iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
What does it project to look like the following year 25/26 if you assume those two re-sign or are signed at their current numbers?
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“THE” Trade Deadline Move to Make…
- Thread starter twslam07
- Start date
What does it project to look like the following year 25/26 if you assume those two re-sign or are signed at their current numbers?
twslam07
All-Star
You’re asking about the 2026-27 season, right? If so we’ll have $100.266 mil allocated to…
Domantas Sabonis
DeMar DeRozan
Malik Monk
Devin Carter
Colby Jones
If we resign Fox to the 30% max, we’ll have $151.300 mill allocated to…
De’Aaron Fox
Domantas Sabonis
DeMar DeRozan
Malik Monk
Devin Carter
Colby Jones
If we resigned DFS & Nance to a collective $26.583 mil (which, again, I think is overestimating how much they’ll actually command on the open market), we’ll have $177.883 mil allocated to…
De’Aaron Fox
Domantas Sabonis
DeMar DeRozan
Malik Monk
Dorian Finney-Smith
Larry Nance Jr
Devin Carter
Colby Jones
The 1st apron will be at $215.541 mil and the 2nd apron will be at $228.608 mil. This means we’re still $37.658 mil under the 1st apron and $50.725 mil under the 2nd apron with 8 players under contract. In this scenario, our goal would likely be to remain under the 2nd apron. If we assume that Murray gets a contract similar to what Trey Murphy received ($25 mil in year 1 of his new deal), we’ll have $202.883 mil allocated to…
De’Aaron Fox
Domantas Sabonis
Keegan Murray
DeMar DeRozan
Malik Monk
Dorian Finney-Smith
Larry Nance Jr
Devin Carter
Colby Jones
We’d still need to resign Ellis and 4-5 other minimum players. Depending on the years experience of the veteran players we sign (and if we ultimately sign 4 or 5 minimum players), that would be another $5.600 mil to $12.625 mil against the cap which leaves us with $208.483 mil to $215.508 allocated to…
De’Aaron Fox
Domantas Sabonis
Keegan Murray
DeMar DeRozan
Malik Monk
Dorian Finney-Smith
Larry Nance Jr
Devin Carter
Colby Jones
Vet Min Player #1
Vet Min Player #2
Vet Min Player #3
Vet Min Player #4
Vet Min Player #5
This means we’d still have $13.100 mil to $20.125 mil to use when resigning Ellis without dipping into the 2nd apron.
This is all seems more than doable, and again, the numbers/math above is overestimating the next contract for DFS and Nance (IMO).
In any case, going out and getting expensive 32 year old role players is short-term thinking in my opinion and I don't like it. With Fox, Monk, Ellis, Carter, Murray, DeRozan, Sabonis, and I. Jones we already have a solid rotation which is affordable and has room to grow. Keon Ellis, Colby Jones, and Isaac Jones are our DFS and Larry Nance Jr. role-players of the future and they're younger and a lot less expensive. I'd prefer that Monte continue looking for hidden value in players in their mid 20s that are potentially good fits and should thrive if given the opportunity.
I hear you, would however at least like to get Val for toughness and he would fill a Domas backup role well. Thought Len would provide that but guess Brown either doesn't see it or he's just not that caliber of player.
twslam07
All-Star
I wouldn’t consider them expensive but to each their own. I walked through how the money works out without getting into apron issues. If you think what I laid out is wrong, feel free to point to where I’m off.
As for Ellis, he has a clear role in my scenario and is not being squeezed out.
As for Colby Jones, he is squeezed out regardless if we make this trade or not. We have Fox, Monk, Ellis, Huerter, and (soon to be) Carter ahead of him. So I don’t see how this is related to the proposal.
As for Isaac Jones, he is the one that will be most impacted minutes wise but why is that a bad thing? We’re trying to make the playoffs. Relying on an undrafted rookie is not ideal, and as I pointed out before, he will still have opportunities to play when injuries arise. And who knows? Maybe 2-3 years down the road, we’ll have a more well rounded player who is able to take the mantle from DFS/Nance.
