2016 NBA Draft Discussion

Sorry if I'm late to the party on this one but I saw this concerning quote from Bogdanovic

"But I rejected Phoenix Suns’ offer because, let’s be honest, I don’t want to go to NBA without a Euroleague trophy"

Does his team have a shot this year to win? I assumed Vlade possibly had some inside info and knew Bogdanovic wanted to come over next season. When do people expect him to be in the NBA by? Sorry if this has already been discussed
I think he's going to change his mind once he is no longer bound to the rookie scale, NBA money (and level of competition of course) is on a different level.
3-3.5 million is about as high as it can get in europe (and from what Iccan tell Bogdanovic is about 1.5 right now).

As far as his team winning the euroleague- I wouldn't bet on it, but they got a chance.
His coach is Obradovic who is considered the best european coach and won the euroleague 8 times, they are 4-1 thus far in euroleague and the roster is among the best in europe with a lot of guys with some NBA background like:
Pero Antic, Jan Vesely, Ekpe Uduo and Luigi Datome along with good euroleague players like Sloukas, Bobby Dixon and Bogdanovich himself.
 
Only a scrimmage but you can see his tools + advanced skill set right there:


- pest defensively (1:04)
- attacks the basket after switch using his quickness + crossover (1:24, 2:22)
- puts immense pressure on the rim in transition, good body control (1:45, 2:48, 3:01)
- transition pull up 3 (2:55)
nbadraft.net 5 of the top 10 picks 2017 are PGs. This could be a year to get a good one, unfortunately our pick is highly conditional.
One reason Im hesitant Gay for Payne is the 2017 crop could easily offer something better.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Our best option right now (short of blowing it all up and starting over) is probably going to be dumping Rudy Gay mid-season for the best deal we can get, bringing in Bogdanovic and one of those rookie PGs as our new backcourt next year, and spending the rest of this season finding a new SF and a big rotation that compliments Cuz. Then we come back next year with a suddenly promising backcourt and solid depth on the front line. We already have too many bigs to play all of them (Cauley-Stein, Koufos, Labissiere, Papagiannis) and that's a problem because three of them need minutes to get better. PapaG and Skal should be getting big minutes in the D League right now. Koufos should probably be traded to a playoff team that needs a big (Cleveland? Golden State?) and Cauley-Stein needs a lot of guidance from coach. Among the cluster of guards on our roster right now, when the dust settles I think Temple is still going to be here on the bench. There's been such an influx of PG talent over the last few years that we should be able to pickup a decent backup PG (probably a displaced former starter like Lawson) fairly cheaply in the off-season. We're only keeping one of Richardson or Ben. That SF spot is a problem though and free agency is unlikely to help us there (anyone worth picking up will get $20 million a year from somebody else) so we really need to find a good trade. Stanley Johnson is struggling right now and Stan Van Gundy is sniffing playoffs so I'd be on the phone with him trying to work something out. Washington is notoriously impulsive -- maybe they see Rudy Gay for Otto Porter Jr as a win-now move to appease Wall.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
For those interested, college basketball season starts in earnest this coming friday. Most of the top teams have a powder puff schedule, but on game of note is the Arizona/Michigan St. game at 4pm on ESPN. Kansas/Indiana should also be a good game. Duke plays on sunday. I'll be starting a game thread on the prospects fourm. Contributions would be appreciated...
 
I think so too but if they're falling out of the playoffs in a month or so and Rudy is still a top 20 scorer, that seems like the type of move Ernie Grunfeld typically makes.
I've been a big fan of Porter's for awhile. I'd love to get him here.

If this year doesn't shake out the way we'd like it to by the trade deadline, I would really like to trade for Terry Rozier/Cameron Payne, Otto Porter, Bobby Portis, & make the protection on our 2017 1st top 12 or 14 while moving Gay, Koufos, Cauley-Stein, McLemore, & Casspi in the process. Is that enough value going out? I'm not sure, but going into next year with this core would lead me to think we could have something that we can build towards.

