Who has played their last game as a King?
- Thread starter upinsmoke
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Standard two year and a team option contract that has been available for 2nd rounders ever since the Gilbert Arenas situation in Golden State. Be signed through next year, and then the option will of course be picked up for year three. Not sure if they are unrestricted or restricted after that third year though.
I think that is possible and I would match it. We have two competent bigs and if we lose him, we have one. There is no guarantee we could replace him either. I think he has turned out to be a very competent big and we haven't noticed it so much because Cuz is next to him. Anyway, how much talent needs to bleed away before we notice we need to pay for it or never have it? Big guys are worth money simply because they are big and he is more than just a tall guy.
If I had to pick between the ones listed, Greene. JT comes in 2nd. I think its too early to give up on Jimmer. Tyreke is 50-50 at this moment, but I think we hang on to him and move him at the trade deadline for the right pieces. Hayes I think will stay, but like Tyreke, we will try to move him at the trade deadline for the right pieces.
Why do people think moving people at the trade dealine is more likely to get you the right pieces? Quite to the contrary, at the deadline there are far fewqer teams interested in trading, and nobody wants to break up their momentum/chemsitry, including btw us. If you know you are going to move a guy the best bet is now.
That is all assuming that the owners are willing to spend. For the past 6 years they have shown NO interest in spending money and building a play off team.
Essentially, I agree with you that its time to stop the talent bleed but unfortunately, its out of our control. Last off-season all this team needed to do was keep it's 2 main free agents and sign a competent SF in a year where the FA market had a number of good SFs that would help out this team immensely. All we did was **** that up and blow a ****load of money on a mediocre players or talented players that just could not possibly fit in with this team. I suspect we will see similar thing this off-season.
We are in a really difficult spot at this point. We have a number of contracts that no other teams would touch with a 10 foot pole (funnily enough, majority of those guys we got in the off-season) and I am talking about Salmons, Hayes, Outlaw and Cisco (though while overpaid, I don't mind him as veteran and a glue guy on the roster)....that's $22.5 million in salaries....in other words half our salaries this year. That IS scary especially when you consider that we have owners who are practically broke and one of our starting 5 guys coming out of contract and likely to get reasonable offers in a FA year where there is a lack of quality PFs.
If we had owners who wanted to spend, all of this is doable but once you tighten the purse strings, things get a whole lot tougher.
Personally, I would bring JT back almost at any cost as I have been saying for years that he is just about as good a 3rd big/spot starter as you could hope for. He is very comparable to other 3rd big types on contending teams...and in some cases better than them. I would also love to bring Williams back on a reasonable 3 year deal as I LOVE how he fits in with the team and especially Tyreke and Cousins. A great role playing 2/3 of the stat sheeting stuffing variety and if he keeps improving that jumpshot he could prove to be as much of a bargain for us as Bobby Jackson was. Many games this year, the Williams-Evans pairing showed how good it can be defensively and offensively.
Those 2 would be my main free agents that I would like to bring back. Outside of that, I would love to do a sign and trade for Batum and I would absolutely sacrifice Thornton to get that done. I would also love to see us bring in a veteran shotblocking/rebounding PF/C to play next to Cousins and bring JT off the bench. I would ring Houston and ask if they are interested in Hayes for Dalembert swap and if not, I would be placing a phone call to Camby. As an old, experienced vet, Camby would be a great influence in the locker room and IMHO could only be a good thing for developing Whiteside and to lesser extent Cousins.
Next up would be a defensively oriented PG who can be effective as a primary ball handler and playing off the ball as a SG type if needed. We had that in Beno (minus the defensively oriented part) and I would like to get that back. That is why I would like to see someone like Kirk Hinrich come in and provide some leadership and play off experience.
That would be it for me and in all likelihood, we would have a better team and still at 85% (or there abouts) of the salary cap room which is the bare minimum for next season. I would LOVE to get rid off the bad contracts but I suspect that we are stuck with them.
