“THE” Trade Deadline Move to Make…
- Thread starter twslam07
- Start date
Regarding the example where you’re trading for Johnson & DFS, I think it would be a mistake to reduce our team back to only 3 go-to scorers. If we want to be make some noise in the west, well at least need 4 guys who can make plays for others and score with the ball in their hands.
Johnson and DFS are good players, but if we’re sending DeRozan out, I think we need to bring a player back who can at least score with the ball in his hands.
Johnson and DFS are good players, but if we’re sending DeRozan out, I think we need to bring a player back who can at least score with the ball in his hands.
I would do Carter, Huerter, and a first for Cam and Sharpe I know a lot underrate Cam here and overrate Carter but Cams a proven elite shooter and good defender.
If the team could talk DD into a sixth man role (which I bet they make monk do) the team would have a top five offense. The pick and role with Keegan and Cam who is shooting 40% spreading the floor would be lethal. Cam can help Keegan defensively on the wing with Fox taking PG’s. Derozan would kill bench units and would get help from Keon defensively
Carter for Johnson is already a no-go value-wise. Carter and a 1st? Absolutely not.
We need to stop targeting averaged sized SFs and focus on adding some real size & length. Johnson doesn’t address our glaring weakness. It’d be unwise to send out 2 assets for someone that doesn’t address our biggest weaknesses.
You reference being a top 5 offense after adding Johnson. We were literally 5th in ORTG before the LAL game (and that’s with our shooters not shooting well). The focus needs to be on adding size, length, and defense while at the very least maintaining our shooting and # of go-to scorers. Johnson doesn’t really help us there.
We need to stop targeting averaged sized SFs and focus on adding some real size & length. Johnson doesn’t address our glaring weakness. It’d be unwise to send out 2 assets for someone that doesn’t address our biggest weaknesses.
You reference being a top 5 offense after adding Johnson. We were literally 5th in ORTG before the LAL game (and that’s with our shooters not shooting well). The focus needs to be on adding size, length, and defense while at the very least maintaining our shooting and # of go-to scorers. Johnson doesn’t really help us there.
Cam Johnson is a good player. Solid on defense, has had a couple years as a plus defender (in Phoenix). He is a very good to great shooter. He is on a great contract and in his prime. Having said that I really don’t like the idea of trading Devin for him. I actually car less about size than others and more about culture shifts. Sabonis was a culture shift. Mike Brown was a culture shift. I believe Carter would be a culture shifter on defense and hustle. He plays exactly how Mike Brown wants. Possession after possession after possession.
They will both be 32 when they reach free agency this summer (Nance Jr. is going to turn 32 in 11 days) which puts them at the inflection point for me where I think they are more likely than not going to underproduce relative to the cost of their next contracts. My goal is always to obtain players who are on an upward trajectory and are underpriced. I don't think that would be the case with DFS and Nance Jr. And you're not advocating for signing them in free agency (which I might support, if the price is low enough). If we do that the only cost to obtain them is cap space and roster spots. You're advocating giving up additional assets to obtain them for the remainder of this season and I don't think they're good enough to push us into competing this year so this just seems like a waste of assets to me.
We have to improve on the defensive end of the floor and we expect to lose Huerter, DeRozan, and most of our bench role-players within the next 1-3 years. That leaves Fox, Monk, Murray, Sabonis, Ellis and Carter as the known quantities to build around. Isaac Jones and Colby Jones both becoming reliable NBA players would be immensely favorable for our long-term outlook because they also project to be relatively inexpensive for the next 4-5 years at least. This is my preferred way to build -- call it the Miami Heat method. Develop every young cost-controllable player we have and then jump on opportunities to acquire guys who are just entering their peak years (such as Monk and Huerter in 2022). It's less exciting than pooling assets to buy known quantities, but the potential reward if we trust our scouts and player development staff is worth it.
I did make an exception in the case of DeRozan, but I think with DeMar the difference is self-evident. He is not a role-player -- he's been a top 20 scorer for most his career and he's still producing at an All-Star level. Also, I laid out from the beginning exactly why I wanted DeRozan: He works as a short-term boost to our overall talent level, is relatively affordable (because of his poor 3pt shooting) compared to what top 20 scorers typically cost to sign in Free Agency, and he's in a class of his own as a half-court shot creator which I hope will help this team to develop Keegan Murray over the next 3 years into the guy who ultimately replaces DeRozan as our third scorer. Granted I'm much higher on Murray's outlook as a point producer than most seem to be after his recent drop in production. Perhaps this is folly on my part.
