NEWS: Kings trade Casspi + first rounder for JJ Hickson

[bajaden]

Why? We are under the cap and it was not a S&T.

This whole trading a player that you just traded for is a little confusing. I went back and re-read the rules, and it appears that he can be traded, but not a part of a multiplayer deal. It would have to be just a one for one trade, which could make it a little more difficult. Anyway, here is the part of the rule that I'm refering to:



"For two months after receiving the player in trade or claiming him off waivers, if the player's salary is aggregated with the salaries of other players. However, the team is free to trade the player either by himself (not packaged with other players), or without combining his salary with other salaries to acquire a more expensive player, immediately. This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap. (Also see question number 75.)"

 

[Kings Faithful]

This trade is only good if we resign Dalembert and keep Jason Thompson.

Dalembert / Jason Thompson
Cousins / Hickson

Not necessarily... as good as big man depth is, we only have so many minutes to hand out at that spot. That's 4 guys who could all make an argument for a starting position, so we run the risk of disgruntling someone. Cousins is basically a lock to start now, Hicksons contract runs out after this season, so unless we want to get nothing from this trade he is going to get a good amount of minutes. Dalembert is not going to sign with us if it means riding the bench. Thompson is probably ok with the bench role, but is going to want 6th man type minutes.

 

[D13]

Here's a media conference call with Omri and the Cleveland press from the past hour...

http://www.cleveland.com/podcast_files/casspi063011.mp3

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The 2012 Draft is basically the 2011 + 2012 stock combined.

I am having a hard time understanding exactly what you meant but this statement alone is intrinsically false.

Either way I suspect we will be a lotto team again next year, maybe make a push for an 8 seed but in all likelihood we'll probably keep our pick for a year or two.

 

[bajaden]

I don't think this is right. Larry Coon's FAQ lists the following restrictions for trading players. A player can't be traded:



So according to this, we could immediately trade Salmons as long as he's not combined with other players to get a bigger salary, and we can do anything we want with him so long as we don't go over the salary cap, and two months after we receive him, he's fair game.

The December stuff is for free agent signings. I think Amick got mixed up.

It was from Amick, and I also posted the Dec 15th date. I just posted the same quote from Coon's FAQ.

 

[Superman]

The draft is such a crap-shoot when you get out of the lottery. Very hit and miss on whether you can get a guy that can even play in the league. Heck, even in the lottery can be a crap shoot. To me, Casspi had very marginal value. Throw in a mid-level 1st rounder (marginal value), for a very young guy with proven talent. That's a winner.

Ehhh...

You're not expecting to get a star outside the lottery, and like you said, even the top picks sometimes disappoint, if not bomb out entirely. But you can add very serviceable players -- good players, even -- from 15-30. Teams do it every year. Hickson was #19 himself. And I'm not complaining about the trade; I think we won it. But I don't think you can dismiss the draft pick, if indeed we do give it up this season, especially if there are good players available when that pick comes around. If that picks winds up being #19 and there's a great prospect there, we have to add that to the cost of this deal. Might still wind up being winners, and the odds are definitely in favor of that. But the book isn't closed. That pick could wind up representing the next Serge Ibaka or something.

 

[dmj]

I don't mind the trade on paper. Hickson is actually a much better player than his number's this season indicate. He isn't a 20 ppg type of guy though, and the increased number of field goals he took following Lebron's departure really torpedoed his efficiency (58 TS% last year vs. 50% this year). His rebounding did improve significantly this year, though, and if he plays within himself and does shoulder too much of the offensive burden (which he shouldn't have to given the kings offensive talen) then he could be a very solid role player here.

My one concern, which has been brought by other as well, is that he is a poor defender, and thus not a particularly good fit in a lineup with Demarcus. There is just no way we can get out of the lottery with a starting front court that poor defensively.

 

[swisshh]

I am having a hard time understanding exactly what you meant but this statement alone is intrinsically false.

Either way I suspect we will be a lotto team again next year, maybe make a push for an 8 seed but in all likelihood we'll probably keep our pick for a year or two.

I mean a lot of expected 2011 prospects will likely be in the 2012 draft instead, along with expected 2012 early declaree prospects, so the draft will be deeper.

 

[Kingsguy881]

That is giving up too much for Hickson. =/ The 2012 Draft is basically the 2011 + 2012 stock combined. Casspi will likely blossom once he finds a real offensive system to play in.


Is the team rebuilding into a no defense run n gunner with no PG? After these moves, I'm lockout ready.

Man, they could probly trade Pooh Jeter for LeBron and you would complain about it.

