2016 NBA Draft Discussion
- Thread starter Dime Dropper
- Start date
I'm really high on Dejounte Murray. I don't know if he's a PG, but I think he's got a good chance of having a long NBA career as a guy who constantly puts pressure on the defense with his speed and handle. He's so different from Hield, I don't see much of a basis for comparing the two. I finally wrote out my top 15 players in this draft, and the decision to rank Hield slightly above D. Murray was rather arbitrary. Mainly it came down to Hield having more of a track record and a go-to skill. But as for who will have the better career? Flip a coin. I could go either way. It will depend on the team situation they go to and whether they're able to find a comfortable role there.
Here's my board as of today. Definitely some unconventional choices. Ingram's defense is a concern for me -- he's got arms and legs for days but they're sticks and he gets bumped out of position too easily right now. I think his ceiling is a little lower than expected and I like the elite two-way potential of Dunn, Brown, and Luwawu more. Chriss and Murray are both super talented freshmen but have big question marks on defense too so I rate them a little lower. Everyone else is pretty close, it's just personal preference which leads me to rank them in this order. I'm not all that enamored with Wade Baldwin -- his defense was excellent at times and he can really shoot but I don't think he's a PG in the NBA if he can't reliably get into the lane and create shots at the college level. He does have ideal size and athleticism so I can understand other people projecting him higher than I do. It's just an eye of the beholder thing. I can see Jaylen Brown adjusting to the speed and physicality of the NBA game, but I don't see it happening with Baldwin and he plays a much tougher position to learn.
1. Ben Simmons
2. Kris Dunn
3. Jaylen Brown
4. Timothe Luwawu
5. Brandon Ingram
6. Marquese Chriss
7. Jamal Murray
8. Dragan Bender
9. Buddy Hield
10. Dejounte Murray
11. Henry Ellenson
12. Skal Labissiere
13. Jakob Poeltl
14. Deyonta Davis
15. Thon Maker
Here's my board as of today. Definitely some unconventional choices. Ingram's defense is a concern for me -- he's got arms and legs for days but they're sticks and he gets bumped out of position too easily right now. I think his ceiling is a little lower than expected and I like the elite two-way potential of Dunn, Brown, and Luwawu more. Chriss and Murray are both super talented freshmen but have big question marks on defense too so I rate them a little lower. Everyone else is pretty close, it's just personal preference which leads me to rank them in this order. I'm not all that enamored with Wade Baldwin -- his defense was excellent at times and he can really shoot but I don't think he's a PG in the NBA if he can't reliably get into the lane and create shots at the college level. He does have ideal size and athleticism so I can understand other people projecting him higher than I do. It's just an eye of the beholder thing. I can see Jaylen Brown adjusting to the speed and physicality of the NBA game, but I don't see it happening with Baldwin and he plays a much tougher position to learn.
1. Ben Simmons
2. Kris Dunn
3. Jaylen Brown
4. Timothe Luwawu
5. Brandon Ingram
6. Marquese Chriss
7. Jamal Murray
8. Dragan Bender
9. Buddy Hield
10. Dejounte Murray
11. Henry Ellenson
12. Skal Labissiere
13. Jakob Poeltl
14. Deyonta Davis
15. Thon Maker
I prefer tier approach with alphabetic order within:
Tier 2 - a likely star with limiting flaws
Ben Simmons
Tier 3 - a likely starter for years or decent chance to become a star
Wade Baldwin
Dragan Bender
Kris Dunn
Brandon Ingram
Jakob Poeltl
Tier 4 - meh starter, decent chance to become a likely starter for years or outside chance to become a star
Jaylen Brown - might have the second-best ceiling in this draft, but will need all the luck and hard work to reach it
Deyonta Davis
Juan Hernangomez
Buddy Hield
Timothe Luwawu
Jamal Murray - thought about dropping him further
Chinanu Onuaku
Tier 5 - a good role player, decent chance to become a meh starter or outside chance to become a likely starter for years
Malcolm Brogdon
Robert Carter
Petr Cornelie
Marquese Chriss
Cheick Diallo
Henry Ellenson
Kay Felder
Dorian Finney-Smith
Demetrius Jackson
Furkan Korkmaz
Caris LeVert
Patrick Mccaw
Gary Payton II
Domantas Sabonis
Denzel Valentine - might be on a limited timeline of 5-6 years, so I thought about dropping him further
