Last year the best performances were with Beno and Tyreke on the floor together. Beno has been a PG for 4-5 years, Cisco never, really, and Tyreke is called that but demonstrates he is a 2-guard with some PG skills. In Westphal and Petrie's thinking there are a quantity of 2 guards, 2 forwards and a big in the middle to run plays through. At least that's the way it was 98-04. First Vlade, then Brad, now DMC. As many of us have said, can't wait to see how Tyreke and DMC can work together.
Antoine Wright?
- Thread starter annihilator_33
- Start date
you are correct in the BEST performances Beno was on the floor with Tyreke but you have to remember that also in the Worst performances Beno was also on the floor with Tyreke. We won 25 out of a possible 82. With Beno on the court it takes away mismatches lets give you a for instance take the world champ lakers. With Beno and Tyreke on the floor Kobe can guard and limit Tyreke more than Fisher so Kobe guards Tyreke and because Beno is a pg no mismatch for fisher either. Now with Garcia opposite Tyreke then the Lakers have a dilema do they put Kobe on the 6-6 Reke and 6-1 fisher on the 6-7 Garcia??? I doubt it so therefore making a mismatch either way they go.
It happened all year last year although Tyreke was initiaing the plays he was getting the opposing teams SG guarding him with Beno on the court and Tyreke strenght while it still showed was limited against the bigger SG's. Garcia is more than capable being a distributor as he has actually been an emergency pg several times. Garcia is to tall for these 6-0 to 6-3 pg to guard.
I am just thinking like the coach. Westphal wants Garcia in that SG spot unless Garcia has lost his mind or is injured or just sucks it up at camp he will be the starter. This is the kind of team Petrie is building. Mismatches all over the court when we are on offense and diversity on defense. Garcia can defend sg and sf Donte sg,sf, some pf Tyreke pg,sg, some sf. Landry pf some sf This is the ideal setting for our team with Beno getting 30 min off the bench to lauch up his 12-14 shots per game. you don't have a 12-14 shot attempt guy on the floor with Tyreke, Landry, and Cousins especially when he takes away your mismatch.
It happened all year last year although Tyreke was initiaing the plays he was getting the opposing teams SG guarding him with Beno on the court and Tyreke strenght while it still showed was limited against the bigger SG's. Garcia is more than capable being a distributor as he has actually been an emergency pg several times. Garcia is to tall for these 6-0 to 6-3 pg to guard.
I am just thinking like the coach. Westphal wants Garcia in that SG spot unless Garcia has lost his mind or is injured or just sucks it up at camp he will be the starter. This is the kind of team Petrie is building. Mismatches all over the court when we are on offense and diversity on defense. Garcia can defend sg and sf Donte sg,sf, some pf Tyreke pg,sg, some sf. Landry pf some sf This is the ideal setting for our team with Beno getting 30 min off the bench to lauch up his 12-14 shots per game. you don't have a 12-14 shot attempt guy on the floor with Tyreke, Landry, and Cousins especially when he takes away your mismatch.
in response to the rebounding edge and to answer some questions about Donte's rebounding. I am not sure how closely you guys are watching these games sheesh. I thought we were all on the same page and actually paid attention to detail during the games. I recommend if you have any games recorded on DVR or whatnot to watch a game in which Donte played and see just how many rebounds he is in position to get being that he is the guy (when on the court) that is guarding the best perimeter shooter therefore being the guy that breaks down court after the shot. Its basketball 101 said player isn't going to rebound at a high% when standing beyond the arc and racing past halfcourt once the reboudn is secured.
I feel as if this thread should be renamed: What should our starting line-up be?
Since we'll probably have at least 10 of those threads before the start of the new year, I guess I'll toss my opinion out here now. As an aside, I actually don't expect my preferred starting line-up to be the starting unit, but this is what I'd prefer to see.
Starting Unit
Point Guard: Tyreke Evans
I want Tyreke as our PG. He's a mis-match against every other PG in the league, and there isn't a single team out there that I'd be afraid of him to match up against. This doesn't mean that he'll win every match-up, but he should be the favorite every time out.
He still has a lot to learn. He over-dribbles, and he takes to long to get into sets. He doesn't push the ball up the court fast enough unless he personally secures the rebound.
I do think that having Cousins in the low post will really, really, really help him get into half-court play sets far faster than what we saw last year.
If he's improved his jumpshot enough this off-season, and if he can develop chemistry with Cousins/Thompson/Landry he eventually can become deadly with the pick-n-roll.
Finally, he with-out a doubt showed the ability to break down the defense and find the open man last season. In my mind that's the most important thing he needed to show in order to man the PG spot. (Along side being able to defend the position)
Shooting Guard: Francisco Garcia
I just think that a lot of people have forgotten how good of a 'glue' guy Garcia can be. He can be a deadly spot-up shooter.
He is a tenacious defender (Although not as successful as you'd like), and a good weak-side defender.
He's got far, far better handles than Kevin did, and good enough handles to bring the ball up and get the team into sets if necessary.
He's got leadership qualities and appears to have the respect of all the young guys on the team.
He's got good size for the position and should be able to punish any team that puts their PG on him.
He's a decent to good rebounder for his position.
Yes, he makes some horribly bone-headed plays. He'll make you love him one moment and then hate him the next. But, he has gotten better in that area over the years, and hopefully we'll see more of the good Garcia and less of the mistake-prone Garcia next season.
Small Forward: Donte Greene
To me it comes down to defense and team fit. I think that Donte's tools are far, far superior to Casspi's when it comes to the defensive end. Donte showed last year the ability to be an elite defender. If the coaching staff can continue to hone that mentality in him, then it's a no-contest in my opinion that he should be the starter.
He also seems to have a better chemistry with both Tyreke and Cousins while out on the floor. The way he passes to them and cuts to get dishes from both of our premiere players just seems far more natural and organic than Casspi. I just think his mentality and chemistry with Tyreke and Cousins is on another level as opposed to Casspi at this point in time. He isn't going to demand the ball on the offensive-end and seems to have a better feel for letting the offensive come to him as opposed to Casspi.
He certainly has his issues though. First, he's just a terrible rebounder for his size. I understand that his rebounding will not be as good if he's having to guard perimeter players, but his biggest problem is his inability to secure a rebound in traffic. It's as if he thinks he so tall and athletic that he can let the ball come to him, and he constantly gets beat for rebounds or loses rebounds due to deflections because other players are going after it harder than he is.
So he's got to get better at going after those rebounds, especially while in traffic.
Next is his decision-making on the court. You can tell he's been working on his handles. And I personally like him being aggressive. I want him to be a Rashard Lewis, with more aggressive driving to the basket. But at this point in time, he just isn't there yet, and I'm not certain he'll make it. He over-dribbles and takes really tough shots at the rim. He needs to get better at just taking a quick dribble or two and then rising up for jumpshot. He's so tall that he should be able to get that sort of shot up all the time, and that's what he really should be focusing on, rather than trying to get all the way to the rim.
Power Forward: Jason Thompson
There are a lot of players you could plug in as the 4 and the 5. Even though JT played really well off the bench late last year, as well as playing well at Center, I'd prefer him to be our starting PF next year.
I think Jason got himself into trouble for two things last year.
He got in trouble on the offensive end by trying to do too much in the post. Post-scoring just isn't his type of game and with the additions we've picked up on our team I don't want to see him trying in the post any longer.
Instead, I want him spotting up for his 15 ft jumpshot, and crashing the boards for offensive tip-ins and put-backs.