Oh and I would LOVE to flick Smart and bring in McMillan but that is a pipe dream (as is all of the above) because a) we have broke owners and are rightfully a laughing stock as a franchise and b) no self respecting coach or a player would come to play for this team under this ownership with this much uncertainty around the place....not to mention the coach we have now.
We are in a really **** position simply because out owners are not able to spend money to make us better. If we had Maloofs of the 1999 variety, we would get out of this mess quicker than you could blink but this version of Maloofs (broke and in denial) and we are up a **** creek without a canoe.
I just hope we can keep our core intact before these dickheads sell the team to someone capable of being an NBA owner.
Essentially, I agree with you that its time to stop the talent bleed but unfortunately, its out of our control. Last off-season all this team needed to do was keep it's 2 main free agents and sign a competent SF in a year where the FA market had a number of good SFs that would help out this team immensely. All we did was **** that up and blow a ****load of money on a mediocre players or talented players that just could not possibly fit in with this team. I suspect we will see similar thing this off-season.
We are in a really difficult spot at this point. We have a number of contracts that no other teams would touch with a 10 foot pole (funnily enough, majority of those guys we got in the off-season) and I am talking about Salmons, Hayes, Outlaw and Cisco (though while overpaid, I don't mind him as veteran and a glue guy on the roster)....that's $22.5 million in salaries....in other words half our salaries this year. That IS scary especially when you consider that we have owners who are practically broke and one of our starting 5 guys coming out of contract and likely to get reasonable offers in a FA year where there is a lack of quality PFs.
If we had owners who wanted to spend, all of this is doable but once you tighten the purse strings, things get a whole lot tougher.
Personally, I would bring JT back almost at any cost as I have been saying for years that he is just about as good a 3rd big/spot starter as you could hope for. He is very comparable to other 3rd big types on contending teams...and in some cases better than them. I would also love to bring Williams back on a reasonable 3 year deal as I LOVE how he fits in with the team and especially Tyreke and Cousins. A great role playing 2/3 of the stat sheeting stuffing variety and if he keeps improving that jumpshot he could prove to be as much of a bargain for us as Bobby Jackson was. Many games this year, the Williams-Evans pairing showed how good it can be defensively and offensively.
Those 2 would be my main free agents that I would like to bring back. Outside of that, I would love to do a sign and trade for Batum and I would absolutely sacrifice Thornton to get that done. I would also love to see us bring in a veteran shotblocking/rebounding PF/C to play next to Cousins and bring JT off the bench. I would ring Houston and ask if they are interested in Hayes for Dalembert swap and if not, I would be placing a phone call to Camby. As an old, experienced vet, Camby would be a great influence in the locker room and IMHO could only be a good thing for developing Whiteside and to lesser extent Cousins.
Next up would be a defensively oriented PG who can be effective as a primary ball handler and playing off the ball as a SG type if needed. We had that in Beno (minus the defensively oriented part) and I would like to get that back. That is why I would like to see someone like Kirk Hinrich come in and provide some leadership and play off experience.
That would be it for me and in all likelihood, we would have a better team and still at 85% (or there abouts) of the salary cap room which is the bare minimum for next season. I would LOVE to get rid off the bad contracts but I suspect that we are stuck with them.
Oh and I would LOVE to flick Smart and bring in McMillan but that is a pipe dream (as is all of the above) because a) we have broke owners and are rightfully a laughing stock as a franchise and b) no self respecting coach or a player would come to play for this team under this ownership with this much uncertainty around the place....not to mention the coach we have now.
We are in a really **** position simply because out owners are not able to spend money to make us better. If we had Maloofs of the 1999 variety, we would get out of this mess quicker than you could blink but this version of Maloofs (broke and in denial) and we are up a **** creek without a canoe.
I just hope we can keep our core intact before these dickheads sell the team to someone capable of being an NBA owner.
The only one I'm quite sure is gone is Greene. He is a good guy, but he has not proven anything in his years with the Kings. We have too many useless Sfs, we need to clear space.
I hope we don't make the mistake of trading Tyreke. Just let him play SG, having the ball in his hands. Let's see if this summer he finally improves his jump shot. I don't want to trade him, I'm pretty sure we would get the short end of that trade.
