Dime Dropper
All-Star
Anywhere I can see updates on people's verts and other athletic tests? My stream is terrible, can't see anything.
2014 Draft Prospects:
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
Gary
All-Star
Yah I saw people complaining about his athleticism in the thread in the "personnel moves" forum, saying he would have a hard time defending NBA PGs, but I had kept saying that the guy is quick on his feet and has long arms and his defense WOULD translate to the NBA. Glad he's proving me right at least in agility heh.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Gordon with 39'' vertical, Vonleh 37'', Randle 35.5''.
Smart with 36'' vertical and benched 185lb 19 times, 3rd best at the combine among all players (for those saying Smart isn't as strong as Tyreke, Tyreke managed 7 reps of 185). He's a physical beast.
Even though Gordon tested very well I'm still not sure what position he is or what his upside is. It's rare that guys with his size/athleticism/IQ/work ethic fail, so I really doubt he'll bust. But I'm just not sure how good he'll be.
Vonleh I'm still not convinced about despite testing well and everybody appearing to love him. I think he'll likely be solid but not much more than that. Admittedly I've seen him less than other prospects so I'm not bullish with my opinion about him.
Still prefer Randle to either of the above. Doesn't fit for us but I think he'll be a considerably better player than both, despite being slightly undersized for the position. Just stronger and more skilled than both and I think he has a better feel for the game. Also has the personality and confidence to match.
Smart is still my personal pick if we stay at 7. You just don't see players with his physical attributes and skills failing in the NBA. On the contrary, they usually thrive.
Smart with 36'' vertical and benched 185lb 19 times, 3rd best at the combine among all players (for those saying Smart isn't as strong as Tyreke, Tyreke managed 7 reps of 185). He's a physical beast.
Even though Gordon tested very well I'm still not sure what position he is or what his upside is. It's rare that guys with his size/athleticism/IQ/work ethic fail, so I really doubt he'll bust. But I'm just not sure how good he'll be.
Vonleh I'm still not convinced about despite testing well and everybody appearing to love him. I think he'll likely be solid but not much more than that. Admittedly I've seen him less than other prospects so I'm not bullish with my opinion about him.
Still prefer Randle to either of the above. Doesn't fit for us but I think he'll be a considerably better player than both, despite being slightly undersized for the position. Just stronger and more skilled than both and I think he has a better feel for the game. Also has the personality and confidence to match.
Smart is still my personal pick if we stay at 7. You just don't see players with his physical attributes and skills failing in the NBA. On the contrary, they usually thrive.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Agreed on Smart, but I'd be surprised if he's there at 7 at this point. And also agree somewhat with Vonleh. On paper, he seems to be everything the Kings are looking for at PF. But from watching him play (which I admit is likely less than many of you), he seems to underwhelm.
Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
Random thoughts to this point:
Jordan Adams--Super polarizing prospect. Stat geeks love the guy. Excellent at assisted, non-dunking at-rim finishes. Top notch mid-range shooter off curls. A lot of threes+ free throws to his game, a la Harden. 0 dunks, 29.5' inch vertical are throwing every scout who values uppity athleticism at a loop. Also a non-passer and non-shot creator, too many steals is being construed as gambling non-defense, and scouts have lambasted his conditioning.
Kyle Anderson--Another polarizing one out of UCLA, with low 2-point percentages and a pathetic dunk rate for size, the basis of the "old man athlete" complaints he's been receiving from scouts. Did improve his shooting, but sample size and body of work concerns give pause. Rebound, steal and block machine, but scouts base that on wingspan rather than ups. Top notch passer
Nik Stauskas--$$$ offense with the ability to shoot outside, draw fouls, post good 2-point percentages and pass the rock effectively for size. Surprisingly average among 2-guards in dunk rate as well. Shooting guard size. All of the qualms come at the other end where his defense is in major major question. But coaching always has the schemes to prepare for this, and teams love players with few weaknesses on offense.
Zach LaVine--Athletic guy, but questionable game-frame. Has some semblance of touch and will leak out for dunks. Not a point guard.
Elfrid Payton--One of my favorites. No jumper, but lethal weapons who can drive to the rim and finish are useful. He's young, steals the ball, and rebounds well for position. Point guard passing but needs to reel in the turnovers, although being turnover prone for a young aspiring point bodes well also.
