NBA Lottery Thread

[twslam07]

Then maybe you'd like this mock?
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2021/6...021-instant-first-round-picks-detroit-pistons

I don't really know anything about J. Johnson except I made clear my thoughts on Dukies.

Fox-Haliburton-Moody would be a solid young core from 1-3. Think they complement each other well too.

 

[steelevt]

After the first tier of players are gone, is the next tier deep enough that trading the 9 for okc’s 16 and 18 might be worth it if our top couple guys in the second tier are already gone? I’d hate to pass on Mitchell or Bam for JJ and Giles again but if we drafted OG and John Collins or Jarrett Allen that year instead…

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I admittedly don't see the hype for J. Johnson. He just seems like he is worse than Barnes in almost every facet of the game besides maybe iso scoring?

Not just iso scoring, but he's a better scorer in general, better jump shooter, much better rebounder, and perhaps a bit surprisingly a better shotblocker. On top of that he's actually a pretty good passer, which would normally be a strength against players he'd be compared to but in this case isn't because Barnes is so good at passing. Barnes has him on defensive flexibility and tenaciousness, but Johnson's numbers compare pretty favorably. Barnes has the reputation as a Swiss Army Knife guy who can just plug in anywhere, and that's valuable, but I think he's currently pretty limited on the offensive end outside of his passing while Johnson is potentially a go-to offensive player who has a pretty well-rounded game as well. I can see teams going either way, but straight up dismissing Johnson seems like the wrong call.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

It's funny to notice the subtle impact the mocks already are having on me, because my first instinct would be to agree on being happy with Wagner or Williams, but also to wonder if taking them at 9 would be a "reach." Of course, the truth is they may be the right value at 9, especially if the notion that there's not a ton of difference between guys currently mocked around roughly 7-16 or so is true.

Someone is going to reach on Williams and I imagine Wagner winds up being someone's "steal".

 

[midtowner]

Seriously - if you really like a guy at 9 - take him at 9. The “value” differential doesn’t matter at all, unless someone makes an attractive trade offer to move up. Z Williams is not a “reach” if he turns into a baller.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

After the first tier of players are gone, is the next tier deep enough that trading the 9 for okc’s 16 and 18 might be worth it if our top couple guys in the second tier are already gone? I’d hate to pass on Mitchell or Bam for JJ and Giles again but if we drafted OG and John Collins or Jarrett Allen that year instead…

I think with 9 you are going to get a healthy choice whereas 16 you're crossing your fingers and hoping someone fell (most of the guys mentioned here are mocked by 13). The guy who likes Sengun might be happy dropping to 16 and adding the 18, I don't think I would be.

 

[twslam07]

Johnson can be worse than Barnes, but assuming Barnes is off the board, still the best pick for the Kings at 9, no? The question instead is whether he's worse than the other players available.

So I'm fairly convinced that Barnes is actually a better shooter than J. Johnson. That's not saying that Barnes is a good shooter. He's not, but I can overlook his shooting because of how good he is as a passer and a defender. Johnson is a step below on both passing and defense from my perspective.

So the way I look at is would I want a...

• Great/Elite Size/Length/Athleticism
• Great/Elite Passer
• Great/Elite Defender
• Poor/Below Average Shooter

...or a...

• Good/Great Size/Length/Athleticism
• Above Average Passer
• Above Average Defender
• Poor/Below Average Shooter

Shooting is one of the most important skills in today's game. If you are a poor shooter, you better be great/elite in other areas. I don't see Johnson as being great/elite in other areas which makes me think he'll be lackluster in the NBA.

But hey! I've been wrong before!

 

[midtowner]

Not disagreeing. At all. But if Johnson is better at getting to the rack on ISOs and finishing - that has a lot of value.

 

[twslam07]

Not just iso scoring, but he's a better scorer in general, better jump shooter, much better rebounder, and perhaps a bit surprisingly a better shotblocker. On top of that he's actually a pretty good passer, which would normally be a strength against players he'd be compared to but in this case isn't because Barnes is so good at passing. Barnes has him on defensive flexibility and tenaciousness, but Johnson's numbers compare pretty favorably. Barnes has the reputation as a Swiss Army Knife guy who can just plug in anywhere, and that's valuable, but I think he's currently pretty limited on the offensive end outside of his passing while Johnson is potentially a go-to offensive player who has a pretty well-rounded game as well. I can see teams going either way, but straight up dismissing Johnson seems like the wrong call.