We better keep JT too. I believe he is worth something around the MLE, even a little more. If someone is dumb enough to give him 10+ millions (but I don't think it'll happen), ok, bye bye JT and good luck. Depending on who we draft, JT can be our starter next year or a very good 3rd big off the bench.
I hope we don't make the mistake of trading Tyreke. Just let him play SG, having the ball in his hands. Let's see if this summer he finally improves his jump shot. I don't want to trade him, I'm pretty sure we would get the short end of that trade.
We better keep JT too. I believe he is worth something around the MLE, even a little more. If someone is dumb enough to give him 10+ millions (but I don't think it'll happen), ok, bye bye JT and good luck. Depending on who we draft, JT can be our starter next year or a very good 3rd big off the bench.
hah. i appreciate the sentiment. i try to post when i have time. unfortunately, i'm coming up on the final three weeks of my last semester of course work as a graduate student. i also teach part time, so it all amounts to a very weighty load that dominates my life, at the moment. i watched the kings stomp the lakers last night, but it was mostly background noise while i slaved away at one of two 20-page seminar papers that i have to complete before may 18...
i'm sure i'll be actively involved in TDOS talk, though, and next semester will be completely devoted to an independent study and work on my thesis, so my schedule will be more flexible, because i won't have classes to go to or classes to teach. it will be nice to see my life normalize a bit, and hopefully it will be nice to see the kings normalize a bit, as well. i'm not as optimistic as i'd like to be, but we'll see what the offseason holds...
i'm sure i'll be actively involved in TDOS talk, though, and next semester will be completely devoted to an independent study and work on my thesis, so my schedule will be more flexible, because i won't have classes to go to or classes to teach. it will be nice to see my life normalize a bit, and hopefully it will be nice to see the kings normalize a bit, as well. i'm not as optimistic as i'd like to be, but we'll see what the offseason holds...
I agree! I really doubt he'll get that kind of offer. Its easy to say someone will offer that much, but first a team has to have 10 mil above the cap in order to make that offer. Second, of all the freeagents available, is JT the guy your going to blow all your capspace on? I haven't taken a look at each teams capspace for this coming offseason yet, but in general, less than half the teams in the league have any capspace to work with, and those that have a lot of space, are usually shooting for the stars. We'll be around 14 to 15 mil under that cap, unless we amnesty Salmons. I would bet most of JT's offers will be MLE offers. Somewhere between 5 and 6 mil. And I suspect we would match that offer.
Greene, barring his offering to play for free (not legal anyway) is gone. Fredette barring being included in a trade, is back next season. Ditto Honeycutt and Whiteside. All three players are relatively cheap in total, and there's that word potential. Evans is back, unless a no brainer trade is offered. No, I have no idea what that trade would be. Unless we either trade or amnesty Salmons, were stuck with him. Ditto Outlaw. Personally I'm praying at the altar of recycled players that the real Outlaw is the one we saw the last few games.
Its been stated by the Kings that they want JT back. Its been stated by JT that the Kings want him back. What hasn't been stated by JT, is that he wants to be back. If he has, I missed it. I hope he does, but I would certainly understand if he didn't. He has slowly evolved into a very solid PF. But, not a star. So I hope the offers are reasonable, and we can match. I have it on good account from Grant and Jerry, that IT will be back, and better than ever. Naturally Hayes and Thornton will return, unless of course the Mayan calendar rumor is true, then none of this matters.
Turns out that the only two salaries of importance that can be eliminated are Greene's and JT's. And we don't want to eliminate JT's. Well, not entirely true. We have the option on both Whiteside and Honeycutt, so who knows for sure. But I doubt they'll be cut loose, and if one of them is, its Honeycutt. So any big changes will have to come by way of the draft and trades. We only have so many roster spots, and we don't have room for two new draft picks and a couple of freeagents, unless we rid ourselves of some dead weight,
If I'm counting correctly, we have 8 players on guaranteed contracts. Two players with a team option, and one player thats a restricted freeagent that we want to resign. And if done, that would bring us to 11 players on the roster. That still leaves Williams in limbo, and possibly gone. Add two draftpicks and your up to 13 players, and the only freeagent you would have signed is JT. Not exactly a bold change. So something would have to give somewhere. I won't speculate because I have no clue. Should be either a very interesting, or boring summer.
