2016 NBA Draft Discussion

[bajaden]

Length and athleticism you say?

PG Kris Dunn:

• 6'4
• 205lbs
• 6'9.5wingspan
• Athleticism(1-10): 9
• 22years old

• • Pros:
    • Great defender
    • Good passing ability
    • Getting to, and finishing at the rim
    • Drawing Contact
    • High motor/Effort
    • Rebounding

• • Cons:
    • Inconsistent shooter
    • Decision Making
    • Turnover Prone
    • 2 shoulder injuries during college
      
    • Rawness at 22?

PG Wade Baldwin IV

• 6'3
• 201lbs
• 6'11. 25" wingspan
• Athleticism (1-10): 7.5
• 20years old

• • Pros:
    • Elite shooter
    • Willing Passer
    • Drawing contact
    • Great defensive potential
    • Ability to play off-ball

• • Cons:
    • Lacks advanced dribbles
    • Struggles finishing around the rim
    • Becomes disengaged at times, and doesn't play with a high motor
    • Late boomer

PG Dejounte Murray (unofficial measurements)

• 6'4.5 (UW Bio)
• 170lbs (UW Bio)
• 6'9.5" wingspan (2014 Nike Hoop)
• Athleticism: 8
• 19 yearsold

• • Pros:
    • Great handles
    • Great leadership and extremely aggressive
    • Scoring ability
    • Mid range jumper
    • Great defensive potential
    • Rebounding
    • Makes the right passes

• • Cons:
    • Extremely inconsistent shooter
    • Can't hit the 3pt shot consistently
      
    • Below average playmaker
      
    • Poor decision making
    • Turnover prone
      
    • Can't finish around the rim, nor can he draw contact

Simplified, but fairly accurate. I think it should be noted that in Dunn's case, his three point percentage went from 28% his freshman year, to 35% his sophmore year, to 37% his junior year. Which bodes well for the future. I have no doubts about his ability. My biggest concern would be getting a clean bill of health from the team doctors. He showed no ill effects from past injuries his past season, but you never know. Some things end up being chronic. I'd like just enough question for him to drop to us at eight.

 

[bajaden]

Just from reading that quick write up, I think we can all see why Dunn is by far, the superior PG. My only major concern with him is his rawness. I compare it to a rookie Elfrid Payton, but a much better shooter. He's already 22 though. Payton was 20. Even with this being said, if he can improve on his shooting and playmaking, he can become an elite all around PG.

Looking at Baldwin IV, he fits the perfect mold of combo guards today. He can shoot lights out, handle the ball, and facilitate. Pair this up with his tremendous defensive upside. If he can improve on his handling and playmaking, I think he has potential to become a top 5 PG. With that being said, he's not assertive enough. Hopefully that's a mental aspect that gets washed away after his 1st year.

Murray is the most aggressive player out of this group, but he's more of a question mark. While he's a great ball handler, he doesn't do a good job at finishing around the rim like Tyreke did. His only major scoring strength is from the mid range. Lots of question marks around him. He arguably has the highest upside, and is only 19. High upside= gigantic project. You're talking about improving his jumper, finishing ability, playmaking ability, etc. Dunn has the playmaking and finishing. Baldwin has the jumper. Murray is the one with the intangibles.

There aren't any super athletic/lengthy SGs in this draft. I don't consider Luawu a SG because you have to be able to shoot...in order to be a SG. Hield has average length and athleticism, nothing that pops out. Brown is a SF. Beasley like Hield, is pretty average.

Honorable mention: 6'1 200lb 6'5.5" wingspan Demetrius Jackson is the most athletic PG. He dunks like he's Westbrook, and plays like a combo of Bledsoe/Lowry.... Unfortunately, he only has average size...or maybe 6'1 is considered undersized now? Curry: 6'3, Lillard: 6'3, Westbrook: 6'3, Wall: 6'4, Jackson: 6'3, Kyrie: 6'3.