I do think both of these guys (Dorian Finney-Smith and Larry Nance Jr.) would help us and perhaps if this team is closer to the 16-12 record that our NetRtg projects instead of our actual record of 13-15 than this is the right time to balance the roster and see how far this core can take us. For me personally, I prefer a more patient approach which prioritizes long-term growth and the ability to sustain 50+ win success for half a decade or more. I don't think we get there without finding more undervalued assets that we can grow into the type of players teams overspend on by the time they reach their age 31-32 seasons.
We have to improve on the defensive end of the floor and we expect to lose Huerter, DeRozan, and most of our bench role-players within the next 1-3 years. That leaves Fox, Monk, Murray, Sabonis, Ellis and Carter as the known quantities to build around. Isaac Jones and Colby Jones both becoming reliable NBA players would be immensely favorable for our long-term outlook because they also project to be relatively inexpensive for the next 4-5 years at least. This is my preferred way to build -- call it the Miami Heat method. Develop every young cost-controllable player we have and then jump on opportunities to acquire guys who are just entering their peak years (such as Monk and Huerter in 2022). It's less exciting than pooling assets to buy known quantities, but the potential reward if we trust our scouts and player development staff is worth it.
I did make an exception in the case of DeRozan, but I think with DeMar the difference is self-evident. He is not a role-player -- he's been a top 20 scorer for most his career and he's still producing at an All-Star level. Also, I laid out from the beginning exactly why I wanted DeRozan: He works as a short-term boost to our overall talent level, is relatively affordable (because of his poor 3pt shooting) compared to what top 20 scorers typically cost to sign in Free Agency, and he's in a class of his own as a half-court shot creator which I hope will help this team to develop Keegan Murray over the next 3 years into the guy who ultimately replaces DeRozan as our third scorer. Granted I'm much higher on Murray's outlook as a point producer than most seem to be after his recent drop in production. Perhaps this is folly on my part.
I do think both of these guys (Dorian Finney-Smith and Larry Nance Jr.) would help us and perhaps if this team is closer to the 16-12 record that our NetRtg projects instead of our actual record of 13-15 than this is the right time to balance the roster and see how far this core can take us. For me personally, I prefer a more patient approach which prioritizes long-term growth and the ability to sustain 50+ win success for half a decade or more. I don't think we get there without finding more undervalued assets that we can grow into the type of players teams overspend on by the time they reach their age 31-32 seasons.
It’s a great point and aligns with a post I made a day or two ago about how this team might need to add a guy like Isaiah Stewart to bring the energy and set the tone. Devin Carter may very well be that player for us. His effort on the defensive end (and on the o-boards) is relentless and I could see that being infectious for this team.
Setting aside Nance for a second since I don’t have him playing as big of a role as DFS…it’s already hard enough to find a team willing to trade us a long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor. It’s even more difficult to find a team willing to trade us a long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor while being on an upward trajectory. Those types of players are rarely available for trade. I think we need to be realistic about how that type of player can be acquired especially since it’s more crucial for our team to add that type of player to this roster (since we have Sabonis at C).
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t develop Colby and Isaac, but I think it would be a mistake as a team hoping to make the playoffs to rely on them as our 8th, 9th, or 10th man when our roster is fully healthy because that likely means our 11th-15th men are even worse.
I’d much rather have stronger bench players in our rotation to give us a better shot at making the playoffs and allow those young guys an opportunity to prove themselves when injuries inevitably come (Monk, Carter, Huerter, DeRozan, Murray, Lyles, and Sabonis have all missed time this year with injuries. Not to mention Carter has been out all year thus far). And they’ve looked decent here and there, but I wouldn’t say either of them have looked as good/impactful as Ellis did last year.
I say continue to have Colby and Isaac backfill when we have injuries and allow them another offseason to develop their game. Then during 2025 training camp, they have a shot at forcing Brown’s hand to be a rotation player. If they’re not at that level yet, have them fill the same role as the previous year which continues to give them some decent NBA minutes to grow their game while at the same time we’re not sacrificing our “win now” goal.
I think saying that a player is “producing at an All-Star level” when he’s putting up 22/4/4 with a 57% TS% is a little disingenuous. The last time he was an All-Star was when he put up 25/5/5 with a 59% TS% and that was in a weak eastern conference. Now don’t get me wrong. Those stats are solid for an offensive scorer but I don’t consider him an All-Star level player as you alluded to.
