George Karl's Wild Ride

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gunks

Hall of Famer
I definitely prefer Karl "figuring it out" and slowing it down over firing him now.

As awesome as getting Thibs sounds, there is no guarantee.

Although...

He probably needs to go this summer, I don't think the Karl/Cuz dynamic is going to change for the better, but who knows? We start winning and it might.

Detroit is a good team, and we handled them. I'm gonna allow myself a wee bit of optimism moving forward. If we get a few

Hopefully we're gonna ditch PACE as our identity and move forward with the smashmouth.

If Vivek wants jazz, he can listen to his iPod during the games.
 
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Does anyone feel that the NBA was really trying to screw the Kings by giving them just about the worst 8 games to start the season?

Only one of the teams the Kings played (the Lakers) would be considered a bad team.

ALL 7 other teams were in the playoffs or just missed them last year.

If we can start wining some games now, we will be okay.
Under normal sane circumstances no. But when I look at the national narrative if someone even has a bad bowel movement in town and it must mean something then it sort of makes me wonder.
 
Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 4m4 minutes ago
I see that we have all been praising Rondo and Boogie etc and they deserve it. But how bout props to Karl and co. Hasn't been easy.
Coach Karl definitely deserves some love from the team and the fans.

He is learning quickly that DMC runs this place and he needs to play the way your franchise player needs to play, in order for everyone to succeed.

And to his credit, Karl has adjusted his game plan accordingly and the Kings have turned it around. As long as Coach Karl stays the course, I think we will be fighting for the #7-8 playoffs spots this year.

P.S. Wasn't it Carmichael Dave who predicted Karl would be fired after the Pistons game, ala Mike Malone, just last week. :rolleyes:
 
No, it actually wasn't. Show me where por favor :rolleyes:
Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave
Can report there is concern internally over the style and effectiveness of George Karl. Very important 48 hours. Nothing off the table.


Howard Nevens IV @HowardNevensIV
@CarmichaelDave are u concerned with the relationship between Karl and Cousins?

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave
Nov 11
No. I really don't think it will be an issue much longer.


Also, on November 9th there was also another tweet regarding "Who are the Kings were playing next?" The Pistons.

Thus implying that the same fate for George Karl, as Coach Malone, as he would be fired after the Pistons game on November 11th.
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave
Can report there is concern internally over the style and effectiveness of George Karl. Very important 48 hours. Nothing off the table.


Howard Nevens IV @HowardNevensIV
@CarmichaelDave are u concerned with the relationship between Karl and Cousins?
Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave Nov 11
No. I really don't think it will be an issue much longer.


Also, on November 9th there was also another tweet regarding "who are the Kings were playing next?" The Pistons.

Thus implying that the same fate for George Karl, as Coach Malone, as he would be fired after the Pistons game on November 11th.
You chose to take something from his tweets that he didn't specifically say. He didn't predict Karl would be fired.
 
I guess it's fun reading tea leaves but for the Kings, a waste of time. If Karl can't get Cuz and team to play better ball by season's end then let's revisit the subject.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
I guess it's fun reading tea leaves but for the Kings, a waste of time. If Karl can't get Cuz and team to play better ball by season's end then let's revisit the subject.
But reading tea leaves and making assumptions from body language is what we do - especially when the team isn't winning. When we win, you notice a definite change of topics. :)

What is being a Kings fan without drama? ;) Maybe someday not too far down the road we'll find out.
 
Ah, but to further pick the nit, an implication is not a prediction. ;)
True.

Look, I respect Carmichael Dave and I'm sure George Karl was in trouble at the time.

But, I think Vlade is a straight shooter and if he said that Karl is safe for this season, I think he will remain the Kings coach, unless the Kings go on a huge losing skid (i.e. 7-9 straight loses) and Vlade has no choice but to drop the hammer. :cool:
 
Nice research and quoting, ockingsfan.

carmichaeldave certainly did insinuate/implicate/suggest/hint that Karl was in jeopardy of losing his job recently.

Acting like he didn't is pure disingenuousness, or trying to dodge something that shouldn't be dodged.
Just admit it (and hopefully stand by your sources even when they challenge commonly-held beliefs) and move on.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
Aside:

ESPN announcers listed Malone's Nuggets as one of the league's surprise teams with great coaching last night during the Warriors game.

Maybe one day I'll be able to forgive Vivek for being an easily led dipshot.... I still kinda hope a bus runs over PDA though.
 
