2016 NBA Draft Discussion

Apparently Atlanta is now shopping picks 12 and 21. Would they consider Ben for 21 and if someone like Valentine or Luwawu are available?
 
Well, if Kings liked two guys, who they brought in, that wouldn't last till #59, and Baldwin lasts till #12, #8 for #12, Thabo and #44 makes sense, so Kings come away with Baldwin, Thabo and Robert Carter from this draft. #8 for #12 and #21 works as well, but Kings didn't take a closer look at anyone likely available in the 20s.
Looks like Kings had no interest in Teague, at least a year rental.
 
Gilles said:
Well, if Kings liked two guys, who they brought in, that wouldn't last till #59, and Baldwin lasts till #12, #8 for #12, Thabo and #44 makes sense, so Kings come away with Baldwin, Thabo and Robert Carter from this draft. #8 for #12 and #21 works as well, but Kings didn't take a closer look at anyone likely available in the 20s.
Looks like Kings had no interest in Teague, at least a year rental.
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Sefolosha is a 32 year old defensive specialist on a 1 year deal. Baldwin doesn't look like he can play PG in the NBA to me -- his ball handling is a major weakness right now and that's supposed to be your primary playmaker on the floor. Personally, I think that would be a disaster on par with the Jimmer/Salmons trade.
 
hrdboild said:
Sefolosha is a 32 year old defensive specialist on a 1 year deal. Baldwin doesn't look like he can play PG in the NBA to me -- his ball handling is a major weakness right now and that's supposed to be your primary playmaker on the floor. Personally, I think that would be a disaster on par with the Jimmer/Salmons trade.
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Well, I guess, we are on the opposite sides of the spectrum on Baldwin. No need to argue ad nauseam. We'll have to wait and see. One last remark though: 20-y.o. with good work ethic do improve.
P.S. In the second part of this season, when Baldwin finally got to be a full-time PG, his TOV% dropped from 20%, he had for 1.5 seasons, to 16.5%, and that's over better half of the schedule. Kris Dunn finished last 2 years with 4.5 TOs per 40 minutes during Conference play. Baldwin this year - with 3.3.
 
Gilles said:
Well, I guess, we are on the opposite sides of the spectrum on Baldwin. No need to argue ad nauseam. We'll have to wait and see. One last remark though: 20-y.o. with good work ethic do improve.
P.S. In the second part of this season, when Baldwin finally got to be a full-time PG, his TOV% dropped from 20%, he had for 1.5 seasons, to 16.5%, and that's over better half of the schedule. Kris Dunn finished last 2 years with 4.5 TOs per 40 minutes during Conference play. Baldwin this year - with 3.3.
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Oh for sure. He can certainly improve with hard work. You may be right about Baldwin -- I have Luwawu ranked very highly based on his potential and he's got a lot of work to do as well before he gets there. The big hangup for me with Baldwin is the PG position. I evaluate wings and lead guards differently. What I'm primarily looking for in a PG is ballhandling ability and court vision. After that physical tools, defensive mentality, and leadership qualities separate the good prospects from the elite ones. If Baldwin can't put pressure on the defense with his dribble it makes it that much harder for him to get his shot off and he doesn't have a particularly quick release either. If your requirement for the PG position is somebody who can defend, swing the ball, and hit spot-up threes than Baldwin may not be as far away as I think he is. With the right mentality anyone can improve, I just don't like the odds looking at where he is now and where he'll need to be to excel as a lead guard.
 
Just to shift topics a little bit, but teague was traded for the 12th pick. I wonder if ATL would've done 8th pick for Teague and their 21st, or 8th for Teague and another player?
 
At this point we've talked ourselves to death. But at least we have something to talk about.
Gilles said:
Actually up to this point only #3, 6 and 7 were reported to be actively discussed, since I don't believe a package based around #5 for Butler talks to be a discussion, more like one-way monologue.