As for the trade that brought DeRozan here, I want to be clear…
As for Murray, I think you’re more optimistic on his offensive potential than I am at this point. Year 3 is usually when you see that jump and we’re not even talking about someone that came into the league at 18/19. Murray is 24 today and will be 25 at the start of next season. How many players at the age are making significant strides in their game offensively? And I do think he needs to make significant strides offensively. His handle has not been good and it severely limits his ability to create his own offense.
I see Murray (at best) as a 4th option on a contending team but more likely he settles in as a 5th option on a contending team (which is what he is on our team today).
I’m not going to force you to succumb to my trade proposal
but I guess I would ask you…what would you do if you were Monte?
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t develop Colby and Isaac, but I think it would be a mistake as a team hoping to make the playoffs to rely on them as our 8th, 9th, or 10th man when our roster is fully healthy because that likely means our 11th-15th men are even worse.
I’d much rather have stronger bench players in our rotation to give us a better shot at making the playoffs and allow those young guys an opportunity to prove themselves when injuries inevitably come (Monk, Carter, Huerter, DeRozan, Murray, Lyles, and Sabonis have all missed time this year with injuries. Not to mention Carter has been out all year thus far). And they’ve looked decent here and there, but I wouldn’t say either of them have looked as good/impactful as Ellis did last year.
I say continue to have Colby and Isaac backfill when we have injuries and allow them another offseason to develop their game. Then during 2025 training camp, they have a shot at forcing Brown’s hand to be a rotation player. If they’re not at that level yet, have them fill the same role as the previous year which continues to give them some decent NBA minutes to grow their game while at the same time we’re not sacrificing our “win now” goal.
I think saying that a player is “producing at an All-Star level” when he’s putting up 22/4/4 with a 57% TS% is a little disingenuous. The last time he was an All-Star was when he put up 25/5/5 with a 59% TS% and that was in a weak eastern conference. Now don’t get me wrong. Those stats are solid for an offensive scorer but I don’t consider him an All-Star level player as you alluded to.
As for the trade that brought DeRozan here, I want to be clear…
- I think the trade improved our team/roster today
- I don’t think we overpaid value-wise to land DeRozan
As for Murray, I think you’re more optimistic on his offensive potential than I am at this point. Year 3 is usually when you see that jump and we’re not even talking about someone that came into the league at 18/19. Murray is 24 today and will be 25 at the start of next season. How many players at the age are making significant strides in their game offensively? And I do think he needs to make significant strides offensively. His handle has not been good and it severely limits his ability to create his own offense.
I see Murray (at best) as a 4th option on a contending team but more likely he settles in as a 5th option on a contending team (which is what he is on our team today).
I’m not going to force you to succumb to my trade proposal
but I guess I would ask you…what would you do if you were Monte?
Setting aside Nance for a second since I don’t have him playing as big of a role as DFS…it’s already hard enough to find a team willing to trade us a long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor. It’s even more difficult to find a team willing to trade us a long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor while being on an upward trajectory. Those types of players are rarely available for trade. I think we need to be realistic about how that type of player can be acquired especially since it’s more crucial for our team to add that type of player to this roster (since we have Sabonis at C).
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t develop Colby and Isaac, but I think it would be a mistake as a team hoping to make the playoffs to rely on them as our 8th, 9th, or 10th man when our roster is fully healthy because that likely means our 11th-15th men are even worse.
I’d much rather have stronger bench players in our rotation to give us a better shot at making the playoffs and allow those young guys an opportunity to prove themselves when injuries inevitably come (Monk, Carter, Huerter, DeRozan, Murray, Lyles, and Sabonis have all missed time this year with injuries. Not to mention Carter has been out all year thus far). And they’ve looked decent here and there, but I wouldn’t say either of them have looked as good/impactful as Ellis did last year.
I say continue to have Colby and Isaac backfill when we have injuries and allow them another offseason to develop their game. Then during 2025 training camp, they have a shot at forcing Brown’s hand to be a rotation player. If they’re not at that level yet, have them fill the same role as the previous year which continues to give them some decent NBA minutes to grow their game while at the same time we’re not sacrificing our “win now” goal.
I think saying that a player is “producing at an All-Star level” when he’s putting up 22/4/4 with a 57% TS% is a little disingenuous. The last time he was an All-Star was when he put up 25/5/5 with a 59% TS% and that was in a weak eastern conference. Now don’t get me wrong. Those stats are solid for an offensive scorer but I don’t consider him an All-Star level player as you alluded to.
As for the trade that brought DeRozan here, I want to be clear…
As for Murray, I think you’re more optimistic on his offensive potential than I am at this point. Year 3 is usually when you see that jump and we’re not even talking about someone that came into the league at 18/19. Murray is 24 today and will be 25 at the start of next season. How many players at the age are making significant strides in their game offensively? And I do think he needs to make significant strides offensively. His handle has not been good and it severely limits his ability to create his own offense.