I think if you limit his offensive game to just those types of baskets, he'll become a better player for you out on the floor.
The second area where he got in trouble was on the defensive-end and getting into foul trouble. I think a lot of that had to do with playing with Hawes. I believe that with the new players we brought in, he'll play much better defense, and will be able to stay out of foul trouble.
The reason I prefer him in the starting line-up is due to his great hustle, rebounding, and consistent outside spot-up shot. I think his rebounding will help shore up any rebounding issues that Greene might have. He's also a hustle player, and he isn't going to be demanding the ball to score all the time, and I think that's an important aspect for this starting unit.
If he can stay out of foul trouble, keep his feet moving, play big, and hit that outside spot-up shot consistently, I think he's a really good fit on the starting unit.
Center: Demarcus Cousins
With how I've assembled the rest of the starting unit, Demarcus would have to be the starting Center. Garcia, Greene, and Thompson should be the three role-players on the offensive-end to suppliment the scoring of Tyreke and Cousins.
My personal opinion was that Cousins was going to beat out Sammy for the starting Center spot in training camp. After watching him in Summer League, I still feel that he will be in the starting line-up.
He showed great chemistry with Greene, and since he's a dominant rebounder, he will also be able to shore up any weaknesses that Greene has in that area. In fact, with this starting line-up, we should absolutely obliterate other teams on the boards.
I believe that he can be the other primary facilitator on this starting unit. So with Tyreke and Cousins both facilitating the offense, it will allow Beno to be the main man off the bench.
Cousins biggest weakness at this point is the defense, and especially weak-side defense. I think it's going to take a bit of time for him to become adequate as a help-defender. However, he's got such good footwork and a large body, that I expect his post-man defense to be better than anything we had last year.
Cousins was prone to get himself into trouble in summer league by trying to do too much. But if he's put in the starting line-up with these guys, I don't think he'll have to force things nearly as much, and should be able to stick to making solid plays.
The only problem I really see with this starting line-up is the front-court defensive intimidation factor. Obviously Sammy would really help with providing better over-all defense and better intimidation. It is for that reason that I actually expect to see both Cousins and Sammy playing in the starting line-up together. I don't actually like that combination, but I see it happening. I think that it's almost guaranteed at this point that Cousins will start. The reason being, the Maloofs are really working hard to promote their product, and the best way to do that in their minds is to get as much exposure for their newest 'franchise-potential' center. So I expect Cousins to start for that reason.
As I described above, I prefer JT as the PF next to Cousins, but I actually expect Westphal to start Sammy because he'll want to really have great frontcourt defense, and Sammy with-out a doubt is our best defender. So I'd prefer JT/Cousins, but think we'll get Cousins/Dalembert.
The Bench
If we go with the above starting line-up that would leave the following as our 1st bench unit:
PG: Beno
SG: Wright
SF: Casspi
PF: Landry
C: Dalembert
Obviously we are probably never going to have the entire 1st unit on the bench, but if we did, that is a very good looking and balanced 2nd unit.
You've got Dalembert and Casspi as good rebounders for their positions to shore up potential rebounding issues with Landry.
You've got Beno with the ability to handle the ball, set up teammates, and get the offense into its sets. You've got Landry and Casspi being aggressive and providing the scoring punch, and you've got Wright out there to defend the other team's best wing.
I just like that mix of aggressiveness, play-making, and rebounding as a unit coming off the bench.
You'll notice that I haven't mentioned Whiteside. At this point, I think that he's our 5th big. I really hope that he's able to get 10-12 minutes a game to get his feet wet, but I'm not going to count on him for big minutes or consistent productivity next year unless we're hit by a rash of injuries or we unload Sammy or Landry or both at the trade deadline.
Anyway, unless there are more signings, or we see something different in training camp/pre-season, that's the starting unit and bench unit's I'd prefer to see. I don't think that is what we'll see, but that would be my preference at this time.
Since we'll probably have at least 10 of those threads before the start of the new year, I guess I'll toss my opinion out here now. As an aside, I actually don't expect my preferred starting line-up to be the starting unit, but this is what I'd prefer to see.
Starting Unit
Point Guard: Tyreke Evans
I want Tyreke as our PG. He's a mis-match against every other PG in the league, and there isn't a single team out there that I'd be afraid of him to match up against. This doesn't mean that he'll win every match-up, but he should be the favorite every time out.
He still has a lot to learn. He over-dribbles, and he takes to long to get into sets. He doesn't push the ball up the court fast enough unless he personally secures the rebound.
I do think that having Cousins in the low post will really, really, really help him get into half-court play sets far faster than what we saw last year.
If he's improved his jumpshot enough this off-season, and if he can develop chemistry with Cousins/Thompson/Landry he eventually can become deadly with the pick-n-roll.
Finally, he with-out a doubt showed the ability to break down the defense and find the open man last season. In my mind that's the most important thing he needed to show in order to man the PG spot. (Along side being able to defend the position)
Shooting Guard: Francisco Garcia
I just think that a lot of people have forgotten how good of a 'glue' guy Garcia can be. He can be a deadly spot-up shooter.
He is a tenacious defender (Although not as successful as you'd like), and a good weak-side defender.
He's got far, far better handles than Kevin did, and good enough handles to bring the ball up and get the team into sets if necessary.
He's got leadership qualities and appears to have the respect of all the young guys on the team.
He's got good size for the position and should be able to punish any team that puts their PG on him.
He's a decent to good rebounder for his position.
Yes, he makes some horribly bone-headed plays. He'll make you love him one moment and then hate him the next. But, he has gotten better in that area over the years, and hopefully we'll see more of the good Garcia and less of the mistake-prone Garcia next season.
Small Forward: Donte Greene
To me it comes down to defense and team fit. I think that Donte's tools are far, far superior to Casspi's when it comes to the defensive end. Donte showed last year the ability to be an elite defender. If the coaching staff can continue to hone that mentality in him, then it's a no-contest in my opinion that he should be the starter.
He also seems to have a better chemistry with both Tyreke and Cousins while out on the floor. The way he passes to them and cuts to get dishes from both of our premiere players just seems far more natural and organic than Casspi. I just think his mentality and chemistry with Tyreke and Cousins is on another level as opposed to Casspi at this point in time. He isn't going to demand the ball on the offensive-end and seems to have a better feel for letting the offensive come to him as opposed to Casspi.
He certainly has his issues though. First, he's just a terrible rebounder for his size. I understand that his rebounding will not be as good if he's having to guard perimeter players, but his biggest problem is his inability to secure a rebound in traffic. It's as if he thinks he so tall and athletic that he can let the ball come to him, and he constantly gets beat for rebounds or loses rebounds due to deflections because other players are going after it harder than he is.
So he's got to get better at going after those rebounds, especially while in traffic.
Next is his decision-making on the court. You can tell he's been working on his handles. And I personally like him being aggressive. I want him to be a Rashard Lewis, with more aggressive driving to the basket. But at this point in time, he just isn't there yet, and I'm not certain he'll make it. He over-dribbles and takes really tough shots at the rim. He needs to get better at just taking a quick dribble or two and then rising up for jumpshot. He's so tall that he should be able to get that sort of shot up all the time, and that's what he really should be focusing on, rather than trying to get all the way to the rim.
Power Forward: Jason Thompson
There are a lot of players you could plug in as the 4 and the 5. Even though JT played really well off the bench late last year, as well as playing well at Center, I'd prefer him to be our starting PF next year.