Sabonis doesn't offer anything at all in terms of rim protection, although he does look surprisingly decent on perimeter. His post offense will most likely fail to carry over due to over-reliance on power advantage, that will not be there in the pros. Sabonis is pretty skilled, he just did, what team asked him to do, and played inside all the time, but we just don't know, how effective he is playing face-up.
And Joerger doesn't have the preference for 2 post players, he just tried to put his best players on the floor as much as possible like any good coach would do. Remember, that the last couple of years Joerger worked with FO, that didn't choose him, so its' not like they were rushing to accommodate his every request, if there were any.
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I think you summed it up fairly well. He didn't display that much of a face up game at Gonzaga. He sort of reminds me of David Lee a bit. Skilled post player that plays below the rim, but finds a way to be effective there. He's always been a good rebounder. Unless he can show a face up game, I can't see him on the floor with Cousins.
 
206Fan said:
Memphis fans have complained about this.

Memphis can be a vet team, but it doesn't mean the coach should ignore his younger guys. Developing talent falls on both Memphis FO and coaching. Out of their big 3, only Z-Bo is out of his prime.

Just because they are an established vet team should not mean they ignore younger guys. I hope this is not the same attitude Joeger brings here. Look at Indiana and Frank Vogel. He already had a very good team of Roy Hibbert, Danny Grangers, and David West who were all in the middle of their prime.

He made no hesitation to bring in rookie Paul George and rookie hothead Lance Stephenson. That's what Joeger probably should've done. Joegs gets a lot of credit for his defensive coaching, but he gets 0 for his development. It's pretty poor.
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Really? First off, very few head coaches that have a team full of veterans give much time to rookies. Gerald Wallace had to beg for minutes when he was on the Kings. Secondly, there were only three young players worth mentioning, and they were Jordan Adams, who played in two game and then was injured and out for the season. Jamychal Green, who was in his second season and he averaged 18:32 mpg. The third was Jarell Martin who averaged 14 mpg. So they did get minutes and contributed. Martin is a PF and unfortunately for him, so is Green, so they split the minutes behind Zbo. So frankly, when you say that Joerger failed in developing young players, I don't know what your talking about.

Once when Adelman was asked what he thought of rookies, he said they get head coaches fired.
 
Gilles said:
Well, I guess, we are on the opposite sides of the spectrum on Baldwin. No need to argue ad nauseam. We'll have to wait and see. One last remark though: 20-y.o. with good work ethic do improve.
P.S. In the second part of this season, when Baldwin finally got to be a full-time PG, his TOV% dropped from 20%, he had for 1.5 seasons, to 16.5%, and that's over better half of the schedule. Kris Dunn finished last 2 years with 4.5 TOs per 40 minutes during Conference play. Baldwin this year - with 3.3.
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I happen to agree with you. I watched Baldwin play a lot, and I'm not sure how his ball handling got from needing to tighten up, to being horrible. No, he's not Jamal Crawford, but he's a long way from Jimmer. Not sure how you can be critical of Baldwin for his ball handling, and like Brown despite his. If I have a problem with Baldwin it's his inexperience at the point. But as you pointed out, the second half of the season he played much better. Also, there were rumors that he and his head coach wern't on the same page for part of the season, and after they came to a meeting of minds, Baldwin's play improved.

I like Baldwin a lot, and think that in a year or two, he can be where Dunn is right now. At worse, he's a solid backup combo guard off the bench, but I think he can be much more than that. I'm still trying to figure out why my boy Whitehead isn't ranked higher.
 
bajaden said:
Really? First off, very few head coaches that have a team full of veterans give much time to rookies. Gerald Wallace had to beg for minutes when he was on the Kings. Secondly, there were only three young players worth mentioning, and they were Jordan Adams, who played in two game and then was injured and out for the season. Jamychal Green, who was in his second season and he averaged 18:32 mpg. The third was Jarell Martin who averaged 14 mpg. So they did get minutes and contributed. Martin is a PF and unfortunately for him, so is Green, so they split the minutes behind Zbo. So frankly, when you say that Joerger failed in developing young players, I don't know what your talking about.