Not sure where your getting this rawness from in regards to Dunn. One of the things that scouts like about him, is that he's more experienced than the other PG's in the draft. The only rawness I can attest to is that he hasn't played the PG position as long as some of the others, but to my mind, it's his best position. He seems to have the right mind set for the position, and for the most part, is more inclined to pass, than to shoot. I saw games where he only took two or three shots in the first half trying to get his teammates involved, and then in the second half, he would take over and score 15 or so points. He only had one go to guy on the Providence team, Ben Bentil.

In short, I would say that yes, he still has some learning to do as far as the PG position goes, but I wouldn't call him raw. To me, raw means a player with great athletic ability, but little feel for the game, and has a lot of polishing to do on most of his abilities. Jaylen Brown is raw. Marquise Chriss is raw. Kris Dunn is not raw. Just my opinion!

 

[dude12]

Looks like early reports are that Dunn won't be there at 8 but that Brown is a wildcard due to his interviews at the combine.....some star potential but also some rawness to his game.

Denzel Valentine is intriguing with his size, his college numbers jump out, the lateral speed could be overcome possibly as the kid has the strength it looks like...as opposed to a guy like Stauskas who was physically lacking in strength......I'll be curious to see us work him out and see if he's an option.

 

[Hoovtrain]

It appears the Kings are in a bit of a crapty situation if they stay put...seems like they will just miss out on the best players. Hopefully they move up

 

[dude12]

It appears the Kings are in a bit of a poopooty situation if they stay put...seems like they will just miss out on the best players. Hopefully they move up

Maybe, but every year there are teams that do well in the draft and/or guys are better than the lotto guys.

Chicago and Portis
Utah and Hood, who we liked

 

[ockingsfan]

Yeah, sadly I agree. Valentine is someone that has made the most out of what he has. He's a very good shooter, and a terrific passer with great court vision. But defensively, he's a huge liability. He has zero lateral quickness. He certainly puts out the effort, but he couldn't guard in college, how so you think he'll do in the NBA? I wish I could say something different about him because I really liked watching him play. He might be a decent fit on a contending team that could spot him in games. But the Kings need a guy that can start, and I don't think he's it.

Denzel Valentine actually had a top 5 agility test at 10.51 seconds at the NBA Combine.

He has more lateral quickness than most thought.

I still think he will be a crafty Shooting Guard in the NBA. He is one of the best shooters in the draft and has great handles.

 

[bajaden]

Maybe, but every year there are teams that do well in the draft and/or guys are better than the lotto guys.

Chicago and Portis
Utah and Hood, who we liked

Every one of the Warriors core players was drafted 7th or below. Curry 7th, Barnes 7th, Thompson 11th, Ezeli 30th, Green 35th. The only core player that was drafted high was Bogut, who they didn't draft. But he was the 1st pick in the draft.

 

[bajaden]

Denzel Valentine actually had a top 5 agility test at 10.51 seconds at the NBA Combine.

He has more lateral quickness than most thought.

I still think he will be a crafty Shooting Guard in the NBA. He is one of the best shooters in the draft and has great handles.

While it's nice to put up a good numbers in those drills, I go more on the eye test, and simply didn't do a good job of guarding his man. A lot of it is instinctive. Some players have a good feel for it, and some don't. And sometimes it doesn't have anything to do with lateral quickness. If you ever watched Aaron Craft guard someone, he's amazing. It's as though he knows where your going before you do. Yes he has decent lateral quickness, but his instincts are off the chart.

 

[roasthawg]

Denzel Valentine actually had a top 5 agility test at 10.51 seconds at the NBA Combine.

He has more lateral quickness than most thought.

I still think he will be a crafty Shooting Guard in the NBA. He is one of the best shooters in the draft and has great handles.

As things stand now he's the guy I'm hoping we grab at eight. I feel like Valentine has the highest upside of any of the guys we'll have a shot at.

 

[ParniValjak]

Wouldn't surprise me if we trade the pick for a proven vet. If we keep it, I think out hope is Dunn but I think we will end up drafting Valentine.