I see Murray (at best) as a 4th option on a contending team but more likely he settles in as a 5th option on a contending team (which is what he is on our team today).
I’m not going to force you to succumb to my trade proposal but I guess I would ask you…what would you do if you were Monte?
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t develop Colby and Isaac, but I think it would be a mistake as a team hoping to make the playoffs to rely on them as our 8th, 9th, or 10th man when our roster is fully healthy because that likely means our 11th-15th men are even worse.
I’d much rather have stronger bench players in our rotation to give us a better shot at making the playoffs and allow those young guys an opportunity to prove themselves when injuries inevitably come (Monk, Carter, Huerter, DeRozan, Murray, Lyles, and Sabonis have all missed time this year with injuries. Not to mention Carter has been out all year thus far). And they’ve looked decent here and there, but I wouldn’t say either of them have looked as good/impactful as Ellis did last year.
I say continue to have Colby and Isaac backfill when we have injuries and allow them another offseason to develop their game. Then during 2025 training camp, they have a shot at forcing Brown’s hand to be a rotation player. If they’re not at that level yet, have them fill the same role as the previous year which continues to give them some decent NBA minutes to grow their game while at the same time we’re not sacrificing our “win now” goal.
I think saying that a player is “producing at an All-Star level” when he’s putting up 22/4/4 with a 57% TS% is a little disingenuous. The last time he was an All-Star was when he put up 25/5/5 with a 59% TS% and that was in a weak eastern conference. Now don’t get me wrong. Those stats are solid for an offensive scorer but I don’t consider him an All-Star level player as you alluded to.
As for the trade that brought DeRozan here, I want to be clear…
- I think the trade improved our team/roster today
- I don’t think we overpaid value-wise to land DeRozan
As for Murray, I think you’re more optimistic on his offensive potential than I am at this point. Year 3 is usually when you see that jump and we’re not even talking about someone that came into the league at 18/19. Murray is 24 today and will be 25 at the start of next season. How many players at the age are making significant strides in their game offensively? And I do think he needs to make significant strides offensively. His handle has not been good and it severely limits his ability to create his own offense.
I see Murray (at best) as a 4th option on a contending team but more likely he settles in as a 5th option on a contending team (which is what he is on our team today).
I’m not going to force you to succumb to my trade proposal
but I guess I would ask you…what would you do if you were Monte?
The idea is to find players who their current teams don't know are on an upward trajectory or they just have no use for them regardless because they are tanking, or they have too much depth at that position already, or they need to clear out cap space for a big signing. It's not easy to identify these types of opportunities but they do exist. Finding hidden value is really the only way to "level up" our competitiveness given that we have zero advantages as a destination team that players will sign below-value contracts to join (Monk this summer being a notable exception).
I wasn't talking about DeRozan's production this season -- I was talking about his past production at the time of the signing in July. We got a player who had averaged about 25 pts / 4.5rebs / 5 assts over the course of the previous 3 seasons. That is All-Star level production. His numbers being down on the Kings this year while deferring to a top 10 scorer in Fox isn't all that surprising nor does it make his contract a bad value. Me re-capping a post I made 6 months ago when the idea of signing DeRozan was merely a rumor isn't disingenuous. I just didn't feel like linking to my own thread -- it's there if you want to find it.
This is like the 85th time this exact argument has been made with regard to Murray's ceiling as an older prospect and all I can really say at this point is that yes there are other examples of players who have blossomed from good all-around role players into stars in their age 24 or age 25 seasons. If you don't remember the other 84 times I've responded to this though, why would you remember the 85th? Nothing I say is going to change your mind anyway nor should it. It really just comes down to Keegan needing to prove it himself on the court. I'm merely explaining what my rationale was for targeting an older scorer on a 3 year non-guaranteed deal instead of pursuing those expensive third scorer types (LaVine, Ingram, etc.) that a vocal contingent of Kings fans still seem to think that we need.
I've already expressed what I would do several times as well so I don't want to rehash too much. Some guys I would like to see Monte target in trades (in no particular order) are Isaiah Stewart, Robert Williams III, Jonas Valanciunas, Patrick Williams, Onyeka Okongwu, De'Andre Hunter, Cam Whitmore, Derrick Jones Jr., Herb Jones, Jakob Poeltl. I want young guys or vets who are already signed to affordable multi-year contracts. Dorian Finney-Smith would be on my list too but I don't like the player option for next year. As a guy who is about to turn 32, I think he'll want the security of a long-term deal signed this summer. I also wouldn't stop at only exploring current NBA players. We should also be scouting the G-League and International leagues for young players who might be a good fit.