PG - Collison / Rozier
SG - Temple / Bogdanovic / Richardson
SF - Porter / Barnes
PF - Portis / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
*2017 1st rounder

Looking at a long term fit with Cousins, Rozier, Bogdanovic, Richardson, Porter, Portis, & Labissiere all project to be great fits (all of whom can shoot by the way).
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I've been a big fan of Porter's for awhile. I'd love to get him here.

If this year doesn't shake out the way we'd like it to by the trade deadline, I would really like to trade for Terry Rozier/Cameron Payne, Otto Porter, Bobby Portis, & make the protection on our 2017 1st top 12 or 14 while moving Gay, Koufos, Cauley-Stein, McLemore, & Casspi in the process. Is that enough value going out? I'm not sure, but going into next year with this core would lead me to think we could have something that we can build towards.

PG - Collison / Rozier
SG - Temple / Bogdanovic / Richardson
SF - Porter / Barnes
PF - Portis / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
*2017 1st rounder

Looking at a long term fit with Cousins, Rozier, Bogdanovic, Richardson, Porter, Portis, & Labissiere all project to be great fits (all of whom can shoot by the way).
Giving up on WCS after one year is crazy. This is why the Kings suck! They keep rotating in new players every year and as a result never build any chemistry. McLemore finally looks like he starting to get it, and so now you want to get rid of him. I like Bobby Portis, but he's basically a post player so I'm not sure how good a fit he is next to Cousins. Not saying it couldn't work, but he's not the type of PF you would look to put next to Cousins in today's NBA.

Look, I know this is the player movement section, so were here to talk about trades etc. But we can't keep changing out half the team year after year and not give the players a chance to even get to know one another. It's one thing to trade a player, but to get rid of five players is exactly what we've done for the last few years. How's that working out for you? We can't criticize the team for lack of consistency, when we trade away half the team, and bring in a new coach and GM every year. Just my humble opinion...
 
McLemore finally looks like he starting to get it, and so now you want to get rid of him.
McLemore is a RFA after this season, Are you ready to match any possible deal in the offseason he receives? Are you ready to commit to him for the next 4 years or are you okay with him walking for nothing? IMO this is what the Kings need to be asking themselves now.
 
Giving up on WCS after one year is crazy.
It's not crazy as much as it is seeing how he could fit with Cousins long term. It's pretty concerning to see how much Cauley-Stein has looked in the matter of a year. I wouldn't trade him at this very moment as it may just be rough patch/learning adjustment, but if he keeps doing what he's doing, it's definitely a red flag. Labissiere looked more impressive in his small stint to be honest. Small sample size, I know, but if Labissiere gets close to his potential, he's projected to be a better complement to Cousins (stretch ability, good defender/shotblocker, athletic, faceup game).

This is why the Kings suck! They keep rotating in new players every year and as a result never build any chemistry.
I probably harp on this point more than anyone on this forum. Chemistry is severely overlooked by the average fan, but you also have to consider the talent we do have, the talent we need to have to eventually become a top tier team, and the talent that we might lose for nothing. We can have all the chemistry in the world, but you're only going to get so far if you don't have the talent. We don't have the talent to be that good, so how are we going to acquire that talent? Are we going to break the trend and somehow sign a big time FA? Perhaps Bogdanovic, Richardson, Labissire, Cauley-Stein, & Papagiannis end up all being good to excellent players? I'm finding it difficult to see how we will be able to build a great team without acquiring more young talent that we can develop.

McLemore finally looks like he starting to get it, and so now you want to get rid of him.
Well, you could argue his value is higher now than it was at the beginning of the season, so yeah, what's wrong with wanting to cash in on that? He's looked like a competent bench player, and as Brick likes to point out, those types of players are easy to pickup in FA.