I know you mentioned going out and getting 31 year old (not 32 year old) players is short term thinking and you don’t like it, so were you also against us going out and getting a 35 year old player in DeRozan? If anything, I think that move for DeRozan showed that the FO is willing to go out and get some of these older players to prioritize competing and winning right now.
And similar to DeRozan, my trade proposal doesn’t actually send out any additional 1sts (we technically sent out a swap for DeRozan so we’ll still have at least a 1st that year) which still gives us the ability to make a (big) move in the future. So again, this trade…
- Solves our bigggest glaring weakness (a long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor)
- Upgrades our backup C who would have a great 2 man game with Monk since he’s such a great lob threat
- Helps clear out our log jam at guard and open up minutes for our lottery pick
- Projects to keep us under the 2nd apron in the coming years
- Maintains our flexibility and assets to make a big move down the road if we so choose
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Our bench is also a weakness so getting Kuzma and Val who are starters and plugging them in the bench takes that weakness into a strength. Kuzma, Val, Ellis and Carter is a very good bench as well as having great size.
I’m banking on Kuzma being an average defender with a reduced offensive role and a chance to play in the playoffs
twslam07
All-Star
Again, the fit is not there for it to be worth the cost (two 1st round picks). And it’s easily arguable that DFS is a more impactful/winning player than Kuzma. The trade I proposed addresses our needs much more than Kuzma/Val would while also saving our 1sts/assets to be used down the road if another (big) move is needed.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Price of the brick going up (Nance)
twslam07
All-Star
Damn…
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
On an NBA podcast today they said Atlanta is planning on trading Capela and starting Okongwu. If that happens, they probably just keep Nance. Given how he is performing that probably is the right move
twslam07
All-Star
Yeah that’s not a bad idea for ATL. They could probably get more value for Capela vs. me trying to steal Nance for pennies behind the scenes.
Jdbraver137
Bench
I’m not sure he is the wing we need to run people off the 3pt line
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
We just need gritty players. If Mike Brown is going to be the coach Monte needs to give him a couple more guys that play his style. Devin is one and we will see him soon but we need to find a bigger place as well. Nance is as gritty as they come
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ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
If there was a reasonable way to move DeRozan in multi team deal and get John Collins, would you do it?
I think it could really balance this lineup. Murray moves back to the 3 and Collins is a legit NBA 4 who is currently a really good shooter and a presence in the key
I think it could really balance this lineup. Murray moves back to the 3 and Collins is a legit NBA 4 who is currently a really good shooter and a presence in the key
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Yes!! I wouldn’t start Collins he’d be better making a great bench backcourt with Lyles than trade Huerter and a first for a foward that can start
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
He would start in that scenario. No doubt
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Would rather trade for a foward then start Collins
Also DD, Huerter, Keon, a first and two seconds for Cam and DFS can work
Cam can pick up DD scoring in a way that fits the offense and we’d have shooters and defense in the lineup. Bench of DFS, Lyle’s, annd Carter in the future is good
Another is DD, Huerter, a first and two seconds for Grant and Timelord
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ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
The starting lineup needs more size. With a Collins move in there, they effectively get bigger at the 3 and the 4....and suddenly they can consistently compete with the bigger wing/forward teams.
Collins can also play small 5, when they want to
Joshyjosh31
Starter
We’d have enough size with DFS/Lyles I just think our offense gets better switching DD for Cam. Also our shooting and defense get better as well I like Collins but off then bench
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Monte is in a really tough spot here. If Nance is off the table and DFS costs more than Kevin and our lone second we are probably out on them. I would maybe consider giving a first for DFS if he agrees to opt in to the last year of his deal and the Nets send us 2 good seconds back. Monte doesn’t care about second rounders so I doubt that happens.
if that’s the case we might have to commit to Lyles as our poor man’s Nance Jr at the 5 and then maybe you have to revisit something with the Blazers around Thybulle. Would they take Kevin straight up for him? They might given that they will likely trade Simons at some point. Obviously Matisse doesn’t have the size but he is a dawg on defense and we absolutely need to get that type in. I dunno, options are pretty limited right now
Joshyjosh31
Starter
A first for DFS is malpractice at that point just do two firsts and a second to add Cam Johnson
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I don’t like Cam Johnson enough to use 2 firsts. He is one inch taller than Kev and is considered average on defense. He is a more consistent shooter but I want defense first players and he isn’t it. We would also need to include Lyles to match salary leaving our depth thin again.
