OFFICIAL NBA DRAFT MEASUREMENTS
https://mediacentral.nba.com/wp-con...2016-Draft-Combine-Anthropometric-Results.pdf
https://mediacentral.nba.com/wp-con...2016-Draft-Combine-Anthropometric-Results.pdf
2016 NBA Draft Discussion
- Thread starter Dime Dropper
- Start date
Few observations:
1. Wade Baldwin IV has amazing length and size. 6'4 200lbs 6'11 wingspan.
2. lol at North Carolina's weight inflations.
4. Marquese Chriss measured at 6'10 with a 7' 0.25 wingspan and 233lbs. Definitely great for him, and I don't think he's done growing.
5. Henry Ellenson came in at 6'10 w/o shoes. Extremely surprised, I thought he was more on the 6'8, 6'9 side. 6'11.5 with a 7'2 wingspan.
6. No Jamaal Murray. I'm skeptical that he's 6'5.
1. Wade Baldwin IV has amazing length and size. 6'4 200lbs 6'11 wingspan.
2. lol at North Carolina's weight inflations.
- Brice Johnson: 230, actual: 208.
- Marcus Paige: 175, actual: 163
- Justin Jackson: 200, actual: 193(pathetic, Demetrius Jackson weighs the same)
4. Marquese Chriss measured at 6'10 with a 7' 0.25 wingspan and 233lbs. Definitely great for him, and I don't think he's done growing.
5. Henry Ellenson came in at 6'10 w/o shoes. Extremely surprised, I thought he was more on the 6'8, 6'9 side. 6'11.5 with a 7'2 wingspan.
6. No Jamaal Murray. I'm skeptical that he's 6'5.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I thought, you wasn't that great with statistics?!
Those numbers still don't say what part of his offense will carry over to the NBA. Cause he will need every bit of that, since he's not a good team defender, and no one is playing ISO on the perimeter unless it's a clear mismatch.
I list stats only because it seems the only way to convince you. As to what part of his offense that will carry over, why don't you try watching him play instead of just reading stats. I'm starting to think that you don't watch any of these players. That all you do is read stats and read mock draft reports. What made Hield stand out last season was his consistency. His ability to turn it on when it was needed. He was almost the primary ball handler for Oklahoma. While I admit that he can't handle like Jamal Crawford, I don't think it's a liability. He a far better ball handler than McLemore. I'm not saying he'll be the greatest thing since swiss cheese, but I think he'll be a good NBA SG. He's mentally tough, something that McLemore isn't.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think Murray is a legit 6'5", but we'll see. I wish Ellenson was more athletic. He's very skilled, and looks to be a prototypical stretch four with some post skills. His wingspan is a little better than I anticipated. Early in the college season, he was one of the best players that I saw. He might be someone that the Kings look at if all the other prospects are off the board.
I like Chriss's long range potential, but he not ready to play in the NBA right now. Wade Baldwin is my second favorite PG in the draft, but he falls more into the combo guard mold that everyone seems to be going to. He has the tools to be a good defender.
Jaylen Brown has been pretty consistently listed as 6'7" - I thought he would come in quite a bit short of that but at 6'5.25" barefoot he's only about a half-inch short (my rule is to ignore the with-shoes measurement and add 1.25" to the barefoot measurement).
Ben Bentil measured out quite well. I've seen him as potentially occupying a Draymond Green-type role in the NBA, and he comes in with the same wingspan and standing reach, but a full 1.5 inches taller and a few pounds lighter.
Nigel Hayes measured out about where I thought, and at clearly under 6'8" in shoes, he doesn't jump off the paper. He has a 7'3" wingspan but somehow a very stubby 8'5.5" standing reach - less than Valentine.
Speaking of Denzel Valentine, I'm a bit disappointed in that he is only 6'4" barefoot. But his wingspan and standing reach are very nice for his size.
Kyle Wiltjer comes in at 15.9% body fat, which has to be a typo, right? You're telling me that Kyle Wiltjer has a higher body fat percentage than Diamond Stone?
And speaking of Diamond Stone, DX has been listing him at 7'0" all year, and I've been wondering where they got that. Well, I don't know, but he's 6'9" barefoot, so unless he's playing in heels, he ain't going to be nearing 7'0".