But reading tea leaves and making assumptions from body language is what we do - especially when the team isn't winning. When we win, you notice a definite change of topics. :)

What is being a Kings fan without drama? ;) Maybe someday not too far down the road we'll find out.
You sum it up so well haha
 
True.

Look, I respect Carmichael Dave ..
Well, that much is clear.

I don't see why some people want to bust the guy's balls or call him out. Just because you're better looking (most likely) and less famous and are besties with fewer amazon goddesses - no reason to be jealous and snipe at the guy. He brings a lot to the table.

My wife calls him "trailer man" - it was so funny we're at the game and she said "there's the trailer man". I'm all "wtf do you mean trailer man - who are you talking about?". She said, "you know the guy who drove the trailer to all the NBA cities". ha ha ha Trailer Man.

Thanks for contributing to this board and twitter Dave - you make both places more fun.
 
.

Maybe one day I'll be able to forgive Vivek for being an easily led dipshot.... I still kinda hope a bus runs over PDA though.
That can't be gauged until our next coach. Karl was always a stop gap of sorts and I highly doubt he makes it to the end of his contract. Malone is the type who'd have grown with this team year after year as he'll probably do in Den.

So it's not just comparing situations now but also considering 2, 3 and 4 years from now. Someone said earlier, "worst coach firing in pro sports history" or something of that nature. I thought that was true at the time. McHale just got canned, it was pretty surprising but pales in comparison to the Malone firing. Never seen anything like it when looking at the entire picture. Not anything at all.

An example of what makes Malone who he is: On team flights he's been sitting with Mudiay and going over film 1 on 1 with him, helping him better understand both defensive issues and where/when his shots should come, while repeatedly backing his rookie PG thru the media. Just really comes across as the type who genuinely cares about his players, fights for them, is who you want leading and developing a young team. It's the whole "coach fights for us, we'll fight for coach" dynamic. I don't see that here with us.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
That can't be gauged until our next coach. Karl was always a stop gap of sorts and I highly doubt he makes it to the end of his contract. Malone is the type who'd have grown with this team year after year as he'll probably do in Den.

So it's not just comparing situations now but also considering 2, 3 and 4 years from now. Someone said earlier, "worst coach firing in pro sports history" or something of that nature. I thought that was true at the time. McHale just got canned, it was pretty surprising but pales in comparison to the Malone firing. Never seen anything like it when looking at the entire picture. Not anything at all.

An example of what makes Malone who he is: On team flights he's been sitting with Mudiay and going over film 1 on 1 with him, helping him better understand both defensive issues and where/when his shots should come, while repeatedly backing his rookie PG thru the media. Just really comes across as the type who genuinely cares about his players, fights for them, is who you want leading and developing a young team. It's the whole "coach fights for us, we'll fight for coach" dynamic. I don't see that here with us.
I agree with just about everything you said, as a matter of fact, I guess I agree with all of it. All I would do is add some window dressing to what you said. Unfortunately, Karl is perceived as a stop gap coach. He's also a coach that comes with a reputation that poisoned the water before his arrival. Not fair, but that's the reality of life. If you hire Karl, you hope that his reputation for winning outweighs any negatives. So far, it appears that hasn't happened. Like you, I was shocked when Malone was fired, however, I wasn't ready to anoint him coach of the year just yet. Defensively he had the team playing very well, but his offense was a little to reliant on isolation basketball. It was just a matter of time before the league adjusted, and made life more difficult for the Kings.

What I was looking forward to, was how Malone adjusted. Sadly, we never got that chance. There's nothing worse than being robbed of the opportunity to see how something would have ended. Well, there are things that are worse, but you know what I mean. Ironically, if I had to come up with another shocking firing of a head coach, it would be Karl being fired in Denver after leading a team no one thought would make the playoffs to flirting with a championship. I doubt that Karl lasts through the next off season, and that's too bad. I would have liked to see how things played out if everyone bought in. It's obvious that Cousins, rightly or wrongly, hasn't, and I'm sure he has his following. A team divided will fall. And it appears to be divided. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

When Karl asked to suspend Cousins for his outburst, and Vlade said no, that put Karl in an untenable position. If he can't discipline his players, then his authority is seriously undermined. If there is no penalty for bad behavior, then bad behavior will continue. The fault is shared by both sides. I think Cousins has legitimate gripes, but I think Karl has the right as head coach to expect his players to execute his system. As was stated in Cool Hand Luke, "What we have here, is a failure to communicate." I see no other resolution to this problem, than one of them has to go. As to who, well that's a no brainer, unless Cleveland offers Lebron for Cousins. Karl is the odd man out. Which probably means another wasted season.

