2011 NBA Draft Combine - Discussion

I didn't see much blow-by ability when I watched him, and he's not that creative as ball handler to make up for it. You never know, but I wouldn't bet on him.
 
Jordan Hamilton.. I guess people might want him to play SG? He's 6'7 and almost 6'9 in shoes. Figure he could play SF... 228lbs.
He sounds like a smart kid. haha he said he's a good passer.. I knew he was watching him, but not everyone saw it :) He compared himself to Danny Granger.... Don't we want a Danny Granger type player hmmmmmm?


 
Last edited by a moderator:
I had a very strong feeling that Faried was shorter than 6'8". I believe I posted that in another thread where I was debating with I believe it was Bajaden about Faried vs. Biyombo. Had Faried actually only been an inch shorter than Biyombo, then I think he may have been a strong candidate for our pick. It's too bad that measurements can hurt a player much more than something actually on the basketball floor.

Also, wow Kanter is huge, haha.
 
Mister Hamilton compared himself to Danny Granger who also slipped in the 15-20 range where it seems he might fall. I'm still hoping we take a good look at him but we'll see what happens.
 
ElRey said:
From what I remember, Walker outplayed Knight in the NCAA tournament. Since Walker didn't measure out as short as some feared, I wouldn't be surprised to see him picked ahead of Knight. 6'1" with shoes is decent height for a NBA pg.
Click to expand...

All year long Walker was listed at 6'1", and Knight was listed at 6'3". So esentially both ended up being what they were listed at. So I'm not too excited one way or the other. I'm glad that Walker ended up being over 6 feet in shoes. Knight didn't have his best game against UCONN, but I don't think you can attribute that ot Walker. Knight just had a bad game. Just like Williams had a great game against Duke, and then nothing would go in for him against UCONN. It happens. It just happened at the wrong time for both of them. Remember, Walker is a junior, and Knight is a freshmen. Walker has two years of experience on Knight. Compare Walkers freshmen year with Knights, and Knight wins hands down.

I'm not advocating either one. Pick the one that fits your needs the best. But you can't base your decision on just the combine, or just one game. Well, you could, but it wouldn't make much sense.
 
hrdboild said:
Yeah, Vucevic has been a bit of a well-kept secret at USC the past two years. He had a poor tournament game (against VCU) and it was looking like he might slip into the second round, but that seems unlikely now if he's actually the biggest college guy in the draft. Williams wasn't very highly regarded before the tournament either. West coast guys who aren't hyped out of HS still tend to fly under the radar nationally.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that Derrick Williams wasn't very highly regarded until the tournament. He's been up at the top of the draft boards most of the year. There were many of us on this fourm that picking him for the Kings before the tournament. All the tournament did was reaffirm everything we thought about him.

Vucevic was probably the best player on USC all year. I've written about him several times. Personally I still think he's a second round pick. He's a decent athlete and has some skills, but he also has a lot of flaws to his game. I don't think being an inch taller than expected is going to shoot you up the draft boards. It won't hurt though. My point is, the scouts know what he can and can't do. Being a little taller isn't going to improve on those things.
 
Here are the projected lottery guys that have really improved their draft stock because of their measurements, IMO:

Kemba Walker
5'11.5" without shoes which isn't an issue for a point guard these days. Seems in the Rajon Rono range of height.

Marcus Morris
Proved that his wingspan is not only 6'7 like measured in the Lebron camp. 6'10 is OK. The main question about him: Can he play the 3? He says it's his natural position.

Kawhi Leonard
His amazing wingspan of 7'3 should really help him on the next level. 6'6 without shoes is solid to play on the wing.
 
Dime Dropper said:
A popular guy for our 2nd round pick is Demitri McCamey. He came out looking better than expected, measuring 6'3'' in shoes, 6'6'' wingspan, and somewhat surprisingly, only 6% bodyfat. That should help out his stock a bit. He's a big PG with good physical attributes. Think he'd be a very good option in the 2nd round if he were still there.
Click to expand...