 

[bajaden]

I don't care about those statistics. I know enough about basketball to see exactly what went on with him. When he was struggling with his shot, he took worse shots. When the team benched him and started winning, he complained and wanted to be traded. When your team is winning, you don't make statements like that. Look, he's a good kid and all and he has some heart, but ultimately he put himself WAY ahead of his team and I'm glad he's not our problem anymore.

So you deny that Casspi was the better player on offense between him and Greene? Yes/No? If you believe that, then either your basketball knowledge or your eye's need to be questioned. You don't like Casspi! I get that! I believe I said that both players left a lot to be desired, so I wasn't defending Casspi's flaws. What I was defending was what he said when asked about the trade, and you never addressed that.

Just what did you expect him to say???????? Put your dislike aside and apply some logic for a second.

 

[Kingsguy881]

So you deny that Casspi was the better player on offense between him and Greene? Yes/No? If you believe that, then either your basketball knowledge or your eye's need to be questioned. You don't like Casspi! I get that! I believe I said that both players left a lot to be desired, so I wasn't defending Casspi's flaws. What I was defending was what he said when asked about the trade, and you never addressed that.

Just what did you expect him to say???????? Put your dislike aside and apply some logic for a second.

I called him No Passpi for a reason. The ball tended to stop when he touched it. And he didn't get to touch it a lot when he was in the game. Probably for a reason.

 

[bajaden]

The problem is that there's no reason to believe that Omri wants to stay in Sacramento or hates being traded to the Cavs. He very obviously wanted out, and there's been no indication that he wanted to go to a good team instead all indications say he wants big minutes, a starting opportunity, and more shots. I don't begrudge him; it's not like he wanted to leave a winning situation just so he could be a featured player. But everything about Casspi, from before last season, has said that he doesn't want to be on the bench for the Kings, and wanted to get out. I think his comments as quoted above are his true feelings.

You could be right, but all I'm referring to is what you or I would say in a similar situation. If your going to a new team, your going to say something positive and not negative. At least if your smart your are. What he really thinks is another matter all together. If someone is angry because of some of his past statements, thats understandable. If his positive statement happens to also be the truth, then its not unexpected, but its immaterial to my point.

 

[bajaden]

I'm just wondering how all these players are going to mesh. Sure, on paper, we have more talent but from everything I've read, JJ is a bit of a knucklehead and has an extremely low basketball IQ. Add this to DMC's immaturity, Salmons' weirdness, and Evans' lack of leadership I just don't know how it's going to work. And we're not even talking about how in the hell 4 guys (Reke, DMC, Thornton, Hickson) who are black holes are going to work together.

I say just shoot them all and start over...

 

[TheRaven]

Not worried about the pick right now. I don't see us in the playoffs this season, especially if it ends up being a shortened year due to the lockout. The team has the talent, but it has too much youth and not enough chemistry built for the playoffs IMO. So I am glad Petrie was able to get good protections on the pick.

We will most likely keep our 2012 pick since it will still be in the lotto, and can add another piece or use it as a trade asset on draft day to get better. If Petrie plays it right, by the time we lose the pick in 2013 or 2014 we should have plenty of talent and not be too worried about losing that pick.


Overall I like the trade. The only thing that worries me is that Hickson has a reputation of being a little difficult to coach and sometimes not having the greatest attitude. I also worry he will try to be almost like the PF version of Salmons, in that he will overvalue his contributions and end up being too much of a black hole when he gets the ball. Hopefully he continues to develop and mature.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Initial thoughts are that I like the deal. I'm still worried about Dalembert though, and now that we added another high usage big man ... I dont want this to turn back into a Landry/JT/Dallly/DMC thing all over again. I hate having a minutes crunch with established players. When does that ever work?

I still want Dalembert back though. Alot. But I dont see how this situation will get resolved perfectly.

I do think Hickson, and Demarcus' defense will improve little by little. Its hard to compete on the defensive end when your team is garbage. That's an NBA reality. If this team is better next season, which should happen, the defense will get better too. Just having a healthy Evans along with Thornton for an entire season, and the addition of Salmons (yuck, but whatever ) should improve our perimeter defense a ton... and once the team starts rolling, the defensive effort should be there every night. Hickson and JT certainly have the tools, and Demarcus should at least be stong enough to hold his own against the bigger centers.

 

[Superman]

You could be right, but all I'm referring to is what you or I would say in a similar situation. If your going to a new team, your going to say something positive and not negative. At least if your smart your are. What he really thinks is another matter all together. If someone is angry because of some of his past statements, thats understandable. If his positive statement happens to also be the truth, then its not unexpected, but its immaterial to my point.

I'm just saying that I don't think Casspi is shining a turd (in his mind, anyway). I think he's genuinely excited to be out of Sacramento and in a situation where he might be a starter and get more shots.