I like Bobby Portis, but he's basically a post player so I'm not sure how good a fit he is next to Cousins. Not saying it couldn't work, but he's not the type of PF you would look to put next to Cousins in today's NBA.
Saying he's "basically a post player" is doing him a disservice. Portis is very talented. He can score in the post, sure, but he can also faceup & take you off the dribble, get out in transition, & knock down threes. His offensive game looks very well polished right now.

Per 100 possessions this season, Portis is averaging 68.3% TS%, 30.8 pts, 18.3 rebs, & 2.5 asts. For reference, Cousins averages 58.6% TS%, 40.6 pts, 14.5 rebs, & 4.2 asts per 100 possessions. That is not too shabby.

Portis' size, strength, length, & athleticism would really allow him to guard any PF in the league. His motor is great and is always working hard when on the floor. He would be a great high energy big to pair with Cousins because not only can he stretch the floor for Cousins and defend quicker & stronger PFs, but he can also take advantage of teams that have at least one weak big man defender. For instance, if Orlando wanted to play Ibaka on Cousins and Vucevic on Portis, I think Portis would be able to exploit his matchup just as much as Cousins would. His 9'1" standing reach and 250 lb body would allow him to punish teams who want to play small against us all while having the ability to cover stretch 4s on the other end with his athleticism. Not to mention his rebounding is excellent and it would definitely help considering we are 27th in the league in rebounding right now.

Look, I know this is the player movement section, so were here to talk about trades etc. But we can't keep changing out half the team year after year and not give the players a chance to even get to know one another. It's one thing to trade a player, but to get rid of five players is exactly what we've done for the last few years. How's that working out for you? We can't criticize the team for lack of consistency, when we trade away half the team, and bring in a new coach and GM every year. Just my humble opinion...
I never criticized the team for a lack of consistency, but I know you weren't directing that at me specifically.

You mentioned the turnover of our roster. I think that is inevitable the way our contracts are setup regardless if we make a trade or not. Collison, Lawson, McLemore, Afflalo, Gay, Barnes, Casspi, & Tolliver could all be gone next season regardless of if we want to keep them and develop chemistry. Getting guys like Payne, Rozier, Portis, Porter, etc. allows us to be in control and begin to develop that chemistry knowing that we basically can keep them for 5-8 years.
 
McLemore is a RFA after this season, Are you ready to match any possible deal in the offseason he receives? Are you ready to commit to him for the next 4 years or are you okay with him walking for nothing? IMO this is what the Kings need to be asking themselves now.
Agree here. I would be scared to commit any long term money to him at this point. But who knows? Maybe he goes on a tear for the remainder of the season... The good thing is that we don't have to decide if we resign him today. We have an entire season to come to that decision.
 
I would love to get a guy like Payne or Rozier here because I dont think we will capitalize on the 2017 draft.
Such a shame that young teams like the Wolves, 76ers, and Lakers who have done well in recent drafts will continue to suck enough to get another high pick in a good draft.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
It's not crazy as much as it is seeing how he could fit with Cousins long term. It's pretty concerning to see how much Cauley-Stein has looked in the matter of a year. I wouldn't trade him at this very moment as it may just be rough patch/learning adjustment, but if he keeps doing what he's doing, it's definitely a red flag. Labissiere looked more impressive in his small stint to be honest. Small sample size, I know, but if Labissiere gets close to his potential, he's projected to be a better complement to Cousins (stretch ability, good defender/shotblocker, athletic, faceup game).


I probably harp on this point more than anyone on this forum. Chemistry is severely overlooked by the average fan, but you also have to consider the talent we do have, the talent we need to have to eventually become a top tier team, and the talent that we might lose for nothing. We can have all the chemistry in the world, but you're only going to get so far if you don't have the talent. We don't have the talent to be that good, so how are we going to acquire that talent? Are we going to break the trend and somehow sign a big time FA? Perhaps Bogdanovic, Richardson, Labissire, Cauley-Stein, & Papagiannis end up all being good to excellent players? I'm finding it difficult to see how we will be able to build a great team without acquiring more young talent that we can develop.