Once when Adelman was asked what he thought of rookies, he said they get head coaches fired.
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Agreed......also agree with the theory that you can't have more than 2 rookies in camp or on your roster.....and 2 can be problematic also. They don't know what they are doing yet and giving them time or developing them puts you at risk of losing games. Ainge has come out and said he needs high level vets and not more young guys. The guy who has 8 picks in the draft. What a dilemma for Boston.
 
hrdboild said:
Oh for sure. He can certainly improve with hard work. You may be right about Baldwin -- I have Luwawu ranked very highly based on his potential and he's got a lot of work to do as well before he gets there. The big hangup for me with Baldwin is the PG position. I evaluate wings and lead guards differently. What I'm primarily looking for in a PG is ballhandling ability and court vision. After that physical tools, defensive mentality, and leadership qualities separate the good prospects from the elite ones. If Baldwin can't put pressure on the defense with his dribble it makes it that much harder for him to get his shot off and he doesn't have a particularly quick release either. If your requirement for the PG position is somebody who can defend, swing the ball, and hit spot-up threes than Baldwin may not be as far away as I think he is. With the right mentality anyone can improve, I just don't like the odds looking at where he is now and where he'll need to be to excel as a lead guard.
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I don't get how some people have Luwawu ranked higher than Korkmaz. Both are 6'7". both are very good athletes, but Korkmaz is a better three point shooter, he's a better ball handler, and despite being only 185 pounds, he's a better finisher in traffic. I also think he has a better feel for the game. I have him ahead of Luwawu on my board. I guess we'll see tomorrow.
 
dude12 said:
Agreed......also agree with the theory that you can't have more than 2 rookies in camp or on your roster.....and 2 can be problematic also. They don't know what they are doing yet and giving them time or developing them puts you at risk of losing games. Ainge has come out and said he needs high level vets and not more young guys. The guy who has 8 picks in the draft. What a dilemma for Boston.
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Well there is no way in hell that Boston uses all of those picks, Unless they want to draft a bunch of international players and stash them for a year or two. So I expect there will be some movement tomorrow with Boston. I also suspect that some teams are waiting them out, maybe to the last moment. Sort of like draft version of chicken. As for as rookies go, I think it depends on the player. Obviously if it's a player like Cousins, or Lebron, you have to give them minutes. But if its a player like McLemore, I think it's better to develop them off the big floor as much as possible. That's what the D-League is for.

Unfortunately the Kings have been in a situation where they've had so many needs, that they've had to throw their rookies into the fire. I think that can work if the player is extremely confident in himself. Aka Cousins! But if his confidence gets shaken, it can set the player back. It's a big transition from college to the NBA, and not all make that transition smoothly. A team, and it's fans have to be patient enough to live through the growing pains. That's easier to do if they aren't on full display on a daily basis. A coach should try to put the player in a position to succeed. If you put him in at garbage time, then make sure you run plays for him. Don't make him an afterthought.
 
bajaden said:
Really? First off, very few head coaches that have a team full of veterans give much time to rookies. Gerald Wallace had to beg for minutes when he was on the Kings. Secondly, there were only three young players worth mentioning, and they were Jordan Adams, who played in two game and then was injured and out for the season. Jamychal Green, who was in his second season and he averaged 18:32 mpg. The third was Jarell Martin who averaged 14 mpg. So they did get minutes and contributed. Martin is a PF and unfortunately for him, so is Green, so they split the minutes behind Zbo. So frankly, when you say that Joerger failed in developing young players, I don't know what your talking about.

Once when Adelman was asked what he thought of rookies, he said they get head coaches fired.
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Ahh, decided to just drop it. Didn't add to discussion in this thread.

I just hope Joerger can change this. It has been one of his rare weaknesses.
 
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we legitimately as a fan base have no idea how the draft is going to go tomorrow. A part of that is having the 8th pick with our clear consensus picks projected to be taken much earlier and a part of that is that Vlade hasnt given us much to work with.

The finals going to 7 games has taken a lot of the spotlight off the draft and i know a lot of us are scratching our heads as to potential options. A trade to shore up our back court intrigues me indeed and im sure we will evaluate that option further if no top prospects come our way.

In any case i trust Vlade, bring on the draft !
 
bajaden said:
I don't get how some people have Luwawu ranked higher than Korkmaz. Both are 6'7". both are very good athletes, but Korkmaz is a better three point shooter, he's a better ball handler, and despite being only 185 pounds, he's a better finisher in traffic. I also think he has a better feel for the game. I have him ahead of Luwawu on my board. I guess we'll see tomorrow.
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I think it might have to do with teams higher in the draft preferring a non-stash player. Korkmaz has a higher ceiling than Luwawu, but Luwawu heavily benefited by being able to play freely. He had the opportunity to showcase his entire skillset without being limited to a strict role.