I think Jason got himself into trouble for two things last year.
He got in trouble on the offensive end by trying to do too much in the post. Post-scoring just isn't his type of game and with the additions we've picked up on our team I don't want to see him trying in the post any longer.
Instead, I want him spotting up for his 15 ft jumpshot, and crashing the boards for offensive tip-ins and put-backs.
I think if you limit his offensive game to just those types of baskets, he'll become a better player for you out on the floor.
The second area where he got in trouble was on the defensive-end and getting into foul trouble. I think a lot of that had to do with playing with Hawes. I believe that with the new players we brought in, he'll play much better defense, and will be able to stay out of foul trouble.
The reason I prefer him in the starting line-up is due to his great hustle, rebounding, and consistent outside spot-up shot. I think his rebounding will help shore up any rebounding issues that Greene might have. He's also a hustle player, and he isn't going to be demanding the ball to score all the time, and I think that's an important aspect for this starting unit.
If he can stay out of foul trouble, keep his feet moving, play big, and hit that outside spot-up shot consistently, I think he's a really good fit on the starting unit.
Center: Demarcus Cousins
With how I've assembled the rest of the starting unit, Demarcus would have to be the starting Center. Garcia, Greene, and Thompson should be the three role-players on the offensive-end to suppliment the scoring of Tyreke and Cousins.
My personal opinion was that Cousins was going to beat out Sammy for the starting Center spot in training camp. After watching him in Summer League, I still feel that he will be in the starting line-up.
He showed great chemistry with Greene, and since he's a dominant rebounder, he will also be able to shore up any weaknesses that Greene has in that area. In fact, with this starting line-up, we should absolutely obliterate other teams on the boards.
I believe that he can be the other primary facilitator on this starting unit. So with Tyreke and Cousins both facilitating the offense, it will allow Beno to be the main man off the bench.
Cousins biggest weakness at this point is the defense, and especially weak-side defense. I think it's going to take a bit of time for him to become adequate as a help-defender. However, he's got such good footwork and a large body, that I expect his post-man defense to be better than anything we had last year.
Cousins was prone to get himself into trouble in summer league by trying to do too much. But if he's put in the starting line-up with these guys, I don't think he'll have to force things nearly as much, and should be able to stick to making solid plays.
The only problem I really see with this starting line-up is the front-court defensive intimidation factor. Obviously Sammy would really help with providing better over-all defense and better intimidation. It is for that reason that I actually expect to see both Cousins and Sammy playing in the starting line-up together. I don't actually like that combination, but I see it happening. I think that it's almost guaranteed at this point that Cousins will start. The reason being, the Maloofs are really working hard to promote their product, and the best way to do that in their minds is to get as much exposure for their newest 'franchise-potential' center. So I expect Cousins to start for that reason.
As I described above, I prefer JT as the PF next to Cousins, but I actually expect Westphal to start Sammy because he'll want to really have great frontcourt defense, and Sammy with-out a doubt is our best defender. So I'd prefer JT/Cousins, but think we'll get Cousins/Dalembert.
The Bench
If we go with the above starting line-up that would leave the following as our 1st bench unit:
PG: Beno
SG: Wright
SF: Casspi
PF: Landry
C: Dalembert
Obviously we are probably never going to have the entire 1st unit on the bench, but if we did, that is a very good looking and balanced 2nd unit.
You've got Dalembert and Casspi as good rebounders for their positions to shore up potential rebounding issues with Landry.
You've got Beno with the ability to handle the ball, set up teammates, and get the offense into its sets. You've got Landry and Casspi being aggressive and providing the scoring punch, and you've got Wright out there to defend the other team's best wing.
I just like that mix of aggressiveness, play-making, and rebounding as a unit coming off the bench.
You'll notice that I haven't mentioned Whiteside. At this point, I think that he's our 5th big. I really hope that he's able to get 10-12 minutes a game to get his feet wet, but I'm not going to count on him for big minutes or consistent productivity next year unless we're hit by a rash of injuries or we unload Sammy or Landry or both at the trade deadline.
Anyway, unless there are more signings, or we see something different in training camp/pre-season, that's the starting unit and bench unit's I'd prefer to see. I don't think that is what we'll see, but that would be my preference at this time.
I'm not discounting the fact that Greene is sometimes out on the perimiter guarding someone. The fact is, in summer league so was Casspi, and he still managed to grab almost 4 times the rebounds Greene did. I've watched Greene closely and he has very poor technique even when in position to rebound. On offense Casspi almost always follows his own shot while Greene becomes a spectator. When someone else shoots the ball Casspi heads to the basket. Greene doesn't. I call Greene a rebounder of convience. If the ball bounces his way, he rebounds it. And sometimes not even then.
Look! I like Greene a lot. But rebounding is one of his weakest areas. As much as I like him, I'm not going to make excuses for him in that area. Beno basicly averaged as many rebounds per game as Greene did last year. He's more than likely going to be our starting SF. I suspect that most of the time he'll be guarding the other teams SF, which is what he was doing in summer league. We'll see how he does. He's come a long way from his first year in the league. But he still has a long way to go. Which is a good thing. It means he should get much better.
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If were going to do starting lineups, then I might as well do mine. Although I don't necessarily disagree with Unica03's ideas.
Point Guard: Tyreke Evans
Not a difficult choice considering he was rookie of the year. I look for him to have an improved mid-range shot, which should add to his ability to run the pick and roll. I think its critical for Evans to add to his offensive game in order to move to the next level.
Shooting Guard: Francisco Garcia
I think Garcia is the perfect player to play straight man for Evans. Good spot up shooter. Decent to good defender and rebounds fairly well from the position. He can also handle the ball and bring the ball up the court, thereby taking the pressure off of Evans at times.
Small Forward: Donte Greene
I think Donte will be the player of choice. At least to begin the season. It will be up to him to hold onto the starting job. He's going to get a lot of competition from Casspi, who I think is a lot more talented than people are giving him credit for. Greene needs to cut back on his dribbling, and needs to recognize when to post up smaller players when the opportunity presents itself. He needs to improve him rebounding, but with so many good rebounders around him this year, I'll be surprised if he improves that much. I hope I'm wrong..
Power Forward: Jason Thompson
I struggled with this one. And it really came down to who I wanted to start at the center position, and who would compliment him the most. So I decided on Jason. I agree that his strength offensively is out at the 15 foot mark, where he's capable of shooting the jumper off of a kick out, or putting the ball on the floor when guarded by slower players and attacking the basket. I'm hopefull that he's worked on his post game, which can be a nice weapon as well. But for now, I'm happy with him out at the high post. His rebounding should be just as good, if not better. Defensively, according to synergy.com, Jason was the best isolation defender on the Kings last year. Where he suffered was on team defense, post defense, and on run outs to spot shooters. But all in all his defense improved. Hopefully it will improve more this season. It needs to if the Kings are going to move to a different level in the west.
Center: DeMarcus Cousins:
Another one that I struggled with. But I agree that the Kings need all the PR they can get, and another King making a run at ROY would help the cause at the box office. The only way Cousins has a chance at ROY is by starting. Whether thats fair or not, its probably the reality of the business. The reason I had Thompson starting over Landry was because of my decision to start Cousins. I just think Thompson doesn't demand the ball as much as Landry would. Not to mention that Landry also spends a lot of his time in the post. The last thing Cousins needs is more traffic in the post, making it easier to double team him. Thompson is also a better passer than Landry, making it easier for Cousins to pass out of the double and get the ball right back.