Its been stated by the Kings that they want JT back. Its been stated by JT that the Kings want him back. What hasn't been stated by JT, is that he wants to be back. If he has, I missed it. I hope he does, but I would certainly understand if he didn't. He has slowly evolved into a very solid PF. But, not a star. So I hope the offers are reasonable, and we can match. I have it on good account from Grant and Jerry, that IT will be back, and better than ever. Naturally Hayes and Thornton will return, unless of course the Mayan calendar rumor is true, then none of this matters.
Turns out that the only two salaries of importance that can be eliminated are Greene's and JT's. And we don't want to eliminate JT's. Well, not entirely true. We have the option on both Whiteside and Honeycutt, so who knows for sure. But I doubt they'll be cut loose, and if one of them is, its Honeycutt. So any big changes will have to come by way of the draft and trades. We only have so many roster spots, and we don't have room for two new draft picks and a couple of freeagents, unless we rid ourselves of some dead weight,
If I'm counting correctly, we have 8 players on guaranteed contracts. Two players with a team option, and one player thats a restricted freeagent that we want to resign. And if done, that would bring us to 11 players on the roster. That still leaves Williams in limbo, and possibly gone. Add two draftpicks and your up to 13 players, and the only freeagent you would have signed is JT. Not exactly a bold change. So something would have to give somewhere. I won't speculate because I have no clue. Should be either a very interesting, or boring summer.
I largely agree with this take. The problem is, of course, is do you trust our front office to address these needs? After all, those are the exact same holes that the team had last summer at SF and defensive big man--and the team not only failed to address them adequately, but arguably made things worse by spending the combined $16 mil a year on Salmons, Hayes and Outlaw--all of whom did nothing to fix the problems.
I am predicting a frustrating summer! You can't get better unless you spend and we do not have the capacity to do that. I am expecting a repeat of the last offseason!
Then again, the only source I've heard that the team offered a decent deal to AK47 was Grant, and since he's gone "Baghdad Bob" for the Maloofs on us, I'm not sure that's all that credible. Carry on.
I'll just go on record here and say that if JT is getting a 10 million per year offer, I don't want him. I love the guy, but he's not worth that to us. He's valuable, but he can be replaced at a cheaper number. We have to think about Evans and Cousins contracts soon, and 10mil to the Sacramento Kings is more than 10mil to any other team.
Sam Dalembert has a team option with Houston that I would THINK they opt out of. He's hasn't been great for them, and has recently lost a lot of his minutes to Marcus Camby (another guy we could bring in to replace JT if need be). I actually think this is a strong FA class, which is why I don't think we'll have a whole lot of trouble keeping Thompson around, but if something gets nutty, we have other options. I think there is a slight chance we actually go after Dalembert. We clearly wanted him back last season, and now he'll be cheaper.
In general though, I still think something is going to have to give with one of our guards. I know a lot of people are suggesting moving Thornton to the bench .. but I just don't think he'll go for that. To be fair to him, he doesn't deserve it either. He's really good, and still underrated around here in my mind. He's MUCH better than a lot of starting SG's in the league, so asking him to come off the bench for a 20ish win team doesn't seem realistic to me.
Sam Dalembert has a team option with Houston that I would THINK they opt out of. He's hasn't been great for them, and has recently lost a lot of his minutes to Marcus Camby (another guy we could bring in to replace JT if need be). I actually think this is a strong FA class, which is why I don't think we'll have a whole lot of trouble keeping Thompson around, but if something gets nutty, we have other options. I think there is a slight chance we actually go after Dalembert. We clearly wanted him back last season, and now he'll be cheaper.
In general though, I still think something is going to have to give with one of our guards. I know a lot of people are suggesting moving Thornton to the bench .. but I just don't think he'll go for that. To be fair to him, he doesn't deserve it either. He's really good, and still underrated around here in my mind. He's MUCH better than a lot of starting SG's in the league, so asking him to come off the bench for a 20ish win team doesn't seem realistic to me.