Ben Bentil measured out quite well. I've seen him as potentially occupying a Draymond Green-type role in the NBA, and he comes in with the same wingspan and standing reach, but a full 1.5 inches taller and a few pounds lighter.
Nigel Hayes measured out about where I thought, and at clearly under 6'8" in shoes, he doesn't jump off the paper. He has a 7'3" wingspan but somehow a very stubby 8'5.5" standing reach - less than Valentine.
Speaking of Denzel Valentine, I'm a bit disappointed in that he is only 6'4" barefoot. But his wingspan and standing reach are very nice for his size.
Kyle Wiltjer comes in at 15.9% body fat, which has to be a typo, right? You're telling me that Kyle Wiltjer has a higher body fat percentage than Diamond Stone?
And speaking of Diamond Stone, DX has been listing him at 7'0" all year, and I've been wondering where they got that. Well, I don't know, but he's 6'9" barefoot, so unless he's playing in heels, he ain't going to be nearing 7'0".
bajaden
Hall of Famer
LOL! I'm picturing Stone in heels right now! Yeah, those measurements have to be disappointing for Stone. I also have a hard time believing that Wiltjer's body fat is that high. Hayes had a fairly high body fat content as well, but that's not much of a surprise. I was hoping for Carter to measure a little taller, but not to be. Hey, if we get lucky and Dunn slides to us we have to find a way to draft Bentil, right? He was the beneficiary of most of Dunn's assists.
Hield's haircut is worth at least an inch...
Anyway reach is more important, and 8'5" there is perfectly acceptable number even before the influx of shorter guards to SG position.Brogdon is not an explosive leaper, so given his other measurement I suspect he was really crouching to get to that 8'2" reach. Few more just as obvious with Finney-Smith being just plain stupid as he "shrunk" 7 inches in a month.
Poeltl with under 8'10" reach?! That's really bad for an NBA center. Unless he shows up with 40-inch jump in athletic testing, it really hurts his stock.
No, he wasn't a primary ballhandler: Woodard and Cousins spent more time on the ball. I don't have much time to watch college basketball (time zone is probably bigger problem than time constraint), so yes, I look through stats first. Unlike previous years haven't really read DX at all this season, only watched a few of their videos on specific games by some prospects. As for watching games I've seen Oklahoma and Duke the most this season, probably 5-6 times each. Actually I still haven't seen full Villanova-Oklahoma game, so I don't judge Buddy based on his worst game of the season. Again everyone is a winner or tough warrior, until he isn't, but I don't see elite scoring skillset. Hield has a very quick release, so maybe he'll become Curry of SGs, when even a little window of opportunity will result in a shot. I guess, we'll see, who was right, in 2-3 years.
Any thoughts on Henry Ellenson for us?
If we won't make any move and the draft would go as expected (with Simmons, Ingram, Bender, Brown, Hield, Dunn adn Murray all taken) we could use a stretch 4.
6'11.5 with a 7'2 wingspan is really impressive for a PF and from the little I've seen he can score inside and outside and a good rebounder, I know he have some defensive issues though but from what I've seen a lot of it was about keeping forwards in front of him- if he can play some center (1.5 blocks in college) he can be an interesting guy (and can fit next to WCS on paper).
But again I'm basing all of that on not a lot of time seeing him and some stats (I don't follow college hoops closely), so I would love to hear other opinions.
If we won't make any move and the draft would go as expected (with Simmons, Ingram, Bender, Brown, Hield, Dunn adn Murray all taken) we could use a stretch 4.
6'11.5 with a 7'2 wingspan is really impressive for a PF and from the little I've seen he can score inside and outside and a good rebounder, I know he have some defensive issues though but from what I've seen a lot of it was about keeping forwards in front of him- if he can play some center (1.5 blocks in college) he can be an interesting guy (and can fit next to WCS on paper).
But again I'm basing all of that on not a lot of time seeing him and some stats (I don't follow college hoops closely), so I would love to hear other opinions.
ockingsfan
Starter
I don't think the Kings have much to offer to move up.
The Kings will probably either stay where they are picking or trade the pick for veteran help.
