural thing wrong with the fingers actually gets better with rest, then yes, he should rest and get 100%. But if the hand isn't going to get structurally better with the rest then after a couple of games he could be back with these poor performances because he'll surely get whacked on those fingers again and then will suffer the same pain he's apparently going through now.

Monte has some tough decisions to make. This is almost forcing him to trade Fox but his value is going to suffer because of the injury. If the Kings continue to play him and he tanks the season, his management is just going to blame the Kings and have him sign somewhere else. It's really a crap situation.

 

[Kingster]

Monte has some tough decisions to make. This is almost forcing him to trade Fox but his value is going to suffer because of the injury. If the Kings continue to play him and he tanks the season, his management is just going to blame the Kings and have him sign somewhere else. It's really a crap situation.

Agreed. Unless Fox's poor performance is related to something other the nagging hand injury, then this up-down performance should be expected for the rest of the season. Maybe more down than up. And it does make Fox's trade value murky and McNair probably has less leverage. Sometimes these kind of trade situations are resolved like-for-like, with the trading partner sending a very good but somewhat damaged player to the other team in return.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

I don't see how his play does anything but hurt kings trade value. Fox is good enough to have a amazing game despite the injury, and if we where smart, this would be the good time to trade him.

For instance this Brooklyn game coming up. Apparently Fox doesn't think he's that injured and will continue playing his normal style despite the results. I think he can tough out a good game. Fool somebody then pull the trigger. This of course is best case. The reality is the only person he will be fooling is the Kings

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Monte has some tough decisions to make. This is almost forcing him to trade Fox but his value is going to suffer because of the injury. If the Kings continue to play him and he tanks the season, his management is just going to blame the Kings and have him sign somewhere else. It's really a crap situation.

Everyone already knows who he is as a player when healthy. Would be a disaster to go into the off season with the fingers worse than they are now. Then you'd really have the teams interested, questioning whether it's the right move.

 

[SacTownKid]

If the structural thing wrong with the fingers actually gets better with rest, then yes, he should rest and get 100%. But if the hand isn't going to get structurally better with the rest then after a couple of games he could be back with these poor performances because he'll surely get whacked on those fingers again and then will suffer the same pain he's apparently going through now.

I think currently the pinky itself isn't the entire issue, but having a sprained thumb on the other hand and being dinged up in general could be a problem. The thumb should heal with rest. Look we all know there is no incentive for Fox to sit. Not for him at least. If he does he's potentially giving up any shot at that super max.

 

[sactowndog]

OK sure. Your gripes aren't wrong. I'm saying you calling Monte worse than Vlade is trolling. Don't change the subject here. Clearly.

I have said he's far and away the best gm this team has had in a long time. 2nd best in franchise history. Proof is in the pudding the last 3 years with us being a competitive team. That bar needs to keep raising, of course, but when the franchise has what, 8 winning seasons? And all of them were in like a 10 year stretch?

I also dont think that Boston trade was good for us at that time. But here nor there.

Vlade was legitimately the worst gm of all time. I had friends working in NBA circles and they said he was getting straight up laughed at after the Sixers trade. There was reports he didn't have a single idea how the salary cap worked. He was the laughing stock of the league and everyone tried to get one over on him.

If we power ranked GMs on their performance the last 5 years, Monte would probably be somewhere around 10-12 in the NBA for me. Very good, lots of positive moves, some bad misses. But overall, took us out of the gutter and into a team that's competing for thr playoffs. That's not in the same universe of what Vlade did

I didn’t say he was worse than Vlade.

Approaching Vlade is not worse than Vlade and I would argue Vlade made some good trades (minus the Philly disaster) but tragically drafted worse than a random draw.

I have him for sure worse the Petrie, worse the Reynolds who acquired some good picks and was tragically unlucky (so tragically I don’t even want to try to put it in context).

that leaves Joe Axelson (and it is hard to compare given his tenure spanned KC and Sac and the draft was many more rounds) and Pete.

I punted on Joe because as it’s comparing apples and oranges but certainly his record was poor. Pete was bad but he only lasted 2 years and didn’t have much of a chance to F up.

Monte has had multiple opportunities and F’d them up and in some cases repeated the same mistake causing him to trade away his best guard once and likely again before all is said and done. He isn’t worst then Vlade. In my opinion he is worse than Pete and working on Vlade.

 

[SLAB]

Monte traded his best guard for a top 3 center.

Pete traded his best guard for Alex Oriakhi.


Pete >>> Monte

 

[midtowner]

Monte traded his best guard for a top 3 center.

Pete traded his best guard for Alex Oriakhi.

I think your >< are going the wrong way.

Pete >>> Monte

 

[ESP47]

Monte traded his best guard for a top 3 center.

Pete traded his best guard for Alex Oriakhi.


Pete >>> Monte

Oriakhi is still developing in Puerto Rico.