Guerschon Yabusele
Ante Zizic
Ivica Zubac
Tier 6 - might last beyond his rookie contract/become a contributor, if given a chance
Josh Adams
Malik Beasley
DeAndre Bembry
Ben Bentil
Elgin Cook
Isaiah Cousins
Daniel Hamilton - has skills and potential on both ends, but needs new decision-making process
Marvelle Harris
Brice Johnson
Derrick Jones - might have Gerald Wallace type of career, if he's lucky and somebody believes in him
Jake Layman
Damion Lee
Taurean Prince
Pascal Siakam
Jarrod Uthoff
Isaiah Whitehead
Tier 6 - not somebody I care about
Damian Jones - excellent athlete, who got to play basketball due to height
Skal Labissiere - physical and mental midget
Thon Maker - see Jones, Damian
Dejounte Murray - has one skill and a mess everywhere else. If he pans out, it will be for his second or third team
Malachi Richardson - a mess everywhere. If he pans out, it will be for his second or third team
Stephen Zimmerman - a mess everywhere and injury concerns. If he pans out, it will be for his second or third team
Tier 2 - a likely star with limiting flaws
Ben Simmons
Tier 3 - a likely starter for years or decent chance to become a star
Wade Baldwin
Dragan Bender
Kris Dunn
Brandon Ingram
Jakob Poeltl
Tier 4 - meh starter, decent chance to become a likely starter for years or outside chance to become a star
Jaylen Brown - might have the second-best ceiling in this draft, but will need all the luck and hard work to reach it
Deyonta Davis
Juan Hernangomez
Buddy Hield
Timothe Luwawu
Jamal Murray - thought about dropping him further
Chinanu Onuaku
Tier 5 - a good role player, decent chance to become a meh starter or outside chance to become a likely starter for years
Malcolm Brogdon
Robert Carter
Petr Cornelie
Marquese Chriss
Cheick Diallo
Henry Ellenson
Kay Felder
Dorian Finney-Smith
Demetrius Jackson
Furkan Korkmaz
Caris LeVert
Patrick Mccaw
Gary Payton II
Domantas Sabonis
Denzel Valentine - might be on a limited timeline of 5-6 years, so I thought about dropping him further
Guerschon Yabusele
Ante Zizic
Ivica Zubac
Tier 6 - might last beyond his rookie contract/become a contributor, if given a chance
Josh Adams
Malik Beasley
DeAndre Bembry
Ben Bentil
Elgin Cook
Isaiah Cousins
Daniel Hamilton - has skills and potential on both ends, but needs new decision-making process
Marvelle Harris
Brice Johnson
Derrick Jones - might have Gerald Wallace type of career, if he's lucky and somebody believes in him
Jake Layman
Damion Lee
Taurean Prince
Pascal Siakam
Jarrod Uthoff
Isaiah Whitehead
Tier 6 - not somebody I care about
Damian Jones - excellent athlete, who got to play basketball due to height
Skal Labissiere - physical and mental midget
Thon Maker - see Jones, Damian
Dejounte Murray - has one skill and a mess everywhere else. If he pans out, it will be for his second or third team
Malachi Richardson - a mess everywhere. If he pans out, it will be for his second or third team
Stephen Zimmerman - a mess everywhere and injury concerns. If he pans out, it will be for his second or third team
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It's Howard-Cooper or Stein, I think.
There was same interest at the deadline, and Kings were looking to accommodate Ben's wishes to move on, but nothing came out of it. Seems like Kings still value him somewhat. Might as well just give a final try, if mid-second pick is all that's being offered. Maybe Joerger can recreate positive momentum Ben had under Malone.
There was same interest at the deadline, and Kings were looking to accommodate Ben's wishes to move on, but nothing came out of it. Seems like Kings still value him somewhat. Might as well just give a final try, if mid-second pick is all that's being offered. Maybe Joerger can recreate positive momentum Ben had under Malone.
do not know if it was posted, apparently all teams 3-8 are trying to get something for their picks http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=16375671
If true, that makes our "trade pick" story trickier.
On the other hand, less than 48 hours and all this will be mute.
If true, that makes our "trade pick" story trickier.
On the other hand, less than 48 hours and all this will be mute.
This draft is giving me hard time, who the Kings will be picking. But recent reads got me thinking it would make sense if we end up with Sabonis in this draft. First, he'll fit right in with WCS and DMC, coz Kosta is most likely gone.