 

[KingMilz]

While it's nice to put up a good numbers in those drills, I go more on the eye test, and simply didn't do a good job of guarding his man. A lot of it is instinctive. Some players have a good feel for it, and some don't. And sometimes it doesn't have anything to do with lateral quickness. If you ever watched Aaron Craft guard someone, he's amazing. It's as though he knows where your going before you do. Yes he has decent lateral quickness, but his instincts are off the chart.

Agreed, according to NBA combine numbers Monta Ellis was the WORST athlete in his draft and JJ Reddick had a better vertical than Andre Igoudula

 

[Gilles]

When Vlade was the sole decision-maker, I wouldn't look at it as option, but with Catanella on board trading down will certainly be explored with Boston and Denver being obvious partners. Taking a flyer on a few players at 13-15 roster spots look like a better use of those, than signing meh veterans like Anderson.

 

[randymoss1881]

Wouldn't surprise me if we trade the pick for a proven vet. If we keep it, I think out hope is Dunn but I think we will end up drafting Valentine.

Yes giving me Eric Bledsoe over the 8th pick

 

[ockingsfan]

Looks like Denzel Valentine was a big Kings and Peja fan :

http://www.csnbayarea.com/kings/valentine-meets-kings-talks-one-my-favorite-players

If the Kings keep the #8 or #9 pick and picks Valentine, he would welcome coming to the Kings and playing for Peja and Vlade.

 

[ockingsfan]

Yes giving me Eric Bledsoe over the 8th pick

Eric Bledsoe is way to injury prone, missed over half of last season. He has missed almost half of the games over his career due to injury.

Jeff Teague would be a better option if we trade the #8 or #9 pick.

 

[roasthawg]

Looks like Denzel Valentine was a big Kings and Peja fan :

http://www.csnbayarea.com/kings/valentine-meets-kings-talks-one-my-favorite-players

If the Kings keep the #8 or #9 pick and picks Valentine, he would welcome coming to the Kings and playing for Peja and Vlade.

It's all coming together! Really hoping we end up with Valentine.

 

[jcwkings]

A guy im expecting could rise in the coming weeks is Wade Baldwin. 6'4 PG with near 7 foot wingspan.

 

[dude12]

So out of curiosity as far as guys are concerned.....compare Denzel Valentine, Wade Baldwin and Demetrius Jackson....haven't watched their games but have looked at the mixtape on Valentine.....his size and build intrigue me, he's a stocky guy....built like Andre Miller possibly?

 

[ockingsfan]

I'm not sure I would compare Valentine too much to Klay - not only is Valentine almost two inches shorter (though I think he's actually a tiny bit longer I still wouldn't consider putting him at SF) but I don't think their games are that similar. Thompson works well off the ball, while Valentine is a lead guard with really really great court vision and great leadership intangibles.

In fact, with Valentine on our roster I'd be tempted to "invert" the guards - play Valentine at PG on offense and SG on defense, while playing DC/Seth at SG on offense and on the PG on defense. One of Valentine's strengths is that he's a good defensive rebounder, so you can have your PG crashing the boards while your SGs look to get a FB opportunity.

The knock on Valentine is his athleticism/defense. My eye doesn't tell me he can't hold his own in the NBA, but a lot of people make that claim. He'll definitely need to put work in on that side of the ball, but I feel like he's got the work ethic to get up to at least an acceptable level on D.

I'd really like to find a way to get him, honestly. Is he the best player available at #8? I don't know, but the consensus would seem to say no. Still, consensus means nothing once the draft is over and I'll trust our FO to make that decision between a guy like Valentine or a Poeltl, or an Ellenson, or a Luwawu, or... It seems pretty wide open.

If you look at Klay Thompson's Pre-Draft Draft Express scouting report and Denzel Valentine's Scouting report, they are very similar.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Klay-Thompson-5490/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Denzel-Valentine-58739/

Both players in their scouting report are said to have High Basketball IQ and excellent shooters but below average NBA athletes, liability on defense.

In fact, Dezel had a 32" max vertical is very similar to Klay's 31.5" max vertical. Klay is 1 1/2" taller, but Denzel has a 1 3/4" longer wingspan.