Stone always seemed to me to be built a lot like Kendrick Perkins. I think they are probably about the same size.
Valentine may struggle on the NBA level. I don't know if he has the quickness to guard 2's or the size to guard 3's. I've heard the Evan Turner comp for him but Turner was/is significantly more athletic. But he's got a nice shot and knows how to play the game so we'll see.
I like Ben Bentil but I don't think he's a Draymond Green type player. Kind of a poor man's Paul Millsap though Bentil did significantly improve his rebounding this season.
Oh, and how about Zhou Qi with a 7' 7.75" wingspan? That's almost Rudy Gobert length.
I think Ellenson's ceiling is a combo between Kevin Love and 2015 Cousins(jump shooter, putting ball on floor, etc). However, his defense is the main thing holding him back.
I don't think he's a good fit for us. Lacking on defense, and not a particularly good fit alongside Cousins on that end.
However, I think he would be a great fit in Minnesota. Good offensive weapon alongside KAT who can stretch the floor too. Defense would be passable against Cs.
I don't think we'll have to move up for him....
Simmons, Bender, Ingram goes top 3 in some order probably.
Suns: Jaylen Brown, Timberwolves: Jamaal Murray?, NO: Buddy Hield, Denver: Poeltl?? Kings: Dunn
However, if things fall like that way, it wouldn't shock me if the Nuggets go, screw it, we're picking Dunn. Mudiay's rookie year wasn't impressive......
He's actually a pretty nice iso player. Brown is extremely raw, but the upside is there.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Hield's haircut is worth at least an inch...
Brogdon is not an explosive leaper, so given his other measurement I suspect he was really crouching to get to that 8'2" reach. Few more just as obvious with Finney-Smith being just plain stupid as he "shrunk" 7 inches in a month.
Poeltl with under 8'10" reach?! That's really bad for an NBA center. Unless he shows up with 40-inch jump in athletic testing, it really hurts his stock.
No, he wasn't a primary ballhandler: Woodard and Cousins spent more time on the ball. I don't have much time to watch college basketball (time zone is probably bigger problem than time constraint), so yes, I look through stats first. Unlike previous years haven't really read DX at all this season, only watched a few of their videos on specific games by some prospects. As for watching games I've seen Oklahoma and Duke the most this season, probably 5-6 times each. Actually I still haven't seen full Villanova-Oklahoma game, so I don't judge Buddy based on his worst game of the season. Again everyone is a winner or tough warrior, until he isn't, but I don't see elite scoring skillset. Hield has a very quick release, so maybe he'll become Curry of SGs, when even a little window of opportunity will result in a shot. I guess, we'll see, who was right, in 2-3 years.
I didn't mean to be so harsh. Went back and re-read what I posted and I could have been more tactful. Sorry! Look, Hield has some weaknesses, I don't deny that. Where you lost me was with the Jodie Meeks comment. What I like about Hield is that he improved his skill set every year, and especially last year where he made a huge jump in productivity. That doesn't make him a superstar in the NBA. But it bodes well for his future. I do think you have to take some things into consideration when comparing players like J. Murray and Hield. Murray is a freshman, and to get a more accurate comparison between the two, it would be more fair to compare Hield's freshman year with Murray's.
When you do that, suddenly Murray looks a lot better. So it's fair to say that right now, Hield is probably the better player, but three years from now, Murray may be a star and Hield might still be a nice rotational player. Hard to say. Both guys have solid work ethics, and Murray had to make some adjustments this past season. He went from having the ball in his hands, to playing off the ball, and in the long run, that's probably going to help him. One thing is for sure, both players are deadly shooters, and there were games when Hield almost looked like Stepf Curry, throwing up some ridiculous shots that went in. So in the immediate, both guys can step in and hit spot ups and come off screens, although I think Murray is a little better off screens than Hield. No doubt Hield needs to improve his handle, and I have no doubt he will. Murray needs to improve his change of speeds and hesitation moves.
I think Hield has better physical tools to become a good defender, and while his defense was spotty this past season, that's not unusual in college for a player that's being asked to carry most of the offensive load. He won't be the number one, or two, and probably the number three option in the NBA. He won't be the focus of the other teams deffense. All this is probably moot, since I doubt that either he or Murray will be there when the Kings pick.