Well, you could argue his value is higher now than it was at the beginning of the season, so yeah, what's wrong with wanting to cash in on that? He's looked like a competent bench player, and as Brick likes to point out, those types of players are easy to pickup in FA.



Saying he's "basically a post player" is doing him a disservice. Portis is very talented. He can score in the post, sure, but he can also faceup & take you off the dribble, get out in transition, & knock down threes. His offensive game looks very well polished right now.

Per 100 possessions this season, Portis is averaging 68.3% TS%, 30.8 pts, 18.3 rebs, & 2.5 asts. For reference, Cousins averages 58.6% TS%, 40.6 pts, 14.5 rebs, & 4.2 asts per 100 possessions. That is not too shabby.

Portis' size, strength, length, & athleticism would really allow him to guard any PF in the league. His motor is great and is always working hard when on the floor. He would be a great high energy big to pair with Cousins because not only can he stretch the floor for Cousins and defend quicker & stronger PFs, but he can also take advantage of teams that have at least one weak big man defender. For instance, if Orlando wanted to play Ibaka on Cousins and Vucevic on Portis, I think Portis would be able to exploit his matchup just as much as Cousins would. His 9'1" standing reach and 250 lb body would allow him to punish teams who want to play small against us all while having the ability to cover stretch 4s on the other end with his athleticism. Not to mention his rebounding is excellent and it would definitely help considering we are 27th in the league in rebounding right now.



I never criticized the team for a lack of consistency, but I know you weren't directing that at me specifically.

You mentioned the turnover of our roster. I think that is inevitable the way our contracts are setup regardless if we make a trade or not. Collison, Lawson, McLemore, Afflalo, Gay, Barnes, Casspi, & Tolliver could all be gone next season regardless of if we want to keep them and develop chemistry. Getting guys like Payne, Rozier, Portis, Porter, etc. allows us to be in control and begin to develop that chemistry knowing that we basically can keep them for 5-8 years.




Look, you and I could go around the block all day long but I don't have the time to do that. I would love to have Portis, Payne and Porter, who wouldn't? I'm not has high on Rozier as you are, but I do see him as decent backup PG. But if we resign Collison and then acquire Payne, we have no need for Rozier, who is another undersized PG by today's standard. You don't have to tell me about Portis. I was raving about him before anyone on this forum knew who he was. I followed him in highschool and saw almost every game he played in college. Athletically, he's a decent to good athlete who knows how to use his athleticism. He hustles on every play, and is very skilled out to about 16 to 18 feet.

But lets not blow smoke up you know where. Portis, at present is not a 3 pt threat. At Arkansas he took a three about every third game, and he's taken less in the NBA. That's not his strength. Now down the road? Who knows? Inside of 18 feet, he's a very efficient scorer, a good rebounder, and a decent to good shotblocker. He's more quick than fast in the post. So yeah, I like him. How he would fit next to Cousins I'll leave to the coaching staff.

You say, or it seems you imply that your not happy with the teams lack of chemistry, which to me leads to inconsistency. So you want to trade for 4 or maybe 5 new players, and then we have them for the next 8 years. What if you don't like them after one year, just like you don't like WCS. What then, do we start trading them again? We've had Willie for one year, and you want to dump him. McLemore I can understand. Even though he seems to have finally gotten it, maybe not. You don't like Lawson, fine! I don't either and I never figured on him as a long term solution. But Willie? No, I'd like to hang on to him and see what develops. What I don't want is to trade him and then see him make the all NBA defensive team in a couple of years. Because that kind of stuff has happened to us. Isaiah Thomas anyone?
 