Javon McCrea--Think Draymond Green, without three point range. That's McCrea. Extremely undersized 4's tend to get overlooked but I think McCrea has the smarts and general athleticism (rebounds, steals, blocks, dunks) to be a plus in guarding certain 3's as well. He doesn't space the floor but he'll also scrounge for at-rim points
Kendrick Perry--Youngstown State for the win. A 6'0" point with a 6'6" wingspan and incredible dunking ability by size, this guy is a thrill to watch. Also plays excellent defense, but he's only 6 feet. The name no one really knows about. There could be Isaiah Thomas potential here.
Jordan Adams--Super polarizing prospect. Stat geeks love the guy. Excellent at assisted, non-dunking at-rim finishes. Top notch mid-range shooter off curls. A lot of threes+ free throws to his game, a la Harden. 0 dunks, 29.5' inch vertical are throwing every scout who values uppity athleticism at a loop. Also a non-passer and non-shot creator, too many steals is being construed as gambling non-defense, and scouts have lambasted his conditioning.
Kyle Anderson--Another polarizing one out of UCLA, with low 2-point percentages and a pathetic dunk rate for size, the basis of the "old man athlete" complaints he's been receiving from scouts. Did improve his shooting, but sample size and body of work concerns give pause. Rebound, steal and block machine, but scouts base that on wingspan rather than ups. Top notch passer
Nik Stauskas--$$$ offense with the ability to shoot outside, draw fouls, post good 2-point percentages and pass the rock effectively for size. Surprisingly average among 2-guards in dunk rate as well. Shooting guard size. All of the qualms come at the other end where his defense is in major major question. But coaching always has the schemes to prepare for this, and teams love players with few weaknesses on offense.
Zach LaVine--Athletic guy, but questionable game-frame. Has some semblance of touch and will leak out for dunks. Not a point guard.
Elfrid Payton--One of my favorites. No jumper, but lethal weapons who can drive to the rim and finish are useful. He's young, steals the ball, and rebounds well for position. Point guard passing but needs to reel in the turnovers, although being turnover prone for a young aspiring point bodes well also.
Javon McCrea--Think Draymond Green, without three point range. That's McCrea. Extremely undersized 4's tend to get overlooked but I think McCrea has the smarts and general athleticism (rebounds, steals, blocks, dunks) to be a plus in guarding certain 3's as well. He doesn't space the floor but he'll also scrounge for at-rim points
Kendrick Perry--Youngstown State for the win. A 6'0" point with a 6'6" wingspan and incredible dunking ability by size, this guy is a thrill to watch. Also plays excellent defense, but he's only 6 feet. The name no one really knows about. There could be Isaiah Thomas potential here.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Isaiah Austin ... I can't shake my intrigue.
He's been around for a bit now. Was once projected as a top 10 pick. Never really improved, but he's a rare physical specimen. He's the sort of 7 footer that actually looks fairly fluid as an athlete. College basketball is a weird thing for guys like Austin. It wasn't made for players of his type to succeed.
Who knows. Not a candidate at #7, obviously, but well worth a flier later in the draft.
He's been around for a bit now. Was once projected as a top 10 pick. Never really improved, but he's a rare physical specimen. He's the sort of 7 footer that actually looks fairly fluid as an athlete. College basketball is a weird thing for guys like Austin. It wasn't made for players of his type to succeed.
Who knows. Not a candidate at #7, obviously, but well worth a flier later in the draft.
Gary
All-Star
Yah the top 3 height guys in measurements were all intriguing if we could ever land a 2nd round pick or a late 1st round pick. They all have had decent college block shots stats. Inferior conferences (Pac 12 is down this year) but they are true centers that can block shots so sign me up for a 2nd round pick to try one of them out!
Jordan Bachynski of ASU -- 7'2 in shoes
11.5 ppg // 8.2 rpg // 4.0 bpg
Alec Brown of Green Bay -- 7'1.25 in shoes
15.6 ppg // 5.4 rpg // 2.8 bpg
Isaiah Austin of Baylor -- 7'0.5 in shoes
11.3 ppg // 5.6 rpg // 3.2 bpg
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SacKings2002NBAChampions
Guest
He's slow for the NBA. Dude, there's no way he'd keep up with any of the elite athlete guards in the NBA. Somebody mentioned him as a possible pg/sg option LOL
Imagine him guarding John Wall or Westbrook. In fact, I'd pay money to see that.
His defense is not even present. I'm not just talking about his abysmal statistics for steals/blocks but rather his man-to-man defense.
His max potential is JJ Redick which is fine but not for a top 10 pick. HELL NO. Pass.
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SacKings2002NBAChampions
Guest
He has lateral quickness which makes him an elite defender due to his elite athleticism. Saying that, he's not a quick player with the ball. So, don't expect him to outrun Wall, Westbrook or Paul on the offensive end.