I have no doubt that we will see Dalembert and Cousins on the floor together. I also have no doubt that Dalembert will get his minutes, at least early in the season when Cousins isn't in NBA shape yet, or gets into foul trouble, as almost all rookie bigs do.
It leaves the Kings with a bench of Dalembert, Landry, Beno, Casspi and, at least for now Wright. Depending on how things work out, I wouldn't be surprised to see Jeter and Beno on the floor together at times. We'd be small, but very quick. There would be decent fire power in the second unit and decent rebounding with Dalembert and Casspi. I don't expect much rebounding improvement from Landry, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised..However I think the team rebounding should be one of the best in the NBA.
On paper the starting unit looks like a unit that will score and rebound well. Its the defensive side that needs to be looked at as the season progresses. I think it should be OK. Thompson can defend the bigger PF's in the league better than Landry can, and is a better help defender in the post than a man defender. Cousins may struggle for a while until he figures things out. He missed some switches in summer league, leaving Chism hanging out to dry a couple of times. Honest mistakes, but mistakes none the less.
I like this starting unit because it gives us great size and a lot of scoring and rebounding, which should make up for some defensive liabilities. It would be great to see the Kings get off to good starts in games this season, instead of always fighting their way out of a hole. I can't wait for camp to start..
Point Guard: Tyreke Evans
Not a difficult choice considering he was rookie of the year. I look for him to have an improved mid-range shot, which should add to his ability to run the pick and roll. I think its critical for Evans to add to his offensive game in order to move to the next level.
Shooting Guard: Francisco Garcia
I think Garcia is the perfect player to play straight man for Evans. Good spot up shooter. Decent to good defender and rebounds fairly well from the position. He can also handle the ball and bring the ball up the court, thereby taking the pressure off of Evans at times.
Small Forward: Donte Greene
I think Donte will be the player of choice. At least to begin the season. It will be up to him to hold onto the starting job. He's going to get a lot of competition from Casspi, who I think is a lot more talented than people are giving him credit for. Greene needs to cut back on his dribbling, and needs to recognize when to post up smaller players when the opportunity presents itself. He needs to improve him rebounding, but with so many good rebounders around him this year, I'll be surprised if he improves that much. I hope I'm wrong..
Power Forward: Jason Thompson
I struggled with this one. And it really came down to who I wanted to start at the center position, and who would compliment him the most. So I decided on Jason. I agree that his strength offensively is out at the 15 foot mark, where he's capable of shooting the jumper off of a kick out, or putting the ball on the floor when guarded by slower players and attacking the basket. I'm hopefull that he's worked on his post game, which can be a nice weapon as well. But for now, I'm happy with him out at the high post. His rebounding should be just as good, if not better. Defensively, according to synergy.com, Jason was the best isolation defender on the Kings last year. Where he suffered was on team defense, post defense, and on run outs to spot shooters. But all in all his defense improved. Hopefully it will improve more this season. It needs to if the Kings are going to move to a different level in the west.
Center: DeMarcus Cousins:
Another one that I struggled with. But I agree that the Kings need all the PR they can get, and another King making a run at ROY would help the cause at the box office. The only way Cousins has a chance at ROY is by starting. Whether thats fair or not, its probably the reality of the business. The reason I had Thompson starting over Landry was because of my decision to start Cousins. I just think Thompson doesn't demand the ball as much as Landry would. Not to mention that Landry also spends a lot of his time in the post. The last thing Cousins needs is more traffic in the post, making it easier to double team him. Thompson is also a better passer than Landry, making it easier for Cousins to pass out of the double and get the ball right back.
I have no doubt that we will see Dalembert and Cousins on the floor together. I also have no doubt that Dalembert will get his minutes, at least early in the season when Cousins isn't in NBA shape yet, or gets into foul trouble, as almost all rookie bigs do.
It leaves the Kings with a bench of Dalembert, Landry, Beno, Casspi and, at least for now Wright. Depending on how things work out, I wouldn't be surprised to see Jeter and Beno on the floor together at times. We'd be small, but very quick. There would be decent fire power in the second unit and decent rebounding with Dalembert and Casspi. I don't expect much rebounding improvement from Landry, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised..However I think the team rebounding should be one of the best in the NBA.
On paper the starting unit looks like a unit that will score and rebound well. Its the defensive side that needs to be looked at as the season progresses. I think it should be OK. Thompson can defend the bigger PF's in the league better than Landry can, and is a better help defender in the post than a man defender. Cousins may struggle for a while until he figures things out. He missed some switches in summer league, leaving Chism hanging out to dry a couple of times. Honest mistakes, but mistakes none the less.
I like this starting unit because it gives us great size and a lot of scoring and rebounding, which should make up for some defensive liabilities. It would be great to see the Kings get off to good starts in games this season, instead of always fighting their way out of a hole. I can't wait for camp to start..
Jason Thompson should not be starting for the Kings at this point, at least not next to Cousins. Dalembert for his defense, Landry for his offense, sure. Jason for his...not alongside Cousins. Its quite possibly the worst defensive pairing you could get out of our 5 frontcourt guys, and would be an absolute hackfest for the 3-4 minutes we could run them before they both had 3 fouls and we were in the penalty. In fact the apparent discovery that Cousins is a long way away from, if ever, being able to shut down the paint defensively has upped Daly and eventually Whiteside's importance tremendously.
Agreed!
I am not sure where the fascination with JT as a starter is coming from. There is no way he starts before Landry and Dalembert. Just NO chace. JT is a nice big to have off the bench or a role playing starter next to someone like say Dwight Howard but he is not a starter for this team. Landry is a much better player and will get the start ahead of JT at PF. Dalembert is a much better defensive presence than JT and he would get a start ahead of him as well.
There is just no need to start JT when you have those guys on the roster. JT is just a great energy big to have off the bench.
I am not sure where the fascination with JT as a starter is coming from. There is no way he starts before Landry and Dalembert. Just NO chace. JT is a nice big to have off the bench or a role playing starter next to someone like say Dwight Howard but he is not a starter for this team. Landry is a much better player and will get the start ahead of JT at PF. Dalembert is a much better defensive presence than JT and he would get a start ahead of him as well.
There is just no need to start JT when you have those guys on the roster. JT is just a great energy big to have off the bench.
Heres a question then; which player do you think would be most effective playing next to Cousins in the front court? I cant make a case for either Landry or Dalembert ahead of Thompson. I honestly dont see the problem defensively with having Cousins/Thompson on the floor. I can only really see a problem with Cousins/Landry. Cousins Landry seems like a terrible idea overall. This would mean that Dalembert is the first front court sub which would then allow Landry to come in for Thompson. Its definitely a nice problem to have.
First, as I mentioned, I believe that Westphal will start with a Dalembert/Cousins starting line-up, specifically due to the potential defensive issues which could arise in other big-man combinations, but I don't believe Dalembert is as good a fit as JT is next to Cousins.
I think that Cousins will be a starter beginning on Day 1 simply because it makes for getting people into the seats. So if Cousins is going to start, then it comes down to who is best to start along-side Cousins.
I also think that Cousins' ability on the defensive end is getting a bit maligned. In my opinion his worst game defensively came against Samardo Samuels of the Bulls. But you have to realize that Samuels is a 6'7 under-sized power-forward who is a lot quicker than Cousins. I watched the Bulls play a number of times in summer league, and this was by far Samuels best game. To me this game proved that Cousins should not be guarding PFs in the NBA, and instead should be guarding Centers.