Well I disagree that he'll be a better shooter than Barnes, and I believe we discussed this already in another thread (think that was you).

Also, I'm not too convinced on the rebounding & shot blocking points you make considering Barnes was asked to guard PGs and on the perimeter so much. If Barnes was asked to play the same defensive role as Johnson, would the numbers be different? I'd like to think so.

We can find common ground on the scoring assessment, but (like I mentioned above in another response) if you're a poor shooter (and not a C), you better be great/elite in other areas. Barnes has a path with his defense and passing. I don't feel as comfortable saying the same about Johnson which makes me think he may end up in 'no mans land' a bit.

 

[upinsmoke]

The issue is at 9, there’s probably no clear BPA unless Kuminga or Banes slip all the way there for some reason.

It's the FO job to determine that. The only issue being competency.

 

[dude12]

If we keep the pick, the guy had better be able to make an impact on D.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

If we keep the pick, the guy had better be able to make an impact on D.

This appears to be Monte's MO so far. We can't really afford another middling season treading water there will be some nice players here if we were already a playoff level team so I'm not opposed to shopping the pick either. Would likely be a mid-draft deal if anything is there.

 

[Jkbiker]

So if Mobley drops to 3
Cleveland Might consider a trade, since they will be going all in on Jarret Allen

What if Kings offered :

Buddy-SG, Bagley-PF #9 for Love-PF, Dean wade-PF and #3

Cleveland would like to dump Love's contract
Get a starting SG, young PF and a good SF at #9

Kings get LT solution to C, Buddy and Bagley dont want to be here

Kings:
Fox,Wright
Hali, TD
Barnes, Woodard,2nd rd pick
Love,Wade,Metu
Mobley, Jones

Cavs:
Sexton,Garland
Buddy,Windler,Dotson
Osman,Okoro, #9 pick
Bagley,Nance
Allen,Hartenstien

 

[Dime Dropper]

I'll take one Jalen Johnson please.

 

[Tetsujin]

So if Mobley drops to 3
Cleveland Might consider a trade, since they will be going all in on Jarret Allen

What if Kings offered :

Buddy-SG, Bagley-PF #9 for Love-PF, Dean wade-PF and #3

Cleveland would like to dump Love's contract
Get a starting SG, young PF and a good SF at #9

Kings get LT solution to C, Buddy and Bagley dont want to be here

Kings:
Fox,Wright
Hali, TD
Barnes, Woodard,2nd rd pick
Love,Wade,Metu
Mobley, Jones

Cavs:
Sexton,Garland
Buddy,Windler,Dotson
Osman,Okoro, #9 pick
Bagley,Nance
Allen,Hartenstien

Would be ebullient with joy if we could somehow sneak into the top three but at the same time I don’t see the Cavs falling over themselves to pair Buddy with Sexton to essentially recreate our backcourt from the Joerger years or passing on Mobley because they already have Allen, who is really good but also nowhere near the prospect that Mobley is.

Any defensive gains we’d make with Mobley would also be negated by us having to play Love at the 4 when defensively he’s almost exclusively a 5 at best.

 

[EIM86]

I want Barnes but assuming he’s gone Im crossing my fingers we get Moody.

 

[Tetsujin]

This appears to be Monte's MO so far. We can't really afford another middling season treading water there will be some nice players here if we were already a playoff level team so I'm not opposed to shopping the pick either. Would likely be a mid-draft deal if anything is there.