I think if Denzel is put into the right defensive system, his shortcomings on defense can be covered up with good team defense, which I think Joerger will have.

True, Denzel would probably work better with a non-ball dominate PG like Collison, instead of Rondo.

 

[funkykingston]

Per Chad Ford (so take that for what it's worth) Vlade apparently "loves" Buddy Hield.

That may not mean anything if he's gone before the Kings pick but Hield definitely seems like a pick that would work well if Rondo is re-signed since Hield isn't much of a playmaker and would excel if he has a PG setting him up for open looks.

 

[randymoss1881]

Eric Bledsoe is way to injury prone, missed over half of last season. He has missed almost half of the games over his career due to injury.

Jeff Teague would be a better option if we trade the #8 or #9 pick.

Hell no to Teague dude might not even be better than Collison and has 0 fire. At least Bledsoe you know will bring it and is an elite defender.

 

[ockingsfan]

Per Chad Ford (so take that for what it's worth) Vlade apparently "loves" Buddy Hield.

That may not mean anything if he's gone before the Kings pick but Hield definitely seems like a pick that would work well if Rondo is re-signed since Hield isn't much of a playmaker and would excel if he has a PG setting him up for open looks.

Kings would need to get lucky and get a top 4 pick to pick Hield.

 

[roasthawg]

If you look at Klay Thompson's Pre-Draft Draft Express scouting report and Denzel Valentine's Scouting report, they are very similar.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Klay-Thompson-5490/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Denzel-Valentine-58739/

Both players in their scouting report are said to have High Basketball IQ and excellent shooters but below average NBA athletes, liability on defense.

In fact, Dezel had a 32" max vertical is very similar to Klay's 31.5" max vertical. Klay is 1 1/2" taller, but Denzel has a 1 3/4" longer wingspan.

I think if Denzel is put into the right defensive system, his shortcomings on defense can be covered up with good team defense, which I think Joerger will have.

True, Denzel would probably work better with a non-ball dominate PG like Collison, instead of Rondo.

He also has a lot in common with Draymond Green. Same school/system, both were excellent distributors and good rebounders, both were considered pudgy non athletes who would struggle on defense in the NBA.

 

[ockingsfan]

Hell no to Teague dude might not even be better than Collison and has 0 fire. At least Bledsoe you know will bring it and is an elite defender.

Sure Bledsoe would be great, but the problem is, he is ALWAYS injured.

The only reason he might be available is because Bledsoe is hurt so much. You can't count on him for 60 games/season, let along a full 82 games a season.

 

[hrdboild]

Does anyone know what Jaylen Brown might have said that teams didn't like? Overconfidence in a top 5 pick isn't typically seen as a bad thing and he was projected in the top 3 of this draft a year ago. The quote Jason Jones had from Brown in the Bee on Saturday sounds like music to my ears:

"I just can't wait to get to the NBA and lock guys up. That's what I want to do and that's my calling."

He also said his favorite current player is Russell Westbrook and a lot of the criticisms people have about him (not a consistent shooter, can't play in the halfcourt, plays out of control too often, great athlete but does he have feel for the game?) were the things people said about Westbrook coming out of college too. Maybe there's some smoke-screening going on here because athletes like Brown tend to move up draft boards in workouts and his off-the-court accomplishments are equally impressive.

 

[bajaden]

Per Chad Ford (so take that for what it's worth) Vlade apparently "loves" Buddy Hield.

That may not mean anything if he's gone before the Kings pick but Hield definitely seems like a pick that would work well if Rondo is re-signed since Hield isn't much of a playmaker and would excel if he has a PG setting him up for open looks.

Obviously I'm a big Hield fan. Of course if we get lucky in the lottery tomorrow, then getting Hield would be a lot easier and almost a given. Without getting lucky, then it will require a trade, which is very possible depending on how much you love Hield. I think Hield can fit in regardless of whether they bring back Rondo or not. There is no written law that a SG has to also be a playmaker. There's also no reason that Hield can't become more of a playmaker. Klay Thompson wasn't much of a playmaker in college, and even now, he lives off of his teammates more often than not. So what?