Second, if coach goes with his Memphis bulldozer combo style of Marc & Zbo, we'll need a good banger down low next to DMC. This kid fits the bill and should be able to contribute right away (
).
Vlade is very good friend of his dad, who is a legend himself. That's an instant big man coach right there.
Well we do need good wing players. But I think the presence of Jeorger will bring in those guys right at our doorstep. Marco (if not traded), should improve at the slower pace that DJ runs. We will probably get a vet wing defender through DJ's invite. He got a bunch of those guys in Memphis, someone is more likely gonna follow him in SAC.
We will probably get deeper guards this year than last year as well. Just because of how DJ runs his team, which would favour a good amount of wing player in the league.
So yeah, Domantas Sabots it is. I would be in the minority though, I think.
Second, if coach goes with his Memphis bulldozer combo style of Marc & Zbo, we'll need a good banger down low next to DMC. This kid fits the bill and should be able to contribute right away (
Vlade is very good friend of his dad, who is a legend himself. That's an instant big man coach right there.
Well we do need good wing players. But I think the presence of Jeorger will bring in those guys right at our doorstep. Marco (if not traded), should improve at the slower pace that DJ runs. We will probably get a vet wing defender through DJ's invite. He got a bunch of those guys in Memphis, someone is more likely gonna follow him in SAC.
We will probably get deeper guards this year than last year as well. Just because of how DJ runs his team, which would favour a good amount of wing player in the league.
So yeah, Domantas Sabots it is. I would be in the minority though, I think.
Actually up to this point only #3, 6 and 7 were reported to be actively discussed, since I don't believe a package based around #5 for Butler talks to be a discussion, more like one-way monologue.
Sabonis doesn't offer anything at all in terms of rim protection, although he does look surprisingly decent on perimeter. His post offense will most likely fail to carry over due to over-reliance on power advantage, that will not be there in the pros. Sabonis is pretty skilled, he just did, what team asked him to do, and played inside all the time, but we just don't know, how effective he is playing face-up.
And Joerger doesn't have the preference for 2 post players, he just tried to put his best players on the floor as much as possible like any good coach would do. Remember, that the last couple of years Joerger worked with FO, that didn't choose him, so its' not like they were rushing to accommodate his every request, if there were any.
Sabonis doesn't offer anything at all in terms of rim protection, although he does look surprisingly decent on perimeter. His post offense will most likely fail to carry over due to over-reliance on power advantage, that will not be there in the pros. Sabonis is pretty skilled, he just did, what team asked him to do, and played inside all the time, but we just don't know, how effective he is playing face-up.
And Joerger doesn't have the preference for 2 post players, he just tried to put his best players on the floor as much as possible like any good coach would do. Remember, that the last couple of years Joerger worked with FO, that didn't choose him, so its' not like they were rushing to accommodate his every request, if there were any.
I think his offense will translate. He looks a tad like D-Mo, but a much stronger post player. Sabonis relies on his back to the basket game, but make no mistake, he's extremely skilled. I think his offense will translate, and he'll even have a mid range J.
You're right about Joeger. I honestly don't think he'd bring Memphis Grit n Grind here. Lots of reports saying he wanted to play faster, but their big 3 rejected it. I think Joegs just wants talented players on this team regardless of fit. I believe he can incorporate them very nicely.
This leads me to think that this could be why we're open to trading the 8th pick. Joeger is NOT a good talent developer... anyone who watched Memphis games knows he doesn't like playing the younger guys. A lot of fans hated the fact that he's never really been able to develop players either. He'd rather play Vince Carter (39 yearsold), Chris Andersen (37years old), Matt Barnes(37 years old), rather than guys like Jordan Adams, JaMychal Green, Jarell Martin, and Aaron Harrison.
Vogel was a great developer, Joeger? Not so much. His track record is poor.
You're right about Joeger. I honestly don't think he'd bring Memphis Grit n Grind here. Lots of reports saying he wanted to play faster, but their big 3 rejected it. I think Joegs just wants talented players on this team regardless of fit. I believe he can incorporate them very nicely.
This leads me to think that this could be why we're open to trading the 8th pick. Joeger is NOT a good talent developer... anyone who watched Memphis games knows he doesn't like playing the younger guys. A lot of fans hated the fact that he's never really been able to develop players either. He'd rather play Vince Carter (39 yearsold), Chris Andersen (37years old), Matt Barnes(37 years old), rather than guys like Jordan Adams, JaMychal Green, Jarell Martin, and Aaron Harrison.