Makes poor decisions and turns the ball over?
I partially kid. I thought he made a lot of strides over the course of the season, but he's not a reliable outside threat at this point. He's pretty good at getting to the rim, and he's a good defender when he puts out the effort. But he's a lot of projection right now, and perhaps a bit less substance than some of the other top guys like Dunn and Hield who are upperclassmen.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Do you take Brown if Dunn, Hield, Murray are off the board?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Early in the season I thought that Ellenson was one of the best players I saw play. Of course as the season progressed, other teams were more prepared for him and he had to work harder. His measurements surprised me a little. Especially his wingspan. At the Nike summit I think he measured out with a 6'11.5"wingspan. Now he's up to a tick over 7'2". He has the skill set of a PF, but has the size to switch over and play some center. If some of the top players are gone, its possible that the Kings might take a look at him. Of course is they were to draft him then Koufos would be expendable, especially if they acquire Anderson in freeagency. Ellenson wouldn't get many minutes with Anderson, Cousins and Willie taking up most of the minutes, but that might be for the best. No pressure, and he's there for any emergency's that might arise.
His perceived weakness is whether he'll be able to defend at the next level. If anyone can figure that out, it's Joerger. He developed one of the best interior defenses in the league, and he did it with two players that can't jump, and who aren't particularly athletic.
Ellenson as a stretch 4/5 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. The idea would be that in time he could fill a Ryan Anderson like role off the bench. Stretch the floor, be a scorer with the second unit etc. He's not one of my favorite prospects in this draft but I can see some logic depending on who is (or rather who isn't) available when the Kings draft
I can't see Denver taking Poeltl with Jokic and Nurkic already creating a minutes crunch at C.
If the draft order were to stay as is (has that ever happened) then I think it comes down to either NO taking Poeltl over Dunn and/or a team ahead of the Kings grabbing Ellenson - maybe MIN?
But depending on how the lottery shakes out it could be a lot less likely. If the Lakers get pushed out of the top 3 and Philly gets their pick I could see the 76ers taking Dunn at #4.
For that matter the Kings could end up with the 4th pick. And I'd think Dunn would probably be the right pick in that case.
Things will get a little clearer after the Lottery.
It is so weird that we could "move up" to the #4 pick. This violates everything we "know" about the lottery. Yet, that's exactly the way it stands.
Edit: For the record - I hadn't really considered doing the calculation to see what our new odds are of moving up into each slot, but after this post it occurred to me that I should.
Our new odds, taking into account the Sixers' option to swap are:
#1 - none
#2 - 1.1%
#3 - 2.3%
#4 - 3.4%
#5-7 - none
#8 - 72.4%
#9 - 19.7%
#10 - 1.1%
#11 - 0.01%
#12-14 - none
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It's hard to figure out what the Nuggets want. They're pretty set at every position, but I could see them trying to improve SG. However, PG is a possibility if they're wary on Mudiay's development.
I know there's several people here who suggested that the Pelicans pick Poeltl, why? The Pelicans already have Asik who is a passable 20mpg player. The Pelicans desperately need a PG or SG. I think they draft one of Hield/Dunn/Murray, and maybe Brown. Stranger things have happened.
I don't think Brown would be a good fit for the Kings. He's more of a project, and Joerger hasn't really developed any players under his wing. If Brown is there at 8, I think there would be A LOT of teams calling to move up. Similar to Justise Winslow last year. It would be a difficult decision.
I think I would.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
My board looks as follows; Dunn, Poeltl, Luwawu
I don't think the Pelicans necessarily take Poeltl either but unless one of Poeltl, Ellenson or Chriss (or some other prospect rising fast) gets taken in the first seven picks there's no way Dunn lasts to 8.
Joerger sent a huge number of guys from the minor leagues - something like 18 guys in five years. He wasn't given many young guys to develop in his 3 years as Memphis' head coach but I believe he does know how to help young/unpolished players improve.
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones
Washington forward Marquese Chriss will meet w/ the Kings tomorrow. Said his favorite player is Rudy Gay.
Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN 6h6 hours ago
NBA combine: Former Washington forward Marquese Chriss said he compares his game to Rudy Gay.
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones 4h4 hours ago
Chriss said it's a "misconception" that he's immature and hopes to show teams that he's grown up a lot.
Nick Whalen @wha1en 6h6 hours ago
Marquese Chriss is strong interview, well-spoken. Says working on shooting has been his biggest priority.
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones 5h5 hours ago
Cal forward Jaylen Brown said his interview with the Kings was fun, Vlade and Peja joked and kept the mood light and less stressful
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones 5h5 hours ago
Brown said the Kings seemed interested in getting to know him in a relaxed atmosphere rather than keeping it tense
Washington forward Marquese Chriss will meet w/ the Kings tomorrow. Said his favorite player is Rudy Gay.
Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN 6h6 hours ago
NBA combine: Former Washington forward Marquese Chriss said he compares his game to Rudy Gay.
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones 4h4 hours ago
Chriss said it's a "misconception" that he's immature and hopes to show teams that he's grown up a lot.
Nick Whalen @wha1en 6h6 hours ago
Marquese Chriss is strong interview, well-spoken. Says working on shooting has been his biggest priority.
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones 5h5 hours ago
Cal forward Jaylen Brown said his interview with the Kings was fun, Vlade and Peja joked and kept the mood light and less stressful
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones 5h5 hours ago
Brown said the Kings seemed interested in getting to know him in a relaxed atmosphere rather than keeping it tense
ElRey
Starter
Didn't know Marquese Chriss is actually from Sacramento...hmmm
Just checked out Draft Express profile on him...Though he's listed as PF, his body and game looks more like a SF , similar to Kevin Durant.
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Chriss would be the perfect fit next to Cousins. His biggest knock is that he hasn't been playing basketball for very long, so he might be behind in the learning cure. This leads to people questioning his feel for the game, which can be supported by lack of assists this season. His 2nd biggest knock is defensive rebounding. He's just not a good rebounder mostly due to his lack of strength and boxing out ability. His 3rd biggest knock is immaturity, some people have questioned that a lot about him. Another weakness is that he's not disciplined on D.
His ceiling is arguably one of the highest. He's still currently only 18. Most of his problems can be fixed in the NBA. Lack of feel might be the hardest one, but everything else is there.
If I'm the GM of the Kings, I'd gamble on him at 8. However, I'm not the GM, and I don't think Vlade would take that risk. Last year, he said he liked Porzingis, but he was too raw.... he really inferred that he didn't have any interest in him(broke my heart). I highly doubt it was smokescreen, because he wound up drafting the most NBA ready player in WCS. I guess I could see the same with Chriss.
Great graphic by @KevinOConnorNBA
https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/1U...chorus_asset/file/6388487/Chriss_Report.0.png
ElRey
Starter
Lol I missed that discussion earlier. Thanks.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Might be behind the learning curve. You know, lets be honest here. I really, really like the potential that Chriss has, but the dude isn't ready to step onto an NBA floor right now and contribute, unless I missed something during the past season. Now I don't have any objections to the Kings drafting him, but I think everyone needs to know that he's very raw and that it will take some time for him to get up to speed. He has the potential, with emphasis on the word potential, to be a very good two way stretch four PF in the league. He really needs to work on his rebounding ball handling and court awareness.
For everyone that thinks he might be a perfect fit next to Cousins, I thought Willie Cauley-Stein was the perfect fit next to Cousins. Do we want to take on a project for a position where we don't have a need? Just asking. Now if you think he's the best player available, then go for it. He's a bright well spoken kid, but so is Jaylen Brown, who is also a project. What makes Chriss a better choice than Brown? Just asking!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
He can't shoot like Scola. The one thing that Sabonis can do well that might translate to the NBA level is rebound. And he has a noxe for the ball. He has very little game away from the basket, Although he did start to show a jumpshot last season. He's not a great post player with a lot of flashy dropsteps or spin moves. He relied on his strength and determination in the post. Not sure that will translate to the NBA. He's not very athletic either. I doubt that he'll ever be a starter in the NBA. He is a smart player and if he had been blessed with either his fathers size, or with some athleticism, he'd be a lot higher on my list.
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