2023 NBA Free Agency Mega Thread

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hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#751
#751
ESP47 said:
I'm surprised you have such a bearish outlook on OKC. I think they're in a really good spot right now. I don't know why you'd think they'd trade SGA as a 25 year old and restart a rebuild right in the middle of a rebuild. Team surprised everyone and won a play in game on the back of SGA and a bunch of young promising players who are only going to get better.

You're comparing Vlade whiffing on nearly every single draft pick with a team who so far has hit on nearly all of theirs. This team is going to be a problem this year and they're only going to get better as time goes on.
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The thing is... they have players, not a team. Almost everyone on that team is a slasher who gets to the line but doesn't hit reliably from 3pt range yet. What typically happens with teams structured this way is that they all fight for playing time and then they all need new contracts and start leaving one by one. Sam Presti hit on almost all of his picks when the Thunder first moved to OKC too and they ended up trading all of them. Kevin Durant was a once in a generation can't miss superstar prospect and in his 9 year run there they got to the Finals once. They could have won it all but the owner balked when it came time to pay everybody.

If Chet becomes a superstar things might be different for them this time but none of the top ranked big guys have done anything in two decades. They're either injured off and on or they end up forcing their teams to play an inefficient style of basketball which doesn't win anymore. Also OKC has been notorious for their lack of patience. They're the exact opposite of Portland which clung to Brandon Roy and now Damian Lillard long after it was clear to everyone else that their run was over. OKC keeps trading and tinkering and drafting and going nowhere.

I just don't see them as much of a threat. I don't see how SGA could play better than he did this past season and he couldn't get them past the play-in. Granted folks said similar things about De'Aaron Fox a year ago but look what it took to turn things around for him -- the additions of Malik Monk, Kevin Huerter, Keegan Murray, Domantas Sabonis, and Mike Brown. That's a Coach of the Year, a top rookie, a sharp shooter, an All Star big man, and a 6th man of the year candidate.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#754
#754
hrdboild said:
The thing is... they have players, not a team. Almost everyone on that team is a slasher who gets to the line but doesn't hit reliably from 3pt range yet. What typically happens with teams structured this way is that they all fight for playing time and then they all need new contracts and start leaving one by one. Sam Presti hit on almost all of his picks when the Thunder first moved to OKC too and they ended up trading all of them. Kevin Durant was a once in a generation can't miss superstar prospect and in his 9 year run there they got to the Finals once. They could have won it all but the owner balked when it came time to pay everybody.

If Chet becomes a superstar things might be different for them this time but none of the top ranked big guys have done anything in two decades. They're either injured off and on or they end up forcing their teams to play an inefficient style of basketball which doesn't win anymore. Also OKC has been notorious for their lack of patience. They're the exact opposite of Portland which clung to Brandon Roy and now Damian Lillard long after it was clear to everyone else that their run was over. OKC keeps trading and tinkering and drafting and going nowhere.

I just don't see them as much of a threat. I don't see how SGA could play better than he did this past season and he couldn't get them past the play-in. Granted folks said similar things about De'Aaron Fox a year ago but look what it took to turn things around for him -- the additions of Malik Monk, Kevin Huerter, Keegan Murray, Domantas Sabonis, and Mike Brown. That's a Coach of the Year, a top rookie, a sharp shooter, an All Star big man, and a 6th man of the year candidate.
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You make it seem like it was a failure that they couldn't get past the play in when no one was penciling them in to be that good. They were penciled in as a bottom dweller team. Their season was a massive success.

SGA is one of the best scorers in the game. Giddey is going to be a perennial triple double player. Jalen Williams was better than Keegan last year and will be a force soon enough. Throw in Chet, Jaylin Williams, Dieng and Cason Wallace and they've basically got a playoff team with just SGA + all home grown talent. Add to that the slew of drat pick capital they have for trades? They're in great shape. Possibly even better shape than the Kings. Everyone on that team other than Kenrich Williams that played meaningful minutes was 24 or under.

Last season would have been an absolute dream season for us during the Vlade rebuild years. The Kings were older than that, even during the "superteam, just young" years and they weren't even close to as good as the Thunder were last year. They're building something special.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#756
#756
ESP47 said:
You make it seem like it was a failure that they couldn't get past the play in when no one was penciling them in to be that good. They were penciled in as a bottom dweller team. Their season was a massive success.