Vogel was a great developer, Joeger? Not so much. His track record is poor.
I really don't understand this "Joerger can't develop young players" thing.
1) Memphis was a veteran team with an established core. Developing talent was not a priority here (the same way developing Gerald Wallace was not Rick Adelman and Kings priority)
2) Difficult to say he had young talents that he under used. The only young and relevant talents I can think of during his 3 seasons were Koufos, Pondexter and JaMychal Green. We are not talking about potential all-stars here...
So I really think it's irrevelant to say Joerger can't develop young players based on his experience with the Grizzlies. Jury still out IMHO.
1) Memphis was a veteran team with an established core. Developing talent was not a priority here (the same way developing Gerald Wallace was not Rick Adelman and Kings priority)
2) Difficult to say he had young talents that he under used. The only young and relevant talents I can think of during his 3 seasons were Koufos, Pondexter and JaMychal Green. We are not talking about potential all-stars here...
So I really think it's irrevelant to say Joerger can't develop young players based on his experience with the Grizzlies. Jury still out IMHO.
Memphis fans have complained about this.
Memphis can be a vet team, but it doesn't mean the coach should ignore his younger guys. Developing talent falls on both Memphis FO and coaching. Out of their big 3, only Z-Bo is out of his prime.
Just because they are an established vet team should not mean they ignore younger guys. I hope this is not the same attitude Joeger brings here. Look at Indiana and Frank Vogel. He already had a very good team of Roy Hibbert, Danny Grangers, and David West who were all in the middle of their prime.
He made no hesitation to bring in rookie Paul George and rookie hothead Lance Stephenson. That's what Joeger probably should've done. Joegs gets a lot of credit for his defensive coaching, but he gets 0 for his development. It's pretty poor.
Memphis can be a vet team, but it doesn't mean the coach should ignore his younger guys. Developing talent falls on both Memphis FO and coaching. Out of their big 3, only Z-Bo is out of his prime.
Just because they are an established vet team should not mean they ignore younger guys. I hope this is not the same attitude Joeger brings here. Look at Indiana and Frank Vogel. He already had a very good team of Roy Hibbert, Danny Grangers, and David West who were all in the middle of their prime.
He made no hesitation to bring in rookie Paul George and rookie hothead Lance Stephenson. That's what Joeger probably should've done. Joegs gets a lot of credit for his defensive coaching, but he gets 0 for his development. It's pretty poor.
Ed Davis, Jon Leur, JAM Green, Jarnell Stokes, Russ Smith, Jordan Adams, and Jarrell Martin.
He does NOT play young guys very much...He does not take the time to actually develop them.
This has nothing to do with how much of a vet team the Grizz are. He refused to play younger guys. Even look at this year's 1st round pick..Jarrell Martin. DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP. He even opted to play Hollins over some of younger guys after injuries.
If it weren't for injuries, JAM wouldn't even get to play this year. I think this is a real concern. We were mad at Karl playing Belinelli too much.
Hopefully he will change his approach. Especially since our current starting SG is 23yearsold, our starting PF is 22, and we will have a 20-22yearold lotto rookie pick.
I would not be surprised if we went after Courtney Lee in FA. Gives us a vet SG who is just slightly better than our 23yearold SG.
He does NOT play young guys very much...He does not take the time to actually develop them.
This has nothing to do with how much of a vet team the Grizz are. He refused to play younger guys. Even look at this year's 1st round pick..Jarrell Martin. DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP. He even opted to play Hollins over some of younger guys after injuries.
If it weren't for injuries, JAM wouldn't even get to play this year. I think this is a real concern. We were mad at Karl playing Belinelli too much.
Hopefully he will change his approach. Especially since our current starting SG is 23yearsold, our starting PF is 22, and we will have a 20-22yearold lotto rookie pick.
I would not be surprised if we went after Courtney Lee in FA. Gives us a vet SG who is just slightly better than our 23yearold SG.