The best 'big' man of the summer league other than Cousins was Derrick Caracter from the Lakers, and Cousins played him exceptionally well. Caracter had 10 points in 32 minutes of action, and finally picked up 4 more points in the last couple minutes of the game. Caracter plays more like a traditional Center and Cousins did well against him.
So Cousins' post man defense is going to be better against other team's bigs than anyone we had on the team last year.
It is going to take him a while to become a good weak-side defender, and that is obviously going to be a weakness of his starting out in the league. But if we hadn't picked up Dalembert I'd say that Cousins is the best man post-defender this team has had in years. Again, that isn't saying much as our man post-defense has been atrocious the last few years, but still, I wouldn't consider it a huge gaping hole in Cousins' game that people seem to want to make it.
So in looking at the starting unit, I think you need to really look at what all the bigs bring to the table as far as strengths and weaknesses, and then determine which big would work best along-side Cousins, if indeed Cousins is slotted in as a starter.
Landry is not a good fit next to Cousins. Cousins covers Landry's rebounding weaknesses, but Landry's primary talent is low-post scoring, and that should be Cousins' focus. I think that having Landry and Cousins on the floor at the same time wastes Landry's talents. Landry would be far, far better suited to come off the bench and bring that post scoring against the other team's bench OR start next to Dalembert to provide post scoring in that big man combination.
The team is going to be best served to have either one or the other on the floor at all times, but should limit the amount of time they are on the court together, so that we can maximize their post-offense.
Dalembert and Cousins are both Centers. Yes, I know that positions are meaningless if you can get two guys to play well together. But I wouldn't want to trot out that line-up and have one of them be forced to guard Amare, Jeff Green, Thad Young or any quicker 4, especially since Dalembert isn't the type of Center to be able to make a team pay on the offensive end for going small. Cousins proved in summer league that he won't be able to guard quick 4s as we all saw against Samardo Samuel. And we all know that having Dalembert having to run around trying to guard quick perimeter 4s is going to play to his weaknesses and not his strengths.
Cousins obviously covers Dalembert's offensive short-comings, and Dalembert would help cover for Cousin's shortcomings on the defensive end, and both of them would do really well on the boards. But I just don't like that line-up against quicker 4's, since we wouldn't be in a position to make them really pay all that much back the other way.
So to me, I think that JT is the best fit next to Cousins, if you accept the premise that Cousins will be in the starting line-up. Playing JT at the 4, allows Cousins to play at the 5 spot, and defend other Centers. And in my opinion, if Cousins is able to come into the season in game shape, he'll be a better post defender than anyone we had on the team last year, and certainly better than Hawes.
So if Cousins can play defense at the Center spot better than Hawes, then pairing him with JT will be an automatic upgrade to our front-court defense than what we saw last year. Now, last year was terrible, but it will still be an improvement. And JT will be able to guard quicker 4s better than either Dalembert or Cousins could.
Cousins and JT's rebounding will be outstanding, and JT can move out 15 feet to hit open jumpers while allowing Cousins to operate in the post.
Finally, I think that Dalembert and Landry are an absolute perfect pairing together. Dalembert provides the length, rebounding, and defense, while Landry provides the post scoring. So, if the Kings decide not to start Cousins, then I would start Dalembert and Landry together with JT and Cousins off the bench. But I really believe that the Kings will start Cousins to get people into the seats, and if they do, you have to look at who compliments who the best, and I think that JT is the best fit next to Cousins, with Landry and Dalembert being a perfect pairing coming off the bench.
Cousins defensive presence isnt the problem. Its his conditioning. Hes not ready to play 35 minutes a night on a 6 game in 7 day stretch like he did in summer league. Both Cousins and Thompson are good man defenders as is. To totally write off weakside defense with that duo is a reach. Each frontcourt combination has its pros and cons. If shotblocking is all youre concerned with then you start Dalembert. However, do you think your team is better off with Cousins on the floor or Dalembert? The logical pairing to me seems to be Dalmebert/Landry and Cousins/Thompson.The reaspns I wouldnt want to start Dalembert/Landry are because A: The main reason Dalembert/Landry are a fit is because Dalembert covers up for Landry being 6'8. B: After seeing what Cousins is capable of doing I dont see how he wouldnt start given the Kings current overall situation. Cousins is a centerpiece player, Dalembert is a role player (all be it a very good one).
If this is your position, then Cousins is barely going to play at all. Clearly, he can only play so many minutes alongside Dalembert and Whiteside isn't ready for many minutes. So that only leaves JT and Landry. Playing alongside JT is a way better defensive combo than with Landry.
If he can't play alongside JT, then what the hell's he going to do until Whiteside develops? Cousins isn't Mutumbo defensively, but line of thinking is getting ridiculous. He needs to be in better shape and any bigman coming into the league has a lot to learn about NBA defense, but at the very least Cousins is a better defensive center than anybody we had last year.
If he can't play alongside JT, then what the hell's he going to do until Whiteside develops? Cousins isn't Mutumbo defensively, but line of thinking is getting ridiculous. He needs to be in better shape and any bigman coming into the league has a lot to learn about NBA defense, but at the very least Cousins is a better defensive center than anybody we had last year.
What people consistently overrate and get tripped on is big man "man defense". That's NOT what you are primarily talking about when you are talking about a big man's defensive impact. SAR proved to be a reasonable man defender too. And you know what? So what. Irrelevant. Our team defense sucked, and he was a major part of it.
A big man's "man defense" is really no more important than the man defense of any other player on the floor. Maybe less important really than a strong man defender on the wings where there are more big scorers. The ENTIRE reason defense is such a key out of your bigs is not man defense but help defense. Shotblocking. Intimidation. Man defense is just that -- you slow down your man. Good on you. But a shotblocking presence slows down EVERYBODY'S man. The whole team gets a lift. It changes the entire way you play defense, allows all 5 players to crowd their men and funnel them to the shotblocking. There is a reason almost every elite team features players who can perform that function as starters, not backups. A big man who can't shotblock or defend the paint is a deeply flawed player. Putting two of them out there together is just an open invitation for teams to kill you inside. By sheer bulk Cousins may one day be a good man defender. But that wasn't what I was watching, and not primarily what I cared about. What I cared about is he is miles away form being an effective shotblocking presence. Virtually everytime he tried, he came up short and fouled somebody. And he didn't always try. He's an amazing talent in every other aspect, but if you want to be able to play that talent without his deficiency defining your team every bit as much as his talents, you need to cover for him by having somebody else on the court who can clog the lane and challenge penetration. And Jason Thompson cannot do that.
A big man's "man defense" is really no more important than the man defense of any other player on the floor. Maybe less important really than a strong man defender on the wings where there are more big scorers. The ENTIRE reason defense is such a key out of your bigs is not man defense but help defense. Shotblocking. Intimidation. Man defense is just that -- you slow down your man. Good on you. But a shotblocking presence slows down EVERYBODY'S man. The whole team gets a lift. It changes the entire way you play defense, allows all 5 players to crowd their men and funnel them to the shotblocking. There is a reason almost every elite team features players who can perform that function as starters, not backups. A big man who can't shotblock or defend the paint is a deeply flawed player. Putting two of them out there together is just an open invitation for teams to kill you inside. By sheer bulk Cousins may one day be a good man defender. But that wasn't what I was watching, and not primarily what I cared about. What I cared about is he is miles away form being an effective shotblocking presence. Virtually everytime he tried, he came up short and fouled somebody. And he didn't always try. He's an amazing talent in every other aspect, but if you want to be able to play that talent without his deficiency defining your team every bit as much as his talents, you need to cover for him by having somebody else on the court who can clog the lane and challenge penetration. And Jason Thompson cannot do that.