We haven't seen too many draft stashes in the top half of the 1st lately. Saric comes to mind, but the Sixers had no rush in bringing him in.

EDIT: I believe 2017 is going to have a VERY strong international class, we might see more stashes in that one. It's extremely early right now, but I can't help but feel like Nikita, Kostja, Harnstein, and even Jeane will rise to the lotto. Big fan of Kostja and Harnstein. Way too early to be talking about those prospects right now, but lots of promise. Both of those guys come with a lot of attitude, something unique since Int. players still get the rep. for being too soft.
 
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I'm going to go on record and say Wade Baldwin should be the guy for us (he's now dropped to 14th on DraftExpress -- a bit shocking actually as that is right on the cusp of being out of the lottery), barring any sudden drops from big names -- if Dunn drops, that's a no brainer. He's barely 20, a good/great athlete with great size, a very solid all around game, and has great potential. He's got things to work on, but which prospect at 20 years old doesn't? He's got a good head on his shoulders, which makes me believe he will only improve his game.

A huge x-factor for me is Brown... he's got all-star potential (maybe more), but can he put it all together? He's got a lot of holes in his game that he needs to work on, but age is on his side. If all the stars align, you have yourself a great player, but if they don't, he will be a bench player at best. Just too much risk, IMO, and given our history of not being able to develop players, I don't take Brown (but it's still a close call).
 
Man this is a tough draft. I can't get really excited about any of these guys. I love Valentine but looks like there's some medical ref flags and he don't be an option at eight.

I'd really like to get Hield but he's gonna be gone.

Chriss would be a good pick but I also don't think he'll be there and doubt we'd draft him even if he was... Too raw.

Murray is a total tweener... Reminds me of Jerryd Bayless.

Brown might turn into something one day but might be too far away to be on our radar.

Baldwin is the guy I'm guessing we'll end up with if we stay at eight. Might be good, most likely a George Hill type I think.

I think we'll try to trade up for Hield or Dunn if either makes it to five or so. We'll see.
 
Sac.Kings said:
I'm going to go on record and say Wade Baldwin should be the guy for us (he's now dropped to 14th on DraftExpress -- a bit shocking actually as that is right on the cusp of being out of the lottery), barring any sudden drops from big names -- if Dunn drops, that's a no brainer. He's barely 20, a good/great athlete with great size, a very solid all around game, and has great potential. He's got things to work on, but which prospect at 20 years old doesn't? He's got a good head on his shoulders, which makes me believe he will only improve his game.

A huge x-factor for me is Brown... he's got all-star potential (maybe more), but can he put it all together? He's got a lot of holes in his game that he needs to work on, but age is on his side. If all the stars align, you have yourself a great player, but if they don't, he will be a bench player at best. Just too much risk, IMO, and given our history of not being able to develop players, I don't take Brown (but it's still a close call).
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He only dropped on their board because Utah traded the 12th pick, so no need to worry :)
 
roasthawg said:
Hoping we can swing a trade and move up a few spots for him or Hield!
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About that...


ClpCBiBVEAE8OdP.jpg
 
Dunn goes #3, calling it right now. I'm hoping for Jaylen Brown to drop. If you squint real hard, the dialogue around him reminds me a tiny bit of a young Cuz. I think they would work well together. Or they'd hate each other but either way, i'm willing to roll the dice
 
notoriousBEN3 said:
Dunn goes #3, calling it right now. I'm hoping for Jaylen Brown to drop. If you squint real hard, the dialogue around him reminds me a tiny bit of a young Cuz. I think they would work well together. Or they'd hate each other but either way, i'm willing to roll the dice
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Brown isn't a safe pick. He's not Hield who will almost certainly be a solid bench shooter and fringe starter in the NBA (I think Anthony Morrow) with the slight potential to be more (possibly JJ Redick) where Brown has the potential to be anywhere from a bust to a 2 way star like Jimmy Butler. I think Brown's physical gifts will keep him in the NBA and away from being a complete bust but whether he is a back of the rotation guy or a star all depends on what's between his ears, his desire to improve and how he is used/developed in the NBA.

Honestly, I'm warming to the idea of swinging for the fences with him. Why not? If Dunn is gone then it's not like a more "NBA-ready" guy like Hield, Poeltl or Valentine is going to put this Kings team over the top.
 
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