 

[cuad]

Not necessarily... as good as big man depth is, we only have so many minutes to hand out at that spot. That's 4 guys who could all make an argument for a starting position, so we run the risk of disgruntling someone. Cousins is basically a lock to start now, Hicksons contract runs out after this season, so unless we want to get nothing from this trade he is going to get a good amount of minutes. Dalembert is not going to sign with us if it means riding the bench. Thompson is probably ok with the bench role, but is going to want 6th man type minutes.

In my opinion, between Dalembert, Cousins, Thompson and Hickson, Dalembert and Cousins are the clear starters, and while I don't think that Jason Thompson has a case for starting over Dalembert or Cousins, I definitely think he's better than Hickson.

That's why I'm saying. This trade will be as good as it looks only if the Kings keep Dalembert and Thompson. Hickson nor Thompson can replace Dalembert. I want to shut those ideas down as soon as I can. Some people must still be buying that "Hickson = the next Amare" bull that Cleveland was spitting out to Phoenix.

 

[Casspi]

pretty sad because clevland sucks ***
but glasd for casspi because his playing with a great PG (irving) and he iwll probabbly be getting a lot of minutes
but i liked the kings , eventough this season i dont see how tyreke jimmer cousins and thorton will all share 1 ball

 

[macadocious]

Thompson is probably ok with the bench role, but is going to want 6th man type minutes.

Well he will have to learn to deal with that, won't he?

 

[cuad]

Hickson will have to deal with that.

Thompson > Hickson.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Man, they could probly trade Pooh Jeter for LeBron and you would complain about it.

LeBron's contract is too big.

 

[SacKings7]

Initial thoughts are that I like the deal. I'm still worried about Dalembert though, and now that we added another high usage big man ... I dont want this to turn back into a Landry/JT/Dallly/DMC thing all over again. I hate having a minutes crunch with established players. When does that ever work?

I still want Dalembert back though. Alot. But I dont see how this situation will get resolved perfectly.

I do think Hickson, and Demarcus' defense will improve little by little. Its hard to compete on the defensive end when your team is garbage. That's an NBA reality. If this team is better next season, which should happen, the defense will get better too. Just having a healthy Evans along with Thornton for an entire season, and the addition of Salmons (yuck, but whatever ) should improve our perimeter defense a ton... and once the team starts rolling, the defensive effort should be there every night. Hickson and JT certainly have the tools, and Demarcus should at least be stong enough to hold his own against the bigger centers.

If anything I'd say this move means we're likely looking to get rid of JT, not Dalembert (I know we may not have any control over the Dalembert situation). At least that's what I'm hoping. A Cousins/JJ/Dalembert rotation is better than a Cousins/JJ/JT rotation. It'd be great to have all 4 but like you said, I'm not sure if I can see that working out

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I wish Casspi the best. He has potential to be a starter. His selfishness showed through at times which turned me off. I'll miss his fire and snarl.

 

[Casspi]

now i gotta ask you guys
how can u build a team with the players you have right now
a lot of players who can create for them selfs
and thats it
i dont say casspi was the diffrence but when the kings go jimmer instead of knight i really got worried about the teams base
never seen a team who built is so flaless

 

[swisshh]

Man, they could probly trade Pooh Jeter for LeBron and you would complain about it.

sigh

go troll someone else

 

[upinsmoke]

now i gotta ask you guys
how can u build a team with the players you have right now
a lot of players who can create for them selfs
and thats it
i dont say casspi was the diffrence but when the kings go jimmer instead of knight i really got worried about the teams base
never seen a team who built is so flaless

huh?

 

[rainmaker]

now i gotta ask you guys
how can u build a team with the players you have right now
a lot of players who can create for them selfs
and thats it
i dont say casspi was the diffrence but when the kings go jimmer instead of knight i really got worried about the teams base
never seen a team who built is so flaless

what?

 

[Heuge]

now i gotta ask you guys
how can u build a team with the players you have right now
a lot of players who can create for them selfs
and thats it
i dont say casspi was the diffrence but when the kings go jimmer instead of knight i really got worried about the teams base
never seen a team who built is so flaless

If you say Knight would have solved ball selfishness issues, you discredit yourself.

 

[Casspi]

well knight would fit better then jimmer , jimmer and thorton are playing the same kind of game (creating for them selfs ) and they sure wont fit with tyreke , as i said earlier this team needs about 3 balls in order to be in order

 

[Warhawk]

well knight would fit better then jimmer , jimmer and thorton are playing the same kind of game (creating for them selfs ) and they sure wont fit with tyreke , as i said earlier this team needs about 3 balls in order to be in order

Except for the fact that Evans averages 5 assists a game and would be better if this team could hit an outside shot. Jimmer averaged over what, 4 a game as the team's only scoring threat?