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This is an awfully big conclusion to reach after six games of garbage basketball, where he was tired by game three. I find it hard to believe based on his college play and physical attributes that he will be so hapless at that end of the floor. Let's see what he can do with proper conditioning and coaching in some regular games.
You were also watching him at less than his normal mobility most of the time. It's not like every big man goes to Summer League and has a block party. Favors only had 3 blocks all SL. Thabeet had 4 blocks his rookie SL. Cousins had 7.
Neither can our other big men besides Dalembert. So Cousins can't be on the floor without Dalembert? I wonder why we even bothered drafting the kid.
Neither can our other big men besides Dalembert. So Cousins can't be on the floor without Dalembert? I wonder why we even bothered drafting the kid.
As opposed to the superior conclusions drawn from....his college career?
Well hell, maybe we should have signed Morrison after all.
And as for his physical characteristics...which would those be? His closest physical comparison in the NBA might be Eddy Curry (back when he still pretended to care). He's a notorious "below the rim" player. There's nothing physical to make me doubt what i saw with my own eyes in the only professional competition we have yet seen him in. And its not about the raw number of blocks, or lack thereof. Its how a player approaches the defensive side of the ball. You can always tell a shotblocker even if he's not getting them. They watch the ball form the time it crosses halfcourt asnd are always trying to lurk back in the paint. DeMarcus wasn't thinking like that at all. You could almsot tell everytime he did decide to try for a block. See the wheels turning. He's welcome to change that in the future if he wants, but given that this discussion is about who should be starting next to this kid right NOW, while he's still a kid, what he may or may not be or who should be starting alongside him in 5 years isn't terribly relevant.
P.S. As an aside while the pairing seems too awkward to me to play big minutes the whole "if DeMarcus can only play with Dalembert he won't be able to get any minutes" argument is mysterious. Dalembert is a career long starter who routinely averages 25+min a season and has twice averaged 30+. Even if we lived in bizarroland where a player could never get ANY minutes with anybody but his starting partner/optimum pairing, DeMarcus coould still easily play half of every game.
Well hell, maybe we should have signed Morrison after all.
And as for his physical characteristics...which would those be? His closest physical comparison in the NBA might be Eddy Curry (back when he still pretended to care). He's a notorious "below the rim" player. There's nothing physical to make me doubt what i saw with my own eyes in the only professional competition we have yet seen him in. And its not about the raw number of blocks, or lack thereof. Its how a player approaches the defensive side of the ball. You can always tell a shotblocker even if he's not getting them. They watch the ball form the time it crosses halfcourt asnd are always trying to lurk back in the paint. DeMarcus wasn't thinking like that at all. You could almsot tell everytime he did decide to try for a block. See the wheels turning. He's welcome to change that in the future if he wants, but given that this discussion is about who should be starting next to this kid right NOW, while he's still a kid, what he may or may not be or who should be starting alongside him in 5 years isn't terribly relevant.
P.S. As an aside while the pairing seems too awkward to me to play big minutes the whole "if DeMarcus can only play with Dalembert he won't be able to get any minutes" argument is mysterious. Dalembert is a career long starter who routinely averages 25+min a season and has twice averaged 30+. Even if we lived in bizarroland where a player could never get ANY minutes with anybody but his starting partner/optimum pairing, DeMarcus coould still easily play half of every game.
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Yeah, unless all NBA drafting is done blind, it gives good indications, notwithstanding citing one of the biggest college-to-pro disparities ever.
He has a better standing reach than Curry and doesn't have his egg-shaped frame. He can rebound like Curry could never dream. He's no Eddy Curry. His standing reach is as good as anybody in the league othern than Yao.
It's not mysterious, you just stated the point. If the two are too awkward to play together for big minutes it's hard to consider that the optimal pairing. Even if Dalembert plays 30 minutes, Cousins is hardly going to share most of his court time. Whatever problems there might be in not having a great shotblocker on the floor, having two guys that can't keep up with most 4's is not a great solution.
He has a better standing reach than Curry and doesn't have his egg-shaped frame. He can rebound like Curry could never dream. He's no Eddy Curry. His standing reach is as good as anybody in the league othern than Yao.
It's not mysterious, you just stated the point. If the two are too awkward to play together for big minutes it's hard to consider that the optimal pairing. Even if Dalembert plays 30 minutes, Cousins is hardly going to share most of his court time. Whatever problems there might be in not having a great shotblocker on the floor, having two guys that can't keep up with most 4's is not a great solution.
This thread has swung way off topic, but I'd like to add my 0.02 on the big man combo's.
Who would I start? Dalembert and Cousins.
Before I tell yah why, I'll tell you what the other guys lack.
I love Landry. I love his attitude and his work ethic. It takes alot to make it like he did when your so undersized for your spot. Putting up 16 ppg as an undersized PF is impressive. He's much better off the bench though, were defense doesnt matter as much. He's just too small to start against most teams, so why start him at all? Im a lot less afraid of a bench big going off on him than a starting big. Bench guys are bench guys for a reason, so the height wont matter as much. His scoring off the bench with Beno would be awesome, one of the top bench units in the league.
I also really like JT, but like brick mentioned ... you traded your starting center of last season for a new center because you werent happy with your D in the middle. Can you honestly say Cousins and JT would be a defensive ( or even offensive ) improvement over Hawes ( or Landry) and JT?. Now I DO think JT and Cousins would be a offensive upgrade over last years pair, but not a huge one. And on D they would probly be just as bad. Im not saying Cousins D is on par with Hawes, but at this point in his career its not THAT much better.
I think you start Dalembert and Cousins because Cousins can be our 'not undersized Carl Landry' while Dally gives us a massive improvement on D. I would say Sammy and DMC would be just as good on offense as any combo of last years crew (Hawes/Landry/JT) but much better on D and rebounding.
Im not to worried about matchups either. You have the quck leaper in Dalembert and the solid big guy in Cousins. I think they would be fine together on defense. I know alot of folkes here are worried about them together on offense, because they both like to play down low, but im not worried about that either. I mean Sammy averaged 8 points a game last year, I wouldnt call him a go to guy in the post. I'd use him as the primary pick setter, have him crash the glass when the ball goes up, and run the floor for easy buckets in transition.
Too many times Cousins will set the pick and not roll. He likes to pop out and take that jumper. With Dally in there setting picks he's stuck in the post and thats not a bad thing.
Who would I start? Dalembert and Cousins.
Before I tell yah why, I'll tell you what the other guys lack.
I love Landry. I love his attitude and his work ethic. It takes alot to make it like he did when your so undersized for your spot. Putting up 16 ppg as an undersized PF is impressive. He's much better off the bench though, were defense doesnt matter as much. He's just too small to start against most teams, so why start him at all? Im a lot less afraid of a bench big going off on him than a starting big. Bench guys are bench guys for a reason, so the height wont matter as much. His scoring off the bench with Beno would be awesome, one of the top bench units in the league.
