iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
They have multiple elite wing defenders
and most of them are guard sized. Even Jalen Williams is not your typical 6’8 wing defender, he is 6’5.
They have multiple elite wing defenders
Yeah it’s frustrating because I’m sure this entire starting lineup thing has “ego” written all over it.Yeah, but I think the main objective would be to get Keon in the game for starter like minutes, which Doug has been doing. Whether Keon starts or is the first guard off the bench is moot. Monk has paid his dues and DDR is still playing at an All-Star level. You don’t necessarily want to mess with the mojo at this point in the season. I have confidence that Doug will pull the right strings. I think Doug has everyone buying in to their roles right now.
We need to maintain that delicate balance of ego, minutes and winning. We can worry about shuffling the starting lineup if things start to stagnate later.
I know you're high on Carter like most of us, but do you have him jumping Keon as the potential best starter fit this early?
Yeah, Lu Dort is legitimately shorter than Keon Ellisand most of them are guard sized. Even Jalen Williams is not your typical 6’8 wing defender, he is 6’5.
Not sure about derozan but monk seems like a team player. He just wants to win. He gets the other players involved so I bet the other players like playing with him. With brown the team wasn’t winning so I get why monk would be adamant about starting but pair him with a finisher on the bench I’d think he would be game for that role.Yeah it’s frustrating because I’m sure this entire starting lineup thing has “ego” written all over it.
It was reported that Brown approached DeRozan about coming off the bench, and I can only assume that wasn’t received very well by DeRozan. Why would we expect that same message to go over differently with Christie?
Monk has been vocal that his preference is to start, that he’s wanted to start, etc., and now after 2 years of not starting, he just recently got his first taste of being the starting SG of the Sacramento Kings. I could see it not going over so well if we relegated him back to the bench so soon after getting his opportunity to start.
I’m going to make 2 predictions as it relates to this…
It sucks because I think most of us see that Ellis starting over Monk would be better if all variables are held constant, but the simple move of moving Monk out of the starting lineup could change a variable and impact the vibes of the team which could spiral into a worse outcome than if we would have just let Monk continue to start.
- The starting lineup will only change if we go through a rough patch this season
- If we do change the starting lineup, it’ll be Monk moved to the bench. Not DeRozan.
I know I have mentioned this before (and I saw Slim mentioned it in this thread as well), but I’d be open to selling high on Monk and explore trades that send him out for frontcourt help. It’s going to be really important for us going forward to get our defenders on the floor for a lot of the game, and with Fox, DeRozan, and Sabonis in the starting/closing lineup, we should still have a lot of firepower offensively to get the job done. Not to mention someone like Carter could easily keep growing their offensive game and be another secondary scorer/playmaker to lean on.
Yeah, Lu Dort is legitimately shorter than Keon Ellis
I don't know about this early, long term yes. He's by far the most complete player outside of the Kings stars. Carter I think is already ahead of where many thought he would be as a primary ball handler. The reason they went with Monk and Fox is it adds that secondary ball handler. Carter right now is effecting the game as a role/glue player, but he's also showing the ability to handle the ball when pressure comes. Not to mention productivity. Carter isn't just doing things that don't show up in the stat sheets, he's getting boards, he's drawing and kicking quite effectively, he's clamping down and yes, able to switch on a Giddey or a THT. Keon looks more like a true 3 and D role player, Carter is something else. That something else is why he was at one point considered a top 8 pick. They need to see Carter and Fox more because the more reps he can get on catch and shoot the more certain you can be about his fit with Fox and vice versa. Keon might end up being a better fit because of his shooting, who knows. If Carter's catch and shoot abilities from college translate, I don't see this even being a contest. Remember when people would say "man, if you could just combine these two guys they'd be perfect!". Well, here you go.
The one listing I can find of Lu Dort without shoes is 6'2.75 with a 6'8 wingspan. Devin Carter is 6'2.25 with a 6'9 wingspan. Dort does have about 25+ lbs on him.Yeah, Lu Dort is legitimately shorter than Keon Ellis
I see the same thing with Carter.I don't know about this early, long term yes. He's by far the most complete player outside of the Kings stars. Carter I think is already ahead of where many thought he would be as a primary ball handler. The reason they went with Monk and Fox is it adds that secondary ball handler. Carter right now is effecting the game as a role/glue player, but he's also showing the ability to handle the ball when pressure comes. Not to mention productivity. Carter isn't just doing things that don't show up in the stat sheets, he's getting boards, he's drawing and kicking quite effectively, he's clamping down and yes, able to switch on a Giddey or a THT. Keon looks more like a true 3 and D role player, Carter is something else. That something else is why he was at one point considered a top 8 pick. They need to see Carter and Fox more because the more reps he can get on catch and shoot the more certain you can be about his fit with Fox and vice versa. Keon might end up being a better fit because of his shooting, who knows. If Carter's catch and shoot abilities from college translate, I don't see this even being a contest. Remember when people would say "man, if you could just combine these two guys they'd be perfect!". Well, here you go.
and most of them are guard sized. Even Jalen Williams is not your typical 6’8 wing defender, he is 6’5.
If there is a deal out there to get us a respectible wing, Cam Johnson for instance, that requires Monk as a piece. I'd give him up in a heartbeat.Fox actually looks decent defensively when another good defender is with him in the backcourt. I agree in principle that the Fox/Monk backcourt is probably not the move. I'm going to zig where a lot of people here seem to be zagging and say that Monk is much more replaceable than Fox, and it might be a good idea to sell high on him.
If there is a deal out there to get us a respectible wing, Cam Johnson for instance, that requires Monk as a piece. I'd give him up in a heartbeat.