I like McCamey quite a bit, and I'd certainly take him over a lot of others in the second round. He had a terrific first half of the season, and then everything went south for him. But if your looking for a very skilled pass first point guard, he's certainly it. He has great court vision, and, he can knock down the outside shot as well.
 
vikinginferno said:
I had a very strong feeling that Faried was shorter than 6'8". I believe I posted that in another thread where I was debating with I believe it was Bajaden about Faried vs. Biyombo. Had Faried actually only been an inch shorter than Biyombo, then I think he may have been a strong candidate for our pick. It's too bad that measurements can hurt a player much more than something actually on the basketball floor.

Also, wow Kanter is huge, haha.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my big question mark all year about Faried was his height. I was hopeful that he was the listed 6'8". However he does have a good wingspan, and as Jerry Reynolds said, You don't rebound with the top of your head. No doubt the height hurts him though.
 
Vlade4GM said:
I didn't see much blow-by ability when I watched him, and he's not that creative as ball handler to make up for it. You never know, but I wouldn't bet on him.
Click to expand...

I don't know when you watched him Vlade. But if it was in the second half of the season, then I understand. But if you watched him play in the first half of the season, you wouldn't say that. He was almost magical at times with his ballhandling and passing. Rumor was that he had a very serious run in with his head coach, and his season went down the dumper after that. You can take issue with the run in and perhaps his attitude, but the kid can definitely play.
 
bajaden said:
Are you saying that Derrick Williams wasn't very highly regarded until the tournament. He's been up at the top of the draft boards most of the year. There were many of us on this fourm that picking him for the Kings before the tournament. All the tournament did was reaffirm everything we thought about him.

Vucevic was probably the best player on USC all year. I've written about him several times. Personally I still think he's a second round pick. He's a decent athlete and has some skills, but he also has a lot of flaws to his game. I don't think being an inch taller than expected is going to shoot you up the draft boards. It won't hurt though. My point is, the scouts know what he can and can't do. Being a little taller isn't going to improve on those things.
Click to expand...

I know, I was one of those people. :) I've been a big Derrick Williams fan all year. But I recall nbadraft.net was the first site to put him #1 overall before the tournament and most others had him in the 5-10 range. If you read the comments when that update came out, the majority where saying Williams would never get picked that high and what a joke it was to put him there. The tournament reaffirmed what we thought about him, those of us who watched him, but it was a wake-up call for a lot of people. Probably not scouts who get paid to scout everybody, but public perception.

And with Vucevic, I think being the tallest center there and looking very mobile at the combine absolutely helped his stock. Remember 2 years ago James Harden was a mid-lottery pick until measurements and athletic testing came out and then he moved up into the top 3. Measurements do make a big impression. Everyone's trying to pair skills with ideal size and length. When you measure out at the top of a very small list of eligible centers, you're going to get some attention in the first round. USC's my team so I watch them every year. I think skillwise he probably should be a second round pick, but he'd be a bit of a bargain there because he's got a pretty good skill level for a guy that size. In this draft though, we'd be lucky if he fell to our pick.

Also, remember we're west coast guys so we can stay up and watch all the west coast games. A huge chunk of the country does not.
 
Spent Thursday night and Friday watching the Combine with BajaDen, who really gets into this stuff. Since there is no real scrimmages anymore you never really get to see anyone play basketball. Very structured set of drills that are hard to see what is the real value in helping determine if someone can play the NBA game or how well they can play vs. the next guy.

Mostly it was the dialog of the 7 guys on the dias: 4 ESPN analyists and a couple of coaches including Len Elmore. These guys provided some real input on who did well and who did not, who went up the board and who fell.