I also really like JT, but like brick mentioned ... you traded your starting center of last season for a new center because you werent happy with your D in the middle. Can you honestly say Cousins and JT would be a defensive ( or even offensive ) improvement over Hawes ( or Landry) and JT?. Now I DO think JT and Cousins would be a offensive upgrade over last years pair, but not a huge one. And on D they would probly be just as bad. Im not saying Cousins D is on par with Hawes, but at this point in his career its not THAT much better.
I think you start Dalembert and Cousins because Cousins can be our 'not undersized Carl Landry' while Dally gives us a massive improvement on D. I would say Sammy and DMC would be just as good on offense as any combo of last years crew (Hawes/Landry/JT) but much better on D and rebounding.
Im not to worried about matchups either. You have the quck leaper in Dalembert and the solid big guy in Cousins. I think they would be fine together on defense. I know alot of folkes here are worried about them together on offense, because they both like to play down low, but im not worried about that either. I mean Sammy averaged 8 points a game last year, I wouldnt call him a go to guy in the post. I'd use him as the primary pick setter, have him crash the glass when the ball goes up, and run the floor for easy buckets in transition.
Too many times Cousins will set the pick and not roll. He likes to pop out and take that jumper. With Dally in there setting picks he's stuck in the post and thats not a bad thing.
I haven't seen a ton of Bogut, but couldn't DMC be the same type of defensive player? Bogut is not a prototypical shotblocker and yet last season he put up 2.5 BPG. Now I'm not saying DMC will be a 2.5 BPG type player, but there's no reason with his reach that he can't be at least a pretty good shotblocker.
I think the most likely starting lineup for opening night will be Evans Garcia Casspi Landry Dalembert. It will be interesting to follow camp and the preseason games. No matter who starts I think we have two interesting and, hopefully, successful lineups, 10 players that have some talent.
Interesting to note that our players with the most career starts are Dalembert 491 Udrih 170 Thompson 114 Wright 96. These are followed by Garcia 76, Evans 72, and Greene, Casspi and Landry.
Interesting to note that our players with the most career starts are Dalembert 491 Udrih 170 Thompson 114 Wright 96. These are followed by Garcia 76, Evans 72, and Greene, Casspi and Landry.
I don't think you'll get much argument from anyone regarding the value that an interior shotblocking presence brings to a team.
I also agree that Cousins' first instinct on the defensive end is probably not to patrol the paint and challenge anyone who tries to get in. But I will say that we need to look at what we saw in summer league.
It looks as if Cousins will be at least a decent man defender starting out, and probably has the tools to be a very good man defender if he puts in the work. To me, that's more important at this stage than his willingness to patrol the paint. The reason being, we didn't have anyone last year who could contain Oden, Gasol, Howard, Nene, Lopez. So just the fact that Cousins just with his size, length, and good foot-work has a chance to guard players he'll have to face night-in and night-out is a huge relief for me. At least we know he's probably not going to be a liability at his own position.
Next, Cousins said it over and over again while in Vegas. "I have to work on my conditioning and my defense."
That is extremely positive for me to hear. I didn't hear him saying things like he had to work on his offense, or his shooting. He knows what he needs to work on, and since he seems to be a player who wants to be 'dominant' I believe him when he says that he's going to be working on conditioning and defense.
Mario said that both Cousins and Whiteside needed time to get the defense down. It's true that there were many times where they were not properly rotating or made defensive mistakes. I think that once Cousins gets more comfortable with the defensive schemes used by the team, it will probably free him up to experiment more on 'roaming in the paint'. In fact, Mario mentioned specifically that Cousins was staying too attached to his man, focusing only on the man defense, and that he needed to learn how to be a better team defender at the Center position.
One of the things I like is that he's aggressive. And because he's aggressive, I believe that will also begin to show on the defensive end. Hopefully once he gets his body in better shape he'll be able to better patrol the lane.
So the instincts to swat everything away might not be there, but that doesn't mean that once Cousins gets settled into the defensive scheme that he won't be able to work on that aspect of the game. Of course if it isn't instinctual, then he probably will never be elite in that aspect, but that doesn't mean that he can't eventually be a presence there.
In an ideal world Whiteside will completely live up to his potential and then you can start Whiteside and Cousins together and just kill other teams. In the meantime, I expect Cousins to provide at least decent post-man defense, and once he gets comfortable with the Kings defensive schemes, I also expect to see better team defense from him as well.
At this time I just don't see a Cousins/JT pairing as a completely inept defensive pairing. I think this pairing has a better chance of guarding a much larger range of other 4/5 pairings across the league, compared to a Cousins/Dalembert pairing.
For instance, a Cousins/Dalembert pairing would be fantastic against the Bulls frontline of Noah/Boozer. But would get crushed defensively if they had to guard Howard/Lewis.
I also agree that Cousins' first instinct on the defensive end is probably not to patrol the paint and challenge anyone who tries to get in. But I will say that we need to look at what we saw in summer league.
It looks as if Cousins will be at least a decent man defender starting out, and probably has the tools to be a very good man defender if he puts in the work. To me, that's more important at this stage than his willingness to patrol the paint. The reason being, we didn't have anyone last year who could contain Oden, Gasol, Howard, Nene, Lopez. So just the fact that Cousins just with his size, length, and good foot-work has a chance to guard players he'll have to face night-in and night-out is a huge relief for me. At least we know he's probably not going to be a liability at his own position.
Next, Cousins said it over and over again while in Vegas. "I have to work on my conditioning and my defense."
That is extremely positive for me to hear. I didn't hear him saying things like he had to work on his offense, or his shooting. He knows what he needs to work on, and since he seems to be a player who wants to be 'dominant' I believe him when he says that he's going to be working on conditioning and defense.
Mario said that both Cousins and Whiteside needed time to get the defense down. It's true that there were many times where they were not properly rotating or made defensive mistakes. I think that once Cousins gets more comfortable with the defensive schemes used by the team, it will probably free him up to experiment more on 'roaming in the paint'. In fact, Mario mentioned specifically that Cousins was staying too attached to his man, focusing only on the man defense, and that he needed to learn how to be a better team defender at the Center position.
One of the things I like is that he's aggressive. And because he's aggressive, I believe that will also begin to show on the defensive end. Hopefully once he gets his body in better shape he'll be able to better patrol the lane.
So the instincts to swat everything away might not be there, but that doesn't mean that once Cousins gets settled into the defensive scheme that he won't be able to work on that aspect of the game. Of course if it isn't instinctual, then he probably will never be elite in that aspect, but that doesn't mean that he can't eventually be a presence there.
In an ideal world Whiteside will completely live up to his potential and then you can start Whiteside and Cousins together and just kill other teams. In the meantime, I expect Cousins to provide at least decent post-man defense, and once he gets comfortable with the Kings defensive schemes, I also expect to see better team defense from him as well.
At this time I just don't see a Cousins/JT pairing as a completely inept defensive pairing. I think this pairing has a better chance of guarding a much larger range of other 4/5 pairings across the league, compared to a Cousins/Dalembert pairing.
For instance, a Cousins/Dalembert pairing would be fantastic against the Bulls frontline of Noah/Boozer. But would get crushed defensively if they had to guard Howard/Lewis.
Just a quick point here.
I don't think anyone is really concerned about a Cousins/Dalembert pairing on the offensive end. I think the assumption is that Cousins will work to do all the scoring and Sammy will get the garbage points around the rim when they come to him. It's the Cousins/Landry pairing which has concerns on the offensive end because Landry's best talent is post work, and we're going to want Cousins parked in the paint as much as possible.