I think you missed somebody on your count.
Guaranteed (9): Tyreke, IT, MT, Jimmer, Garcia, Salmons, Outlaw, Cousins, Hayes
Team Option (2): Honeycutt, Whiteside
Restricted (2): Thompson, Greene
Unrestricted (1): Williams
You're right that this could end up being a pretty boring summer. We've got arguably too many players locked up on a team that didn't do too well last year. We've got broke owners who really can't afford to amnesty a bad contract (which could be either Garcia/Salmons). And you've got a lot of young players that you don't want to give up on. Greene is probably a casualty. Williams is another possible casualty despite how well he played for us simply because of the numbers game. Too many guards! I really have no idea how the front office feels about Honeycutt - he sure didn't get much playing time even toward the end of the year, so he might be allowed to walk, but he comes very, very cheap so maybe not. Whiteside hasn't shown much yet, but with only two bigs under contract it would be hard to let him go.
But we're in a situation where if we bring back both of the cheap youngsters on team options (who play at positions we're thin at) and JT, that's 12 and our first-rounder makes 13. That's before considering T-Will and any possible free agents. So I almost think that we'll need to spend our second rounder on a stashable Euro prospect. Then, GP is going to have to work some magic. And it may take magic this year, given where we are.
Guaranteed (9): Tyreke, IT, MT, Jimmer, Garcia, Salmons, Outlaw, Cousins, Hayes
Team Option (2): Honeycutt, Whiteside
Restricted (2): Thompson, Greene
Unrestricted (1): Williams
You're right that this could end up being a pretty boring summer. We've got arguably too many players locked up on a team that didn't do too well last year. We've got broke owners who really can't afford to amnesty a bad contract (which could be either Garcia/Salmons). And you've got a lot of young players that you don't want to give up on. Greene is probably a casualty. Williams is another possible casualty despite how well he played for us simply because of the numbers game. Too many guards! I really have no idea how the front office feels about Honeycutt - he sure didn't get much playing time even toward the end of the year, so he might be allowed to walk, but he comes very, very cheap so maybe not. Whiteside hasn't shown much yet, but with only two bigs under contract it would be hard to let him go.
But we're in a situation where if we bring back both of the cheap youngsters on team options (who play at positions we're thin at) and JT, that's 12 and our first-rounder makes 13. That's before considering T-Will and any possible free agents. So I almost think that we'll need to spend our second rounder on a stashable Euro prospect. Then, GP is going to have to work some magic. And it may take magic this year, given where we are.
Yep, I think you and I are on the same page. If the Kings want to make serious moves to improve the team, it likely have to come by way of a trade or trades. And if you look at who we have that other teams might desire, and who were willing to part with, only two players of value spring to mind. Thornton and Evans. Now in theory they play the same position, so again in theory, you could afford to part with one of them. Problem is, your parting with one of the top three players on your team, so you damm well better get a top 3 player in return.
Now there are ways around this situation, but would the Maloofs be willing to bite the financial bullet.
Now there are ways around this situation, but would the Maloofs be willing to bite the financial bullet.
The QO may only be 2.5 mil, but the cap hold is 6 mil. JT's cap hold is 9 mil. So until both guys contracts or lack thereof is decided, the two of them would tie up a huge chunk of our cap space. Greene isn't important enough to tie up 6 mil in capspace.
Note: Thompson played for Rider, which is in New Jersey. He's from the that area. So he's an east coast guy. Last time I looked, there's a team there called the Nets that has a lot of money to spend. I think he would have a hard time passing on a big offer from them. Of course we can show our love and match. But if the amount is too big, I think he's gone. I hope not!
Note: Thompson played for Rider, which is in New Jersey. He's from the that area. So he's an east coast guy. Last time I looked, there's a team there called the Nets that has a lot of money to spend. I think he would have a hard time passing on a big offer from them. Of course we can show our love and match. But if the amount is too big, I think he's gone. I hope not!
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