Without a doubt the best big there was Enes Kanter who turned 19 yr on Friday!!! Among the forwards, Leonard did well but verified he is not a real shooter for a SF. Chris Singleton has climbed up the board. Among PG's, Kyrie Irving didn't participate in any of the drills but Walker and Knight did all of them. Talk started about Brandon Knight possibly going in top 3 as 4 of the mocks had him at #3. He seems to be the real PG and not a SG being groomed as a PG. Overall my learning experience was from BajaDen's views on players compounded by what they did or did not do at the combine.

As an aside for the Kings at #7 in the 12 mocks summarized at NBA.COM: Kemba Walker (4), Brandon Knight (3), Kawhi Leonard (2)
 
Last edited:
Vucevic was the biggest winner of the Combine. He is big, long, good shooter, was the source of offense for his team with mixed results though. He's def.rebounding is excellent but on the offensive end it was pretty pathetic - most likely due to lack of mobility. Still he's probably a lock for 1st round at this point.
People who point to Leonard's percentages don't notice that he was THE playmaker of his team with not much help from teammates and still they got to the Tournament and lost only to the eventual champions, were top-10 team in the country defensively. He's a very strong rebounder - Marion-level strong. In the clips I saw his shot looks pretty good with quick release though it looked a bit flattish, kinda like Webber's. He won't be asked to make plays so can focus on defense much more. I think he will be improvement to the 3 spot from the get-go.
 
Gilles said:
Vucevic was the biggest winner of the Combine. He is big, long, good shooter, was the source of offense for his team with mixed results though. He's def.rebounding is excellent but on the offensive end it was pretty pathetic - most likely due to lack of mobility. Still he's probably a lock for 1st round at this point.
People who point to Leonard's percentages don't notice that he was THE playmaker of his team with not much help from teammates and still they got to the Tournament and lost only to the eventual champions, were top-10 team in the country defensively. He's a very strong rebounder - Marion-level strong. In the clips I saw his shot looks pretty good with quick release though it looked a bit flattish, kinda like Webber's. He won't be asked to make plays so can focus on defense much more. I think he will be improvement to the 3 spot from the get-go.
Click to expand...

I think part of the reason Vucevic's offensive rebounding wasn't that great is because he plays away from the basket a little too much, and didn't follow the ball. As his outside shot improved, so did the amount of shots he took from out there. Nothing thats incorrectable. His defense has improved every year, and while his 1.5 or so blocked shots looks impressive, lets remember that Cousins averaged 2 blocked shot a game in college. I don't see him as a first round pick, although someone may take a flyer on him. But in the second round, he's someone I think you'd have to consider if he's there.

I'm a big fan of Leonards, mostly because of all the intangibles he brings with him. But I still have Hamilton ahead of him in my rankings. I'm probably in the minority, but I just love his game. And I'll say it again. He can play defense. Did he do it all the time? Nope! But then he was one of Texas two main scorers, and college is different than the NBA. There have a lot of guys that came into the league known just for their offense that turned out to be good defensive players, once in the league.

In college your a victim of the system you play in. In some cases it helps showcase what you can do, and in other cases, it really hurts you, and even hides what you can do. Derrick Favors is a prime example of a guy that just picked the wrong school to go to. If your a big, and your picking a school, make sure they have good points guards that like to pass the ball in place before commiting.

In Fredette's case, his coach admitted that he told Fredette to coast on the defensive side of the ball so he wouldn't get worn out on the offensive side of the ball. Considering that Fredette carried most of the load offensively. Averaged almost the entire 40 minutes a game. And had the ball in his hands 80% of the time, usually being double teamed on every possssion, with the other teams best defender on him, it made perfect sense to try and hide him on the defensive side of the ball. Doesn't help him now though with the stigma of poor defense hanging over his head.

There are thousands of examples, which includes our own mayor Kevin Johnson, who played at Cal under a very restrictive coach, which hid most of his real abilities. So you have to look at the entire picture.
 