The biggest concern with the Cousins/Dalembert pairing is guarding the 4 spot. They would match up well against a Boozer/Noah pairing, because Boozer isn't an 'out-quick-you' sort of player, and Noah isn't really an offensive juggernaut. They will have real problems matching up against quick 4's such as Amare, Jeff Green, Thad Young, Rashard Lewis, ect. We saw in summer league that Cousins was completely ineffective in guarding quick fours such as Samardo Samuels. So that means that Dalembert would have to guard the 4 spot, and if you look at his defensive abililties, they are almost completely neutralized if you take him away from the basket. Dalembert doesn't like playing away from the basket, and it makes sense, as forcing him to play defense away from the basket forces him to play to his weaknesses and not his strengths.
That's why playing JT/Landry with either Cousins or Dalembert makes more since, as JT/Landry at least can guard the 4 spot against almost all the 4's in the league.
With all that said, I actually expect to see a Cousins/Dalembert pairing as our starting front-court next season. I don't think it's the best fit, but I am almost expecting it.
I don't think anyone is really concerned about a Cousins/Dalembert pairing on the offensive end. I think the assumption is that Cousins will work to do all the scoring and Sammy will get the garbage points around the rim when they come to him. It's the Cousins/Landry pairing which has concerns on the offensive end because Landry's best talent is post work, and we're going to want Cousins parked in the paint as much as possible.
The biggest concern with the Cousins/Dalembert pairing is guarding the 4 spot. They would match up well against a Boozer/Noah pairing, because Boozer isn't an 'out-quick-you' sort of player, and Noah isn't really an offensive juggernaut. They will have real problems matching up against quick 4's such as Amare, Jeff Green, Thad Young, Rashard Lewis, ect. We saw in summer league that Cousins was completely ineffective in guarding quick fours such as Samardo Samuels. So that means that Dalembert would have to guard the 4 spot, and if you look at his defensive abililties, they are almost completely neutralized if you take him away from the basket. Dalembert doesn't like playing away from the basket, and it makes sense, as forcing him to play defense away from the basket forces him to play to his weaknesses and not his strengths.
That's why playing JT/Landry with either Cousins or Dalembert makes more since, as JT/Landry at least can guard the 4 spot against almost all the 4's in the league.
With all that said, I actually expect to see a Cousins/Dalembert pairing as our starting front-court next season. I don't think it's the best fit, but I am almost expecting it.
I think people are having quite a kneejerk reaction to Cousins last three games. Lets see? He's played six summer league games and now we know for a fact that he's a terrible defensive player for all time. What the hell are you people drinking? Can we wait till he's at least played some real games before we make judgements on how good a defensive player he'll be. My God, I just don't understand the mentality around here sometimes. Give me a fricking break...
This is not about his stats nor him appearing to be tired by the end of summer league. This is to do with his habits on the court. He just does not have that interior defensive presence. His positions for a weakside help is not good and has not been good in the first 3 games when he was on a roll and tearing up the Summer League.
This is not writing the kid off. He can definetly develop that side of his game and be a 2bpg player but as of right now he is not and thats not knocking the kid, its calling it as it currently is.
This is not writing the kid off. He can definetly develop that side of his game and be a 2bpg player but as of right now he is not and thats not knocking the kid, its calling it as it currently is.
Your not really serious, are you? What are you basing your opinion on? Six games in summer league? Cousins and Whiteside are just beginning to scratch the surface of how NBA defense works. They have little or no idea of the defensive scheme's of the Kings. In other words, its impossible to say they have undesirable habits, when they haven't played enough NBA games to even aquire a habit. Just putting Cousins on the floor with four other real NBA players will improve his defense. Team defense is all about trust. If your going to leave your man to help, you have to trust that someone is going to switch and pick up your man. If you get burn't a couple of times, you stop trusting and stay glued to your man. In summer league, when you playing with a bunch of guys that only have one thing in mind, and thats to impress some team with their talent, there's not a lot of trust going on.
Can we be realistic here. Cousins is 19 years old with one year of college under his belt. He's far from being in NBA shape, which really showed in the last three games. But to be fair, just about every player on the Kings was lacking energy after 6 games in 7 nights. He's just beginning to learn the Kings offense and defense. In college he was a good man defender. Some may not put much value on that, but I'll take good team defense over having one great goalie where the perimiter players can get lazy at times because they know he's there. Of course I'll take the great goalie and great team defense over everything, but most teams don't have that luxury. Some say that he's not a shotbocker, but tout that Favors will be. But in summer league Cousins blocked 7 shots if my memory is correct and Favors only blocked 2.
Now that doesn't mean Favors won't be a shotblocker and Cousins will. What it means is that you can't make judgements just off summer league because everything is somewhat skewed, because of unequal talent on each team. You have centers being guarded by PF's. You have shooting guards playing point guard. Its one thing to point out mistakes that a player makes. Its quite another to call those mistakes habits, and then pass judgement on that player based on those so called habits.
Now all of this isn't addressed to you, and I apologize if I'm coming on too strong. I'm just amazed at the conclusions that people will come to after a few worthless games. I shudder to think what might happen after a couple of pre-season games if the ball doesn't bounce the right way from the beginning. I'll close with this. Cousins is the real deal. If he gets into NBA shape, and I have no reason to believe he won't, and really dedicates himself as he says he's going to, then the Kings will have their second star, and second difference maker. He's a quick learner, and yes, he shows his frustration with himself when he makes a mistake. Yes, right now he thinks he's better than he is. He'll find out soon enough what it takes to play in the NBA. And yes, there will be a learning and growth period. In Cousins case I suspect it will be shorter than with most big men. He just seems to have a natural feel for the game.
Bottom line, is that its all up to him. And its up to the Kings to keep him on track.
Can we be realistic here. Cousins is 19 years old with one year of college under his belt. He's far from being in NBA shape, which really showed in the last three games. But to be fair, just about every player on the Kings was lacking energy after 6 games in 7 nights. He's just beginning to learn the Kings offense and defense. In college he was a good man defender. Some may not put much value on that, but I'll take good team defense over having one great goalie where the perimiter players can get lazy at times because they know he's there. Of course I'll take the great goalie and great team defense over everything, but most teams don't have that luxury. Some say that he's not a shotbocker, but tout that Favors will be. But in summer league Cousins blocked 7 shots if my memory is correct and Favors only blocked 2.
Now that doesn't mean Favors won't be a shotblocker and Cousins will. What it means is that you can't make judgements just off summer league because everything is somewhat skewed, because of unequal talent on each team. You have centers being guarded by PF's. You have shooting guards playing point guard. Its one thing to point out mistakes that a player makes. Its quite another to call those mistakes habits, and then pass judgement on that player based on those so called habits.
Now all of this isn't addressed to you, and I apologize if I'm coming on too strong. I'm just amazed at the conclusions that people will come to after a few worthless games. I shudder to think what might happen after a couple of pre-season games if the ball doesn't bounce the right way from the beginning. I'll close with this. Cousins is the real deal. If he gets into NBA shape, and I have no reason to believe he won't, and really dedicates himself as he says he's going to, then the Kings will have their second star, and second difference maker. He's a quick learner, and yes, he shows his frustration with himself when he makes a mistake. Yes, right now he thinks he's better than he is. He'll find out soon enough what it takes to play in the NBA. And yes, there will be a learning and growth period. In Cousins case I suspect it will be shorter than with most big men. He just seems to have a natural feel for the game.
Bottom line, is that its all up to him. And its up to the Kings to keep him on track.