SGA is one of the best scorers in the game. Giddey is going to be a perennial triple double player. Jalen Williams was better than Keegan last year and will be a force soon enough. Throw in Chet, Jaylin Williams, Dieng and Cason Wallace and they've basically got a playoff team with just SGA + all home grown talent. Add to that the slew of drat pick capital they have for trades? They're in great shape. Possibly even better shape than the Kings. Everyone on that team other than Kenrich Williams that played meaningful minutes was 24 or under.

Last season would have been an absolute dream season for us during the Vlade rebuild years. The Kings were older than that, even during the "superteam, just young" years and they weren't even close to as good as the Thunder were last year. They're building something special.
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Without being dismissive of OKC because I think they have enough assets that it will be hard to screw up, I think @hrdboild is correct that they have a really nice collection of individual talents but they don't have a team. So far the results of a "process" style rebuild are: OG Thunder - where the three All NBA players proved completely unable to co-exist and all bolted when given a chance. Philly - who tore apart a second round playoff team to kickstart their process and in the years since has failed to advance past the second round. And OKC, Houston and Detroit today. So far OKC looks like the only one of those teams that has any clue what they are doing but they still just keep stockpiling more picks than they can possibly give playing time to. It has to come to a head.

There's also Utah who may actually have proven that the best "process" is to wreck the team(s) you trade your stars too, get good players back and don't go full tank, as Ainge did once before with the Nets and the current Boston Js team.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#758
#758
ESP47 said:
You make it seem like it was a failure that they couldn't get past the play in when no one was penciling them in to be that good. They were penciled in as a bottom dweller team. Their season was a massive success.

SGA is one of the best scorers in the game. Giddey is going to be a perennial triple double player. Jalen Williams was better than Keegan last year and will be a force soon enough. Throw in Chet, Jaylin Williams, Dieng and Cason Wallace and they've basically got a playoff team with just SGA + all home grown talent. Add to that the slew of drat pick capital they have for trades? They're in great shape. Possibly even better shape than the Kings. Everyone on that team other than Kenrich Williams that played meaningful minutes was 24 or under.

Last season would have been an absolute dream season for us during the Vlade rebuild years. The Kings were older than that, even during the "superteam, just young" years and they weren't even close to as good as the Thunder were last year. They're building something special.
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I'm not trying to be argumentative, I was just elaborating on why I don't view them as more than a work-in-progress mid-tier team right now. I wasn't high on them drafting Chet to begin with which is skewing my assessment down. He's clearly enormously talented when he's actually on the court but guys who look like him never seem to stay healthy and he's already had to sit out an entire year which is not helping to change that impression. Anyone projecting a big leap from OKC next year must be assuming that Chet is going to come in and immediately give them All-Star level production. I hope he's able to work with a strength trainer and find a system that works but I can't project All-Star level production for him until I see him actually play minutes against NBA competition.

Here's the big question for me with OKC: If I accept your premise that failing to advance to a full playoff series (i.e. a top 8 team in the conference) can be viewed as either a successful year or an over-performing year for them, than where is the substantial growth going to come from? SGA, Giddey, Dort and Jalen Williams are their core wing players and together they shoot around 34% from range. They have a bunch of weapons and one legit All-Star but the pieces don't fit particularly well together and other teams' stars don't want to go there so they can't even get to the bargaining table with all those trade assets unless its as a facilitator for someone else. That all sounds a lot like Vlade's Kings to me.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#774
#774
dude12 said:
Count me as skeptical whether the Suns become this great championship caliber team. Bradley Beal becomes the starting PG? Fox vs Beal is a win for us.
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Any decent coach (Vogel is) can figure that is a team that doesn't require a PG anyway and work around it. They are just going to run a multioptional pick and roll game anyway. With Gordon on board they have 4 guys that can basically run pnr offense and most like to shoot from it so not having a gang of shooting right now might not effect them much in reality. They're pretty much the Clippers on steroids. They've already patched together a decent 6-7 deep rotation and there's plenty of FA options available. These SOB's will probably land a pretty big name on a prove it contract to boot. Players that are still waiting for the money will eventually be beating down their door come preseason time if those players never found that money.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#780
#780
Tetsujin said:
https://twitter.com/statuses/1681777608080478209


Harden, Russ, and two elite wings whose leg ligaments are held together with silly string. What could possibly go wrong?
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If it worked though that's pretty much it for most teams below the top 3. However, that looks like a disaster on paper. Way too much. The Suns actually kind of have a nice balance but this Clippers incarnation would be volume city.
 
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