Look, you and I could go around the block all day long but I don't have the time to do that. I would love to have Portis, Payne and Porter, who wouldn't? I'm not has high on Rozier as you are, but I do see him as decent backup PG. But if we resign Collison and then acquire Payne, we have no need for Rozier, who is another undersized PG by today's standard. You don't have to tell me about Portis. I was raving about him before anyone on this forum knew who he was. I followed him in highschool and saw almost every game he played in college. Athletically, he's a decent to good athlete who knows how to use his athleticism. He hustles on every play, and is very skilled out to about 16 to 18 feet.
Yeah, I probably like Rozier more than you, but I definitely would not call him small. He has a 8'2.5" standing reach. For reference, Jimmy Butler has a 8'5.5" standing reach and he's often matched up with SFs.

But lets not blow smoke up you know where. Portis, at present is not a 3 pt threat. At Arkansas he took a three about every third game, and he's taken less in the NBA. That's not his strength. Now down the road? Who knows? Inside of 18 feet, he's a very efficient scorer, a good rebounder, and a decent to good shotblocker. He's more quick than fast in the post. So yeah, I like him. How he would fit next to Cousins I'll leave to the coaching staff.
Portis averaged 1.7 3pt attempts per 36 min last season. He only hit 31% of them, but it just goes to show that even as a rookie, he has some range out to that far. Hence he can knock some threes down and has good potential to be a reliable 3pt shooter in the future. Heck he shot 40% from 16ft to the 3pt line last year. That's still going to provide a lot more spacing than the likes of Koufos & Cauley-Stein (currently).

You say, or it seems you imply that your not happy with the teams lack of chemistry, which to me leads to inconsistency. So you want to trade for 4 or maybe 5 new players, and then we have them for the next 8 years. What if you don't like them after one year, just like you don't like WCS. What then, do we start trading them again? We've had Willie for one year, and you want to dump him. McLemore I can understand. Even though he seems to have finally gotten it, maybe not. You don't like Lawson, fine! I don't either and I never figured on him as a long term solution. But Willie? No, I'd like to hang on to him and see what develops. What I don't want is to trade him and then see him make the all NBA defensive team in a couple of years. Because that kind of stuff has happened to us. Isaiah Thomas anyone?
It's not an inconsistency. It's foresight to see that the chemistry that might be built in a year or two may just be completely disrupted again with a lot of players being able to leave our team. Acquiring players who's contracts we control for 5-8 years gives us an opportunity to allow them to develop chemistry.

I understand the reservations about Willie. I really do. His size and athleticism are really one of a kind, and it's one of the reasons I said I would not make this trade today. I want to see more of Willie to see if he picks it up because the effort is just not there. You can have all the athleticism and size in the world, but if you're not willing to work hard, what's the point?

The other point was that Cousins is an excellent defender & rim protector. I'm starting to value someone who can knock down a shot more than someone who can help protect the rim. Obviously both skills would be preferred hence why I thought a Portis/Labissiere PF combo going forward might be preferred. Considering both of those guys are long, athletic, good shooters, good defenders, have the ability to block shots, and have the ability to score on their opponent if matched up with a weak defender, they seem like much better fits going forward.

I understand where you're coming from when you say "don't give up on Willie" and I'm fine if we end up keeping him, but I don't see it as giving up when we're swapping one 2nd year player for three 2nd year players. It's not that we're necessarily giving up or don't have any faith in Willie. It's just that we think the guys we're acquiring will give us more in the end.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
I would love to get a guy like Payne or Rozier here because I dont think we will capitalize on the 2017 draft.
Such a shame that young teams like the Wolves, 76ers, and Lakers who have done well in recent drafts will continue to suck enough to get another high pick in a good draft.
To be fair, the Sixers and Wolves are actively trying not to suck but are sucking anyways while the one team that seemed ready to just kinda blow for another year has found success in its mix of veteran and young guards (they're essentially the Suns in that season where they almost made the playoffs with Bledsoe and Goran). I mean, if the Lakers keep this pace up, they're losing their pick this season.