He'll definitely be one of the best PG defenders in the NBA along with MCW. Similar players.
Marcus Smart can definitely fit on a specific team; however, not our team. I just don't see it. Especially personality clashes with him and Cousins and IT possibly if the midget stays.
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SacKings2002NBAChampions
Guest
Here's the picture of Wiggins testing his vertical that I mentioned earlier, but many may have missed:
And this is why he will the #1 pick. The dude can fly.
macadocious
Starter
Stauskas lateral quickness was measure at the combine 10.79 vs 10.75 for Dante Exum.
So maybe, just maybe, he's not as slow as you think.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
So you want a player that didn't play the point until a year ago, and who can't shoot a lick. Yep, that's just what we need on our team.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Smart posted a time of 10.80 and their sprint times were almost exactly the same. As I said before, Stauskas is a good athlete. Even McDermott posted some good times and a good vertical
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think it's highly possible that Wiggins could slide down to the four spot. Don't get me wrong. I like Wiggins, but he disappeared in a lot of games, and scouts don't like that. It's what caused Drummond to slide.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well DUDE!!!!! Your wrong!!!! And I won't waste my time arguing with you. I spend too much time watching these players all year long. Strange that Smart can keep up with other PG's but Stauskas can't. Considering that they both turned in almost the same times in the sprint and lateral quickness drills.
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SacKings2002NBAChampions
Guest
Some additional thoughts on measurements:
1. Looking through maximum vertical reach results leads me to believe that Glenn Robinson III, Cleanthony Early, Markel Brown and probably Aaron Gordon (previously measured with 8'10" and even 8'10.5" reach) used the oldest trick in Combine history, crouched a bit during reach measurements to exaggerate their verticals. So I'm back to undecided on him, given that he might have future at PF.
2. People are starting to use "in-game athleticism" more and more to underline the fact that numbers at the Combine sometimes don't correspond to what you see in games: Stauskas just isn't as agile or McDermott isn't as springy as the numbers suggest. But it shows they have excellent work ethic to perfect drills that affect their future earnings.
1. Looking through maximum vertical reach results leads me to believe that Glenn Robinson III, Cleanthony Early, Markel Brown and probably Aaron Gordon (previously measured with 8'10" and even 8'10.5" reach) used the oldest trick in Combine history, crouched a bit during reach measurements to exaggerate their verticals. So I'm back to undecided on him, given that he might have future at PF.
2. People are starting to use "in-game athleticism" more and more to underline the fact that numbers at the Combine sometimes don't correspond to what you see in games: Stauskas just isn't as agile or McDermott isn't as springy as the numbers suggest. But it shows they have excellent work ethic to perfect drills that affect their future earnings.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I have a few problems with Austin. First and foremost is the fact that he's almost the exact same player now, that he was when he arrived at Baylor. He's never dominated in a game, although he did have a few very good games scattered in. So no growth is a major red flag for me. He's never been much of a post player, and likes to plant himself outside the three point line and shoot three's. Not what I prefer from my seven footer. He also has a vision problem. He does have some intriguing tools though.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I don't have any questions about Wiggins. I've seen him play at least 25 times this season and when he's aggressive, he's everything you'd want. However, there were too many games where he was just there. Uncia03 and I sat and watched two games in a row with him and almost fell asleep waiting for him to do something, anything, to get our attention. There's no doubt he as all the tools to be a superstar. But unless someone lights a fire under him, he may never be the player he should be. He has the most upside of anyone in this draft. But as Vince Lombardi said, the words upside and potential mean you haven't done anything yet.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm curious, have you watched the combine? Have you watched them do the measurements? The people doing the measuring aren't stupid. They stretch them out when they measure the wingspan etc. But assuming your right, how much can you really cheat. So if Gordon cheats an inch by crouching, that means he really has a 38 inch vertical instead of a 39 inch. Either way, its's a great vertical for player his size. As for the drills, yes, I'm sure almost all the players practice doing them so they can have the best score possible. The problem is, your either fast or you not. And if you not, all the practice in the world won't make you fast. But since your dealing with tenths of a second, then yes, I can see where practicing can help a little, especially in the agility drills.