I hope I'm wrong about all this. Cousins has two more years on his contract after this season. But make no mistake, if were not winning by the time he enters his last year, I seriously doubt he'll be willing to sign another extension. So, the question is, do the Kings wait that long? I'm not saying this because I want Cousins traded. Quite the contrary. I'm trying to look at it from a logical point of view. If your not winning, and you let it go until his final year, you've lost any leverage in a trade you would have right now, or next year. Meaning, if a team trades for Cuz now, it knows it has him for two more years. That's valuable! If he's in his final year, and you have no guarantee he'll resign with you if you trade for him, your less likely to give up as much for him, as you are if you have him under contract for two more years.

What I'm trying to do is look at the big picture, and that picture needs to start looking like a successful team. If not, I fear the future is going to look bleak. Vlade and the Kings brain trust is betting on immediate success. So far, that hasn't happened. It's still early, and winning cures all. But the hole is getting deeper, and soon. Well, I think you know... There, I hope I've brightened your day a bit.
 
Nice research and quoting, ockingsfan.

carmichaeldave certainly did insinuate/implicate/suggest/hint that Karl was in jeopardy of losing his job recently.

Acting like he didn't is pure disingenuousness, or trying to dodge something that shouldn't be dodged.
Just admit it (and hopefully stand by your sources even when they challenge commonly-held beliefs) and move on.

I've never backed off of anything. And there is a massive difference between "Karl is gone" and "there's trouble brewing". I'm sorry if you can't see that.

And again, I have a pretty decent track record. My Twitter account isn't a paid subscription, take what you wish. Just the same, when I'm right I'm also not the guy that goes back and quotes what I said and does the "as I reported earlier blah blah" thing.

I don't really pay attention to much because it comes with the territory, but when someone puts words in my mouth I tend to want to clarify. Notice I wasn't freaking out or trying to throw bombs, just simply clarifying.
 
Nice research and quoting, ockingsfan.

carmichaeldave certainly did insinuate/implicate/suggest/hint that Karl was in jeopardy of losing his job recently.

Acting like he didn't is pure disingenuousness, or trying to dodge something that shouldn't be dodged.
Just admit it (and hopefully stand by your sources even when they challenge commonly-held beliefs) and move on.
And adding to the reasons why I don't take too much to heart, I seem to remember you usually taking issues with me and things I say. Your right completely, but it factors in for me that I'm not going to get any benefits of any doubts from you.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
And adding to the reasons why I don't take too much to heart, I seem to remember you usually taking issues with me and things I say. Your right completely, but it factors in for me that I'm not going to get any benefits of any doubts from you.
Pay no attention to wanna be's. Your an example of what hard work and perseverance can accomplish. I wonder how many of today's posters know your story, and how you got your radio name. In this age of crazy political correctness, people take everything we say, and make implications or suggestions into facts. I think anyyone with reader comprehension skills knew exactly what your were saying. Only someone with an agenda would make it into something else.
 
But reading tea leaves and making assumptions from body language is what we do - especially when the team isn't winning. When we win, you notice a definite change of topics. :)

What is being a Kings fan without drama? ;) Maybe someday not too far down the road we'll find out.
I ndersand and I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from. Comments like mine, in the vein you are speaking in are as normal and predictable as the ther "reading f tea leaves". As I read these (and there are lots and lots f them) wild-*** comments! opinions and beliefs! I sometimes weaken and post m own. As you will notice I haven't given up on reading and participating. There are few of these posters ncluding the nuts that I have a dislike for.

I like basketball. The Kings play basketball. I root for the Kings. I'm not capable f making better decisions than the GE folks that run the place just as I can't play basketball better than the players. So here I sit. If I had a better editor this message could have been cut down to "Thais for your comments."
 
Pay no attention to wanna be's. Your an example of what hard work and perseverance can accomplish. I wonder how many of today's posters know your story, and how you got your radio name. In this age of crazy political correctness, people take everything we say, and make implications or suggestions into facts. I think anyyone with reader comprehension skills knew exactly what your were saying. Only someone with an agenda would make it into something else.