I disagree that this is the only way to “level up.” Fit, chemistry, and synergy are all real things. Improving the fit of our roster can do just as much for us as finding a diamond in the rough.
I think we agree that there is a lot of talent on this roster, right? I wouldn’t say the only way to “level up” is to add more talent (and that the Kings can only hope to add talent by trading for players and hope they’re diamonds in the rough). If we make some moves that allow us to rearrange the current talent amount we have into a better fitting roster, I think you’d see a noticeable improvement in the product on the floor.
That’s fair, but he also wasn’t an All-Star the previous season before coming here, and at 35, he’s bound to decline at some point rather soon.
Well we can continue to find common ground in staying away from guys like LaVine, Ingram, etc.
As for Murray, I would absolutely love for him to prove me wrong but the odds aren’t in his favor considering his age, # of NBA years he has under his belt, and the lack of development in key skills you’d need to be a go-to scorer. Murray’s handle is a big problem for him if he has “go-to scorer” aspirations, and how I have seen his handle evolve over the past 3 seasons doesn’t give me hope that he’ll get there.
I like many of those players in a vacuum but are they practical for our roster? Are they even available? Does the cost justify the value?
I think we agree that there is a lot of talent on this roster, right? I wouldn’t say the only way to “level up” is to add more talent (and that the Kings can only hope to add talent by trading for players and hope they’re diamonds in the rough). If we make some moves that allow us to rearrange the current talent amount we have into a better fitting roster, I think you’d see a noticeable improvement in the product on the floor.
That’s fair, but he also wasn’t an All-Star the previous season before coming here, and at 35, he’s bound to decline at some point rather soon.
Well we can continue to find common ground in staying away from guys like LaVine, Ingram, etc.
As for Murray, I would absolutely love for him to prove me wrong but the odds aren’t in his favor considering his age, # of NBA years he has under his belt, and the lack of development in key skills you’d need to be a go-to scorer. Murray’s handle is a big problem for him if he has “go-to scorer” aspirations, and how I have seen his handle evolve over the past 3 seasons doesn’t give me hope that he’ll get there.
I like many of those players in a vacuum but are they practical for our roster? Are they even available? Does the cost justify the value?
- Isaiah Stewart: I like him and agree he’s a decent target since he can play next to Sabonis and as a backup C. but you’re probably having to surrender a 1st round pick to wiggle him free.
- Robert Williams: I like him as well as a backup C since he’d likely only cost a 2nd or two, and he addresses a fair amount of our needs (defense, rim protection, run the fast break with Fox/Monk, and lob threat)
- Jonas Valanciunas: I don’t like him as a target as much because it sounds like they are looking for a 1st and we shouldn’t be sending out 1st rounders for backup Cs logging 10-16 min a night
- Patrick Williams: Is he even available? The Bulls signaled that they are rebuilding by moving on from DeRozan (and still looking to shop LaVine, Vucevic, etc.). He’s only 23 years old and can easily be apart of their rebuild. If CHI did want to trade him, they’d probably ask for a 1st at the very least and maybe even more.
- Onyeka Okongwu: Is he even available? Last I heard is that ATL wants to trade Capela and make Okongwu their long term starter. Besides, he would be a backup C on our team logging 10-16 min a night. ATL will at least want a 1st (and likely more) if they are trading him. That’s not a good use of assets for a backup C.
- De’Andre Hunter: I don’t think he’d cost a 1st to get which I like, but he’s not really going to help our size issue since he’s predominantly a SF. He’s also not a good defender. He’s probably around the same level of defender as Cam Johnson. He’s not a revolving door about there but he’s probably not making the defensive impact we need.
- Cam Whitmore: I think he would take a 1st to acquire which I don’t like, and it’s a similar issue to Hunter in that he’s another wing/SF. We need to address our size issues and target a big/long PF.
- Derrick Jones: Is he even available? The Clippers are 16-13 without Leonard even playing this year. Ballmer also wants to compete now since they just moved into their new stadium. I also don’t think he has the size to address our concerns at PF.
- Herb Jones: Is he even available? There was a report that came out that mentioned that everyone on the Pelicans is available for trade except for Jones and Murphy. NOP loves him. I don’t think he’s a realistic target.