Pretty much every single guy we’ve picked up since Monte got here has been a better/more modern defender than the guy he’s replaced. Wright is able to guard some wings in addition to guards, Moe Harkless is an exponentially better defender than Bjelica even in his diminished form, Metu far more capable of moving laterally and vertically on defense than Giles, Haliburton already an inherently more rangy defensive talent than Bogi.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we went with Mitchell at 9

 

[Hoovtrain]

Thoughts on Giddey? His passing and ball handling for a guy that size is intriguing. Seems to finish well at the rim with both hands. But he’d also most likely have to play the 3 here and he has a slight build, so not sure that works. I think Johnson makes sense too

 

[iowamcnabb]

So if Mobley drops to 3
Cleveland Might consider a trade, since they will be going all in on Jarret Allen

What if Kings offered :

Buddy-SG, Bagley-PF #9 for Love-PF, Dean wade-PF and #3

Cleveland would like to dump Love's contract
Get a starting SG, young PF and a good SF at #9

Kings get LT solution to C, Buddy and Bagley dont want to be here

Kings:
Fox,Wright
Hali, TD
Barnes, Woodard,2nd rd pick
Love,Wade,Metu
Mobley, Jones

Cavs:
Sexton,Garland
Buddy,Windler,Dotson
Osman,Okoro, #9 pick
Bagley,Nance
Allen,Hartenstien

if Mobley is on the board when the Cavs pick they will probably take him and sign and trade Allen.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

And we are talking about draft picks. I assumed people would realize I meant Scottie Barnes since he has been mentioned multiple times, and is high on most people's draft picks at #9. So I'm sorry for the confusion.

My bad. Now that you’ve explained, I feel I should have recognized. But for whatever reasons I locked in on our own Barnes.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Thoughts on Giddey? His passing and ball handling for a guy that size is intriguing. Seems to finish well at the rim with both hands. But he’d also most likely have to play the 3 here and he has a slight build, so not sure that works. I think Johnson makes sense too

I just can’t get onboard with Giddey. The only thing he does well is pass and rebound. He would likely be the third facilitator here so I’m not sure it’s the best place to maximize his skill set.

 

[Tetsujin]

if Mobley is on the board when the Cavs pick they will probably take him and sign and trade Allen.

I would also be fine with getting in on that

 

[SLAB]

I don’t even care about the lottery pick, I’m checked out of caring. Give me Bagley’s brother in the second for maximum lols though.

 

[The Effort Police]

I don’t even care about the lottery pick, I’m checked out of caring. Give me Bagley’s brother in the second for maximum lols though.

Trade Bagley for a couple seconds and then pick his brother with one of those seconds.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don’t even care about the lottery pick, I’m checked out of caring. Give me Bagley’s brother in the second for maximum lols though.

Does he have a third brother? Is this a Ball family thing where the third is going to be the best? I swear I remember hearing he had a brother that was a #1 overall contender. Or has that just fallen off a cliff?

 

[iowamcnabb]

I would also be fine with getting in on that

Bagley and Buddy for Allen?

Fox
Hali
Moody
Barnes
Allen

3 above average shooters, 2 plus defenders, one average and 2 guys who could be plus defenders (Fox/Hali)

 

[Pacboy]

Does he have a third brother? Is this a Ball family thing where the third is going to be the best? I swear I remember hearing he had a brother that was a #1 overall contender. Or has that just fallen off a cliff?

The third brother is in elementary school

 

[LPKingsFan]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we went with Mitchell at 9

That’s who Jason Jones took for the Kings in the beat writer mock draft lottery at the Athletic today, over the likes of Kispert, Jalen Johnson, Giddey, Keon Johnson, and Moody. He also suggests the Kings “could easily go with a bigger wing” instead, but also says not to be surprised if they trade the pick to help with a playoff push.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The third brother is in elementary school

so is this one SLAB is projecting in round 2 the one that was supposed to be even better than Marvin a few years ago?

 

[The Effort Police]

Pretty much every single guy we’ve picked up since Monte got here has been a better/more modern defender than the guy he’s replaced. Wright is able to guard some wings in addition to guards, Moe Harkless is an exponentially better defender than Bjelica even in his diminished form, Metu far more capable of moving laterally and vertically on defense than Giles, Haliburton already an inherently more rangy defensive talent than Bogi.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we went with Mitchell at 9

Mitchell is such a "We wanna make a run at the 8th 10th seed playin next year" pick...

So is Franz Wagner mind you.