Last edited:
You know what, you can put me on the Jeremy Tyler in the second round bandwagon (although I believe there are only a couple others on it!). I watched his interviews and 99% of my worries are gone. He's matured and he's well spoken. Not what I was expecting.

When you add the above to the fact that he's a legit 6'10'', 260lbs, and cleared the 12ft measurement used in the vertical testing, you have a guy who is worth a shot in the second round.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dime Dropper said:
You know what, you can put me on the Jeremy Tyler in the second round bandwagon (although I believe there are only a couple others on it!). I watched his interviews and 99% of my worries are gone. He's matured and he's well spoken. Not what I was expecting.

When you add the above to the fact that he's a legit 6'10'', 260lbs, and cleared the 12ft measurement used in the vertical testing, you have a guy who is worth a shot in the second round.

Click to expand...

Tyler is a very interesting prospect. The fact that he for all intents and purposes still is carrying his baby fat and is able to be one of the better athletes in the combine speaks volumes of his athletic potential. However, the NBA is wraught with similar guys who never quite seem to figure out how to use their tools. Couple that with the fact that big men are the least of our worries in the draft (hell, we have one of those aforementioned physical-mental disconnect guys on our team already in Hassan) and I don't think we're going to get him.

That being said, I can't say that I would be entirely displeased if we did wind up getting him (unless in a sterange turn of events Williams falls into the second round and we pass on him for Tyler)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Tetsujin said:
Tyler is a very interesting prospect. The fact that he for all intents and purposes still is carrying his baby fat and is able to be one of the better athletes in the combine speaks volumes of his athletic potential. However, the NBA is wraught with similar guys who never quite seem to figure out how to use their tools. Couple that with the fact that big men are the least of our worries in the draft (hell, we have one of those aforementioned physical-mental disconnect guys on our team already in Hassan) and I don't think we're going to get him.

That being said, I can't say that I would be entirely displeased if we did wind up getting him (unless in a sterange turn of events Williams falls into the second round and we pass on him for Tyler)
Click to expand...


Which Williams? Jordan? I'm not a fan of his and I don't want us to take him.
 
bajaden said:
All year long Walker was listed at 6'1", and Knight was listed at 6'3". So esentially both ended up being what they were listed at. So I'm not too excited one way or the other. I'm glad that Walker ended up being over 6 feet in shoes. Knight didn't have his best game against UCONN, but I don't think you can attribute that ot Walker. Knight just had a bad game. Just like Williams had a great game against Duke, and then nothing would go in for him against UCONN. It happens. It just happened at the wrong time for both of them. Remember, Walker is a junior, and Knight is a freshmen. Walker has two years of experience on Knight. Compare Walkers freshmen year with Knights, and Knight wins hands down.

I'm not advocating either one. Pick the one that fits your needs the best. But you can't base your decision on just the combine, or just one game. Well, you could, but it wouldn't make much sense.
Click to expand...

Knight had two bad games when matched up with Kemba. I don't think it was a coinkeedink. Kemba's quickness bothered him. Does that mean Kemba is going to be better than Knight down the line? Probably not; that's why I rank Knight by a hair over of Kemba, but just a hair.
 
Kingster said:
Knight had two bad games when matched up with Kemba. I don't think it was a coinkeedink. Kemba's quickness bothered him. Does that mean Kemba is going to be better than Knight down the line? Probably not; that's why I rank Knight by a hair over of Kemba, but just a hair.
Click to expand...

First off, I didn't put much stock in the their first meeting since it was only the 4th or 5th game of the year. Secondly, in thier second meeting, it was almost a push statisticly with Walker scoring 18 points on 6 of 18 shooting overall, and Knight scoring 17 points on 6 of 23 shooting overall. Thirdly, in both meetings, Knight was mostly guarded by Jeremy Lamb, who is 6'5", and is probably the best individual defender on UCONN. However, on the other side of the ball, it was mostly Knight that was defending Walker. So in essence, Lamb did a stellar job guarding Knight, and Knight did a great job guarding Walker.