Every year people draw conclusions about the athletic ability of players, and every year, when the numbers at the combine don't confirm those conclusions, someone tries to down play the results. Having said that, I personally pay more attention to what I've seen on the court. For instance, guys like Aaron Craft, are in general just average athlete's. But Craft is still one of the best defenders at the PG position I've ever seen. He just happens to be very quick laterally, and has terrific anticipation. Unfortunately, that doesn't make him a good PG. It makes him a one trick pony who will probably spend most of his career in europe.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Yea, the reasons you don't like him (and I would agree with them) sort of makes him an interesting prospect. He's more of a perimeter big (who doesn't actually shoot all that well) but the potential for that skill in there, and he also blocks shots. Sort of an interesting guy to stick next to Cousins, potentially. I'd worry about their ability to defend quicker 4's, but Cousins is one of the few players who can mask Austins flaws. The rebounding and inside offense of DeMarcus covers what Austin doesn't do well, while Austin can make a himself into a very good rim protector who can actually spread the floor. If he gets better, obviously.
My favorite part of the combine is the interviews. I've been going through all of them over the past day and a half. It helps you learn what kind of a person these guys are relative to everyone else because you are watching them all back t0 back t0 back t0 back.
I was impressed with the person Austin sounds like. Good head on his shoulders. He's not aggressive though, but so many of the Kings are that his presence could be a good balancer.
Unlikely he comes here, but I'm interested.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Isaiah-Austin-5773/
I used to like the interviews, but as of a few weeks ago they changed something and now no DX videos will play on my Mac. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Really irritating.
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SacKings2002NBAChampions
Guest
You can tell the kid has passion. Aggressiveness in basketball is easily taught. In fact, it's probably the easiest thing to teach.
My fresh. year of basketball in High School I was a super timid player based on my mellow personality. My coach used to yell at me to be aggressive and take shots and by the end of the season I was always posting up bigger guys under the hoop and shooting the open 3 pointers that I had usually passed up on. Now, if I can do it then i'm sure someone like Wiggins can do it- who will be fired up to prove the media and everyone who doesn't believe in Wigginsmania wrong. I pray the Kings pick this kid up. Who wouldn't want the next Kobe/Durant. I mean come on! Parker's max potential is Paul George or a team player Mello. Embiid for some reason I just don't see him living up to his potential and it's a damn shame cause he has some great upside as well but Wiggins is miles and miles ahead in terms of potential. If aggressiveness is his only issue...whooo I fear those who have to guard him in the future.
#Wigginsmaniabeliever
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Years of watching Spencer Hawes tepidly avoid the key like it was molten lava and offseasons worth of "Is this finally the year Donte Greene puts it together?!" tell me otherwise.
I'm not saying its not likely he turns the switch back on but, for every Drummond, there is a Darko. And GMs, in general, are a superstitious cowardly lot.
Three Stephen bucks to anyone who caught that last reference.
Gary
All-Star
The problems you have with him does not mean he isn't worth a second rounder, right? That's pretty much all we're talking about. I have not really seen much of him but the whole "Justin Williams" or "Hassan Whiteside" intrigue is there and I wouldn't mind purchasing a 2nd round pick to see what he has (if he's still there). Those other two bigs that are over 7ft are also players I wouldn't mind spending a 2nd rounder on. I don't think I would purchase a late 1st for any of them though.
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SacKings2002NBAChampions
Guest
Darko is/was a nutcase.
Spencer Hawes was never an uber talent like Wiggins neither was Donte Greene.
Barring injury, there's no way in hell Wiggins doesn't become a star.
Most DX videos show up on youtube in their channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/DraftExpress/videos
Wiggins doesn't need to be taught aggression, he needs to work on his handles. It's hard to be aggressive without the ball...On second thought he can be aggressive even without the ball, given his explosiveness, if his teammates can deliver the ball in the right spots, but that would still only make him Harrison Barnes though.
Thanks, I did a search on YouTube and didn't get anything that wasn't about a year old for some reason, so I thought they stopped putting them up there.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
I like this guy a lot. He's going to make a great defensive / energy / role player. He won't be drafted high, but a team is going to get themselves a steady player. I know I'm one of his only fans left, but he's got the right mindset and he plays the right way.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Boy, I couldn't disagree more. I've seen so many players that lacked the fire in their belly that never ever reached their potential. Being timid is an entirely different thing altogether. That's not lacking fire, that's a self-esteem problem. You may have been timid, but you had the fire there. You were just afraid to let it loose. And to be honest, I certainly don't know what Wiggins problem is. Maybe he's just too nice and doesn't want to hog the ball. I don't know, but it was a problem this season. However, Drummond had the same problem and he's doing just fine. Too bad we didn't know that in advance. But we wern't the only one's that passed on him.
As Danny Ainge said recently, I'd much rather have a player with too much passion and fire, than a player without it. Its much easier to tone done the fire, than it is to light it.
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