Only time will tell.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Since we’re having a GM talk how the **** did we not end up with a decent player this draft

https://twitter.com/x/status/1883342207601770683

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Since we’re having a GM talk how the **** did we not end up with a decent player this draft

https://twitter.com/x/status/1883342207601770683

Hard to imagine picking Davion Mitchell over some of these guys that were available, almost just on body type alone. This is an area where taking "best player available" based on what they did in college can really hurt, instead of projecting how effective they're likely to be in the NBA

 

[jphilip]

Imagine sengun smd domas on one team i really gate davion now

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Hard to imagine picking Davion Mitchell over some of these guys that were available, almost just on body type alone. This is an area where taking "best player available" based on what they did in college can really hurt, instead of projecting how effective they're likely to be in the NBA

Forget what he did in college we had fox and Halliburton already what does a 6’1 guard in the lottery accomplish. I was reading some mocks and they had us taking sengun saying we were linked to him

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/29/nba-mock-draft-2021-rumors-cade-cunningham-jalen-green-evan-mobley

 

[SLAB]

Hard to imagine picking Davion Mitchell over some of these guys that were available, almost just on body type alone. This is an area where taking "best player available" based on what they did in college can really hurt, instead of projecting how effective they're likely to be in the NBA

Davion was always such an awful pick. Middling upside, decently floored win now role-player on a terrible team with other players already ahead of him on the depth chart.

 

[Sherds]

Imagine sengun smd domas on one team i really gate davion now

Sengun, Johnson, Jones, Murphy lll... Eh

 

[SacTownKid]

Hard to imagine picking Davion Mitchell over some of these guys that were available, almost just on body type alone. This is an area where taking "best player available" based on what they did in college can really hurt, instead of projecting how effective they're likely to be in the NBA

If Davion were a few inches taller and a better athlete he could be a star. He was a small combo playing at a school that ran him next to two other smallish combo's. That's a tough sell at the NBA level if you aren't bringing elite athletic ability to the table or producing numbers across the board.

 

[Sherds]

Davion was always such an awful pick. Middling upside, decently floored win now roll-player on a terrible team with other players already ahead of him on the depth chart.

Was so disappointed at the time, and im not just saying that with revisionist history. Gotta say I felt the same exact feeling when we drafted Carter, I wanted Ware.. hope I'm wrong this time tho.

I really just want some options with size on this team.. Everyone is on the small size for their position.

 

[SacTownKid]

Was so disappointed at the time, and im not just saying that with revisionist history. Gotta say I felt the same exact feeling when we drafted Carter, I wanted Ware.. hope I'm wrong this time tho.

I really just want some options with size on this team.. Everyone is on the small size for their position.

The difference with Carter is obviously physical. Length, broken combine records, etc. not to mention productivity. The thing that makes Carter a better bet to not totally bust is his productivity level. When you look at his per minute productivity per 40 in every single college year with differing levels of opportunity and in his first year half the actual game time, it's almost identical across the board. He's at 19 ppg, 8 rpg, 4 apg, 2 spg, and 1 bpg per 40 over 3 years. Last year he finally got the role of a star and the minutes to go with it so what did he put up? 19, 9, 4, 2, and 1. I mean, that's crazy reliable stuff in terms of sheer production. Right now even in limited time he's also super productive. Per 48 he's already putting up 18 ppg, 12 rpg, and 6 apg. If his per minute contributions transfer over like college, dudes going to be a productive player at the very least.

 

[SLAB]

Was so disappointed at the time, and im not just saying that with revisionist history. Gotta say I felt the same exact feeling when we drafted Carter, I wanted Ware.. hope I'm wrong this time tho.

I really just want some options with size on this team.. Everyone is on the small size for their position.

I wanted Sengun. Love me some skilled unathletic Euros. Lmao

 

[Sherds]

The difference with Carter is obviously physical. Length, broken combine records, etc. not to mention productivity. The thing that makes Carter a better bet to not totally bust is his productivity level. When you look at his per minute productivity per 40 in every single college year with differing levels of opportunity and in his first year half the actual game time, it's almost identical across the board. He's at 19 ppg, 8 rpg, 4 apg, 2 spg, and 1 bpg per 40 over 3 years. Last year he finally got the role of a star and the minutes to go with it so what did he put up? 19, 9, 4, 2, and 1. I mean, that's crazy reliable stuff in terms of sheer production. Right now even in limited time he's also super productive. Per 48 he's already putting up 18 ppg, 12 rpg, and 6 apg. If his per minute contributions transfer over like college, dudes going to be a productive player at the very least.

Hope so and trust everyones analysis over mine

Being in Australia, I don't really follow college ball so I'm often clueless about who the BPA is and just look for prospects who gonna fix our issues (on paper at least)

Just saying that on draft night, I had the same feeling when we drafted Mitchell which was... " Another guard? How's this gonna work? " and really wanted to address our size and front court depth seeing that we hadn't been able to do it in FA or via trade.

Those guys are like hens teeth and teams just aren't giving them away so was hoping more than anything we'd land our solution

Would've been great to snag one in the 2nd round over the years

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Hope so and trust everyones analysis over mine

Being in Australia, I don't really follow college ball so I'm often clueless about who the BPA is and just look for prospects who gonna fix our issues (on paper at least)

Just saying that on draft night, I had the same feeling when we drafted Mitchell which was... " Another guard? How's this gonna work? " and really wanted to address our size and front court depth seeing that we hadn't been able to do it in FA or via trade.

Those guys are like hens teeth and teams just aren't giving them away so was hoping more than anything we'd land our

Would've been great to snag one in the 2nd round over the years

.
I think more people felt the same way without wanting to admit it. It's clear we have a log jam at his position. The fact he can rebound doesn't compensate for height on defense.

But he's easy to root for. So was Davin his 1st year. People really started to turn on Davin when he came back the next year the same Height as the year before. I mean the guy didn't work on growing at all. Let's hope Carter doesn't make the same mistake