By the way, I really like Lamb, who definitely needs to put on some weight, as he looks like a bean pole at the moment. But the kid is a good offensive player and definitely, already a great defender. If you looking for a defensive minded SG next season.
 
Dime Dropper said:
You know what, you can put me on the Jeremy Tyler in the second round bandwagon (although I believe there are only a couple others on it!). I watched his interviews and 99% of my worries are gone. He's matured and he's well spoken. Not what I was expecting.

When you add the above to the fact that he's a legit 6'10'', 260lbs, and cleared the 12ft measurement used in the vertical testing, you have a guy who is worth a shot in the second round.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I mentioned using our second round pick on Tyler in one of my posts. I was watching the 3 step vertical at the combine, and had one of those wow moments when he hit the top bar on the measurement pole, and they had to raise the entire pole up for his second attempt. He's definitely got some hops. I was also impressed with his interview, and the maturity he showed. I'd say he's definitely someone to would take a gamble on in the second round. Depending on what we do in the first round of course.
 
bajaden said:
First off, I didn't put much stock in the their first meeting since it was only the 4th or 5th game of the year. Secondly, in thier second meeting, it was almost a push statisticly with Walker scoring 18 points on 6 of 18 shooting overall, and Knight scoring 17 points on 6 of 23 shooting overall. Thirdly, in both meetings, Knight was mostly guarded by Jeremy Lamb, who is 6'5", and is probably the best individual defender on UCONN. However, on the other side of the ball, it was mostly Knight that was defending Walker. So in essence, Lamb did a stellar job guarding Knight, and Knight did a great job guarding Walker.

By the way, I really like Lamb, who definitely needs to put on some weight, as he looks like a bean pole at the moment. But the kid is a good offensive player and definitely, already a great defender. If you looking for a defensive minded SG next season.
Click to expand...

Knight didn't play well against Kemba on defense or on offense, in the first or the second game.
 
Kingster said:
Knight didn't play well against Kemba on defense or on offense, in the first or the second game.
Click to expand...

I think your ignoring the fact that Kemba didn't guard Knight, Lamb did. And as I pointed out, Lamb is 6'5" and the best defender on the UCONN team. Look, I like Kemba and I'll give him his due, and say that Knight had his hands full guarding him, but did a decent job on a player that was lightning quick. But I'm not going to give Kemba credit for a great defensive job on Knight when he was being guarded by Lamb the majority of the time. Which by the way was a very smart move by UCONN. And by the way, I've given Walker plenty of credit for his defensive abilities. But everytime UCONN had matchup problems at the Point, they would put Lamb on the other teams PG. It didn't happen that often, but it did happen on occasion.

My biggest criticism of Knight would be that he shoots off balance too often, and misses too many wide open 3 pt shots. Both things very correctable. And that when guarded by other points that are bigger, and as quick, or almost as quick, he has problems with the matchup. He had problems guarding Sheldon Mack of Butler, and once again, UCONN put Lamb on Mack, and he did a great job. But Mack, who guarded Walker most of the time also did a great job on him.

This isn't just about looking at stat sheets and seeing who did what. Its about who actually guarded who. Which puts the stat sheet into prespective.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
The NBA buisiness model. Is it working?
Replies
15
Views
594
kingsboi
kingsboi
Tetsujin
Kings NO SPOILERS 2023 NBA Draft Thread
2 3
Replies
73
Views
5K
Tetsujin
Tetsujin
bajaden
Bajaden's real 2024 Mock Draft: Part one
2 3
Replies
63
Views
7K
KingsFanSince85
KingsFanSince85
Spike
  • Poll Poll
NBA Power Rankings, Week of 11/28
Replies
0
Views
171
Spike
Spike
Spike
What Do The Kings Mean to You?
Replies
6
Views
468
Siranthony
S
Back
Top