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice quality to have, but not a deal breaker is you don't. That's one of the attributes that Murray has, in that he was a PG before coming to Kentucky, so he's very capable of being a playmaker. Truth is, you never know for sure what you have until you get them on your floor, and get them into real games. I still struggle with the idea of Rondo coming back because of what it might cost, and because of his poor defense. But as I said, for the right price, I'm on board.

 

[bajaden]

Does anyone know what Jaylen Brown might have said that teams didn't like? Overconfidence in a top 5 pick isn't typically seen as a bad thing and he was projected in the top 3 of this draft a year ago. The quote Jason Jones had from Brown in the Bee on Saturday sounds like music to my ears:



He also said his favorite current player is Russell Westbrook and a lot of the criticisms people have about him (not a consistent shooter, can't play in the halfcourt, plays out of control too often, great athlete but does he have feel for the game?) were the things people said about Westbrook coming out of college too. Maybe there's some smoke-screening going on here because athletes like Brown tend to move up draft boards in workouts and his off-the-court accomplishments are equally impressive.

I'm not advocating Brown, but I found this article interesting.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/n...&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nba-draft

 

[funkykingston]

Obviously I'm a big Hield fan. Of course if we get lucky in the lottery tomorrow, then getting Hield would be a lot easier and almost a given. Without getting lucky, then it will require a trade, which is very possible depending on how much you love Hield. I think Hield can fit in regardless of whether they bring back Rondo or not. There is no written law that a SG has to also be a playmaker. There's also no reason that Hield can't become more of a playmaker. Klay Thompson wasn't much of a playmaker in college, and even now, he lives off of his teammates more often than not. So what?

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice quality to have, but not a deal breaker is you don't. That's one of the attributes that Murray has, in that he was a PG before coming to Kentucky, so he's very capable of being a playmaker. Truth is, you never know for sure what you have until you get them on your floor, and get them into real games. I still struggle with the idea of Rondo coming back because of what it might cost, and because of his poor defense. But as I said, for the right price, I'm on board.

No, a SG definitely doesn't need to be a playmaker. But if Rondo walks then Collison is likely the starting PG and he's not a playmaker. Neither is Rudy Gay. Neither is WCS. Add Hield and you've got a team that would likely struggle with ball movement.

I'm on board with letting Rondo walk. But in that instance I think you want a ball handling/playmaking SG next to him to help pick up some of the slack. I'm a big fan of Hield, but that is a weakness of his. I see him as being a JJ Redick type player and perhaps even more down the road and that type of player benefits a lot from having a PG who can set him up.

 

[hrdboild]

I'm not advocating Brown, but I found this article interesting.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/n...&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nba-draft

It's interesting that intelligence would be seen as a negative. Maybe the assumption is that he won't be as focused on basketball if he has other interests? He said in his media interview that he wants to work in an NBA front office after his career is over which I could see eliciting some eye rolls from execs. I remember there being a similar kind of a stigma with Harrison Barnes when he was drafted -- an exceptional athlete himself though he was seen as too tentative during games. The perception is that you don't want players thinking too much on the court, just reacting instinctively, and maybe a player can be too smart for their own good. The only thing I'm ever worried about mentally though is how hard a player is willing to work and how badly they want to be great. If you get that much, your coaching staff should be able to do the rest.

 

[twslam07]

No, a SG definitely doesn't need to be a playmaker. But if Rondo walks then Collison is likely the starting PG and he's not a playmaker. Neither is Rudy Gay. Neither is WCS. Add Hield and you've got a team that would likely struggle with ball movement.

I'm on board with letting Rondo walk. But in that instance I think you want a ball handling/playmaking SG next to him to help pick up some of the slack. I'm a big fan of Hield, but that is a weakness of his. I see him as being a JJ Redick type player and perhaps even more down the road and that type of player benefits a lot from having a PG who can set him up.

We had the 4th best lineup in the league with Collison, Gay, & Cousins as the primary playmakers. I think you're either overestimating the value of playmaking or underestimating the amount of playmaking we have between them.