That's nice of you to say. I certainly don't want to attack or setup any attacks on people that think I'm a schmuck. It's your right to think I'm a doofus or that which I say drips in doofosity. Ask my wife, who is fond of saying "WHY DONT YOU LEAVE FOR ANOTHER MONTH TRAILER MAN"
 
That's nice of you to say. I certainly don't want to attack or setup any attacks on people that think I'm a schmuck. It's your right to think I'm a doofus or that which I say drips in doofosity. Ask my wife, who is fond of saying "WHY DONT YOU LEAVE FOR ANOTHER MONTH TRAILER MAN"
I don't think you're a schmuck, but you definitely leave yourself open to criticism with cryptic tweets, in which you strongly imply something but don't outright say it, and thus can go back and defend your position regardless of the outcome. I'm not talking about the Karl thing, this is a general theme. That's your style, which is fine. You also can't criticise people who point this out and then say "Well, technically I didn't actually say that." We're all adults here and can decipher strong implications.

I'm not saying you should outright post whatever information you know. It's obvious that some very likely events [at the time] end up not coming to fruition. Nobody wants to end up with egg on their face.

Personally I would prefer the style of someone who simply posts facts. That's not your job however, and I acknowledge that. You're not in an easy position, given that you're a radio presenter and also try to provide fellow fans with extra info.. The cryptic tweets do rub me the wrong way though. Understand your position, but it's not something I particularly want to read. As you said, nobody is forced to read your tweets. You are one of the good guys though and we're all on the same side, so we have that in common.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
That's nice of you to say. I certainly don't want to attack or setup any attacks on people that think I'm a schmuck. It's your right to think I'm a doofus or that which I say drips in doofosity. Ask my wife, who is fond of saying "WHY DONT YOU LEAVE FOR ANOTHER MONTH TRAILER MAN"
Well, I didn't say your wern't a doofus or a schmuck, just that I admired your tenacity and accomplishments.:rolleyes: My wife says that to me all the time.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I don't think you're a schmuck, but you definitely leave yourself open to criticism with cryptic tweets, in which you strongly imply something but don't outright say it, and thus can go back and defend your position regardless of the outcome. I'm not talking about the Karl thing, this is a general theme. That's your style, which is fine. You also can't criticise people who point this out and then say "Well, technically I didn't actually say that." We're all adults here and can decipher strong implications.

I'm not saying you should outright post whatever information you know. It's obvious that some very likely events [at the time] end up not coming to fruition. Nobody wants to end up with egg on their face.

Personally I would prefer the style of someone who simply posts facts. That's not your job however, and I acknowledge that. You're not in an easy position, given that you're a radio presenter and also try to provide fellow fans with extra info.. The cryptic tweets do rub me the wrong way though. Understand your position, but it's not something I give weight to.
I guess it comes down to individual tastes. Personally, I like when Dave drops clues for us to try and figure out. I mean, the world doesn't come to an end if I'm wrong about my perception. I think I understand where he's coming from to some extent. There was a time when I knew someone inside the Kings organization, and I knew things, or at least knew within a high percentage, things that were going to happen. I'm talking about draft picks and trades mostly. So I had to think carefully about how to impart that info on the forum without getting my source in trouble. I think there are times that Dave knows for a fact what's going on, but he can't come right out and say so. It can be a fine line to walk. By the way, my source got swept out with the Maloof's, so now I'm just as ignorant as everyone else.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I ndersand and I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from. Comments like mine, in the vein you are speaking in are as normal and predictable as the ther "reading f tea leaves". As I read these (and there are lots and lots f them) wild-*** comments! opinions and beliefs! I sometimes weaken and post m own. As you will notice I haven't given up on reading and participating. There are few of these posters ncluding the nuts that I have a dislike for.

I like basketball. The Kings play basketball. I root for the Kings. I'm not capable f making better decisions than the GE folks that run the place just as I can't play basketball better than the players. So here I sit. If I had a better editor this message could have been cut down to "Thais for your comments."
They say that brevity is the soul of wit. But then, you weren't trying to be witty, so your fine. Far be it for me to complain about the length of anyone's posts.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
True.

Look, I respect Carmichael Dave and I'm sure George Karl was in trouble at the time.

But, I think Vlade is a straight shooter and if he said that Karl is safe for this season, I think he will remain the Kings coach, unless the Kings go on a huge losing skid (i.e. 7-9 straight loses) and Vlade has no choice but to drop the hammer. :cool:
I agree with everything you've said here.

Dave isn't always speaking as some insider with vast amounts of secret knowledge the rest of us aren't privy to. Sometimes his fan roots show through and he makes a comment based on what he thinks might happen.

I have the utmost faith in Vlade's ability to calm the waters if it's at all possible. I'm keeping my fingers crossed because the one thing I'm sure of is another coaching change is in no one's best interest at this point.

:)