It helps, when young guys are good enough. Both JGreen and JMartin were foul machines with .520-.530 TS%, which is really bad for bigs. Wanna guess, how Andersen and Hollins finished plays? And Davis hasn't shown anything new after leaving Memphis, it's just easier to produce, when a) nobody cares, when your team stinks, b) non-shooting bigs look much better, when guards barely use paint on offense
Teams are waiting for the Kings to give up on Ben so they can snatch him up for nothing. Like they did with IT, Evans, Whiteside, draft picks..... So although the team is trying to honor Ben's wishes of a trade, they also have to fight the team reputation that they can bamboozled. So yeah, they may be getting garbage offers that have nothing to do with Ben's value, but more so to do with the organization's past.
Teague deal is probably of the table..
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Atlanta is sending guard Jeff Teague to Indiana as part of a three-way deal, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Three-way deal with Atlanta, Indiana and Utah, with George Hill going to the Jazz, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Atlanta is sending guard Jeff Teague to Indiana as part of a three-way deal, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Three-way deal with Atlanta, Indiana and Utah, with George Hill going to the Jazz, league sources tell @TheVertical.
With the drafting coming up, I'm pretty set now in terms of the players I want and don't want:
Jamaal Murray/Hield/Dunn - I'll be happy with either one although I don't think any of them will be available.
Jaylen Brown - I like him and think he's underrated. One of the scouts in a draft podcast made a good point - he is 230 pounds and he's still filling out, at his prime he will be a 6-7" 250 pound athletic beast; and there is only a few people who can check him. If he learns to shoot, it's game over. In other words, his potential is that of a star. This is the kind of project I don't mind the Kings taking a chance on. I do expect Brown to be drafted pretty high and all this falling to #8 is just a smokescreen.
Dragan Bender - I watched some U-18 games that helped put him on the map and I'm still not impressed. I can see the talent, but I just don't think this is the guy the Kings should pick.
Wade Baldin - really warming up to this kid; he is versatile and fills several needs. He can shoot, D, athletic, and plays both guard spot. He is probably not a star and maybe not even a starter; but his is for sure a key rotation player and there is no shame drafting a 20-25 min player who plays both ends of the floor in this crappy draft.
Luwawu/D. Jackson/Chriss - I am intrigued but just don't think they are the right pick. I think we get better versatility with Baldin compared to Luwawu and Jackson, and I'm not sold on Chriss. But I'd not be surprised if these guys end up with better careers than higher draft picks. This is just that kind of draft.
Trade - my preference for this pick.
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Jamaal Murray/Hield/Dunn - I'll be happy with either one although I don't think any of them will be available.
Jaylen Brown - I like him and think he's underrated. One of the scouts in a draft podcast made a good point - he is 230 pounds and he's still filling out, at his prime he will be a 6-7" 250 pound athletic beast; and there is only a few people who can check him. If he learns to shoot, it's game over. In other words, his potential is that of a star. This is the kind of project I don't mind the Kings taking a chance on. I do expect Brown to be drafted pretty high and all this falling to #8 is just a smokescreen.
Dragan Bender - I watched some U-18 games that helped put him on the map and I'm still not impressed. I can see the talent, but I just don't think this is the guy the Kings should pick.
Wade Baldin - really warming up to this kid; he is versatile and fills several needs. He can shoot, D, athletic, and plays both guard spot. He is probably not a star and maybe not even a starter; but his is for sure a key rotation player and there is no shame drafting a 20-25 min player who plays both ends of the floor in this crappy draft.
Luwawu/D. Jackson/Chriss - I am intrigued but just don't think they are the right pick. I think we get better versatility with Baldin compared to Luwawu and Jackson, and I'm not sold on Chriss. But I'd not be surprised if these guys end up with better careers than higher draft picks. This is just that kind of draft.
Trade - my preference for this pick.
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I don't like calling 18 year old kids who aren't done developing "mental midgets". I wouldn't draft Skal myself but to just write him off at this point is short sighted. There have been many players that have been labeled soft as teenagers who go on to become some of the most mentally tough/stable players in our league. This is an 18 year old kid who is trying to find his identity not only as a basketball player but as a human being as well. Guys like Dirk and Lamarcus Aldridge were labeled soft coming into the draft.
Also I don't see Koufos being traded unless we get a good backcourt player in return(and we aren't getting much for Kosta). Still he is a solid bench player on a good contract who was out of place in Karl's system for the most part. I think Joerger can get more out of him as he did in Memphis.
Also I don't see Koufos being traded unless we get a good backcourt player in return(and we aren't getting much for Kosta). Still he is a solid bench player on a good contract who was out of place in Karl's system for the most part. I think Joerger can get more out of him as he did in Memphis.