The point is that he’s been vocal about starting regardless of how the team was performing. Now that he’s been promoted to the starting lineup, it’s going to be difficult to put that genie back in the bottle unless the team goes through a rough patch (or a major trade occurs).Not sure about derozan but monk seems like a team player. He just wants to win. He gets the other players involved so I bet the other players like playing with him. With brown the team wasn’t winning so I get why monk would be adamant about starting but pair him with a finisher on the bench I’d think he would be game for that role.
The point is that he’s been vocal about starting regardless of how the team was performing. Now that he’s been promoted to the starting lineup, it’s going to be difficult to put that genie back in the bottle unless the team goes through a rough patch (or a major trade occurs).
Also, my point is that I don’t know if I’d prefer him to close even if he doesn’t start. Fox, DeRozan, and Sabonis is a lot of offense. Adding in Ellis/Carter and Murray between those 3 make a lot of sense. Have Ellis/Carter, Murray, and Fox (since he tends to dial it up more in these moments) lock up the opposing offense down the stretch and then let Fox and DeRozan cook off action with Sabonis to bring us home offensively.
If there is a deal out there to get us a respectible wing, Cam Johnson for instance, that requires Monk as a piece. I'd give him up in a heartbeat.
I don't think anyone disagrees that Keon should be in the starting lineup. That's been set in stone since the summer. Something Christie is going to have to come to terms with and get the buy-in from either DDR or Monk to go to the bench.
I see the same thing with Carter.
When you watch him, you can just see the flashes and potential he has as a ball handler, scorer, passer, etc. It’s not that Ellis is bad offensively. He’s not. But with Carter, you can see a path for him to become a 15-18 PPG secondary scorer/playmaker in this league (vs. those 10-12 PPG 3&D role players like Ellis).
Now I don’t think I’d bet on Carter being a better shooter than Ellis. I mean…how many players in this league shoot the 3 at a 41.6% clip on 6.0 3PA per 36 min for their career? But I do think he’ll at least be a good shooter (~37%).
Essentially, if he lives up to his potential, you’re probably looking at someone with these attributes…
That’s a heck of a player and he’s be a terrific fit at SG next to Fox long term. And as I type this, I sort of see him as having the potential to become someone like Jalen Suggs. A defensive monster who can still score a bit, space the floor, and handle some playmaking duties.
- 15-18 PPG scorer
- 4-5 APG
- 5-7 RPG
- 1-1.5 SPG
- 0.7-1.0 BPG
- 37% 3PT shooter on good volume
- Elite POA defender
- Strong enough to not get bullied on defense by strong 2s & 3s
But that’s sort of the rub, isn’t it?As a head coach, no matter how vocal a guy is, you have to do what you believe is best for the team. Monk wouldn't turn into a locker room cancer or anything, if he was moved back to 6th man.
If Christie is convinced that Monk is best as a starter right now, then fine, stick with it. But if he doesn't, then he needs to make the move for the betterment of the team going forward
I certainly would not.If there is a deal out there to get us a respectible wing, Cam Johnson for instance, that requires Monk as a piece. I'd give him up in a heartbeat.
But that’s sort of the rub, isn’t it?
It might be the right team if all of these guys are robots, but a decision that, on paper, is best for the team could have a negative impact on the team dependent on how the players receive that decision.
The coach has to think through the Xs and Os just as much as has to think through team dynamics & morale.
Trading Monk would be really hard. I would think there is a decent chance one of Fox, Deebo or Monk is not on the team next year depending how things go
Trading Monk would be really hard. I would think there is a decent chance one of Fox, Deebo or Monk is not on the team next year depending how things go
Yup. It’s why I think the Kings are probably more in the market for a backup big than they are a wing. Getting a good/great backup center like Jonas or Vuc or Time Lord allows the Kings to eat some of the forward minutes with Trey.
If his contract is a good value, than that holds value in a trade, right?I also think what you would get for Monk would be limited and he is on a really good contract. Monk’s value per dollar is really high.
I see the same thing with Carter.
When you watch him, you can just see the flashes and potential he has as a ball handler, scorer, passer, etc. It’s not that Ellis is bad offensively. He’s not. But with Carter, you can see a path for him to become a 15-18 PPG secondary scorer/playmaker in this league (vs. those 10-12 PPG 3&D role players like Ellis).
Now I don’t think I’d bet on Carter being a better shooter than Ellis. I mean…how many players in this league shoot the 3 at a 41.6% clip on 6.0 3PA per 36 min for their career? But I do think he’ll at least be a good shooter (~37%).
Essentially, if he lives up to his potential, you’re probably looking at someone with these attributes…
That’s a heck of a player and he’s be a terrific fit at SG next to Fox long term. And as I type this, I sort of see him as having the potential to become someone like Jalen Suggs. A defensive monster who can still score a bit, space the floor, and handle some playmaking duties.
- 15-18 PPG scorer
- 4-5 APG
- 5-7 RPG
- 1-1.5 SPG
- 0.7-1.0 BPG
- 37% 3PT shooter on good volume
- Elite POA defender
- Strong enough to not get bullied on defense by strong 2s & 3s
Starting isn’t the only issue …. It’s minutes for both Keon and Carter. There just aren’t enough minutes for all our guards.
we have 4 players total 6’8” or taller.
Keegan
Lyles
Sabonis
Len
Jones as a 2 way.
Hard to find many teams with so few players 6’8” or over.
Well we fundamentally disagree that Carter can flex up to play SF for stretches (particularly against backup SFs) so I’m sure we’ll disagree with my minutes rotation. Below is what I’d go with assuming we trade Huerter for a backup C or something…Starting isn’t the only issue …. It’s minutes for both Keon and Carter. There just aren’t enough minutes for all our guards