- Jakob Poeltl: Again, it’s probably taking at least a 1st rounder to get him and I don’t think it’s wise to trade a 1st for a 10-16 min backup C
- That are realistically available
- That address a big need for this team
- Whose value on the court justifies the price we’d have to give up
I disagree that this is the only way to “level up.” Fit, chemistry, and synergy are all real things. Improving the fit of our roster can do just as much for us as finding a diamond in the rough.
I think we agree that there is a lot of talent on this roster, right? I wouldn’t say the only way to “level up” is to add more talent (and that the Kings can only hope to add talent by trading for players and hope they’re diamonds in the rough). If we make some moves that allow us to rearrange the current talent amount we have into a better fitting roster, I think you’d see a noticeable improvement in the product on the floor.
That’s fair, but he also wasn’t an All-Star the previous season before coming here, and at 35, he’s bound to decline at some point rather soon.
Well we can continue to find common ground in staying away from guys like LaVine, Ingram, etc.
As for Murray, I would absolutely love for him to prove me wrong but the odds aren’t in his favor considering his age, # of NBA years he has under his belt, and the lack of development in key skills you’d need to be a go-to scorer. Murray’s handle is a big problem for him if he has “go-to scorer” aspirations, and how I have seen his handle evolve over the past 3 seasons doesn’t give me hope that he’ll get there.
I like many of those players in a vacuum but are they practical for our roster? Are they even available? Does the cost justify the value?
I think we agree that there is a lot of talent on this roster, right? I wouldn’t say the only way to “level up” is to add more talent (and that the Kings can only hope to add talent by trading for players and hope they’re diamonds in the rough). If we make some moves that allow us to rearrange the current talent amount we have into a better fitting roster, I think you’d see a noticeable improvement in the product on the floor.
That’s fair, but he also wasn’t an All-Star the previous season before coming here, and at 35, he’s bound to decline at some point rather soon.
Well we can continue to find common ground in staying away from guys like LaVine, Ingram, etc.
As for Murray, I would absolutely love for him to prove me wrong but the odds aren’t in his favor considering his age, # of NBA years he has under his belt, and the lack of development in key skills you’d need to be a go-to scorer. Murray’s handle is a big problem for him if he has “go-to scorer” aspirations, and how I have seen his handle evolve over the past 3 seasons doesn’t give me hope that he’ll get there.
I like many of those players in a vacuum but are they practical for our roster? Are they even available? Does the cost justify the value?
- Isaiah Stewart: I like him and agree he’s a decent target since he can play next to Sabonis and as a backup C. but you’re probably having to surrender a 1st round pick to wiggle him free.
- Robert Williams: I like him as well as a backup C since he’d likely only cost a 2nd or two, and he addresses a fair amount of our needs (defense, rim protection, run the fast break with Fox/Monk, and lob threat)
- Jonas Valanciunas: I don’t like him as a target as much because it sounds like they are looking for a 1st and we shouldn’t be sending out 1st rounders for backup Cs logging 10-16 min a night
- Patrick Williams: Is he even available? The Bulls signaled that they are rebuilding by moving on from DeRozan (and still looking to shop LaVine, Vucevic, etc.). He’s only 23 years old and can easily be apart of their rebuild. If CHI did want to trade him, they’d probably ask for a 1st at the very least and maybe even more.
- Onyeka Okongwu: Is he even available? Last I heard is that ATL wants to trade Capela and make Okongwu their long term starter. Besides, he would be a backup C on our team logging 10-16 min a night. ATL will at least want a 1st (and likely more) if they are trading him. That’s not a good use of assets for a backup C.
- De’Andre Hunter: I don’t think he’d cost a 1st to get which I like, but he’s not really going to help our size issue since he’s predominantly a SF. He’s also not a good defender. He’s probably around the same level of defender as Cam Johnson. He’s not a revolving door about there but he’s probably not making the defensive impact we need.
- Cam Whitmore: I think he would take a 1st to acquire which I don’t like, and it’s a similar issue to Hunter in that he’s another wing/SF. We need to address our size issues and target a big/long PF.
- Derrick Jones: Is he even available? The Clippers are 16-13 without Leonard even playing this year. Ballmer also wants to compete now since they just moved into their new stadium. I also don’t think he has the size to address our concerns at PF.
- Herb Jones: Is he even available? There was a report that came out that mentioned that everyone on the Pelicans is available for trade except for Jones and Murphy. NOP loves him. I don’t think he’s a realistic target.
- Jakob Poeltl: Again, it’s probably taking at least a 1st rounder to get him and I don’t think it’s wise to trade a 1st for a 10-16 min backup C
- That are realistically available
- That address a big need for this team
- Whose value on the court justifies the price we’d have to give up
If we expect to compete in this current climate and we expect to do it right now before the timeline runs out on Fox deciding to join a larger market, we're just going to have to bite the bullet and send out every asset we have like our competitors are doing...