If you meant both, cam and Finney make 38 mil or so in salary. Unless we give up DDR we can’t come up with enough for both and Deebo doesn’t make sense for the Nets
Joshyjosh31
Starter
We’re at a point of overpaying or blowing it up next year you’re selling Cam short he’s a career 39.7% shooter on six attempts that’s elite level shooting and he’s an above average defender that can defend 2-4. The offense opens up when you add in a splash brother level shooter in it the defense gets better when Derozan isn’t out there and replaced with someone like Cam. We’d also have two 6’9 defenders that can shoot off the bench with Lyle’s/DDS then add in Kepn and Carter we have a good defensive team with shooting.
Yes to make it work it’s trading Derozan
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Finney Smith is 6'7 220. He's not a real 4, even though he's played there. He'd be another guy who is a natural 3, being plugged into a bigger position.
That's why I'd prefer John Collins. A real 6'9 power forward, who will never be confused for a 3....and a legit reason to move Murray back to the 3, where I believe he's best in his natural body type and won't have to worry about bulking up any more
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
the problem is DFS can actually guard 4s and Collin’s is considered an average defender. I don’t mind Collins but if we trade him we are getting shooting, rebounding and a lob threat not defense.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Murray can guard 4's as well, but I don't view it as his best spot.
From what I've seen of him, I'd disagree that Collin's isn't an effective defender.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The problem with Collins is 99% of his value is production based. He's never been an impact player and that's likely why when he was dealt it was pretty much for nothing. I was down for him to be a target awhile back, especially when we saw the package the Hawks got but the Kings issues aren't productivity based. It's the inconsistency at critical junctures of the game. If you could get him for cheap then fine, but adding any value would not be wise.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I keep wondering if much of the inconsistency is rooted in a fit issue, that may have some guys in their head and out of rhythm. It seems that Collins would fit real well.....and he's been shooting the cover off the ball, which we need
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And to me if there is a fit issue it's largely with the big 3. Not enough defense, not enough shooting, only 1 ball with 2 of the best clutch guys? Could be a combo of all things. I don't care who you put next to Domas, he's got strengths and weaknesses as a center and a lot of the defensive sets Brown has in place have accentuated those negatives even if the averages look OK. The Kings have changed some things up recently on that end and over time hopefully we see what the team actually is as they do kind of settle in at their baseline on both ends.
Obviously the Kings don't have a lot of athletes, let alone ones with size or even in combination with defense so any athletes would help, but that raises the question of what Brown does rotationally. Moving Monk into the starting lineup in the end didn't really change anything up other than the other shooters were shooting so poorly it helped immediately along with him never overthinking the game (although sometimes underthinking at the worst times but that's why Monk is who he is lol). The closing lineup has been the same since day 1 with DeRozan in there instead of Barnes. The only way you can realistically change things is if you went with a defender at SG over Monk to close out games because even if the Kings went big, moving DDR to SG which I think is a bad idea defensively, with Collins you're still essentially going all offense to close out games anyway. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.
There hasn't been enough time but this also is starting to look pretty typical of what happens to Fox when you place another lead ball handler next to him. Since Monk has been starting and playing more point guard Fox's productivity and impact have crashed. Fox has gone from scoring nearly 30 a game to 22. Once they adjust that might change but the thing to watch is how the fit is long term. Adding someone like DDR over Barnes might have changed the dynamic of that closing lineup.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
In the scenario I'm talking about, it would be a multi team trade with DeRozan going out and Collins coming in......and in my opinion a closing lineup with Collins is better defensively, regardless of whether he's considered a really good defensive guy or not....and maybe it's also better offensively, if the fit is better and guys are more clear and comfortable in their roles