Valanciunas and Poeltl are going to be backups but we need a real backup C almost as much as we need a new starting PF. So given the circumstances, I could be talked into trading even a first round pick to fill an important hole in our rotation. I don't even think it would be an overpay for Valanciunas since he's signed for three years on a very affordable deal.
Everyone else I listed I would slot directly into the starting rotation. Yes some of these guys will be expensive -- multiple picks expensive. But there's really only two options here that I see: (1) Blow it up right now and time our re-tool/re-build so that we're ascending in 3 years just when attrition and old age have dismantled the rest of the Western Conference or (2) Dump everything we've got into the trade market to give this Fox/Sabonis core one last chance to prove that the 2022-2023 season wasn't a fluke.
I disagree that this is the only way to “level up.” Fit, chemistry, and synergy are all real things. Improving the fit of our roster can do just as much for us as finding a diamond in the rough.
I think we agree that there is a lot of talent on this roster, right? I wouldn’t say the only way to “level up” is to add more talent (and that the Kings can only hope to add talent by trading for players and hope they’re diamonds in the rough). If we make some moves that allow us to rearrange the current talent amount we have into a better fitting roster, I think you’d see a noticeable improvement in the product on the floor.
That’s fair, but he also wasn’t an All-Star the previous season before coming here, and at 35, he’s bound to decline at some point rather soon.
Well we can continue to find common ground in staying away from guys like LaVine, Ingram, etc.
As for Murray, I would absolutely love for him to prove me wrong but the odds aren’t in his favor considering his age, # of NBA years he has under his belt, and the lack of development in key skills you’d need to be a go-to scorer. Murray’s handle is a big problem for him if he has “go-to scorer” aspirations, and how I have seen his handle evolve over the past 3 seasons doesn’t give me hope that he’ll get there.
I like many of those players in a vacuum but are they practical for our roster? Are they even available? Does the cost justify the value?
I think we agree that there is a lot of talent on this roster, right? I wouldn’t say the only way to “level up” is to add more talent (and that the Kings can only hope to add talent by trading for players and hope they’re diamonds in the rough). If we make some moves that allow us to rearrange the current talent amount we have into a better fitting roster, I think you’d see a noticeable improvement in the product on the floor.
That’s fair, but he also wasn’t an All-Star the previous season before coming here, and at 35, he’s bound to decline at some point rather soon.
Well we can continue to find common ground in staying away from guys like LaVine, Ingram, etc.
As for Murray, I would absolutely love for him to prove me wrong but the odds aren’t in his favor considering his age, # of NBA years he has under his belt, and the lack of development in key skills you’d need to be a go-to scorer. Murray’s handle is a big problem for him if he has “go-to scorer” aspirations, and how I have seen his handle evolve over the past 3 seasons doesn’t give me hope that he’ll get there.
I like many of those players in a vacuum but are they practical for our roster? Are they even available? Does the cost justify the value?
- Isaiah Stewart: I like him and agree he’s a decent target since he can play next to Sabonis and as a backup C. but you’re probably having to surrender a 1st round pick to wiggle him free.
- Robert Williams: I like him as well as a backup C since he’d likely only cost a 2nd or two, and he addresses a fair amount of our needs (defense, rim protection, run the fast break with Fox/Monk, and lob threat)
- Jonas Valanciunas: I don’t like him as a target as much because it sounds like they are looking for a 1st and we shouldn’t be sending out 1st rounders for backup Cs logging 10-16 min a night
- Patrick Williams: Is he even available? The Bulls signaled that they are rebuilding by moving on from DeRozan (and still looking to shop LaVine, Vucevic, etc.). He’s only 23 years old and can easily be apart of their rebuild. If CHI did want to trade him, they’d probably ask for a 1st at the very least and maybe even more.
- Onyeka Okongwu: Is he even available? Last I heard is that ATL wants to trade Capela and make Okongwu their long term starter. Besides, he would be a backup C on our team logging 10-16 min a night. ATL will at least want a 1st (and likely more) if they are trading him. That’s not a good use of assets for a backup C.
- De’Andre Hunter: I don’t think he’d cost a 1st to get which I like, but he’s not really going to help our size issue since he’s predominantly a SF. He’s also not a good defender. He’s probably around the same level of defender as Cam Johnson. He’s not a revolving door about there but he’s probably not making the defensive impact we need.
- Cam Whitmore: I think he would take a 1st to acquire which I don’t like, and it’s a similar issue to Hunter in that he’s another wing/SF. We need to address our size issues and target a big/long PF.
- Derrick Jones: Is he even available? The Clippers are 16-13 without Leonard even playing this year. Ballmer also wants to compete now since they just moved into their new stadium. I also don’t think he has the size to address our concerns at PF.
- Herb Jones: Is he even available? There was a report that came out that mentioned that everyone on the Pelicans is available for trade except for Jones and Murphy. NOP loves him. I don’t think he’s a realistic target.
- Jakob Poeltl: Again, it’s probably taking at least a 1st rounder to get him and I don’t think it’s wise to trade a 1st for a 10-16 min backup C
- That are realistically available
- That address a big need for this team
- Whose value on the court justifies the price we’d have to give up
No, not every team and not every spare part. That’s a bit of a generalization after I spent the time going through each of your individual targets. If you disagree with my comments about one of your targets, speak up. Let’s get specific.
I disagree. We definitely need a big/long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor much more than a solid backup C. We have an All-NBA C who should be logging 34-36 min a night. What are we thinking giving up a 1st round pick for a 10-16 min backup C? Again, it’s not a wise use of our assets. We have much more crucial needs to address with such assets.
I definitely disagree that everyone you listed in your target list would slot directly into the starting lineup (outside Valanciunas and Poeltl). Do you mind going target by target and let me know what starting lineup you’d go with? I’m interested to see what lineup decisions you’re making with each of those additions.
I disagree. We definitely need a big/long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor much more than a solid backup C. We have an All-NBA C who should be logging 34-36 min a night. What are we thinking giving up a 1st round pick for a 10-16 min backup C? Again, it’s not a wise use of our assets. We have much more crucial needs to address with such assets.
I definitely disagree that everyone you listed in your target list would slot directly into the starting lineup (outside Valanciunas and Poeltl). Do you mind going target by target and let me know what starting lineup you’d go with? I’m interested to see what lineup decisions you’re making with each of those additions.
I’m not interested in him regardless.
However, a hot shooting start does not make a player. For example, nobody thinks DFS is a 45% 3PT shooter just because that’s what he is shooting so far this year.
Hunter also has considerable injury concerns and has a lackluster A:T ratio. His advanced impact stats aren’t impressive, and again, he’s not a differential maker defensively.
Couple all of that with his current contract, and I would not be willing to surrender a 1st round pick for him.
However, a hot shooting start does not make a player. For example, nobody thinks DFS is a 45% 3PT shooter just because that’s what he is shooting so far this year.
Hunter also has considerable injury concerns and has a lackluster A:T ratio. His advanced impact stats aren’t impressive, and again, he’s not a differential maker defensively.
Couple all of that with his current contract, and I would not be willing to surrender a 1st round pick for him.
Every guy? You realize you’re posting in a trade proposal thread I made, right?
If you want to help improve this team, we should try addressing our biggest weaknesses. Should we not? Hunter doesn’t not address our biggest issues. He’s a SF who is an average defender at best. We need to prioritize our assets (and our cap/payroll) towards finding a player (or players) that helps alleviate those issues.
If you want to help improve this team, we should try addressing our biggest weaknesses. Should we not? Hunter doesn’t not address our biggest issues. He’s a SF who is an average defender at best. We need to prioritize our assets (and our cap/payroll) towards finding a player (or players) that helps alleviate those issues.
No, not every team and not every spare part. That’s a bit of a generalization after I spent the time going through each of your individual targets. If you disagree with my comments about one of your targets, speak up. Let’s get specific.
I disagree. We definitely need a big/long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor much more than a solid backup C. We have an All-NBA C who should be logging 34-36 min a night. What are we thinking giving up a 1st round pick for a 10-16 min backup C? Again, it’s not a wise use of our assets. We have much more crucial needs to address with such assets.
I definitely disagree that everyone you listed in your target list would slot directly into the starting lineup (outside Valanciunas and Poeltl). Do you mind going target by target and let me know what starting lineup you’d go with? I’m interested to see what lineup decisions you’re making with each of those additions.
I disagree. We definitely need a big/long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor much more than a solid backup C. We have an All-NBA C who should be logging 34-36 min a night. What are we thinking giving up a 1st round pick for a 10-16 min backup C? Again, it’s not a wise use of our assets. We have much more crucial needs to address with such assets.
I definitely disagree that everyone you listed in your target list would slot directly into the starting lineup (outside Valanciunas and Poeltl). Do you mind going target by target and let me know what starting lineup you’d go with? I’m interested to see what lineup decisions you’re making with each of those additions.